Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Cranstonvm on <04-30-13/1552:49>
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I am curious, how many people were sacrificed to do how much damage and whether it would increase with more magic in the world?
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Hundreds died. That's about all we know.
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Indeed, not much is known about the Ghost Dance, other than the fact that performing a massive blood ritual on a power site can do big things. Not the least of the mysteries is where Daniel Howling Coyote got the knowledge for the Dance from. Even the dragons and immortal elves aren't certain (or they aren't even telling EACHOTHER). Though after reading Worlds Without End, I wonder if perhaps Thaiss(sp?), Aina's son, taught him. Apparently, he tried to do something like that before, but it didn't work because the mana levels were too low.
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Indeed, not much is known about the Ghost Dance, other than the fact that performing a massive blood ritual on a power site can do big things. Not the least of the mysteries is where Daniel Howling Coyote got the knowledge for the Dance from. Even the dragons and immortal elves aren't certain (or they aren't even telling EACHOTHER). Though after reading Worlds Without End, I wonder if perhaps Thaiss(sp?), Aina's son, taught him. Apparently, he tried to do something like that before, but it didn't work because the mana levels were too low.
Hmm...
Just think of what Aztechnology could do if they had that many of their blood mages sacrifice themselves in a ritual like that on such a site.
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Indeed, not much is known about the Ghost Dance, other than the fact that performing a massive blood ritual on a power site can do big things. Not the least of the mysteries is where Daniel Howling Coyote got the knowledge for the Dance from. Even the dragons and immortal elves aren't certain (or they aren't even telling EACHOTHER). Though after reading Worlds Without End, I wonder if perhaps Thaiss(sp?), Aina's son, taught him. Apparently, he tried to do something like that before, but it didn't work because the mana levels were too low.
Hmm...
Just think of what Aztechnology could do if they had that many of their blood mages sacrifice themselves in a ritual like that on such a site.
Jam coming out of the walls worldwide.
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Hmm...
Just think of what Aztechnology could do if they had that many of their blood mages sacrifice themselves in a ritual like that on such a site.
That's basically what Darke was doing, only using hundreds (thousands?) of mundane and magical victims instead of self-sacrifice.
Oh. Why did I even think about that?
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Darke also used the Blood Mage Gestalt to link all or most of the major teocali in the entire country of Aztlan to the main teocali in Tenochtitlan. Basically converting the entire network into one giant power site.
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The last book of the Secrets of Power trilogy, Find Your Own Truth by Robert Charrette, deals quite a bit with the Ghost Dance ritual run by Sam Verner (Twist) after having been taught it by Howling Coyote and Dog (the totem). If memory serves, Verner's Ghost Dance is smaller than the original and it's made pretty clear that even this one sees deaths in the dozens.
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Indeed, not much is known about the Ghost Dance, other than the fact that performing a massive blood ritual on a power site can do big things. Not the least of the mysteries is where Daniel Howling Coyote got the knowledge for the Dance from. Even the dragons and immortal elves aren't certain (or they aren't even telling EACHOTHER). Though after reading Worlds Without End, I wonder if perhaps Thaiss(sp?), Aina's son, taught him. Apparently, he tried to do something like that before, but it didn't work because the mana levels were too low.
Hmm...
Just think of what Aztechnology could do if they had that many of their blood mages sacrifice themselves in a ritual like that on such a site.
Jam coming out of the walls worldwide.
The walls will ooze green slime Jam!? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdxm3nMKjzU)
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Jam coming out of the walls worldwide.
Slurpees, since Aztechnology owns all the Stuffer Shacks.
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What is the stuffer shack brand of slurpee? Or, do they actually own that trademark? I'd be interested in an exhaustive list of Aztec products.
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
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Dragerous, this can only end well.
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Make 'em look like the ones in those Old St. George Pictures.
(http://www.geraldineclarkhellery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Stgeorge-dragon-by-Gustave-Moreau.jpg)
Just don't forget they only LOOK small and pathetic. 8)
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Yes, because the dragons aren't on enough of a warpath already.
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Yes, because the dragons aren't on enough of a warpath already.
Bah! You worry too much. :P
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Yes, because the dragons aren't on enough of a warpath already.
I'm not sure a one-year deadline on any violence towards metahumanity counts as a warpath.
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Yes, because the dragons aren't on enough of a warpath already.
I'm not sure a one-year deadline on any violence towards metahumanity counts as a warpath.
Because that certainly won't get extended when the dragons learn some fool is trying to infect them with HMHVV. Not at all. ::)
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Immunity to STDs! They've had it too good for too long.
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... so you want to give a nigh-immortal mystic powerhouse another means of gaining vast mystic and material wealth?
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... so you want to give a nigh-immortal mystic powerhouse another means of gaining vast mystic and material wealth?
Hey, he never said it was a good idea!
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How exactly would making them near mindless, light sensitive, cannibals help them? Other than the boost to their strength and resilience.
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How exactly would making them near mindless, light sensitive, cannibals help them? Other than the boost to their strength and resilience.
Not all Ghouls are near mindless.
Also, they might want to do something like make the Sun go away to get rid of the light sensitivity thing. ;D
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I was thinking more along the lines of Loup Garous, or goblins. Loup Garous have a serious time of the month though, how bad would a crazed PMSing dragon be?
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I was thinking more along the lines of Loup Garous, or goblins. Loup Garous have a serious time of the month though, how bad would a crazed PMSing dragon be?
You ask Orange Queen.
I'll be over here when you do.
Far, far away.
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I can't help but note how every other post CanRay makes would work well for a sheep joke.
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Did the sheep ask Orange Queen?
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I can't help but note how every other post CanRay makes would work well for a sheep joke.
He can't help pestering sheep. It's how he was raised.
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I can't help but note how every other post CanRay makes would work well for a sheep joke.
He can't help pestering sheep. It's how he was raised.
It's all about pulling the wool over our eyes . . .
. . . and then being sheepish about it. :o ::)
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He can't help pestering sheep. It's how he was raised.
I'm Canadian, not Welsh!
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He can't help pestering sheep. It's how he was raised.
I'm Canadian, not Welsh!
A moose is just an over-large sheep.
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You mean Mongo?
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A moose is just an over-large sheep.
A moose is more likely to mate with a compact car.
Also, the old VW Bug's horn sounded enough like a mating call to a Moose that...
Well, you get the idea.
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My sister was bitten by a moose once.
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My sister was bitten by a moose once.
Ooh, some Monty Python. Nice!
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It was set up so well I'm surprised I was the one to say it.
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Indeed, not much is known about the Ghost Dance, other than the fact that performing a massive blood ritual on a power site can do big things. Not the least of the mysteries is where Daniel Howling Coyote got the knowledge for the Dance from. Even the dragons and immortal elves aren't certain (or they aren't even telling EACHOTHER). Though after reading Worlds Without End, I wonder if perhaps Thaiss(sp?), Aina's son, taught him. Apparently, he tried to do something like that before, but it didn't work because the mana levels were too low.
Hmm...
Just think of what Aztechnology could do if they had that many of their blood mages sacrifice themselves in a ritual like that on such a site.
I dont think they would need that number. Remember, it was early awakening or mostly pre-awakening rite, and power levels and skill of participants was hardly the same as for todays mages...
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Here's the kicker, though. If ya look at the Shadowrun time-line; the events before 2017 were mainly mundane and the appearance of the Awakening were small and mainly limited. But after the Great Ghost Dance, the Awakening sped up dramatically and events followed as recorded. The G.G.D. ritual was a powerful blood-magic ritual. So who or what taught Howling Coyote to successfully pull off a magic ceremony with a practically zero background count of mana? I've heard rumors that under FASA, the 6th-World was jump-started 200 years earlier then the 5,000 year span suggests. So who or what wanted magic to return early to the planet? Ahh, ya gotta love the lore lode. ;)
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... yeah, well, you can't believe every rumor you hear. If you look at the Shadowrun timeline, before the 'official' Awakening you had 'spike babies' - the century ferret, humanoid spike babies, that sort of thing. However, the Great Ghost Dance didn't happen until after the rise of magic went 'above zero' on 24 December 2011. Coleman led his followers out of one of the camps (Abeline, wasn't it?) at the same moment that Ryumyo became the Early Wyrm. While it's possible (and suggested) that the barrier spell he held up to stop the bullets was Ghost-Dance fuelled, most if not all of the Great Ghost Dance magic was done well after that time.
However, it is pretty clear that someone taught him that sort of metamagic.
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Still though....of the 'Awakened' players, who? A Great dragon? Ryumyo was the only Great dragon known to have appeared and they showed, as a group, no interest in us. Dunkelzahn was the only one who seemed interested and that was to prepare meta-humanity for the changes that occurred as the mana level rose. The IE's showed only the interest in placing their long-formed plans into fruition as events occurred; whether it was creating themselves nation-states (Tir Taingire, Tir na Og) or even international organizations (The Atlantean Foundation).
That leaves the third and last category. Greater free-spirits. Remember, Daniel Howling-Coyote was a follower of Dog. But was it truly his mentor and tutored him in the shamanic tradition? Perhaps, if you don't like the possibility that another 'tricked' him into an agreement to free his people from oppression and the camps for reasons unknown ; then I'll leave this fourth and least likely option.
An agent of the Horrors posed as his totem and offered him a faustian deal to mentor him in shamanic magic and teach him how to do the Great Ghost Dance ritual correctly in exchange for the life energy sacrificed and the results that exist in-game.
I could see the fourth being printed up as an adventure by Catalyst; but I would prefer the third, myself. After all, trickster beings appear in every culture on earth. ;) Who knows maybe only one handles them all. ;D
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That's the thing, Parker, even the great dragons and immortal elves have no clue how Howling Coyote learned all that. The only theory I have that is little more than a random guess would be Thaiss, Aina Dupree's son. He tried to do that kind of thing before, but the mana levels weren't high enough. Otherwise, the only real guess I have is that Coyote, being the trickster he is, thought it would be fun to teach Danny a few new tricks.
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That leaves the third and last category. Greater free-spirits. Remember, Daniel Howling-Coyote was a follower of Dog. But was it truly his mentor and tutored him in the shamanic tradition? Perhaps, if you don't like the possibility that another 'tricked' him into an agreement to free his people from oppression and the camps for reasons unknown ; then I'll leave this fourth and least likely option.
I'm 95% certain that Howling Coyote actually followed Coyote, not Dog, based on what happens when he appears in Find Your Own Truth, last of the Secrets of Power trilogy. Which, when combined with your theory, implies that Coyote did the tricking. Interesting.
But I'm not sure how that would square with the Mayan calendar, unless some sort of prophecy was involved - which I didn't think was possible in the SR universe.
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Thais is the one who taught Howling Coyote the ritual. I have no idea if that is still canonical or not.
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And who is Thais?
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Well if it is still canon that makes his secret membership in the Draco Foundation a lot more interesting.
Thais is the half-elf/half-Horror son of Aina Dupree.
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Thais is the one who taught Howling Coyote the ritual. I have no idea if that is still canonical or not.
Textev?
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It's from Worlds Without End, so the certainty of it ever being canon has not been assured.
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And y'know, I even read that part of WWE recently ...
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
My main plotline is something similar to that.
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
My main plotline is something similar to that.
If this happens it makes me wonder who the draconic equivalent to Magic Johnson would be....wow I think I need some sleep.
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Yes, because the dragons aren't on enough of a warpath already.
Plus where is a DracoVamp going to get a black velvet cape THAT big? :o
Oh yeah.. and the coffin.. wonder if an old tanker would count....
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or a very sneaky Insect totem who would play the long game. Anyone here remember Spider way back in the early fictions?
jes' sayin'
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or a very sneaky Insect totem who would play the long game. Anyone here remember Spider way back in the early fictions?
jes' sayin'
Arachnids are not insects.
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Arachnids are not insects.
Pedant.
No, arachnids are not insects, but Spider - or a form of Her - may be Invae. I would bet on 'probably not', though, if only because Spider is an actual helpful totem. The Secrets of Power trilogy version I would actually wrap together as being a going-toxic Spider shaman and the ancient Shadow free spirit they made a spirit pact with. The concept of Spider was naturally used extensively.
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Arachnids are not insects.
Pedant.
No, arachnids are not insects, but Spider - or a form of Her - may be Invae. I would bet on 'probably not', though, if only because Spider is an actual helpful totem. The Secrets of Power trilogy version I would actually wrap together as being a going-toxic Spider shaman and the ancient Shadow free spirit they made a spirit pact with. The concept of Spider was naturally used extensively.
With Spider having always been separate from the insect totems in Shadowrun, I really don't see any reason to even entertain a possibility that Spider turns out to be Invae.
...unless Catalyst chooses to override yet another "truth" of the Shadowrun setting, at least.
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hence my previous comment. And who knows if Spider isn't a form of Invae that doesn't feed on other ones. Or something much worse......
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Ooh. I just had another EVIL thought. Take HMHVV and use a combination of gene sequencing and blood magic to create a strain that affects the dragons. 8) ::)
Ah, yes because creating a power vacuum works out great for everyone and does not in fact end up with everyone who is not Aztechnology and not a great dragon who may or may not be under the influence of horrors being utterly screwed. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find someone to make sure this idea never sees daylight.
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I think it's quite clear in context that Spider (from the Secrets of Power) is not the same as Spider (the totem) or an Invae. A strong case could probably be made (based on its Name, and that being important when the book was written) that it's an aspect of the totem spirit though -- one intentionally walled off or separated from its more benign aspect(s). So Spider as the hunter and killer versus Spider as the builder, so to speak.
HMHVV clearly has a metagenetic factor much like the expression of Awakening. I doubt it's a simple manner to alter its threads (again, to use Earthdawn terminology) to allow it affect another class of creature -much less one that is inherently magical itself. Or, heck, maybe that's what the Aztlan anti-dragon bioweapon is based on HMHVV (vampiric regeneration being incompatible with draconic regeneration, so neither works). Plenty of room to explore the origins of that.