Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: viaRailGun on <05-02-13/0330:53>
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can melee weapons be put in a holster(concealable/quick-draw)?
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to answer this: accessories are for firearms only. i think.
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I think you are right, although it would be a good house rule to allow those for some melee weapons as well.
A concealable holster doesn't really make sense for a claymore, for example, though you can buy one for a LMG so I guess there is precedent.
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While it doesn't actually say holsters are really only for pistol sized weapons, common sense should tell you they are really only for pistol sized weapons. A sheath or scabbard for knives or perhaps small axes are certainly possible to be concealed. Such exist now. Perhaps say that you can get such things for reach 0 weapons and use the same rules as holsters use for pistol sized weapons (quick draw, concealment).
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Is there rules for sheaths and scabbards? I was playing a street Sam for awhile and couldn't find them anywhere.
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I think the assumption is nothing beyond "a weapon has a holster/scabbard" and that's it. I think that common sense should say that a White Knight can't be brought along in a concealable holster - if you want to conceal a sniper rifle or LMG, you probably want to break it down instead of sticking it in your sock holster.
As for things like concealblility, it makes perfect sense to me for smaller items like knives, maybe tomahawks and shorter swords to be masked with a proper sheathe, or potentially worn with quick-draw sheathes.
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Given that a concealable holster doesn't do anything but add +1 to concealment, I could see a "holster" for a machine gun (or great sword) that makes it easier to hide in some way or another, maybe by breaking up the profile, or allowing it to be strapped to your back. Sure, it's still not really concealable, but it's slightly less visible than if it was slung over your shoulder for example.
Same goes for a quick-draw holster. For something like a LMG, it would probably take the form of a harness or the like that makes it easier to unsling and ready quickly. For an axe or sword, some sort of breakaway or quick release sheath would make sense.
I've seen tool belt hammer holsters for construction that use spring clips to allow quick drawing and holstering, and the same technology would work beautifully for a battleaxe. In fact, I think if I ever bought one for a character I would probably get a Craftsman brand, because they have a lifetime warranty.
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Don't forget, concealable holsters only add a bonus to concealability. The weapon can still be detected. If it were up to me, I'd say most one handed melee weapons could be concealed in this fashion. Example: a sword with a concealability of 3 sounds reasonable, the sword is hidden but due to it's size is still fairly detectable.
What he said.
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Eh, for larger-than-pistol weapons you got those nice lengthy coats that give a -2 to everything underneath.
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Given that a concealable holster doesn't do anything but add +1 to concealment, I could see a "holster" for a machine gun (or great sword) that makes it easier to hide in some way or another, maybe by breaking up the profile, or allowing it to be strapped to your back. Sure, it's still not really concealable, but it's slightly less visible than if it was slung over your shoulder for example.
Same goes for a quick-draw holster. For something like a LMG, it would probably take the form of a harness or the like that makes it easier to unsling and ready quickly. For an axe or sword, some sort of breakaway or quick release sheath would make sense.
I've seen tool belt hammer holsters for construction that use spring clips to allow quick drawing and holstering, and the same technology would work beautifully for a battleaxe. In fact, I think if I ever bought one for a character I would probably get a Craftsman brand, because they have a lifetime warranty.
Doesn't the sling already do this for longarms and heavy weapons?
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Ready at a -1 or Not-Ready at a -2 right?
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Ready at a -1 or Not-Ready at a -2 right?
In terms of concealability.
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Not to be pedantic, but it would be sheath or scabbard.
Holsters are for guns.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I'm rather fond of a quiver of hand grenades, and a scabbard of rifles, or perhaps a basket.
But if you're concealing an anything, you're going to put it somewhere less obvious, like on the inside of the fauld on a duster, or within the skirt of a dress. The concealable holster is helping it jostle around, but from there it's up to you to not betray it. Then we get into palming rolls.
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+1 Mantis
I'm pretty sure that anything larger than an assault rifle falls under the category of "non-concealable" right in the book. As far as sheaths/holsters go I'd totally allow someone to buy a sheath that offers the same bonuses as concealed/quickdraw holsters for small hand weapons like knives.
Trying to conceal a machine gun or other heavy weapon is work for a smuggling compartment on a vehicle.
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You're not going to get through a legitimate checkpoint with any weapons period. Concealable holsters just break up the silhouette, it's up to you keep yourself at a less observable distance. Perhaps you're waiting for a signal and you're standing on a street corner, you and your team are in inconspicuous places, but you're getting ready to rush a building. You're each packing some serious heat, but you're nowhere near a checkpoint, and most passerby are too busy to even give notice to you, let alone check you for weapons.
This is where it's not just possible, but the reasonable to conceal your bigger weapons, the circumstances vary but it'd be down right silly to assume that there is a cap on concealable.
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Yeah but there is a limit on what you can jam in a holster. That's all. After all you can get easy breakdown for larger weapons and stick them in a brief case to hide them and as I pointed out already, a sling provides the same bonus to longarms as the concealable holster does for pistol sized stuff.
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I had forgotten that slings gave concealability bonuses. But I would think of a concealable holster for a rifle to be a nylon bag with a plastic insert and then webbing to attach it to a jacket, at least, that's how I imagine it.
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Why do they give that concealability bonus? Is it because without the sling it's assumed you are holding it in your hands, which is clearly easy to identify the gun?
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Yeah. The unready -2 bonus is under the assumption it is slung out of the way, perhaps under a coat or whatever while the -1 would be for it slung at the side ready to bring into action but still close to the body.
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Wait, what? Where does it say that the sling grants a concealment bonus? That's sweet if it does since I've got a character trying to conceal a SMG which happens to have a sling under his long coat.
EDIT: I looked it up. It does, sweet. It doesn't mention it in the Accessories section of Arsenal but it does in the Mods section.
You're not going to get through a legitimate checkpoint with any weapons period.
Phbbbt to that.
A face with a fat stack of bribe money says otherwise.
A scan shielded smuggling compartment in the sam's cyber torso/leg says otherwise.
The disassembled weapon that looks like a collection of bits of junk says otherwise.
Heck the ork I'm currently playing punches for 8+hits and all he's got is a nice cyberarm (not terribly subtle mind you but he's got a solid fake ID as an ex-military war hero and his licenses are all up to date).
This is where it's not just possible, but the reasonable to conceal your bigger weapons, the circumstances vary but it'd be down right silly to assume that there is a cap on concealable.
SR4 20th an ed page 311 under concealability table. The largest items listed are the assault rife and katana at +6. Read that how you like but I read that not as "people automatically notice it," but as "if someone actually rolls a search then they automatically find it."
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If you've got the money for special containers and bribes, you're not even going through the checkpoint, you're going around it. To actually go through a checkpoint, with a gun unnoticed, the largest thing you can get through there are pistols completely unnoticed, maybe an AR in a false bottomed MDS sheathed suitcase, maybe. But inspectors aren't the slouches we'd like to imagine they are.
But like I just said, the point is to prevent people from automatically noticing something, you can be inconspicuous with things. You can look like you're just carrying a beach umbrella, when it's actually packed with a rifle, or look like you're just wearing a poofy skirt, when under it is a sawed off LMG. Not getting into a swaray with it, but walking down the street across the way from the hidden Renraku building disguised as a condemned tenement, no one's going to bat an eye.
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Why not? The downside of bypassing checkpoints is that from that point on if you get stopped and anyone actually checks on it you're screwed. One quick check with Al down at the desk and your cover is blown. If you go through the checkpoint then you've got part of your alibi ready to go and your i's are dotted and your t's crossed.
As far as the guy being a slouch it really all comes down to your dice pool plus modifiers versus his or his scanners. As long as you know what sort of procedures and/or scanners you're going to go up against you know what actions/precautions you need to take.
As far as smaller weapons being easier to conceal goes. Well. Yea. I didn't realize that was debatable. You said any weapons.
"But like I just said, the point is to prevent people from automatically noticing something, you can be inconspicuous with things."
Yes I agree. I differentiate between casual observer and intentional search of your person. If they're doing an intentional search of your person you aren't going to conceal anything larger than an assault rifle, and even that takes quite a bit of skill.
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(http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/mx_117KeanuReeves.jpg)
Nuff said.
;D
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Lol
Well I guess he did "get through a legitimate checkpoint with any weapons period." Then again most of them were empty by the time he did.
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He turned most of his ammunition over to the security guards for safe keeping.
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He turned most of his ammunition over to the security guards for safe keeping.
Seemed to me he turned most of his ammunition over to the walls for safe keeping.