Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Ninja137 on <05-03-13/1208:38>
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Does a Chameleon suits -4 on Perception checks to notice you stack with the Concealment power? Does a Pixie in a cham suit have a -10 to see it?
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Yes, it should. That's why micro and minidrones with chameleon coating are so difficult to spot.
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Yes, it does. And that's why Pixie covert ops adepts are damn near impossible to see.
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Are there any other ways to get either an insane infiltration check or a better minus to spot you? Besides just raising magic, of course.
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Raising your skill helps. ;)
After that, you're looking at spells, spirits, or hacking. Spells can blind sensors and make you hard to spot. Spirits can conceal you, or mislead guards so that they don't see you. And you can always just hack the security system and edit in real time, so that the system is up, but you don't show up on it.
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Nevermind that entire post.
If you wanted a combat focused adept with a focus on Infiltration, what exactly would be the best way to do it? Invisible Way for Unseen Hands and grab Walker of Ways to add Improved Reflexes, Critical Strike, and Improved Ability: Combat Skills?
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My friend is running a Pixie, but he uses syringes of narcoject and GBH. He was also telleporting using the Vanish "Ability" and apparently doesn't show up on electronic sensors, though I don't think vanish entails any form of travel in they physical plane.
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My friend is running a Pixie, but he uses syringes of narcoject and GBH. He was also telleporting using the Vanish "Ability" and apparently doesn't show up on electronic sensors, though I don't think vanish entails any form of travel in they physical plane.
Bro, no he isn't.
New critt er weakn ess
Vanish
When a critter would die from any cause, be it
old age or the detonation of a nuclear weapon, it
vanishes from this world, leaving no trace. This
disappearance can be captured on film, video, or
trideo cameras with ease, but there is no way known
to stop or prevent it—even the critter itself seems
powerless to remain. Researchers debate exactly
where the critters go; many suggest they transition
to some metaplane where they cannot die. Naturally,
no resuscitation, autopsy, or cybermantic procedure
is viable on the critter without a body to work with.
Vanish is your body disappearing when you die, not you going invisible.
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I keep telling him that, and after making it enough of an issue he stopped warping through time and space. He pointed me to Vanish in running wild, which is apparently now an ability, which allows them to disappear to no one knows where and then back again. I pointed out that it doesn't entail travel as teleportation is impossible, probably more like Contact and the gate.
And then, Pixies don't show up on electronic sensors, and I don't know where they're getting that either.
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I keep telling him that, and after making it enough of an issue he stopped warping through time and space. He pointed me to Vanish in running wild, which is apparently now an ability, which allows them to disappear to no one knows where and then back again. I pointed out that it doesn't entail travel as teleportation is impossible, probably more like Contact and the gate.
And then, Pixies don't show up on electronic sensors, and I don't know where they're getting that either.
They are different abilities. Also, Conceal Self gives them negatives to spot him, not makes him IMPOSSIBLE to spot.
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The pixie weakness 'Vanish' is NOT the same as the 'Vanishing' ability in Running Wild.
The pixie weakness makes your body dissapear into the ether if you are killed.
The Running Wild ability lets you teleport.
They're even spelled differently. Note the lack of the "ing" on the pixie version.
Additionally, "Concealment (Self Only)" imposes a dice pool penalty equal to the pixie's Magic rating on Perception tests, and only affects <magic rating> number of opponents. It's not invisibility, electronic or otherwise. If someone or something still manages to suceed on the test even with the penalty, they can then see and target the pixie just fine.
Also note that the pixie is not a dual-natured creature, so they can't take advantage of Concealment on the Astral.
-k
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Good to know.
Though Vanish, allows the creature to disappear into a metaplane, not disappear into the astral, travel wherever they like then come back. If I remember from some of the fluff, mages going into metaplanes just by projecting needed an anchoring focus just to find their way back. So I don't know how the critters do it.
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Maybe that changes by edition? In Samuel Verner's(Twist's) time, no anchoring focus was needed. He did his metaplanar stuff, then he popped back.
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Remember to add the "ing" on the end.
"Vanish"
"Vanishing"
It's important. :)
And as for why critters with "Vanishing" can do it, it's because MAGIC. Or perhaps they are just native to this kinda thing.
-k
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Doesn't that break the whole "No telleporting, not even with magic" thing?
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I'm not seeing where it says they can teleport. They can disappear, and they can reappear as a complex action. It doesn't specify if they reappear in the same location or not. Reappear, to me, sounds like they pop back in at the same location... but that's obviously just an opinion.
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That's how I urged them to rule it, otherwise it's just broken as all get out.
"I choose pixie with narcoject, I telleport to where I think the badguys are because I saw a news feed, I poison the badguys.'
"The hacker got me a feed on the server room, I telleport in and put a tap on the paydata."
"I telleport in and out of the bank repeatedly and steal all the bearer bonds"
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Physically disappearing from one physical world location and reappearing elsewhere is not possible in SR.
However, popping over to the astral/meta-planes and coming back in a different spot is completely okay.
A thin distinction, but it's there. I will point out that most of the time, players shouldn't have access to the "Vanishing" power.
Again, Pixies don't have the "Vanishing" power. They have "Vanish".
-k
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So metaplanar movement translates to Earth movement?
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Again, Pixies don't have the "Vanishing" power. They have "Vanish".
-k
Good eye, thanks, I'll point that out to him. No idea how he stumbled across Vanishing.
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So metaplanar movement translates to Earth movement?
It can.
"Metaplanar Shortcut: Spirits that find their physical or astral movement impeded by a dual-natured mana barrier may take a quick trip to the metaplanes and back again to the other side of the barrier." - Street Magic pg 94
There is a spirit power that allows them to take passengers, even. Can't remember where that is located but it's supposed to be something players should rarely get access to.
-k
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Makes sense.
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Wow, and here I thought they didn't even bend the telleporting rule even in extreme cases. It's more like traveling via wormhole and parallel universes, but, still.
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Well, Harlequin still remembers how to step bodily into the astral, and travel that way. May seem like teleportation, since he can get from one side of North America to the other in astonishing time, but it isn't. Just like a sufficiently high force Levitate spell isn't the same as teleportation, even though you may be there one second and gone the next. They're firm on the 'no teleporting' thing, since teleporting is instant transmission from A to B. Even the case of spirits jaunting to their metaplane and back takes a couple full actions, I believe, so still not an instant thing.
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Well, Harlequin still remembers how to step bodily into the astral, and travel that way. May seem like teleportation, since he can get from one side of North America to the other in astonishing time, but it isn't. Just like a sufficiently high force Levitate spell isn't the same as teleportation, even though you may be there one second and gone the next. They're firm on the 'no teleporting' thing, since teleporting is instant transmission from A to B. Even the case of spirits jaunting to their metaplane and back takes a couple full actions, I believe, so still not an instant thing.
Harlequin isn't real.
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Actually, what exactly is it that allows you to do that? Is it a spirit power?
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Does a Chameleon suits -4 on Perception checks to notice you stack with the Concealment power? Does a Pixie in a cham suit have a -10 to see it?
The chameleon suit needs to fully cover the person using it - remember that pixies have wings, and I have a hard time picturing a skintight suit that covers a pixie wings and all. It doesn't sound practical, or easy to get into and out of.
Also note that the pixie is not a dual-natured creature, so they can't take advantage of Concealment on the Astral.
They have astral perception as a power, though, so they are dual-natured when using it.
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Actually, what exactly is it that allows you to do that? Is it a spirit power?
He's from the 4th World - he's been around for a very long time and has learned how to use magic in ways that no one in the 6th World has rediscovered (nor has anyone from the 4th World taught them). Thus, he can do things that basically no one else can.
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Actually, what exactly is it that allows you to do that? Is it a spirit power?
He's from the 4th World - he's been around for a very long time and has learned how to use magic in ways that no one in the 6th World has rediscovered (nor has anyone from the 4th World taught them). Thus, he can do things that basically no one else can.
Isn't it just Astral Gateway?
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No, that has a very different effect. Harley has been suggested to be able to move between two points in physical space by moving through astral space. Astral Gateway basically puts an area in contact with a specific area of astral space allowing mundanes to project over to there. When you project, your body stays in the same place.
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Yeah pretty much. Also on the whole no teleporting thing, that rule applies to spells. The rule is Sorcery Cannot Alter the Fabric of the Space/
Time Continuum. Whatever it is Harlequin (and Ehran the scribe and others) do, it is likely a metamagic similar to Astral Gateway, rather than a spell.
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More importantly, those rules are things that people in the 6th World haven't been able to get sorcery to do. Beings like Harlequin, Ehran, and Hestaby know far, far more.
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There were several abilities back in the Fourth World that allowed someone to bodily travel to the Astral. Naturally, these were high level effects, with high level dangers attached to them (not the least of which being the chance of running into an astral Horror). And yes, this is magic beyond what anyone not of Harlequin or Ehran's level at least can do. Even Frosty, who has the right pedigree (and trained under Harlequin) wouldn't be able to pull it off. The mana level is still too low for people who aren't on that level to use such powers.
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I'm surprised the still waxing mana levels haven't in some way curbed Harleys mojo, like I thought the mana levels were effectively like a flight ceiling on magic.
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They are, Aryeonos. But you're comparing someone with an F-22 Raptor to the rest of us in an ultralight. The flight ceiling goes up the more power you have to work with.
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The F-15E can shoot down satellites in space, who gets to be that? So, as the mana gradually escelates, what, harley will just start what... going DBZ super sayin warp 19? Or is it that he's strong enough that he's just ignoring a greater portion of the lower mana cycle, and not that he won't get exponentially stronger.
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The F-15E can shoot down satellites in space, who gets to be that? So, as the mana gradually escelates, what, harley will just start what... going DBZ super sayin warp 19? Or is it that he's strong enough that he's just ignoring a greater portion of the lower mana cycle, and not that he won't get exponentially stronger.
He'll pull this (http://youtu.be/s_CkQtbtcFc?t=11s).
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Is it bad that that's the first thing I thought of?
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Usually I'm linking to this (http://youtu.be/6npO-NoOPOg?t=10s). ;D
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ah, that's how he's going to instruct the human race on how to fight the horrors.
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ah, that's how he's going to instruct the human race on how to fight the horrors.
"Yeah, sure, we'll go with that. Not just trying to fight boredom of immortality at all, really, honest. Yep, fighting the Enemy. ... *Snerk* OH DEAR GHOST, YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT? OH MAN, WAIT, wait wait wait, I have to call Lofwyr and tell him this. He hasn't had a laugh in decades! Loffy... Chummer, how's it hanging?"
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The F-15E can shoot down satellites in space, who gets to be that? So, as the mana gradually escelates, what, harley will just start what... going DBZ super sayin warp 19? Or is it that he's strong enough that he's just ignoring a greater portion of the lower mana cycle, and not that he won't get exponentially stronger.
As the mana cycle gradually escalates, Harlequin and the other immortal elves and great dragons will get more powerful, but not exponentially so. They'll still be more powerful than any other individual around, but when the mana levels are high enough, the Therans showed that you can kill great dragons with enough magical firepower. They were directly responsible for at least three great dragons dying back in the Fourth World (two before the Scourge, one after).
ah, that's how he's going to instruct the human race on how to fight the horrors.
"Yeah, sure, we'll go with that. Not just trying to fight boredom of immortality at all, really, honest. Yep, fighting the Enemy. ... *Snerk* OH DEAR GHOST, YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT? OH MAN, WAIT, wait wait wait, I have to call Lofwyr and tell him this. He hasn't had a laugh in decades! Loffy... Chummer, how's it hanging?"
Hmm. A little cheerful for Harlequin, I think.
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The mysterious brooding stranger is just an act, in actuality he's a 10'000 year old talk show host.
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ah, that's how he's going to instruct the human race on how to fight the horrors.
"Yeah, sure, we'll go with that. Not just trying to fight boredom of immortality at all, really, honest. Yep, fighting the Enemy. ... *Snerk* OH DEAR GHOST, YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT? OH MAN, WAIT, wait wait wait, I have to call Lofwyr and tell him this. He hasn't had a laugh in decades! Loffy... Chummer, how's it hanging?"
Hmm. A little cheerful for Harlequin, I think.[/quote]He's Harley, not Batman. :P
But, yeah, a bit much. I'm in a strange mood.
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I much preferred Harley Quin, and Mark Hamill.