Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: mtfeeney = Baron on <05-07-13/0219:24>

Title: Armor modification stacking
Post by: mtfeeney = Baron on <05-07-13/0219:24>
If you have rating 3 insulation on your armor and rating 3 insulation on your FFBA, does it function as a total of rating 6?  Or is it just rating 3 and the second modification is worthless?
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: Medicineman on <05-07-13/0221:50>
there is no RAW for it

In My Groups we stack it  'til Level 6

with a Lvl 6 Dance
Medicineman
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: Reaver on <05-07-13/0310:12>
If you have rating 3 insulation on your armor and rating 3 insulation on your FFBA, does it function as a total of rating 6?  Or is it just rating 3 and the second modification is worthless?

I apply the 50% effectiveness rule if mods are on different pieces of armor... But that's just me and my house rule after some fairly silly abuses came up at my table....

As medicineman said, there is no RAW for it either way...
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: Mantis on <05-07-13/0315:03>
For our table we just add enough of a given mod to replace what you usually lose from the typical 1/2 impact armour penalty these types of attacks inflict. So if you have a lined coat for example, we'd typically add 2 points of whatever to it to compensate for the 4 impact getting halved when hit by an elemental attack. That way you usually end up rolling whatever your impact would normally be.
But otherwise, yeah, no RAW for this. Just do whatever causes the least headaches.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: emsquared on <05-07-13/1958:31>
We don't stack it. Why? Because a 6 and 6 dual layer would be 12 resistance (and more layers - orthoskin; which explicitly stacks/modifies - would allow even more), which is healthily above the RAW max rating and therefore, we interpret, disbalanced. However I really could see it go either way if you want to help out mundane a and/or downplay SnS.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: mtfeeney = Baron on <05-07-13/2200:38>
I think it would still be limited to the RAW maximum rating of 6.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: emsquared on <05-07-13/2232:57>
I think it would still be limited to the RAW maximum rating of 6.
Still isn't consistent with the closest similar mechanic (B/I Armor) where only the highest rating applies. Then again, maybe that isn't the closest similar mechanic?
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: mtfeeney = Baron on <05-07-13/2304:50>
Yep, and that's how I initially for to this point. Armor doesn't stack, but reason tells me that two layers of insulation would dual up to a maximum level of efficiency.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: emsquared on <05-07-13/2323:42>
Yep, and that's how I initially for to this point. Armor doesn't stack, but reason tells me that two layers of insulation would dual up to a maximum level of efficiency.
Are you just doing this for Insulation? Or Non-conductivity and fire resistance, too?

An analog I can give you from real-life (since it sounds like you're trying to apply RL logic to this abstract game mechanic) is that for job-sites where you are required to wear Fire-Resistant Clothing, they have several different increasing ratings, a rating 2 might be adequate for an open-air gas-production facility, a rating 4 requirement might be mandatory in, say, a sub-surface mine where the atmosphere can be explosive. You cannot wear 2 layers of rating 2 FRC and still meet the OSHA requirement - you have to have the rating 4 FRC. Which is to say, I think these things (levels of protection) tend to be graded on an exponential scale, not linear. Stacking is linear.

Ultimately, as with all of these unclear rules, you should do what works best for your table. If you allow stacking, you could be slightly compromising (i.e. providing a loop-hole) to armor modification rules, by essentially letting low capacity armors do more (i.e. take some of the load off of higher capacity armors), which in turn will ultimately largely just benefit Mundanes vs. Awakened (not a bad thing if you think it's already Magic-run). Don't allow the stacking and you're applying Occam's Razor and, IMO, following the closest analog.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: Ninja137 on <05-08-13/0001:58>
Yep, and that's how I initially for to this point. Armor doesn't stack, but reason tells me that two layers of insulation would dual up to a maximum level of efficiency.
Are you just doing this for Insulation? Or Non-conductivity and fire resistance, too?

An analog I can give you from real-life (since it sounds like you're trying to apply RL logic to this abstract game mechanic) is that for job-sites where you are required to wear Fire-Resistant Clothing, they have several different increasing ratings, a rating 2 might be adequate for an open-air gas-production facility, a rating 4 requirement might be mandatory in, say, a sub-surface mine where the atmosphere can be explosive. You cannot wear 2 layers of rating 2 FRC and still meet the OSHA requirement - you have to have the rating 4 FRC. Which is to say, I think these things (levels of protection) tend to be graded on an exponential scale, not linear. Stacking is linear.

Ultimately, as with all of these unclear rules, you should do what works best for your table. If you allow stacking, you could be slightly compromising (i.e. providing a loop-hole) to armor modification rules, by essentially letting low capacity armors do more (i.e. take some of the load off of higher capacity armors), which in turn will ultimately largely just benefit Mundanes vs. Awakened (not a bad thing if you think it's already Magic-run). Don't allow the stacking and you're applying Occam's Razor and, IMO, following the closest analog.

It basically is Mage-run, though. Magic offers so much more than mundane, with so few drawbacks, that there is little reason to choose mundane/augs over magic aside from flavor.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: mtfeeney = Baron on <05-08-13/0013:32>
Food for thought.  Thanks for the feedback guys.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: emsquared on <05-08-13/0050:32>
... there is little reason to choose mundane/augs over magic aside from flavor.
Not really true at all as a unilateral statement. Drain can be a bitch, and a GM should use Background Counts from time to time, plus 'ware does a lot of things really cheaply for no Drain at all, running constantly.

Magical offense is hard to defend against - that's really it, IMO the only time things become Magic-run is when Awakened are "over-present" in the game. But this probably isn't really the place to debate this.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: JoeNapalm on <05-08-13/0937:09>
We don't stack it. Why? Because a 6 and 6 dual layer would be 12 resistance (and more layers - orthoskin; which explicitly stacks/modifies - would allow even more), which is healthily above the RAW max rating and therefore, we interpret, disbalanced. However I really could see it go either way if you want to help out mundane a and/or downplay SnS.


I haven't had my coffee, yet.

Are you suggesting that you can add armor modifications to Orthoskin?

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: Michael Chandra on <05-08-13/0941:26>
Dragon hide adds a +2 against Fire, but it doesn't count as a level of Fire Resistance so it stacks anyway.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: emsquared on <05-08-13/0955:05>
I haven't had my coffee, yet.

Are you suggesting that you can add armor modifications to Orthoskin?

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Heh, no.
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: JoeNapalm on <05-08-13/1013:42>
I haven't had my coffee, yet.

Are you suggesting that you can add armor modifications to Orthoskin?

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Heh, no.

"Ahem. Uh, Major Kusanagi? We can, like, totally see you."


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Title: Re: Armor modification stacking
Post by: Mithlas on <05-08-13/1103:57>
"Ahem. Uh, Major Kusanagi? We can, like, totally see you."
Quote from: Mystery Men
Maybe you should put some shorts on or something, if you want to keep fighting evil today.