Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Basic on <06-03-13/1047:59>
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I wanted to know what sniper rifles other then the Walther MA-2100
That don't have to fallow the rule:
Use the Longarms skill when firing precision sniper rifles. While sturdier
than earlier models, sniper rifles in 2072 are still not designed
for close-up combat. At the end of every Turn in which the rifle is
used in a running firefight (as opposed to a sniping situation), roll an
Edge Test. For every Edge Test failed, the weapon incurs a –1 dice
pool modifier until it is recalibrated with an Armorer + Logic (8, 1
Minute) Extended Test. The modifier is doubled if the weapon is used
in combat as a melee weapon or to defend from a melee attack.
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None. The 2100 is the sole exception to that rule.
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You would think that they would give a option you could put on the rifle to make it like the WA 2100
Or at least put other rifles in there like that.
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Nah, it's a nice aspect of the Walther: Poorest damage, but can be used in a running firefight.
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Well, you can use Sport Rifles, Assault Rifles, or (if your GM allows them) Battle Rifles. They don't have quite the range, but the comparison is fairly good and they're not as sensitive.
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Sport rifles. A couple mods and APDS rounds.... you'll never know the difference. Plus you can run around screaming WOLVERINES!!!! A La Patrick Swayze.
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Sadly, sniper rifles are a delicate, finely crafted and engineered piece of equipment... They are not meant for combat activity on the same level as an assault rifle, or even a sport rifle!
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Which is why Designated Marksman's Rifles were designed and produced. :P
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Which generally don't operate at the same range as sniper rifle. From my understanding they are more like battle rifles with a good set of optics on them in SR terms.
Why do players always want to have their cake and eat it too? Right tool for the right job I always say. ;)
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Which generally don't operate at the same range as sniper rifle. From my understanding they are more like battle rifles with a good set of optics on them in SR terms.
Why do players always want to have their cake and eat it too? Right tool for the right job I always say. ;)
So do I.
But I was commenting on the durability of DMRs rather than their being used as sniper rifles.
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Personally, for a character that specializes in extremely long-ranged combat, a good sniper rifle is without a doubt the best tool for the job. Even if they have to run and gun, the -1 isn't too bad of a penalty, and if the rifle is modded enough it will be just as deadly at 5 meters as it is at 1000.
I used to give my dedicated sniper a shotgun as a backup weapon, but I found on the rare case she needed to work at close ranges the sniper rifle was still better. There are very few things it isn't at least adequate for, except concealed carry.
And the mental image of a gnome carrying a Barrett on a run-and-gun scenario is just too awesome.
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Have the gnome modify it with a pogo stick attachment.
I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
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Have the gnome modify it with a pogo stick attachment.
I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
I think it has a lot to do with balancing. 1.5 km range (albiet actually using that range is a rare occurance) pretty much means that a sniper could take out 2 people a IP, or heavily hurt them for a few rounds before the sniper is in range of the target's weapons.
Even magic at that range may be difficult if they are trying to search for the sniper. Although my team just houserules it at a -3 dicepool for in combat situations since its easier to track.
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Have the gnome modify it with a pogo stick attachment.
I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
Well, your talking about 2 different things :p
The durability of the desert strike is environmental, meaning it can handle the sand and dust of the desert and still put rounds on target without fear of jamming.
Considering the ranges most snipers fire from 600-1500m, even firing at the wrong throb of their heart can cause them to miss! Add in environmental factors such as wind speed, difference in elevation to target, bullet arc for the caliber of round, humidity, cloud cover, etc. And you start to see snipers and their spotters as scientists and less as grunts.
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Have the gnome modify it with a pogo stick attachment.
I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
Well, your talking about 2 different things :p
The durability of the desert strike is environmental, meaning it can handle the sand and dust of the desert and still put rounds on target without fear of jamming.
Considering the ranges most snipers fire from 600-1500m, even firing at the wrong throb of their heart can cause them to miss! Add in environmental factors such as wind speed, difference in elevation to target, bullet arc for the caliber of round, humidity, cloud cover, etc. And you start to see snipers and their spotters as scientists and less as grunts.
In real life yes. I got to work the comm for some force recon snipers in the Marines and got to talk to them a lot. Its amazing how much math they end up doing in their heads.
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Yeah, I met a few and it's almost infuriating how smart they are.
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Personally, for a character that specializes in extremely long-ranged combat, a good sniper rifle is without a doubt the best tool for the job. Even if they have to run and gun, the -1 isn't too bad of a penalty, and if the rifle is modded enough it will be just as deadly at 5 meters as it is at 1000.
I used to give my dedicated sniper a shotgun as a backup weapon, but I found on the rare case she needed to work at close ranges the sniper rifle was still better. There are very few things it isn't at least adequate for, except concealed carry.
And the mental image of a gnome carrying a Barrett on a run-and-gun scenario is just too awesome.
I'm genuinely interested, why do you prefer sniper rifles over assault cannons for long rage combat?
Seems to me like ACs have the upper hand in range, damage and AP-ability. Is the 14F availability of the ammo why you don't prefer ACs?
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Could be the portability, and the utility - Longarms includes shotguns and, if they do things in what I think is the right way in 5E, may include Battle Rifles (Gun Haven and War!).
Being spotted with a sniper rifle means that the corpsec might call high threat response on you. Being spotted with an assault cannon means that corpsec calls the national guard.
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Could be the portability, and the utility - Longarms includes shotguns and, if they do things in what I think is the right way in 5E, may include Battle Rifles (Gun Haven and War!).
Being spotted with a sniper rifle means that the corpsec might call high threat response on you. Being spotted with an assault cannon means that corpsec calls the national guard.
Sure Longarms include shotguns but Heavy Weapons has machine-guns, grande launchers and rocket lanuchers along with ACs.
So I would say that you get a lot of bang for you BPs if you pick up Heavy Weapons.
But your right, a AC draws a lot of attention and that's not a good thing if you're a shadejogger.
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Personally, for a character that specializes in extremely long-ranged combat, a good sniper rifle is without a doubt the best tool for the job. Even if they have to run and gun, the -1 isn't too bad of a penalty, and if the rifle is modded enough it will be just as deadly at 5 meters as it is at 1000.
I used to give my dedicated sniper a shotgun as a backup weapon, but I found on the rare case she needed to work at close ranges the sniper rifle was still better. There are very few things it isn't at least adequate for, except concealed carry.
And the mental image of a gnome carrying a Barrett on a run-and-gun scenario is just too awesome.
I'm genuinely interested, why do you prefer sniper rifles over assault cannons for long rage combat?
Seems to me like ACs have the upper hand in range, damage and AP-ability. Is the 14F availability of the ammo why you don't prefer ACs?
Assault Cannons:
Can not mount silencers, or sound suppressors
Limited to AC rounds only
Double uncompensated recoil
Slightly less range then a Sniper rifle (by 50 meters)
SS firing more.
Compare all that to a to a Sniper rifle:
Can use silencers/suppressors
Can use any ammo type available
longer range over an AC (by 50 meters)
usually SA firing mode (some sniping rifles are SS, but the vast majority are SA)
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If you look at the stats for a AC, they are:
name: DAM AP MODE RC Ammo AVAL Cost
Thunderstruck: 9p (1/2im)-4 SA (1) 10c+E 24F 13K
Vigorous 10p -5 SS - 12c 18F 4k
XXL 10p -5 SS (1) 15c 20F 5.5k
Ammo for an AC
Name Dam MOD AP MOD AVAIL COST
assault cannon as cannon as cannon 16F $450
AV as cannon -1/-3* 20F $2500
* -1 vs people, -3 vs vehicles
Now look at the Sniper rifles:
Name: DAM AP MODE RC ammo Avail Cost
Strike 8p -3 SA (1) 14c 10F 3.3k
121 9p -4 SA (2) 14c 18F 9k
Enforcer 7p -3 SA (2) 2x12c 12F 4.8k
SM-4 8p -3 SA (1) 15c 16F 6.2k
2100 7p -3 SA (1) 10m 10F 5K
then the Ammo that in commonly used:
Name: DAM MOD AP MOD Avail Cost
APDS - -4 16F $70
EX-EX +1 -1 12F $100
AV - -4/-6* 18F $120
reg - - 2R $20
SS 6s(e) -1/2 im 5R $80
* -6 vs Vehicles and barriers -4 vs people
So, Aside from the thunder stuck, I throw APDS and AV rounds into my sniper rifle and I have better AP then an Assault cannon (by 2 points with the barret 121) The weapon is mostly silent, I get 2 shots off to a assault Cannon's 1, and I have better range. all for only -1 to -3 less damage per shot. Not a bad trade off, especially considering the second extra shot.
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I bow to your expertise Reaver.
Oh well good thing I non of my players so far have made a long range fire support expert.
I'd feel like a foo for giving 'em jive paydata.
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I bow to your expertise Reaver.
Oh well good thing I non of my players so far have made a long range fire support expert.
I'd feel like a foo for giving 'em jive paydata.
it's all about the right tool for the job.
A sniper rifle is a great tool for splattering heads at range...
An assault cannon is great for busting open vehicles and drones.....
That said, what sounds more panic inducing? "OMG he has a sniper rifle!!" Or, "OMG! he has an Assault Cannon!!"
Sometimes the best weapon isn't the one you shoot... just the one you have to point :P
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There's one serious aspect you're missing, Ted: sotguns and sport rifles are civvie-legal. That can be a huge benefit.
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There's one serious aspect you're missing, Ted: shotguns and sport rifles are civvie-legal. That can be a huge benefit.
Yeah that is true, I tend to focus more on high-end guns and how to make them snazzier so sometimes I miss things like that.
I'll keep that in mind my for my players.
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That's generally not the best focus, especially as a GM - the hostiles most runners deal with aren't gonna be armed with state of the art tech, after all. Corpsec, for example, is going to be armed with whatever does the job the cheapest - this doesn't mean their gear sucks, but it's not going to be fantastic custom modded stuff, either. NPC's that do have that sort of thing are going to be something else that's in a whole different order of dangerous.
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That said, what sounds more panic inducing? "OMG he has a sniper rifle!!" Or, "OMG! he has an Assault Cannon!!"
I'll go with Door Number Three:
"OMG! He has a laser designator!"
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That said, what sounds more panic inducing? "OMG he has a sniper rifle!!" Or, "OMG! he has an Assault Cannon!!"
I'll go with Door Number Three:
"OMG! He has a laser designator!"
Few vocalizations inspire the brownings of pants more than "Snip-AGH!".
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That said, what sounds more panic inducing? "OMG he has a sniper rifle!!" Or, "OMG! he has an Assault Cannon!!"
I'll go with Door Number Three:
"OMG! He has a laser designator!"
Few vocalizations inspire the brownings of pants more than "Snip-AGH!".
true.
one of them being "Assault CA-" <BOOM!!!> *wet splatter sounds*
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That said, what sounds more panic inducing? "OMG he has a sniper rifle!!" Or, "OMG! he has an Assault Cannon!!"
I'll go with Door Number Three:
"OMG! He has a laser designator!"
As the old quote goes: "God always favors the side who fields the most Artillery!" ;)
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That said, what sounds more panic inducing? "OMG he has a sniper rifle!!" Or, "OMG! he has an Assault Cannon!!"
I'll go with Door Number Three:
"OMG! He has a laser designator!"
As the old quote goes: "God always favors the side who fields the most Artillery!" ;)
"When the going gets tough, the tough call in CAS."
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That's generally not the best focus, especially as a GM - the hostiles most runners deal with aren't gonna be armed with state of the art tech, after all. Corpsec, for example, is going to be armed with whatever does the job the cheapest - this doesn't mean their gear sucks, but it's not going to be fantastic custom modded stuff, either. NPC's that do have that sort of thing are going to be something else that's in a whole different order of dangerous.
I see your point RHat but when I browse through Arsenal and Gun h(e)aven it mostly for fun.I wouldn't drop a Ares Warhammer with 4 full auto cannons on my players unless they had done something Earth-shatteringly stupid.
Thanks for the advice BTW, I'll keep the costs of guns in mind if I ever build any runs of my own.
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Personally, for a character that specializes in extremely long-ranged combat, a good sniper rifle is without a doubt the best tool for the job. Even if they have to run and gun, the -1 isn't too bad of a penalty, and if the rifle is modded enough it will be just as deadly at 5 meters as it is at 1000.
I used to give my dedicated sniper a shotgun as a backup weapon, but I found on the rare case she needed to work at close ranges the sniper rifle was still better. There are very few things it isn't at least adequate for, except concealed carry.
And the mental image of a gnome carrying a Barrett on a run-and-gun scenario is just too awesome.
I'm genuinely interested, why do you prefer sniper rifles over assault cannons for long rage combat?
Seems to me like ACs have the upper hand in range, damage and AP-ability. Is the 14F availability of the ammo why you don't prefer ACs?
The difficulty of reliably getting ammo is a small part of it, but it is also a matter of the sheer size of an Autocannon (which means even if you mod it to break down it takes a whole lot more space), it is a Heavy Weapon, it can't use varied ammo types (I love using Gel Rounds for intimidation), it can't be silenced or suppressed, it is SS rather than SA, and the damage code and AP isn't that much higher, especially compared to a Barrett 121. Also, if you have low BOD and STR and your GM actually enforces encumbrance, you may not even be able to carry that AC without taking penalties.
In fact, a Barrett 121 firing Explosive rounds has the same damage and AP as a Panther or Vigorous cannon, and while it may cost more for the gun itself, you get a built-in silencer, internal smartgun and folding bipod (total value 4300¥ if installed on the Vigorous), and each bullet is 1/9 the cost. Plus the Rifle can fire twice per IP. Reaver went into more detail about this in an earlier post. (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=11148.msg207085#msg207085)
Finally it is an aesthetic choice as much as anything, which is my first priority when crating a RPG character in any system. I did once create a Troll sniper who used a modified AC as a sniper rifle, but honestly what I found is that there is nothing that an AC can do that a properly modified SR can't do better, with the possible exception of taking out heavy vehicles.
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Antitank rounds: 9/-10. If that won't tear through the engine block, nothing will.
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Thinking about this close combat rule regarding sniper rifles: Does it also apply when it is carried in a weapon mount of a flying drone?
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Thinking about this close combat rule regarding sniper rifles: Does it also apply when it is carried in a weapon mount of a flying drone?
It applies any time it is used in something other than a proper sniping position, so to me the answer seems like a yes.
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If it's maneuvering during the firefight, most likely - the flying equivalent of "a sniping situation" is probably "hovering in place", though, so I figure it can still fire while airborne without problems as long as it doesn't have to dodge attacks or do anything beyond rotating to aim.
Not sure what to use for the Edge test if the drone's operating autonomously, though: System, perhaps?
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hm. Then the drone creates a plenty of those situations while on the way to a sniping position. At least it does not dis- and reassamble the rifle on transit.
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If it's maneuvering during the firefight, most likely - the flying equivalent of "a sniping situation" is probably "hovering in place", though, so I figure it can still fire while airborne without problems as long as it doesn't have to dodge attacks or do anything beyond rotating to aim.
Not sure what to use for the Edge test if the drone's operating autonomously, though: System, perhaps?
VTOL hovering is not as stable as a sniping situation. And I'd assume it's still the player's Edge - it's a representation of the character being lucky.
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I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
The rule in question is newer then Desert Strike, so it can't follow it as it didn't exist back then, personally i would house rule that it does(well i would just house rule the whole rule away more likely, but if not that then atleast this)
And guys it's quite unfair to claim snipers as superior based on them being SA, when there are a bunch of SA assault cannons too.
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hm. Then the drone creates a plenty of those situations while on the way to a sniping position. At least it does not dis- and reassamble the rifle on transit.
Only when firing. You don't damage the rifle by running around, you damage it by using it while running around.
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If it's maneuvering during the firefight, most likely - the flying equivalent of "a sniping situation" is probably "hovering in place", though, so I figure it can still fire while airborne without problems as long as it doesn't have to dodge attacks or do anything beyond rotating to aim.
Not sure what to use for the Edge test if the drone's operating autonomously, though: System, perhaps?
VTOL hovering is not as stable as a sniping situation.And I'd assume it's still the player's Edge - it's a representation of the character being lucky.
I see hovering in one place as closer to a standing sniper than to a moving firefight, but I guess it's up to the GM whether they want to be nitpicky.
Also, I think you misunderstood me on the Edge test - I'm talking about a drone that's operating autonomously, which means there's no player controlling it (beyond a "shoot THIS mother****er" instruction). Whose Edge would you use, then? The person that gave the instructions? The drone's designer? The person who installed the Targeting software?
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If it's maneuvering during the firefight, most likely - the flying equivalent of "a sniping situation" is probably "hovering in place", though, so I figure it can still fire while airborne without problems as long as it doesn't have to dodge attacks or do anything beyond rotating to aim.
Not sure what to use for the Edge test if the drone's operating autonomously, though: System, perhaps?
VTOL hovering is not as stable as a sniping situation.And I'd assume it's still the player's Edge - it's a representation of the character being lucky.
I see hovering in one place as closer to a standing sniper than to a moving firefight, but I guess it's up to the GM whether they want to be nitpicky.
Also, I think you misunderstood me on the Edge test - I'm talking about a drone that's operating autonomously, which means there's no player controlling it (beyond a "shoot THIS mother****er" instruction). Whose Edge would you use, then? The person that gave the instructions? The drone's designer? The person who installed the Targeting software?
I'd say the person it belongs to. And I wouldn't roll for NPCs.
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I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
The rule in question is newer then Desert Strike, so it can't follow it as it didn't exist back then, personally i would house rule that it does(well i would just house rule the whole rule away more likely, but if not that then atleast this)
And guys it's quite unfair to claim snipers as superior based on them being SA, when there are a bunch of SA assault cannons too.
actually, Max, I copied all the assault cannons from sr4a and Arsenal into this post (the 2 books 90% of people have) and ALL the assault cannons listed in those books were single shot. The SOLE exception was the thunderstuck.
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actually, Max, I copied all the assault cannons from sr4a and Arsenal into this post (the 2 books 90% of people have) and ALL the assault cannons listed in those books were single shot. The SOLE exception was the thunderstuck.
Gun Heaven pdf:s add 3 more assault cannons 2 of witch are SA.
And its funny that you intentionally leave out thundertruck from comparison because it beats all sniper rifles six ways to Sunday.
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It is also loud, bulky, requires a bulky backpack to go with it, and asks everyone and their brother to hit you with the hardest things they got. Meanwhile, a sniper rifle can be silenced, can load different ammo types according to what threats you're facing, is easier to move around, is lighter, and doesn't draw down the heavy artillery like using a fragging cannon does. You'll note that in at least one of those SA assault cannon entries, they mentioned that having the thing might have helped them in the short run, but it made the unfortunate person carrying it into one big target.
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requires a bulky backpack to go with it.
What does?
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I think he's talking about the power requirements. Admittedly you can go with the smaller hip power pack or even a clip, but you're going to be doubling up on the reloading.
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I think he's talking about the power requirements. Admittedly you can go with the smaller hip power pack or even a clip, but you're going to be doubling up on the reloading.
The basic energy clip is good for 10 shots and the canteen sized satchel battery is good for 30, if you need more then 30 shots from a gauss rifle your fucked up so bad it that no amopunt of ammo is gonna save you ;)
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Sure I can see the point, but it does essentially double up on your reloading and ammunition requirements. The batteries themselves are reusable, but they aren't cheap and they require time to recharge.
As for using more than 30 shots. I can see it happening easily in a longer-duration mission, say in a situation where you're in a feral city like Chicago or some african hell hole. A SnD mission where you're sweeping out animalistic/pest creatures like feral ghouls. A wilderness adventure where you can't easily find a place to recharge so you have to bring all your ammunition and battery packs with you.
They're certainly not the standard, but then again running into a situation where you want err need to use an assault cannon isn't either. Well not unless you're in an overblown neon pink spiky mohawk campaign, in which case hells yes you can blow through more than 30 shots.
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I think he's talking about the power requirements. Admittedly you can go with the smaller hip power pack or even a clip, but you're going to be doubling up on the reloading.
The basic energy clip is good for 10 shots and the canteen sized satchel battery is good for 30, if you need more then 30 shots from a gauss rifle your fucked up so bad it that no amopunt of ammo is gonna save you ;)
And that's what separates the 'good' from the 'dead'. Always prepare for Plan D (as in "Destroy Everything"). Even (ESPECIALLY) if you are a Black Trenchcoat team.
Also, the part about 'quiet' still stands. First part about not getting caught? Don't let people see you. Thunderstruck gives off a nice big neon sign that says "Please target Grenades/Spells/Heavy Weapons fire here!"
Third thing, using a rifle may get someone pissed at you. Using artillery? That's going to have people VERY interested in finding you, either to get revenge (or a reward) due to your last job, or to get their hands on your toys for less than market value.
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I'd put it as separating the paranoid from the dead, but then again that's the same as saying the dead from everyone else.
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It is also loud, bulky, requires a bulky backpack to go with it, and asks everyone and their brother to hit you with the hardest things they got. Meanwhile, a sniper rifle can be silenced, can load different ammo types according to what threats you're facing, is easier to move around, is lighter, and doesn't draw down the heavy artillery like using a fragging cannon does. You'll note that in at least one of those SA assault cannon entries, they mentioned that having the thing might have helped them in the short run, but it made the unfortunate person carrying it into one big target.
All true, but Rule Of Cool says I can play AC/DC every time I break out the gauss rifle.
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Funny. My Ork cybersam's theme song is by ACDC, but it's not Thunderstruck.
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They're certainly not the standard, but then again running into a situation where you want err need to use an assault cannon isn't either. Well not unless you're in an overblown neon pink spiky mohawk campaign, in which case hells yes you can blow through more than 30 shots.
Just as common as situation where you need heavy sniper rifle like the Barret, witch is quite appropriate as we're talking about using Assault cannon as sniper instead of a sniper rifle, move that allows one to replace longarms skill with the more generally usefull heavy weapons skill.
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I'll be honest, none of my characters actually use longarms except an aging Russian rigger who has a bit of shotgun for stylistic reasons.
In a similar vein none of my characters except for my detective/cybersam has heavy weapons, and he only has r1+spec on the off chance he ever needs to lob some grenades with his Alpha (hasn't actually happened yet).
As far as sniping with an assault cannon goes, unless they're suppressable I don't see it as terribly practical. It's less sniping and more just shooting someone at great range. If you're talking about actual stealthy sniping then yea your sniper rifle is a pretty good choice.
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Yeah, I run a hacker with an Ogrehammer. But he literally just perched and goes full VR, with a camera used to keep an eye on his shoes, and only pulls the trigger to stop cars or start creating chaos. Nothing stops a corpsec team chasing your fellow runners like a couple of Assault Cannon rounds piercing the side of the building and making them think they are under assault. Of course, it's a bitch to move but that's why spirits of air from the Mage help. They can take the rifle, I'll take to the sewers.
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Yeah, I run a hacker with an Ogrehammer. But he literally just perched and goes full VR, with a camera used to keep an eye on his shoes, and only pulls the trigger to stop cars or start creating chaos. Nothing stops a corpsec team chasing your fellow runners like a couple of Assault Cannon rounds piercing the side of the building and making them think they are under assault. Of course, it's a bitch to move but that's why spirits of air from the Mage help. They can take the rifle, I'll take to the sewers.
How's that build working for you, i had an idea to do that same build the moment i read the ogre hammer entry.
SA assault cannon and 6666 commlink for one resricted gear quality is just a sweet bargain. 8)
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Pretty well. He is spread a little thin honestly for min/maxers or munchkins but he ain't no slouch. If call him an average hacker and average sniper.
Overall the team he ran with preferred the "Hiccup the system" method rather than a full on hostile takeover. Knowing that I didn't have to over focus to deal with major corporations' systems other than making them spazz occasionally meant I could make a rounder build. But so long as your perch is properly fortified (Grenades, cameras, drone, etc) you're safe as can be.
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actually, Max, I copied all the assault cannons from sr4a and Arsenal into this post (the 2 books 90% of people have) and ALL the assault cannons listed in those books were single shot. The SOLE exception was the thunderstuck.
Gun Heaven pdf:s add 3 more assault cannons 2 of witch are SA.
And its funny that you intentionally leave out thundertruck from comparison because it beats all sniper rifles six ways to Sunday.
Actually Max, as I said in the original post "ASIDE FROM THE THUNDERSTRUCK.....".....
And I don't own the gun heaven PDF files so I couldn't list anything from there :p
(on my phone or I would just cut and paste for you Max)
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Drawing the fire can be a good thing, as the character with the assault cannon probably has the armour to cope with the incoming fire much better. So I call that a positive.
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Drawing the fire can be a good thing, as the character with the assault cannon probably has the armour to cope with the incoming fire much better. So I call that a positive.
Armor means little when a mage sends in a spirit with the Accident power. Or the heavy weapons guy does a long burst of grenades into the room you're using as a perch. Overlapping grenade rules + Chunky Salsa + White Phosphorous Grenades = Fun. Hell, even overlapping flashbangs will hurt like hell.
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Have the gnome modify it with a pogo stick attachment.
I thought the Desert Strike would follow that rule too, but I was wrong. You'd think a sniper system made for harsh conditions would be durable to jostling as well.
Zomby-ing this point a bit, bu it's something that's come to my attention recently, and wanted to say my piece.
The last errata I've seen for Arsenal came out before the anniversary corebook made this (bad/pointless) change, so there's no reason to think another military rifle like the Desert Strike (or the M121, for that matter!) would be built just as well.
Really, the two snipers in the corebook represent the two main stereotypes of a sniper: the mysterious assassin in the bell tower, calmly putting his gun together from it's nondescript briefcase while his target gives a speech (SM-4), and the expert combat marksman, taking out enemy baddies from great distances while right alongside his fellow soldiers (MA-2100).
Frankly, I think it made a WHOLE lot more sense when the Ranger Arms SM-4 had the whole "made of tinfoil" problem as a specific drawback to being able to be taken apart and put in a briefcase.
If you plan on keeping with the anniversary rules, I'd recommend modifying them so that the -1 is non-cumulative, and only applies to extreme range targets (if an assault rifle's sights can stay lined up out to 500m through a running firefight, so can a sniper rifle's). I also see no problem with ruling that the Desert Strike and M121 from arsenal are built just as ruggedly as the MA-2100.
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My group just says that the "Melee Hardening" mod eliminates the sniper rifle's delicacy problem.
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My group just says that the "Melee Hardening" mod eliminates the sniper rifle's delicacy problem.
That works, too; could rule that the MA-2100 comes with Melee Hardening standard (and the MA-4 comes with improved breakdown 1)
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Those are some really good points valavaern, you said what I was trying to say better than I did.