Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: DamienHollow on <06-16-13/0538:15>
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Okay, so... Using the three pre-gen characters (A hacker, and Street Samurai, and Shaman) I GMed the first SR5 game of my life and can't say there were too many hitches. The Accuracy limits didn't get in the way, hacking was made a little smoother with the new Marks system (even though there wasn't much to hack on this run,) and I learned the Industrial Pick'l (tm) Slicer is a nasty thing to get caught in (15P damage and in our case most certainly invoked the chunky salsa rule.) I'm still a little nervous about character generation as I am not fond of the priority system but that's not even mentioned in the quick start.
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Where can we get a copy of the SR5 quick start rules?
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I was handed them in magazine form because I volunteered to run the game. I suppose There wouldn't be anything wrong with posting them on the forums. I wait till tomorrow just in case. If no one's filed a cease and desist order by then I'll put them up. Besides, I'm too tired to start scanning them now.
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That would be greatly appreciated.
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I was handed them in magazine form because I volunteered to run the game. I suppose There wouldn't be anything wrong with posting them on the forums. I wait till tomorrow just in case. If no one's filed a cease and desist order by then I'll put them up. Besides, I'm too tired to start scanning them now.
They probably don't want them out...I mean, a) they haven't been released anywhere yet and b) they haven't released
the PDF of the rules. It seems to me that they are wanting to keep as close a lid on anything related to the actual rules
other then what they preview until, probably, GenCon. (I really hope I am wrong on that, though. I wish they
would release stuff into the electronic wild already!)
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They probably don't want them out...I mean, a) they haven't been released anywhere yet and b) they haven't released
the PDF of the rules. It seems to me that they are wanting to keep as close a lid on anything related to the actual rules
other then what they preview until, probably, GenCon. (I really hope I am wrong on that, though. I wish they
would release stuff into the electronic wild already!)
Actually, this is incorrect; I picked up a copy of the SR5 quick start rules at my LGS yesterday morning, as part of Free RPG Day (which also included the MechWarrior quick start rules; thank you for that!). Still, I would try to get some ok, either via the forums here or by email, that it would be ok to post them. Copyright and all that.
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The PDF is coming soon for the quick-start rules. For reasons I don't understand, they've never actually released the QSR on Free RPG Day. But they'll be up shortly.
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The PDF is coming soon for the quick-start rules. For reasons I don't understand, they've never actually released the QSR on Free RPG Day. But they'll be up shortly.
Catalyst Game Labs is an imprint of InMediaRes Productions, LLC, which specializes in electronic publishing of professional fiction. This allows Catalyst to participate in a synergy that melds printed gaming material and fiction with all the benefits of electronic interfaces and online communities, creating a whole-package experience for any type of player or reader.
Oh the irony...
The way i sse it: they suck big time in communication..it still boggles the mind why they are choosingto release a book prior to a pdf, and only to a happy few at that...awful!!!
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The Accuracy limits didn't get in the way
So, they're a useless addition?
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The Accuracy limits didn't get in the way
So, they're a useless addition?
That's a rather huge and unjustified leap of logic.
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The Accuracy limits didn't get in the way
So, they're a useless addition?
That's a rather huge and unjustified leap of logic.
Or that rather could be pretty accurate, depending on what you consider logic.;)
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Oh the irony...
The way i sse it: they suck big time in communication..it still boggles the mind why they are choosingto release a book prior to a pdf, and only to a happy few at that...awful!!!
Well, given that the goal of Free RPG Day is to get people into local game stores, not too strange. Pretty sure that Paizo does the same thing...only releasing the PDF after the event. Of course, Paizo does tell you this well in advance... ;)
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The accuracy rules came into play for the Combat Adept using their gun once when I ran the QSR. The things most people had heard of (attribute limits, accuracy rating, etc) were not problematic. Because these were quick-start characters, I would assume they were built kinda poorly (they always are) and so it's no surprise people weren't hitting their caps immediately with fresh characters.
The changes to the matrix are probably the first time I have ever greatly appreciated a simplification in a PnP RPG. Hacking + Logic role with your Cyberdeck's rating as the cap. The pregen hacker's was Rating 5 and from a couple of lucky rolls, he hit that cap twice during play. The general hacking action is "Compex action, roll those dice, and if you get more hits than the target's Device Rating, you gain a Mark. What you have access to depends on how many marks you have on said target."
One mark was enough to do things like Edit or crack into hidden data, while 2 was enough to do Simple Actions (still requiring a Complex on your part) and 3 was prettymuch full control. The issue was, the Quickstart Rules didn't explain what programs do. It says "For the scope of this adventure, you only need to know Exploit, which gives a +2 on Hacking attempts to gain a Mark, and Fork, which lets you hack into two targets at once."
...Except the hacker has Exploit Rating 4 (what's the rating mean?), didn't have Fork, and instead had Command, Browse and one other I don't recall. This is a failure on the quickstart's part though, nothing to do with the new edition itself. Programs are supposed to be small specializations to your Cyberdeck more or less, and there's a limit to the number you can have installed.
Magic didn't have any change. Though the quickstart guide says that the Force is equal to the caster's Magic rating, the actual rules summary describes it normally. The quickstart rules themselves though failed entirely to mention Drain (thank god the guy playing the magician played on in 4th) and no where did it actually say what any of his spells did beyond the one-sentence description on his character sheet. Didn't explain anything with Conjuration either, despite that being there too.
Melee had a huge buff. How? Well, even firing in SA mode is a Complex now. Oh, and not to mention you no longer half your strength for melee. As in, the Ork Street Samurai had a sword that did 10P without any strength augmentations. I liked this, as his melee capabilities were quite relevant.
On the other hand, armor in general got a boost. There was no longer a difference between Ballistic and Impact armor, and things like Armor Jacket just gave 12 armor. If there was a cap based on a character's attributes, it wasn't mentioned anywhere. Most of the enemies in the Food Fight mod had Actioneer Business Clothes for 10 armor as well.
To recap, melee got a boost, armor got simplified, hacking got MONDO simplified (thank the lord) and your attributes are now relevant (another plus that had the hacker in my playgroup squealing), and the success limits were not as imposing as they seemed.
I liked the things I could actually identify as Edition-based changes (as opposed to the Quick Start Rules being lazy or incomplete) but I can't really make a judgement on it yet simply because of all the things the QSR totally left out.
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I think the one issue I see is that unless there are some affordable/obtainable high level cyber decks then limiting the hackers dice to 6 (the usual rating cap on most affordable gear in SR4) may result in A) systems that are just too tough to reliably hack or B) universally low device ratings (try hacking a drone upgraded to a 5 when you're throwing 5 dice on a test that isn't extended.) I am a little annoyed they turned semi-automatic fire into a complex, but this is more of an "awe... i can't hit the guy with a dart load of Zero before following it with (insert drug of choice here)" or being able to take Aim and shoot in the same turn than truly detrimental to the game. Especially seeing as how having only 1 int pass is a rarity.
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I think the one issue I see is that unless there are some affordable/obtainable high level cyber decks then limiting the hackers dice to 6 (the usual rating cap on most affordable gear in SR4) may result in A) systems that are just too tough to reliably hack or B) universally low device ratings (try hacking a drone upgraded to a 5 when you're throwing 5 dice on a test that isn't extended.) I am a little annoyed they turned semi-automatic fire into a complex, but this is more of an "awe... i can't hit the guy with a dart load of Zero before following it with (insert drug of choice here)" or being able to take Aim and shoot in the same turn than truly detrimental to the game. Especially seeing as how having only 1 int pass is a rarity.
Where do you get rolling 5 dice on a Hacking + Logic roll?
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Thanks for the insights.
Maybe 5 dice rolled is wrong but he has a point, if device rating is superior to cyberdeck rating, you need edge.
Which means you can't hack a good system because if I understood well, you have to roll for each action
with these having a final threshold of system rating + mark needed, if I am right.
So, while
target system rating + max mark needed < deck rating, you can do whatever you want pretty easily,
once system rating + mark needed=> deck rating, that means that at least the most difficult actions are prohibited if you
haven't edge available.
While I guess that number of actions needed to progress into a system will be inferior for matter of simplification,
I feel that if there are really no extended tests, Deckers' life is not gonna be so heroic and full of blaze.
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I think the one issue I see is that unless there are some affordable/obtainable high level cyber decks then limiting the hackers dice to 6 (the usual rating cap on most affordable gear in SR4) may result in A) systems that are just too tough to reliably hack or B) universally low device ratings (try hacking a drone upgraded to a 5 when you're throwing 5 dice on a test that isn't extended.) I am a little annoyed they turned semi-automatic fire into a complex, but this is more of an "awe... i can't hit the guy with a dart load of Zero before following it with (insert drug of choice here)" or being able to take Aim and shoot in the same turn than truly detrimental to the game. Especially seeing as how having only 1 int pass is a rarity.
... Sorry, but were you actually using limts as dice pool caps? Because that's not what they are - they cap your hits.
Also, I'm pretty sure QSR hacking limits were simplified, because according to one of Hardy's blog comment replies, the limit there is deck attributes. Might be they wanted to leave that matter of 4 Limits on one piece of gear and issues of Attribute Swapping out of it.
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To hack a device you need marks, You can have up to four marks. each mark gives you more privileges (administrator privileges at four.) To get marks you hack a device rolling logic+Hacking with a hit limit equal to your cyber-deck and it is not a extended test. I can start a game with drone Response, Signal, and Sensors at 5 (Pilot 4 or 5 depending on if I take restricted gear) without any trouble at all (ergo, "Device 5.") The highest I expect the Cyber decks to be at chargen would be 6, though quite a bit of gear in this game hits 12 availability at rating 3. If this is the case then the hacker is going to be desperate for better gear which may prove problematic if you follow the acquisition guidelines and don;t have a GM who just let's you pick up mil-spec tech at the corner drug store. Hell of a roll to make if you have a deck rating 5. Even with 6 Logic, Six Hacking, and 2 from a specialization your throwing 14 dice averaging 4-5 hits. So you have just under a 50% chance of succeeding and not just blowing a complex action.
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Is there a way to get more then one Mark at a time?
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Not that they've said...
Mark 1: Crack/Edit Files (requires a complex action to get the mark then a complex action to Crack the File)
Mark 2: Control a Smartgun (Requires a simple action to eject the clip or make the gun fire and a Hacking+logic [cyber deck limit] test vs device rating)
Mark 3: Crashing the Device (Requires a Hacking+Logic [Cyberdeck] vs 2x device rating)
You can now run silent as a simple action imparting a -2 to all actions but they don't say what this does for you other than make you harder to spot (no number given)
You can also fight with other hackers to kick their marks using the same check as everything else.
Oh! yes, tests followed by brackets [Cyberdeck], the brackets are the limit or what limits you.
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So,unless someone who has the book can say otherwise, it looks like it still takes three IP to eject the clip from the smartgun (2 hacks to get 2 marks, then the 3rd turn to eject the clip), while in 4th, you could perhaps pull it off in three with detect the node,
quick hack on the fly complex action, followed by a Spoof.
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Given how the dodgepools are up and we're down to 1 attack per IP, that makes them more viable than in SR4. My predictions are easy fights will last about 1 CT rather than 1 IP, and tough fights are up to 3 CT. Of course if the enemy hacker manages to get his marks before the fight starts...
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Thanks for the rundown Firebug. Now I want to play a decker, so I can relive my days throwing forks in Magic the Gathering.
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So,unless someone who has the book can say otherwise, it looks like it still takes three IP to eject the clip from the smartgun (2 hacks to get 2 marks, then the 3rd turn to eject the clip), while in 4th, you could perhaps pull it off in three with detect the node,
quick hack on the fly complex action, followed by a Spoof.
Keep in mind the Quickstart rules are... incomplete.
How many marks you need depends on the action. For this, you need the Control Device test. To perform actions with Control Device, you need marks equal to the complexity of the action, i.e. 1=Free, 2=Simple, 3=Complex. It's a Free Action to eject the clip on a smartgun, so it's 1 Mark for that.
Marking is a Complex Action, but you can try and place more than one mark at a time. YOu can take a -4 Dice Pool penalty to place two marks at once, a a -10 to place 3. Obviously, only the best of the best will be trying that last one.
The Matrix Actions list tells you exactly how many marks you need to perform each action, though sometimes there are bonuses to having more marks than needed. You also do extra damage to targets you have marks on.
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So,unless someone who has the book can say otherwise, it looks like it still takes three IP to eject the clip from the smartgun (2 hacks to get 2 marks, then the 3rd turn to eject the clip), while in 4th, you could perhaps pull it off in three with detect the node,
quick hack on the fly complex action, followed by a Spoof.
Keep in mind the Quickstart rules are... incomplete.
How many marks you need depends on the action. For this, you need the Control Device test. To perform actions with Control Device, you need marks equal to the complexity of the action, i.e. 1=Free, 2=Simple, 3=Complex. It's a Free Action to eject the clip on a smartgun, so it's 1 Mark for that.
Marking is a Complex Action, but you can try and place more than one mark at a time. YOu can take a -4 Dice Pool penalty to place two marks at once, a a -10 to place 3. Obviously, only the best of the best will be trying that last one.
The Matrix Actions list tells you exactly how many marks you need to perform each action, though sometimes there are bonuses to having more marks than needed. You also do extra damage to targets you have marks on.
Out of curiosity what would be the device rating of a smartgun link?
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SR 4 would put them between 3 and 5 somewhere between personal gear and military tech. This is assuming the moron is dumb enough not to wire or skin-link which would render the hacker SOL. Seriously, cyber-ware, smart-guns, vehicles... they ain't a hackers forte if the owners smarter than a street thug. Drones are still going to be prey but considering my drones usually start at rating 4 or five (I almost never have an unimproved drone unless I intend to burn it.) Security systems are up in the air.
I remember there being some discussion on making the hacker skill set more "combat" effective. Unless I've missed something I don't see much improvement in these respects (Although combat slowed down a little, sort of... most people will have multiple IP's but it takes twice as long to shoot a gun. Take it how you will.)
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Simple, common, and public items have a Device Rating of 1 (Appliances, public transit, etc).
Average items have a DR of 2 (Guns, cyberware, vehicles, drones, etc)
Security and corporate items, plus Alphaware have a DR of 3.
Military, Betaware and other high end devices have a DR of 4.
Cutting edge devices like credsticks, deltaware and black ops vehicles have a DR of 5.
Really top end stuff has a DR of 6.
This is just the default rating though. It can be beefed up by linking it through your commlink and PAN. A Transys Avalon is a DR6 and only costs 5,000¥.
Bull
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So 5th has taken the SR4 ratings and knocked them down by one across the board? At least that's how it looks compared to my copy of SR4 core.
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Bull, please, am I right about rules mechanic in the following:
if device rating is superior to cyberdeck rating, you need edge. Which means you can't hack a good system because if I understood well, you have to roll for each action with these having a final threshold of system rating + mark needed, if I am right.
So, while target system rating + max mark needed < deck rating, you can do whatever you want pretty easily,
once system rating + mark needed=> deck rating, that means that at least the most difficult actions are prohibited if you
haven't edge available.
Thanks
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Since we have a release date for the PDF of the 5th ed rule book, do we have a release date for the 5th ed Quickstart PDF?
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Since we have a release date for the PDF of the 5th ed rule book, do we have a release date for the 5th ed Quickstart PDF?
I don't think they are going to release it. I hope CGL proves me wrong, but..I do not think it is going to be released until
after the release. Then again, it might be in the Intro Boxed set, so they don't want to release it...