Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Reiper on <06-17-13/2101:15>
-
I may have missed it in the thread that opened a few weeks ago, but since we now have some books and looks like the NDA is up, just a quick question.
Did they go with the priority build system, BP, Karma, or a new system, or did they allow for different systems to be used?
And if it is the priority system, how harsh is it? (was always one of my least favorite ones but I could make it work)
-
If you go to DrivethruRPG.com, you can get downloads of samples from the 5th Ed Rulebook (there's currently four out, that I know of). One of those (the second or third free preview) shows that they are using a priority system, but it is different from those used in the past. Alternate character generation methods will be available in the Run Faster book (5th Ed's player's companion).
-
If you go to DrivethruRPG.com, you can get downloads of samples from the 5th Ed Rulebook (there's currently four out, that I know of). One of those (the second or third free preview) shows that they are using a priority system, but it is different from those used in the past. Alternate character generation methods will be available in the Run Faster book (5th Ed's player's companion).
Thanks, will check that out when I get home.
-
It's a priority system, but with greater granularity in the Metatype and Magic categories.
Each Priority in Metatype not only lists what metatypes you can use at the Priority level, but how many Special Attribute points you get to spend on Edge, Magic, and Resonance. For example, You can play as Human at any Priority level, but picking E gives you only one Special Attribute Point, where D gives you three, and so on.
Likewise, the higher Priority levels in Magic not only unlock different Magic/Technomancer options, but also determine how many bonus attributes, skills and spells you get. For example Priority A Magicians get a free Magic rating of 6, two free Rating 5 magical skills, and ten free spells, whereas Priority B only gives you Magic 4, two R4 skills, and seven free spells.
Afterwards, you get from 25 to 50 Karma Points to spend on rounding out your character.
So the answer to if they went with a Priority or Karma or Build Point system, the answer is "Yes". At the same time.
-k
-
It's a priority system, but with greater granularity in the Metatype and Magic categories.
Each Priority in Metatype not only lists what metatypes you can use at the Priority level, but how many Special Attribute points you get to spend on Edge, Magic, and Resonance. For example, You can play as Human at any Priority level, but picking E gives you only one Special Attribute Point, where D gives you three, and so on.
Likewise, the higher Priority levels in Magic not only unlock different Magic/Technomancer options, but also determine how many bonus attributes, skills and spells you get. For example Priority A Magicians get a free Magic rating of 6, two free Rating 5 magical skills, and ten free spells, whereas Priority B only gives you Magic 4, two R4 skills, and seven free spells.
Afterwards, you get from 25 to 50 Karma Points to spend on rounding out your character.
So the answer to if they went with a Priority or Karma or Build Point system, the answer is "Yes". At the same time.
-k
I actually like that. I wasn't a huge fan of the priority system but this seems to be a nice change, and should make chargen much more streamlined (don't have to do tons of extra math).
-
So, for those who have the book(you lucky people):
Can one use the Freebie Karma to buy the various magical qualities(Magician, Adept, etc) and buy up magic?
Or are those only available through the Magic Priority?(I would expect if it is possible, they are not going to
be as good, as they would likely have to buy magic and skills and spells with their Freebie Karma, so have
much less to spend on other things, and get much less then by taking the priority..but I am wondering if
it is possible, not if it is optimal).
-
This is from the freebie. You also get some Karma in the end to finish things off of, so you can probably up your magic a bit more if needed. But if you don't choose your magic/resonence priority other than E, then you can't pick it up. Forgive the bad formatting, its a copy and paste with me trying to fix it where I can.
PRIORITY TABLE
PRIORITY METATYPE ATTRIBUTES MAGIC OR RESONANCE SKILLS RESOURCES
A Human (9) 24 Magician or Mystic Adept: Magic 6, two Rating 5 46/10 450,000¥
Elf (8) Magical skills, 10 spells
Dwarf (7) Technomancer: Resonance 6, two Rating 5 Resonance
Ork (7) skills, 5 complex forms
Troll (5)
B Human (7) 20 Magician or Mystic Adept: Magic 4, two Rating 4 36/5 275,000¥
Elf (6) Magical skills, 7 spells
Dwarf (4) Technomancer: Resonance 4, two Rating 4 Resonance
Ork (4) skills, 2 complex forms
Troll (0) Adept: Magic 6, one Rating 4 Active skill
Aspected Magician: Magic 5, one Rating 4 Magical skill
group
C Human (5) 16 Magician or Mystic Adept: Magic 3, 5 spells 28/2 140,000¥
Elf (3) Technomancer: Resonance 3, 1 complex form
Dwarf (1) Adept: Magic 4, one Rating 2 Active skill
Ork (0) Aspected Magician: Magic 3, one Rating 2 Magical skill
group
D Human (3) 14 Adept: Magic 2 22/0 50,000¥
Elf (0) Aspected Magician: Magic 2
14
E Human (1) 12 — 18/0 6,000¥
The number in the ( ) after the metatype is points for your special attributes (Magic/Resonance/Edge, so my understanding is you can do a B technomancer, C Elf and still have 6 resonance if you wanted to do that instead of just doing an A priority on TM. Or you can put that towards edge of course too.
I do have one quick question to anyone more familiar than I am on this. on skills, the first number I assume is skill points, what is the second number? I assumed it to be knowledge skills but it doesn't seem right having 0 knowledge points on D and E but I could always karma buy that.
-
Isn't it for group skills ?
-
The going guess is indeed group skills, no confirmation though.
-
It was confirmed when I asked that question the first day. Either Bull or Patrick answered that it's skillgroup points.
-
Isn't it for group skills ?
Yes.
-
Magician/Adept is no longer a Quality, so no it can't be purchased at chargen. The best you could do is take Magic D (WHich only gives you a Magic of 2 for Adept or Mystic Adept and no skills or powers) and go from there.
-
That would be strange, considering that one of the example charactes build in the #4 preview is a mystic adept
SR5 basic book p70
Kyra won’t get any free Power Points for adept powers, so she decides to spend some of her Karma now just to keep things organized. Kyra decides to spend 10 Karma from her Karma fund to purchase 5 Power Points. She divides up those Power Points among the listed adept powers (p. 308), giving her a good mix of combat and social abilities.
...
Note that while adepts receive Power Points for free (equal to their Magic rating), mystic adepts do not. Mystic adepts must purchase Power Points using Karma at the cost 2 Karma per full Power Point. The maximum number of Power Points Mystic Adepts may have is equal to their Magic rating. These points would be purchased during Step Seven: Spending Your Left Over Karma (p. 98)
So no, no error, and you have just given mystic adepts almost free 4-6 power points
MfG
-
So I read something suggesting this on dumpshock, can someone confirm just to be sure, can you indeed take any amount of skills and skillgroups (not that you can do that with more than 1) at Rank 6 at chargen?
Because if so, dang that makes that 46/10 interesting. O_O
-
Has anybody an Insight into Character Advancement yet? Is it along the lines of 4th Edition, any major (or minor) changes?
love,
Sunshine
-
So no, no error, and you have just given mystic adepts almost free 4-6 power points
MfG
Almost free? Is this a mostly dead thing?
-
12 karma for Astral Perception + 5 Power Points, and you lose out on Astral Projection. Unless the rest of the rules list differences between Mystic Adept and Magician, that's the difference.
-
So I read something suggesting this on dumpshock, can someone confirm just to be sure, can you indeed take any amount of skills and skillgroups (not that you can do that with more than 1) at Rank 6 at chargen?
Because if so, dang that makes that 46/10 interesting. O_O
I read the same thing there and it seems kind of odd to me. Yeah 46/10 is more interesting but the main thing is on the min/max side due to the karma costs scaling with the skill going all 6s in every skill becomes the cost effective choice. Capping things at 1 6 or 2 5s helped spread skills out a bit. I can totally see now 11 skills at 6, 2 at 1, a group at 6 a group at 4. The problem is when its not sum to 10 what do you put as B, C etc. If a street Sam can you really get by with 16 in attributes?, can you make it with C in reosurces etc. A mage might be able to pull it off as its 2 high stats and the rest at 2, but that is still weird looking IMO.
-
140k in resources is doable. Wired Reflexes, Reaction Enhancers (if you even want those), Muscle Augmentation, Muscle Toner. With magicians we're talking a human with 2 Edge, adepts would have 3. But we need to know whether it's the case first.
-
140k in resources is doable. Wired Reflexes, Reaction Enhancers (if you even want those), Muscle Augmentation, Muscle Toner. With magicians we're talking a human with 2 Edge, adepts would have 3. But we need to know whether it's the case first.
I assume 140k is doable, but I have not seen the nuyen costs for things yet. It is also a more table dependent thing as karma to nuyen rewards seem to vary wildly.
-
Isn't it for group skills ?
Yes.
No, that is incorrect. What you are referring to is the number in column Skills after the /. The number in the METATYPE column between () is not for skill groups.
EDIT: Ignore what I said above. I fail at reading sometimes. /runs for more coffee /facepalm
-
If you are talking the metatpye collum that number is for special attributes, edge, magic, resonance.
-
"The number in the ( ) after the metatype is points for your special attributes (Magic/Resonance/Edge, so my understanding is you can do a B technomancer, C Elf and still have 6 resonance if you wanted to do that instead of just doing an A priority on TM. Or you can put that towards edge of course too."
So could someone do Magic A, which gives a Magic rating of 6, and Race E, which gives you Human (1), then add the 1 to your Magic attribute and have a Magic rating of 7?
-
"The number in the ( ) after the metatype is points for your special attributes (Magic/Resonance/Edge, so my understanding is you can do a B technomancer, C Elf and still have 6 resonance if you wanted to do that instead of just doing an A priority on TM. Or you can put that towards edge of course too."
So could someone do Magic A, which gives a Magic rating of 6, and Race E, which gives you Human (1), then add the 1 to your Magic attribute and have a Magic rating of 7?
If you take exceptional attribute magic yeah I think so, but it kind of depends if there is an order of operations that must be followed and spending karma on qualities comes after spending special attribute points the answer would be no.
-
So when the priories table says 46/10 for skills A, does that mean exactly?
1) 46 skill ranks AND 10 skill group ranks.
2) 46 skill ranks, up to 10 of which can be used for skill groups.
#2 seems much more reasonable.
-
It's #1.
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it. Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes. The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes. Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it. Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes. The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes. Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.
Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it. Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes. The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes. Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.
Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).
I meant comparative to skills. I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough. But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it. Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes. The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes. Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.
Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).
I meant comparative to skills. I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough. But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.
Well, the cost I was giving on skills would be for individual skills. Groups should cost about the same as attributes (at least in 4th), but now that they've gone and them all 3 skills, I could see reducing the multiplier by one using the attribute cost as a base.
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it. Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes. The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes. Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.
Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).
I meant comparative to skills. I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough. But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.
Well, the cost I was giving on skills would be for individual skills. Groups should cost about the same as attributes (at least in 4th), but now that they've gone and them all 3 skills, I could see reducing the multiplier by one using the attribute cost as a base.
Given that there are multiple groups per many attributes why should groups cost the same or near the same. Why would I ever improve my performance group until my charisma is capped when charisma will improve than and another group I want to invest in? I mean yeah if the performance group is like 1 or 2 and my charisma is 7 I might bump it to 3 first but past incompetent at the skill level it would be attributes all the way.
-
While number 2 seems more reasonable to you, the actual answer is number 1. Have fun.
-
It's #1.
Oh this is gunna get interesting. Now I really wanna roll some sort of skills A generalist.
Also, does anyone know how much karma edge will cost at character creation?
I am not sure its a drum or a dead horse but I keep on beating it. Before you do, check the math on making yourself A in attributes. The more attributes needed to cover your skills the better off you are going with attributes. Now if you are taking a multiple huundred karma view of things skills might pan out as attributes are apparently still absurdly cheap.
Umm...no, attributes are not absurdly cheap. Now they were when they were x3 and x2 would definitely be, but x5 is the opposite extreme, making attributes absurdly expensive. Having a cost of x4 would be more appropriate for a decent advancement rate coupled with skills not having a multiplier at all (cost to get the next rank being equal to the rank you're going to).
I meant comparative to skills. I'd be fine with x4 or even maybe x3 if skill costs dropped enough. But when a single skill group costs x5 and a attribute costs x5 there is a cost balance issue.
Well, the cost I was giving on skills would be for individual skills. Groups should cost about the same as attributes (at least in 4th), but now that they've gone and them all 3 skills, I could see reducing the multiplier by one using the attribute cost as a base.
Given that there are multiple groups per many attributes why should groups cost the same or near the same. Why would I ever improve my performance group until my charisma is capped when charisma will improve than and another group I want to invest in? I mean yeah if the performance group is like 1 or 2 and my charisma is 7 I might bump it to 3 first but past incompetent at the skill level it would be attributes all the way.
Remember, in the last post you quoted, I did say that I could see the multiplier being one less for skill groups than attributes with the new stuff.
-
The skill cap is also 12 now. So max is 6 at creation and max 12 without taking a quality. This balances out with limits. Having agi 6 and 12 skill points only goes so far if your gun caps you at a limit of 3. That's the trade off. Starting with high skills lowers your attributes and starting money.
-
Seems like an interesting balancing act. High dicepool low threshold gives consistant results. High threshold low dicepool gives lower results on average but has a chance to spike higher. I assume the best system will be to make sure your average hits matches your threshold, of course.
-
The sensible thing would be to have a threshold a little above your average, allowing you to benefit from lucky shots, use edge and so on.
I have to say that, while not in favour of a threshold, it does seem more logical when you consider the possibility of people running around with massive skill ratings on dump stats.
-
The sensible thing would be to have a threshold a little above your average, allowing you to benefit from lucky shots, use edge and so on.
One of the Edge use options is to blow past success limits.