Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Mad Hamish on <07-12-13/0146:54>
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With the changes in pricing and modifications to the system changing how things work (the new initiative system for a start) what are people seeing as changes in good augments for sams that haven't been previously and what previously good ones have slipped down the pile?
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Wired Reflexes cost a lot more, about double what they did in SR4, with a much smaller return: +D6/Rating instead of Initiative Passes. You can get the same effective bonus as Wired Reflexes I any number of ways. 1D6 will give you on average +3.5 to your initiative score.
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With the wireless bonus, though, you can a character with Reaction and Intuition 6, Reaction Enhancers 4, and WR 3 for and Initiative of 19+4d6, and a base defense of 19. The whole "break augmented max" part makes this combination awesome.
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With the increased effectiveness of melee, Spurs and Hand Blades are less laughable.
I read Bone Lacing as being substantially buffed between the melee damage and armor changes.
With the new aug maximum the Synthcardium gets a slightly larger niche.
The increased cost of Skillwires makes Reflex Recorder more appealing.
The armor change makes Orthoskin and Dermal Plates seem more attractive.
A Sam now really needs a melee option, even if its just taking clubs and hitting people with the butt of his gun.
Just my 2 cents.
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With the wireless bonus, though, you can a character with Reaction and Intuition 6, Reaction Enhancers 4, and WR 3 for and Initiative of 19+4d6, and a base defense of 19. The whole "break augmented max" part makes this combination awesome.
What does that set-up cost in Ess & nuyen?
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With the wireless bonus, though, you can a character with Reaction and Intuition 6, Reaction Enhancers 4, and WR 3 for and Initiative of 19+4d6, and a base defense of 19. The whole "break augmented max" part makes this combination awesome.
What does that set-up cost in Ess & nuyen?
For standard grade it comes to 456,000 nuyen and 5.9 Essence for that. (Can't get Reaction Enhancers to rating 4 either, they are restricted to 3.)
So, in effect, far too much cost for having to tell your brain to take a long walk off a short pier and ignore any and all security considerations in keeping the two implants signed into Facebook to get the bonus.
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So, in effect, far too much cost for having to tell your brain to take a long walk off a short pier and ignore any and all security considerations in keeping the two implants signed into Facebook to get the bonus.
Runner FragDaPolice has entered Joe's Donuts on Main Street 182.
Seattle SWAT Team likes this.
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So, in effect, far too much cost for having to tell your brain to take a long walk off a short pier and ignore any and all security considerations in keeping the two implants signed into Facebook to get the bonus.
Runner FragDaPolice has entered Joe's Donuts on Main Street 182.
Seattle SWAT Team likes this.
Made my day, thanks Bro! ;D
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I thought it was 256k and 5.9 essence for basic grade?
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I thought it was 256k and 5.9 essence for basic grade?
Jeebus. 5.9 ess? good luck walking through a MAD with that lot installed!
looks like combat adept overtook the street sam this edition
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Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers always were expensive. All that happened is that their ware costs increased from 130k to 256k. So not sure why you think they overtook them purely on this example alone, which now allows for one to hit 6+6=12 Reaction rather than 3+6=9 as in SR4.
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not just on that example alone, apologies for lack of context.
with the (somewhat contentious) changes to wifi, all that ware presents a bigger vulnerability than an adept does through his internal magic. with astral perception and a weapon focus, he can actively protect himself that could hurt him, whereas all a street sam can do is hope his firewall holds out or pray that the team's hacker can defend his implants.
The adept qi focuses also give some very nice progression whereas if you've spent 5.9 essence, where does the street sam go from there? he is one datajack away from cyberzombie land.
I'm not moaning at all here, just making an observation based on my (very limited) experience with chargen so far.
In SR4a, a lot of people talked about adepts being underpowered vs street sams, now i think the balance is at least equal if not wieghted in the adept's favour
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Only a Street Sam that depends on wireless bonuses (which rarely any ware really has) has to worry about being hacked. It's plenty easy to make a character lacking that problem. But yeah, you really shouldn't look at the insane case that nobody in SR4 did either as example.
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Don't have book in front of me, but I was under the impression wired reflexes III was off limits at chargen due to availability rating.
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Don't have book in front of me, but I was under the impression wired reflexes III was off limits at chargen due to availability rating.
yup
Wired Reflexes (Rating 1-3)
Rating 1 2 — 8R 39,000¥
Rating 2 3 — 12R 149,000¥
Rating 3 5 — 20R 217,000¥
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There was a section for riggers that talked about deckers vs riggers. The same thing they said applies to this situation. Why be afraid of a decker you could kill with ease? Sure he could brick some cyber you have (which is fixable, fyi), but then you pop a cap in his ass and its all over.
If I were a decker (which I will be soon, muhahaha) I would concentrate my efforts on things like vehicles, security systems, gun platforms, etc. Why would I go through the effort of bricking your gun or ware when you will just pull out another gun? And now you have a new gun and want to kill me. Nah, I'll get some giant crane to drop something on you instead. Much more effective.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn reaction enhancers don't stack with wired reflexes.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn reaction enhancers don't stack with wired reflexes.
They do if the wireless mode is enabled.
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yeah, I went through and reread that, and thought I had edited my post to say 'hey, my mistake' sadly, the edit did not go through.
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There was a section for riggers that talked about deckers vs riggers. The same thing they said applies to this situation. Why be afraid of a decker you could kill with ease? Sure he could brick some cyber you have (which is fixable, fyi), but then you pop a cap in his ass and its all over.
If I were a decker (which I will be soon, muhahaha) I would concentrate my efforts on things like vehicles, security systems, gun platforms, etc. Why would I go through the effort of bricking your gun or ware when you will just pull out another gun? And now you have a new gun and want to kill me. Nah, I'll get some giant crane to drop something on you instead. Much more effective.
Or, assuming their datajack is in their head (it probably is) you brick it, and it sparks and turns to slag in their brain, killing them or turning them special needs.
Fluff describes things as overheating, sparking, ect when theyre bricked. Its a logical extension, though not specifically supported by RAW
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There was a section for riggers that talked about deckers vs riggers. The same thing they said applies to this situation. Why be afraid of a decker you could kill with ease? Sure he could brick some cyber you have (which is fixable, fyi), but then you pop a cap in his ass and its all over.
If I were a decker (which I will be soon, muhahaha) I would concentrate my efforts on things like vehicles, security systems, gun platforms, etc. Why would I go through the effort of bricking your gun or ware when you will just pull out another gun? And now you have a new gun and want to kill me. Nah, I'll get some giant crane to drop something on you instead. Much more effective.
Or, assuming their datajack is in their head (it probably is) you brick it, and it sparks and turns to slag in their brain, killing them or turning them special needs.
Fluff describes things as overheating, sparking, ect when theyre bricked. Its a logical extension, though not specifically supported by RAW
At worst, I'd have a bricked implant deal a small amount of damage - there's some serious game balance implications to it being practical to actually take someone down this way.
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There was a section for riggers that talked about deckers vs riggers. The same thing they said applies to this situation. Why be afraid of a decker you could kill with ease? Sure he could brick some cyber you have (which is fixable, fyi), but then you pop a cap in his ass and its all over.
If I were a decker (which I will be soon, muhahaha) I would concentrate my efforts on things like vehicles, security systems, gun platforms, etc. Why would I go through the effort of bricking your gun or ware when you will just pull out another gun? And now you have a new gun and want to kill me. Nah, I'll get some giant crane to drop something on you instead. Much more effective.
Or, assuming their datajack is in their head (it probably is) you brick it, and it sparks and turns to slag in their brain, killing them or turning them special needs.
Fluff describes things as overheating, sparking, ect when theyre bricked. Its a logical extension, though not specifically supported by RAW
At worst, I'd have a bricked implant deal a small amount of damage - there's some serious game balance implications to it being practical to actually take someone down this way.
Well we already know they can make your grenades explode if their wireless is on. It doesnt seem *that* much different to me that killing you by makin your datajack melt in your skull.
But Ill admit, the damage it would di is highly debatable.
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At this point datajacks are pretty mature technology, I'd bet they are designed to brick themselves rather than fry the brain. Note that all of the descriptions of sparking etc are on the external housing side.
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^ this. datajack bricked issues a bit of smoke and sparks on the outside but the user's brain takes no damage. Too OP otherwise.
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There was a section for riggers that talked about deckers vs riggers. The same thing they said applies to this situation. Why be afraid of a decker you could kill with ease? Sure he could brick some cyber you have (which is fixable, fyi), but then you pop a cap in his ass and its all over.
If I were a decker (which I will be soon, muhahaha) I would concentrate my efforts on things like vehicles, security systems, gun platforms, etc. Why would I go through the effort of bricking your gun or ware when you will just pull out another gun? And now you have a new gun and want to kill me. Nah, I'll get some giant crane to drop something on you instead. Much more effective.
Or, assuming their datajack is in their head (it probably is) you brick it, and it sparks and turns to slag in their brain, killing them or turning them special needs.
Fluff describes things as overheating, sparking, ect when theyre bricked. Its a logical extension, though not specifically supported by RAW
At worst, I'd have a bricked implant deal a small amount of damage - there's some serious game balance implications to it being practical to actually take someone down this way.
Well we already know they can make your grenades explode if their wireless is on. It doesnt seem *that* much different to me that killing you by makin your datajack melt in your skull.
That requires that they have the grenade's wireless on for long enough for the hacker to get 1 Complex and 1 Free action in. That's a fair bit different from potentially requiring only one data spike.
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Implanted commlinks and wired reflexes with wireless on are a bit of a bad idea then. Paralyzed or dead... Think I'll stick with my adept :-)
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Paralyzed requires some writing between the lines.
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You do know it only take a simple toolkit (500¥) and one single hit on a Hardware + Logic [Mental] test to restore full functionality in a bricked device, right?
If you don't have Hardware skill you can even default.
Defaulting Attribute for Hardware is Logic
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You do know it only take a simple toolkit (500¥) and one single hit on a Hardware + Logic [Mental] test to restore full functionality in a bricked device, right?
If you don't have Hardware skill you can even default.
Defaulting Attribute for Hardware is Logic
Can a hardware check be used to fix my brain when my datajack explodes, or fix my fried nervous system when my Wired Reflexes go haywire? :P
Thats not even getting to the fact that I have to be gut open to even *get* to the Wired Reflexes.
This stuff really wasnt throught through.
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Where did you see that either of those things happen? I mean as a GM you could house rule that sort of thing for cyberware, but nowhere in the book that I can see does it say that hacking cyber can have any negative effects beyond negating the cyber.
Specifically the datajack thing is REALLY silly (It's a 50 year old technology why would you leave that in) and Wired can be turned off just fine without paralysis.
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Despite the rules stating that the effected hardware melts into unusable slag, or releases all the magic smoke, or sparks and fizzles, the game mechanics make no mention of what happens to the end user and the authors have stated that a bricked cybernetic implant continues to provide all the functionality of the original organs it replaced.
Bricked cybereyes still let you see, bricked wired reflexes still let you move. Neither requires any sort of surgery to repair. Somehow, a basic Hardware test allows you to repair a piece of equipment that is completely inside the bounds of your corporeal body, because requiring surgery wound go even further to discourage leaving anything wireless accessible by driving the Risk/Reward curve even further out of whack.
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I suspect for a lot of that stuff "bricking" (and as far as I can tell "Magic Smoke," sparks and slag aren't major parts of the rules text) actually just trips the protocols designed to keep the implants from harming the user. So fooling the datajack to shut itself down because it thinks it's causing damage etc. Sort of the equivalent of tripping a circuit breaker.
Since one of the advantages of wireless access to cyberware is supposed to be being able to access the cyberwear "brain" for maintenance without surgery, being able to reset that kind of non physical damage seems reasonable to me.
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This does bring out one of my pet peeves about SR5. I hate that the game mechanics are written in the same narrative voice as the background sections. The things that are game mechanics should be in separate subsections to avoid confusion, though I recall seeing that it was done that way on purpose. Fuck it I know why.
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I suspect for a lot of that stuff "bricking" (and as far as I can tell "Magic Smoke," sparks and slag aren't major parts of the rules text) actually just trips the protocols designed to keep the implants from harming the user. So fooling the datajack to shut itself down because it thinks it's causing damage etc. Sort of the equivalent of tripping a circuit breaker.
Since one of the advantages of wireless access to cyberware is supposed to be being able to access the cyberwear "brain" for maintenance without surgery, being able to reset that kind of non physical damage seems reasonable to me.
Protocols and non physical damage sound more like software than hardware to me.
As far as this being a 50 year old technology, its also been immune to hacking until fairly recently. And why should he corps fix the issue? Theyll blame it on the hackers and use it as another excuse to sell people security solutions.
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And if you want to house rule that you can (although why you would I don't know), but complaining about the base rule because of a house rule you've invented seems a little strange.
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And if you want to house rule that you can (although why you would I don't know), but complaining about the base rule because of a house rule you've invented seems a little strange.
I was pointing out that it couldnt be doig what you are proposing. If thats what it did, it would require a skill other than hardware to fix.
Hardware refers te the physical portion of a device. If it isnt physically damaged in some way, then I dont see how hardware skill will fix it.
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The thing is, black IC and the like? They hit your neural pathways for a reason - hacking someone and frying their datajack, if only for a game balance reason, should not melt your brain. Want a hardware reason? Circuit breakers. Think of it as a physical failsafe - the thing blows a fuse (sparks, etc) rather than gets so hot the circuit melts and makes you the next set of spare parts that Organ Grinders picks up for resale. I know that I for one, don't want killing someone to be as simple as spiking their jack - if they are on VR with a DNI, then the reason that getting a black bat cooks your brain is because they're essentially bricking your brain; your neural pathways at that point are serving as a direct part of the wiring.
On the other hand, fixing a datajack seems like it isn't hardware. A datajack is cyberware - which means that it should fall under the purview of cybertech.
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If I can put in a breaker that stops a hacker from damaging my brain by frying my datajack, why won't a circuit breaker protect my brain from a different program attacking it through my data jack?
Cyberware can't be smart enough to protect you from the side effects of bricking in a world where Black IC exists.
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Except that a breaker would only do that if it was the datajack being overloaded - they hit you with a black bat, they're not trying to overload your datajack, nor cook any of its parts - at that point, they're using the datajack against you, making it give your brain a good shocking. Two seperate targets and processes.
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I can maybe buy a circuit breaker argument. Problem is, it only works for ware thats externally accessable. If it happens to your Wired Reflexes, theyre still gonna have to cut you open.
I dont know if Black IC causes your jack to give you a literal shock.
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I do agree, going to have to cut you open to fix those wires, and anything else you can't get at externally. And, I can see the corps loving that - they get to charge you for the operation and an 'overhaul' on your wires. For resetting a circuit breaker. I know that if I was a moneymongering corporate overlord, I would demand that setup. I'd even build an ad campaign around it. "Here at Evo, we provide you with the very best in human augmentation, and if an evil decker should ruin your ware, well, come to us, and we'll fix it faster than you thought possible, and in event of an invasive surgery, we have specially trained mage doctors who will help you recover with a minimum of discomfort. "
And maybe not a literal shock, but it could tell your heart to stop beating, or tell other parts of you something is wrong, so your body tries to correct and ends up damaging itself because nothing is actually wrong there. Heck, it could overload your brain with junk data - your gray matter rewires itself every time you learn something new, so imagine having it rewire itself repeatedly at an extremely high rate of speed - your brain might start bleeding, which makes sense, because that is the only explanation I have seen for BTLs frying your brain.
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Im fine with that, its just it isnt how RAW explains the repairs working.
And I think the reasons BTLs fry your brain is that theyre *literally* better than life. The emotions are more intense than your brain can naturally cope with. That combined with the unnaturaly prolonged exposure to extremely high amounts of the chemicals causing said emotions just wears your brain out.
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this could be so, yeah. Might also be how a black bat works too, to some degree. Not hard to imagine that its generally a sensory overload.
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Generally speaking, in my game and in every good game I've seen run, the rules do what they say they do unless there is a specific house-rule. I'm certain we are all smart enough to come up with very good reasons why it should be X, and very good reasons it should be Y. Given two sets of very good reasons for two mutually exclusive things, it is our responsibility to justify why the rules work--not why they don't. If you feel conviction that the rules should be different, then your recourse is to talk to your GM for a houserule or to houserule your own game. In the meanwhile, and for the sake of making posts useful to noobs, the rules do what they say they do, and nothing more.
Also, none of this has to do with Gear for 5th Edition Samurai Builds.
The Samurai in my game (Human) prioritized Nuyen as A. He got a Cyberarm (Max AGI/STR, Armor +2), Aluminum Bones, Orthoskin 3, and Synaptic Booster 2. That was on top of some Headgear / Eyegear. It was a short, single run so he didn't have to worry about Wired Reflexes eventually outstripping the Synaptic Booster. He did really well, used his 12P Katana to cleave through drones and people like a hot knife through butter. He had some trouble with things staying away, but he choose to reach them with athletics rather than shoot. He had a gun, but I suspected he thought the challenge was more fun. He also enjoyed his Body of 5 for purposes of soak, plus armor in the upper teens. He waded into combat like it was nothing.
It seems absolutely essential to rush enough mods to get your third turn. While he used the Synaptic Booster, Wired Reflexes 1 plus Used Reaction Enhancers 3 are probably better the better investment. It gives you a base Defensive Roll of up to 16. I'd buy up Reaction Enhancer 4 and Wired Reflexes 3 as soon as possible, for the 13 Reaction, 18 Defensive Roll, and averaging four turns.
Cyber Hands and Feet seem like a better investment for armor than metal bones, both in terms of Nuyen and in terms of Essence.
At least one Cyber Arm for AGI 9 seems essential in the beginning.
The ability to stack Cybereyes and Vision enhancement 6 Goggles makes the Street Sammie an excellent scout.
I'd say a more efficient, twinkish raw-combat build would be:
- A = Attributes, B = Nuyen, C = Skills, D = Race (Human), E = Magic
- Magic Resistance 4*
- Body 5, Agility 3 (9**), Reaction 6 (10), Strength 4, Willpower 5, Logic 3, Intuition 5, Charisma 1, Edge 5
- Relevant Combat Skill 6, with a Specialty for +2 in your weapon
- Wired Reflexes 1 [2, 39000]
- Used Reaction Enhancers 3 [0.3*3*1.25, 13000*3*0.75]
- Cyberarm with Agility 6 (9), Armor +2 [1, 20000+15000+6500*3+3000*2]
- Betawear Cyberhand/Cyberhand with Armor +2 x3 [0.25*3*0.7, (6000*1.5+3000*2)*3]
- Orthoskin 3 [0.2*3, 6000*3]
- Cybereyes 2 [0.3, 6000]
+ Image Link [0.1, 1000]
+ Smartlink [0.2, 4000]
+ Thermographic Vision [0.1, 1500]
- Armored Jacket + Helmet [1100]
- Auctioneer Business Clothes [1500]
- Monofilament Whip [10000]
- Ares Alpha [2650]
- Steyr TMP + External Smart Gun [350 + 125 + 200]
- Transys Avalon + Sim Module [5100]***
- Goggles with Vision Enhancement 6 [50*6+500*6]
- Headphones 5 with Audio Enhancement 3 and Spacial Recognizor [50*5+500*3+1000]
- TOTAL: 5.95 Essence Cost, 207250 Nuyen... plenty left over for utility gear, Fake SIN, Lifestyle, bullets, grenades, et cetera
* May not be the best choice with all teams.
** Assumes Cyberlimb's replacement stats are not affected by augmentation limits. If this is not the case in your game, drop Willpower, Strength, and/or Logic as necessary.
*** Master to all wireless devices and cyberwear, for protection, assuming your Decker isn't doing something better.
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Aren't Reaction Enhancers capped at 3?
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You do know it only take a simple toolkit (500¥) and one single hit on a Hardware + Logic [Mental] test to restore full functionality in a bricked device, right?
If you don't have Hardware skill you can even default.
Defaulting Attribute for Hardware is Logic
Can a hardware check be used to fix my brain when my datajack explodes...
Why would your brain get damaged and why would your datajack explode....?
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Aren't Reaction Enhancers capped at 3?
They go up to 4 I believe, but the availability is too high to get at char gen.
A dev also stated that used wear isnt available at char gen. I dont remember of it was on here, dumpshock, or somewhere else.
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Nope they stop at 3.
Reaction Enhancers (Rating 1-3) Rating x 0.3 — (Rating x 5)R Rating x 13,000¥
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Nope they stop at 3.
Reaction Enhancers (Rating 1-3) Rating x 0.3 — (Rating x 5)R Rating x 13,000¥
Alrighty, wasnt entirely sure on that one.
Either way, its used ware so if what that dev said was true it cant been taken anyway. Might show up in an erratta sometime.
I think thats dumb though, so Id probably allow it at my table :P
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Nope they stop at 3.
Reaction Enhancers (Rating 1-3) Rating x 0.3 — (Rating x 5)R Rating x 13,000¥
Alrighty, wasnt entirely sure on that one.
Either way, its used ware so if what that dev said was true it cant been taken anyway. Might show up in an erratta sometime.
I think thats dumb though, so Id probably allow it at my table :P
Your call, but personally I'd rather pretend that Used 'grade' didn't exist.
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Nope they stop at 3.
Reaction Enhancers (Rating 1-3) Rating x 0.3 — (Rating x 5)R Rating x 13,000¥
Alrighty, wasnt entirely sure on that one.
Either way, its used ware so if what that dev said was true it cant been taken anyway. Might show up in an erratta sometime.
I think thats dumb though, so Id probably allow it at my table :P
Your call, but personally I'd rather pretend that Used 'grade' didn't exist.
I personally almost never take used ware, even in SR4. I dont even like having my ESS below 1 if I can help it.
Though, with the increased ware prices in SR5, alphaware is too expensive to get unless you take A for resources., so Ive had to learn to live with it.
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Ware prices in general are up, but prices for Alpha and Beta are much lower. x 1.2 vs x 2 in 4th. To me that makes it definitely worth it.
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How much does an A WR 1 cost in SR4 vs SR5 in actual ¥? Sorry, dont have the books in front of me atm to check.
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How much does an A WR 1 cost in SR4 vs SR5 in actual ¥? Sorry, dont have the books in front of me atm to check.
Rating 1
11,000 in SR4A (22,000 for Alpha)
30,000 in SR5 (36,000 for Alpha)
Rating 2
32,000 in SR4A (64,000 for Alpha)
149,000 in SR5 (178,800 for Alpha)
Rating 3
100,000 in SR4A (200,000 for Alpha)
217,000 in SR5 (260,400 for Alpha)
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Am I remembering correctly that 3 was a lot more expensive?
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Am I remembering correctly that 3 was a lot more expensive?
It was, but then you could get more than double the character generation resources compared to what can be gotten now.
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How much does an A WR 1 cost in SR4 vs SR5 in actual ¥? Sorry, dont have the books in front of me atm to check.
Rating 1
11,000 in SR4A
30,000 in SR5
Rating 2
32,000 in SR4A
149,000 in SR5
Rating 3
100,000 in SR4A
217,000 in SR5
So even with the lower costs for Alpha, its still more expensive because the base cost offsets it.
Its just that you can start with almost twice the money now. Which WR 2 costs almost 4x as much in SR5, and you cant even get that as alpha at char gen anymore.
I usually start at C resources, cause I like being able to have more skills than just my combat ones. But I guess thats just me.
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How much does an A WR 1 cost in SR4 vs SR5 in actual ¥? Sorry, dont have the books in front of me atm to check.
Rating 1
11,000 in SR4A
30,000 in SR5
Rating 2
32,000 in SR4A
149,000 in SR5
Rating 3
100,000 in SR4A
217,000 in SR5
So even with the lower costs for Alpha, its still more expensive because the base cost offsets it.
Its just that you can start with almost twice the money now. Which WR 2 costs almost 4x as much in SR5, and you cant even get that as alpha at char gen anymore.
I usually start at C resources, cause I like being able to have more skills than just my combat ones. But I guess thats just me.
Look at the edit. I added the Alpha-ware cost.
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Look at the edit. I added the Alpha-ware cost
Ok, so lookin at that, the difference for an A WR II is about 3x and not the 4x that standard ware costs.
And you cant get an A WR II in SR5 char gen anyway, so I guess it doesnt matter all that much anyway.
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so under the new edition, I have to have wireless? Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?
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so under the new edition, I have to have wireless? Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?
Have to? No. But there are reasons why you may want to.
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Used Grade is actually worth it for Street Samurais, when it comes to Bone Density Augmentation and Orthoskin. You'd have +4/+4 instead of +3/+3 at the same price and availability, just more essence. It depends on your priorities, but it's quite an interesting option.
I find it weird that Used wouldn't be available at chargen by the way.
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so under the new edition, I have to have wireless? Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?
Have to? No. But there are reasons why you may want to.
A bonus? versus say getting my wired reflexes or cyber arm, eyes hacked? no thanks
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so under the new edition, I have to have wireless? Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?
Have to? No. But there are reasons why you may want to.
A bonus? versus say getting my wired reflexes or cyber arm, eyes hacked? no thanks
You say that like your defenseless. Given the actual difficulty of such a thing occurring (and the fact that cyberlimbs don't have bonuses to begin with, and are excluded from this discussion) if you're actually bothering to mount a reasonable defense of your gear (you don't have to be a hacker to defend - buy a decent commlink, or slave things to the decker and let him defend)...
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so under the new edition, I have to have wireless? Why am I not happy about giving some one a way to mess with my cyber ware?
Have to? No. But there are reasons why you may want to.
A bonus? versus say getting my wired reflexes or cyber arm, eyes hacked? no thanks
You say that like your defenseless. Given the actual difficulty of such a thing occurring (and the fact that cyberlimbs don't have bonuses to begin with, and are excluded from this discussion) if you're actually bothering to mount a reasonable defense of your gear (you don't have to be a hacker to defend - buy a decent commlink, or slave things to the decker and let him defend)...
Your defenses arent *that* good. Its been shown to be a 50-50 shot against a char gen decker.
And the decker can only slave about 12 things to his deck. Sam by himself is probably going to take up 7 or 8 of those. Doesnt leave much room for anyone else and you better hope two people dont want to play sams.
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Used Grade is actually worth it for Street Samurais, when it comes to Bone Density Augmentation and Orthoskin. You'd have +4/+4 instead of +3/+3 at the same price and availability, just more essence. It depends on your priorities, but it's quite an interesting option.
I find it weird that Used wouldn't be available at chargen by the way.
Used ware is available depending if you use SR5 95 or 451 as reference. Former says standard and alpha, latter includes used.
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I know. I was responding to this statement:
A dev also stated that used wear isnt available at char gen. I dont remember of it was on here, dumpshock, or somewhere else.
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Your defenses arent *that* good. Its been shown to be a 50-50 shot against a char gen decker.
That is pretty good considering you don't have to do anything for your 5k device to auto counter attack and possible deal (unresistd) matrix damage to the decker and his 345k deck.
- and in addition to this you can also use an interrupt action to go full matrix defense to add Willpower to your defense pool.
- and it is only a free action away to turn off wireless for the rare occasion you might or might not be attacked from the Matrix.
Put in perspective;
You have 50 - 50 (or less if your build is not combat oriented) to survive a firearms fight with a chargen street sam ;)
I still think magicians and adepts have it worse, considering a spirit can attack their focus directly from the astral plane and the magician's or adept's focus will not fight back at all. ...and going toe on toe solo against a powerful spirit in astral combat is deadly - or in best case very unhealthy.
(and to even do that you need to have access to astral projection or at least astral perception and have invested in the skill Astral Combat - a skill that you cant default to attributes on).
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can you attack a focus in the astral in 5e?
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- and in addition to this you can also use an interrupt action to go full matrix defense to add Willpower to your defense pool.
The 50/50 assumes youre adding your willpower. Otherwise with just the commlink, youd get crushed.
and it is only a free action away to turn off wireless for the rare occasion you might or might not be attacked from the Matrix.
Assuming I even know its happening.
If you can turn it off and back on as a free action, it renders hacking entirely pointless anyway, so why even make these changes? It isnt even an inconvenience.
You have 50 - 50 (or less if your build is not combat oriented) to survive a firearms fight with a chargen street sam
No, theyll both survive, because theyll be too busy actively protecting their gear to get any shots off. Or theyll just turn their gear off for the fight, in which case, why buy the stuff at all?
That wasnt a good comparison anyway, because youre talking two people who are on equal footing. The Sam isnt equal to the Decker for hacking unless he adds his willpower.
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The 50/50 assumes youre adding your willpower. Otherwise with just the commlink, youd get crushed...
Crushed you say?
Attacker would roll Cybercombat + Logic [Attack] which for argument sake is 6+6 dice
A 345k deck have the limit array of 4, 5, 6 ,7 (so the current limit might be as low as 4 or as high as 7 - depending on how much Firewall, Data Processing and Sleaze he want right now).
Defense roll is Intuition + Firewall [+Willpower if you use Full Matrix Defense]. No limit.
Firewall 6 is just 5k away and since Intuition is used for Initiative even the street sam might have an intuition of... say 4? Without slaving the stuff to another member in the team and without using Full Matrix Defense you would still have 10 dice.
12 dice [5] vs 10 dice. You cause matrix unresisted damage to the cyberdeck on tie or win.
That is pretty good odds for not having to spend even a free action to fight back. About 50-50 i'd say.
If you spend some initiative on the interrupt action (yes interrupt, you can take it at any time - even not during your own action phase - and it last for a full combat turn) you even get to add Willpower to the defense roll. More dice than the attacker. No limit. Win on tie.
And, let us not forget that you are still just a free action away to turn off wireless which make you immune to Matrix Attacks. Not like your equipment is useless[ without the wireless bonus... shrug.
...and if the decker does fill your entire matrix condition monitor on your device before you switch to local mode (which in this example would take about 2-5 complex actions), you still only need a simple tooklit, 1 hour and 1 single hit on a Hardware + Logic [Mental] test (or a Logic + Logic - 1 [Mental] if you don't have Hardware skill) to fix it enough to restore full functionality in your device again.
Now - put the decker in line of sight of the street sam and see who wins that fight ;)
Spiders are not rare, but remember that the vast majority of them are Riggers; Controlling building security, cameras, doors, jumping into remote turrets, coordinating living patrols, providing intel, calling for backup etc.
Security Deckers are pretty rare (information wants to be free etc - crazy hackers).
As a Street Sam I would be more concerned about fighting spirits without help from a Magician than fighting a security rigger without help from a Decker.... Shrug.
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can you attack a focus in the astral in 5e?
I thought bound and active focus always existed on the astral plane and was open for attacks from within astral plane, but I have not actually read up on that chapter in SR5 so there might be some rule against it. You don't bring your focus when you use Astral Projection anymore? That would suck.....
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I forgot about adding intuiting to it. So yes, it starts 50/50 before willpower.
You cause matrix unresisted damage to the cyberdeck on tie or win.
Ive been unable to find where it says this.
Now - put the decker in line of sight of the street sam and see who wins that fight
Why would he ever be outside of cover if he can avoid it? Hell, why would he ever even been in the same room? Unlike the Sam, he doesnt have to have LOS.
Not like your equipment is useless[ without the wireless bonus... shrug.
Vision enhancement - useless
Audio enhancemenr - useless
Smartgun - useless
Lasersight- useless
Reflexes/enhancers - incompatable
Increasing limits isnt anywhere near as useful as increasing dp. Youd have to be averaging the limit for it to be useful by itself. If youve got a Ruger Warhawk, thats 15 die to average the natural accuracy.
Security Deckers are pretty rare (information wants to be free etc - crazy hackers).
Thats like insinuating that Microsoft or Apple dont employ programmers. *Someone* is writing and maintaining all this IC and commercial security software.
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Not like your equipment is useless[ without the wireless bonus... shrug.
Vision enhancement - useless
Audio enhancemenr - useless
Smartgun - useless
Lasersight- useless
Reflexes/enhancers - incompatable
Increasing limits isnt anywhere near as useful as increasing dp. Youd have to be averaging the limit for it to be useful by itself. If youve got a Ruger Warhawk, thats 15 die to average the natural accuracy.
You do have to add a caveat in there for the first four on your list. Change it to "useless unless you're already one of the top five individuals in the world in the affected ability".
That last one...there is just simply no good excuse to require a Matrix connection for those to not work together. Period.
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Vision enhancement - useless
Audio enhancemenr - useless
Smartgun - useless
Lasersight- useless
That depends greatly on your skill level. If you've got the Enfield AS-7, Agility 7(9), Longarms 6, and a Reflex Recorder, you're running into the base Accuracy of 4 66.09% of the time - and with the laser sight boosting Accuracy, that drops to 45.31%. The +Limit increases your damage about 21% of the time. By comparison, your odds of getting the 4 or 5 hits increase by only 6 or 7 percent with the extra die. So, in this case, the +Limit is about 3 times more useful.
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You don't even need to be that agile, Rhat. People seem to keep forgetting that we have an advancement now beyond skill level 6 - and you start talking about a street sam, you're probably also talking muscle enhancers - which might very well mean a street sam with an agility above six, and inevitably, someone is going to build an elven gunfighter of some sort who has exceptional attribute agility (8 natural agility maximum) and is coming out the door with either cyberware to give them a big bonus, or adept powers to give them a big bonus, and a top quality skill in their favorite gun. You start talking about a twelve agility and a 6 (or more, what with reflex recorders or magical combat skill boosts, which is likely) and a specialization (further increasing the dice pool for that gun...) and you're talking about a monstrous dice pool. something like 21 dice without a specialization, 23 with a specialization. And this isn't even the top person in the world (no, it isn't - stop arguing, there are another 6 dice worth of skill to be had that you can't start out with at character creation.) At this point, without the accuracy boost of a laser site or a smartlink, you can buy more hits than the gun has accuracy.
Now, admittedly, we're talking street sams, not adepts, so the maximum dice pool possible here drops by about four - a 10 agility, a 6 skill + specialization, and a reflex recorder. That means a 19 dice pool, in which case, you can buy that Enfeild's hits without the accuracy increase provided by smartlink or laser sight. And if anyone thinks no one will do this, they're mad - there is always one guy who does this sort of thing (At our table, its often me that takes it to these extremes, and I apologize for that now.) So no, I don't think that the laser sights or smartlink are useless, they are simply useful to a very specific crowd, and last I checked, street sams were combat specialists, which means that they fit the crowd.
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Yeah, but I like grabbing numbers that are in reach for starting characters - illustrates the point better.
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The whole point is that the Vision Enhancement, Audio Enhancement, Smartlink and such should not ONLY be useful without the damn Matrix connection once the dice pool has gone into the stratosphere like that.
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Those numbers are in reach for a starting character. Like I said, agility 8 (elf with exceptional attribute agility and 2 points of cyberware augmentation to agility) and the stat maxed at character creation, a reflex recorder, a maxed skill and a single specialization. You can have that coming out the gate.
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Those numbers are in reach for a starting character. Like I said, agility 8 (elf with exceptional attribute agility and 2 points of cyberware augmentation to agility) and the stat maxed at character creation, a reflex recorder, a maxed skill and a single specialization. You can have that coming out the gate.
Possible? Yeah.
Probable? I doubt it.
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Those numbers are in reach for a starting character. Like I said, agility 8 (elf with exceptional attribute agility and 2 points of cyberware augmentation to agility) and the stat maxed at character creation, a reflex recorder, a maxed skill and a single specialization. You can have that coming out the gate.
I'll rephrase - within reasonable reach of a starting character.