Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Razhul on <08-09-13/2021:44>
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P.242 shows Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating x2)
For when is that? I figure I don't have to roll against my own Cyberdeck/Commlink to put a Data Bomb on one of my own files, right? Cause, if that was the case, it would get harder, the better my device is. /confused
So... is that when you are trying to put the Bomb on someone else's system that you haven't been invited to?
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I would imagine that the opposed roll is only used when you are trying to set a data bomb on a file that you don't own. After all, you don't need to make a roll to switch from AR to VR on your own commlink, nor to reboot.
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It appears to me that you make the roll even on files you own. The reason being that net hits determine how high the data bomb's rating is. It might appear a bit weird, since you own it, but it's probaly a game balance issue. After all, the most desirable outcome is to have both a high device rating and a high data bomb rating at the same time. Notice the Sleaze as a limit too. It's an action a non hacker can't even attempt.
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It appears to me that you make the roll even on files you own. The reason being that net hits determine how high the data bomb's rating is. It might appear a bit weird, since you own it, but it's probaly a game balance issue. After all, the most desirable outcome is to have both a high device rating and a high data bomb rating at the same time. Notice the Sleaze as a limit too. It's an action a non hacker can't even attempt.
I would assume that you would make the roll unopposed if you own the file/device.
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I would assume that you would make the roll unopposed if you own the file/device.
I'm throwing my voice behind this assessment as well.
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I would assume that you would make the roll unopposed if you own the file/device.
Quite possible. I'd suggest playing it out and making sure a PC Decker with decent software skills can disarm bombs created by this method. My concern would be NPC spiders making bombs too difficult for starter deckers. (Because everyone is a starter decker right now)
Hmm, assuming a Sleaze rating of 6 (Selected as the top attribute) and Software of 5 and Logic of 5, the spider gets 3 hits on average, meaning a rating 3 data bomb.
The decker PC has to beat a rating 6 (Data bomb rating X 2) with his Intiution + Software (Firewall) That doesn't seem to bad, especially since I assumed a pretty high end deck for the spider.
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While we're at it: I don't get how much damage a Data Bomb does. It says (rating)d6 damage, but that sounds more like something out of D&D.
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They are that nasty, I guess.
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Just a bit strange that it's a d6 damage rather than a flat value.
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I took a 4D6 Data Bomb to the face yesterday. It was not pretty and almost insta-bricked my Rating 5 deck. :S
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P.242 shows Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating x2)
For when is that? I figure I don't have to roll against my own Cyberdeck/Commlink to put a Data Bomb on one of my own files, right? Cause, if that was the case, it would get harder, the better my device is. /confused
So... is that when you are trying to put the Bomb on someone else's system that you haven't been invited to?
Setting a data bomb is a an illegal sleaze action, even if you do it to your own files. All devices, including yours, will try to resist it. Probably build into the new matrix protocol or something....
And not sure why you would want to booby trap your own files in the first place. If you don't supply the passcode it will blow up your cyberdeck. The only way to remove the booby trap from the file is to disarm it. That might blow up your cyberdeck as well (well, not blow up - it take less than an hour to repair it enough to be 100% functional again - but still).
...maybe you can provide the passcode and make a copy of the file. then provide the passcode and delete the original booby trapped file?
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P.242 shows Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating x2)
For when is that? I figure I don't have to roll against my own Cyberdeck/Commlink to put a Data Bomb on one of my own files, right? Cause, if that was the case, it would get harder, the better my device is. /confused
So... is that when you are trying to put the Bomb on someone else's system that you haven't been invited to?
Setting a data bomb is a an illegal sleaze action, even if you do it to your own files. All devices, including yours, will try to resist it. Probably build into the new matrix protocol or something....
And not sure why you would want to booby trap your own files in the first place. If you don't supply the passcode it will blow up your cyberdeck. The only way to remove the booby trap from the file is to disarm it. That might blow up your cyberdeck as well (well, not blow up - it take less than an hour to repair it enough to be 100% functional again - but still).
...maybe you can provide the passcode and make a copy of the file. then provide the passcode and delete the original booby trapped file?
Well, the explosion only harms the one that sets it off, not the device it's on, so get someone else to disarm it?
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As a matter of protection, I actually Data Bomb pretty much everything I don't want spying eyes to get to. My team knows the correct passcode. Everyone else can go get a blast in their face when trying to get to our database / files about the run / recordings etc.
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fair enough.
first of all, you can protect the file.
If you don't protect the file than anyone can read the file.
the protection is a edit file action with a simple Computer + Logic [Data Processing] test.
to get a good protection you need to protect the file on a decent device (but you can also use a limit breaker on the roll). Protecting a file is a Data Processing action, which means everyone - even non-hackers - can do it. And you can protect files even on a normal commlink.
This will prevent people from reading it.
The only way unauthorized people can read the file is if they first break the protection and this is done with a matrix attack action. As the owner you will be informed if/when someone kill your file protection. Crack File is resolved with Hacking + Logic [Attack] v. Protection Rating x 2; so on this roll you don't really get any help if the file is stored on a high rating device.
Crack File also require a mark on your cyberdeck/commlink. Either with Brute Force which is resolved with Cybercombat + Logic [Attack] v. Willpower + Firewall or Hack on the Fly which is resolved with Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] v. Intuition + Firewall. In both cases a higher rating device will make it harder to achieve the initial mark, but you could have a low rating device slaved to a high rating device to take benefit of the high rating device's Firewall.
To set a data bomb you resolve it with Software + Logic [Sleze] v. (Device Rating x 2)
This mean you can not use a commlink to set a data bomb on a file, but you can use your cyberdeck to put a data bomb on files that are located on your commlink. You require at least one mark to set a data bomb, but if it is your commlink we are talking about this is not an issue at all. The data bomb have the potential to be stronger on weaker devices, so in this case you would want a low ranking commlink (preferable currently not slaved to a master device with a high firewall rating).
To remove a data bomb is resolve with Software + Intuition [Firewall] v. Data Bomb Rating x 2. There is no need to have a mark in order to remove the data bomb and the limit is Firewall: This all mean your opponent can remove it with a (high rating) commlink.
To sum up.
Buy a low rating commlink (use it as a team file server) and slave it to your cyberdeck or a high rating commlink (just for the extra firewall dice). Store your files on the low rating commlink. Use Edge to break the limit when you place a protection on the file located on the low rating commlink. Log in to your cyberdeck and set a data bomb on the file. Slave your commlink to your cyberdeck or a high rating commlink.
You get to use your intuition or willpower to protect against hackers trying to get marks. You get to use a high rating firewall dice as well. The data bomb will be deadly++ since you did it on such a low rating device (odds are you will brick the cyberdeck or commlink being used to disarm the bomb if they fail - causing dump shock if the operator disarming the bomb from VR). The protection have potential to be very hard and time consuming to break, automatically dealing unresisted matrix damage on each failed attempt.
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I just realized.
Set Data Bomb is resolved by
Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating x 2)
There is a parenthesis around Device Rating(!)
This indicate that the test is not always resisted by Device Rating
The text does not clarify when and when not device rating is used
- But an educated guess is that this test is only opposed when you are trying to hack a bomb on a device you don't have permission to place bombs on(!)
That actually make a lot of sense - and will be my [new] answer to OP :D
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Xenon: The limit for Edit File is based off of the Data Processing for the device you're using to Edit the file, not the limit for the device the file is on. If you're a decker, you'd use your data processing for the deck, not the low rating commlink, so there's no harsher limit on low rating commlinks at all where files are concerned.
Also, that parentheses stuff? I'm not too sure about it.
ERASE MATRIX SIGNATURE
(complex Action)
Marks Required: none
Test: Computer + Resonance [Attack] v. (Signature
Rating) x 2
This also has parentheses, but there is no way it is ever unopposed by signature rating.
matrix perception
(complex Action)
Marks Required: none
Test: Computer + Intuition [Data Processing] (v. Logic
+ Sleaze)
In this case it is definitely sometimes unopposed. Notice how the "v." is also within the parenthesis here, though, and it's not for the two others.
Maybe the parenthesis were for clarity of reading (multiplication signs?) and for some reason not applied consistently to everything else? I -want- your interpretation to be true, but I've got to play devil's advocate a little here.
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You need to be the Owner of the file you ant to protect, but yes you are correct. Since I am the owner of the file on my low budget commlink i an use my cyberdeck or a high rating commlink to edit the file and protect it. Good catch.
re data bomb. I am actually fine either way.
The reason for the first scenario is that all matrix devices actively tries to prevent you from hacking a bomb on files due to the new matrix protocol. Reason for the second scenario is that you have control over devices you own and they will not resist you when placing bombs on your own files. Both are acceptable imo.
That...but I've got to play devil's advocate a little here.
I would not want it another way. This is why i throw up my ideas on a forum. To have people challenge them.
We have a third version on Set Data Bomb
Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating x 2)
I agree that the parenthesis would only be there for clarity if they typed it like this:
Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating) x 2
And I agree that the parenthesis would indicate that it is not always resisted if they typed it like this:
Software + Logic [Sleaze] (v. Device Rating x 2)
But then you have examples where you sometimes get extra dice from something....
Let's see... I think Counterspelling have a few examples like that:
Willpower + Logic (+ Counterspelling if available) [Mental]
Here is an example with spend Karma
Counterspelling + Magic [Astral] v. spell’s Force + caster’s Magic (+ amount of Karma spent on quickening the spell, if any).
Not sure what i am trying to say here.
The notation they used is weak and ambiguous
- it can be read both ways.
I tossed it up in the FAQ thread.
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I love SR5, but everything is so flunky in the wording, everywhere :p Not sure if SR4 had the same problem, I came in at SR4A.
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SRAnything is usually a little flunky with wording. But considering how much can be done in an RPG and how one of the premiere metagames with any RPG is squeezing out every advantage from the rules, it's not really restricted to SR.
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SRAnything is usually a little flunky with wording. But considering how much can be done in an RPG and how one of the premiere metagames with any RPG is squeezing out every advantage from the rules, it's not really restricted to SR.
True, but problems with (for instance) NWoD or D&D are usually not of this magnitude. In D&D you often get horrifically OP stuff caused by several different splats working together to make a monster (but not by misunderstanding, just because they weren't built with eachother in mind).