Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: nogusielkt on <09-09-13/2032:37>
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I ran my group through ashes, from sprawl wilds, recently. Sometimes they used their knowledge skills, but they never really pressed for any information. They went to the meet with no questions asked, they took the job(s) with no questions asked, and did a couple things on the side with minimal information. Coming from a mainly DND background, I think this is from a habit formed from the difference in the systems/scenarios.
I'd like to lightly encourage them to check people out, without screwing them over by ... well having them screwed over from not checking; some positive reinforcement for checking something out before rushing head long into it. Should I insert hours of time between when they need to do things? Should I weave a hint into the job offer? I'd like them to be more proactive in information gathering.
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Well, if there's time for legwork, one simple option is to ask them what they're doing in that time to at least get them thinking about it.
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If they truly do not understand the concept of legwork and that Shadowrun has quite a bit more going on in the hiring and research stages than D&D usually does, why not just"lift the screen" at the end of the run and tell them what all they could have done/earned had they done a bit more in the legwork/negotiation phases. Just do it for one run and see how that goes.
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Start by showing them the info they could have obtained through Datasearch/Contacts on all the various individuals, perhaps?
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Since they're new, I think it's entirely appropriate to specifically ask them from time to time, "So, would you like to check with any of your contacts to see what they might know about this? How about Matrix searches? Anyone want to ask the locals on the scene anything?" Hopefully they'll see the usefulness of doing the legwork and start to do it without prompting, but for now, that's how I'd approach it.
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It can be a good prompt to have a contact call them with info, especially in the first few sessions. Once they get used A) to thinking of information as valuable and b) thinking of contacts as sources of information they'll be more likely to go seek that info later.
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Well, if there's time for legwork, one simple option is to ask them what they're doing in that time to at least get them thinking about it.
Sounds good, I'll add that in to the next run.
If they truly do not understand the concept of legwork and that Shadowrun has quite a bit more going on in the hiring and research stages than D&D usually does, why not just"lift the screen" at the end of the run and tell them what all they could have done/earned had they done a bit more in the legwork/negotiation phases. Just do it for one run and see how that goes.
Start by showing them the info they could have obtained through Datasearch/Contacts on all the various individuals, perhaps?
While I haven't committed the "Ashes" to memory, largely the legwork just gives you the story, none of it was necessary to complete any of the objectives, minus the fire itself, which I helped with.. Lifting the screen in this case wouldn't do much towards that, although I have lifted the screen to show them the combat they had wasn't supposed to be a steamrolled battle.
It can be a good prompt to have a contact call them with info, especially in the first few sessions. Once they get used A) to thinking of information as valuable and b) thinking of contacts as sources of information they'll be more likely to go seek that info later.
Might be able to do this... perhaps the fixer chimes back in saying something about their ID/Story didn't pan out how they said so be careful... of course that just might make them paranoid; it'll be a fine line.
Since they're new, I think it's entirely appropriate to specifically ask them from time to time, "So, would you like to check with any of your contacts to see what they might know about this? How about Matrix searches? Anyone want to ask the locals on the scene anything?" Hopefully they'll see the usefulness of doing the legwork and start to do it without prompting, but for now, that's how I'd approach it.
Locals on the scene is what would be the habit for them right now. That's fine in some cases, but probably not a lot of the time. For "Ashes" they Were looking for suspicious people that may have set off the explosion after it had happened, and once again while they were fighting the fire. I don't think they see their contacts, or sometimes even their knowledge skills, as extensions of their characters abilities.
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If you start getting into adventures you design yourself, you might be able to get them into the habit of doing legwork.
Off the top of my head:
Johnson needs a widget from a lab... But wants the job done silently.... And the Johnson does NOT have any prints or passcodes to the facility....
This forces them to either A: do some legwork, or B: go in loud and risk the Johnson not paying. Or C: turning down the job...
Just go easy on them the first few times then increase the complexity of the legwork as they get used to it..
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My most recent group were all new to gaming in general. I started off with a soft hand and slowly firmed up over time. The process works. You let them stumble and don't overly punish them for it and slowly turn up the difficulty at a pace where they can learn to swim rather than drown.
Their first run (and most of that campaign) was a disaster. But them it clicked as to what they could do. If possible, I'd also advise that you should take them one at a time to other groups (I know, not everybody has two playground in the same city) and let them see how others do it. I saw HUGE leaps of reasoning and legwork when one of my players requested to play with another group (I had never thought of it). He spent a lot of that night quietly observing and helping in combat. Came back to his regular table and it was like night and day.
Have faith. They'll learn so long as you help them along with just enough firmness.
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In my first SR campaning we mostly skipped the legwork preiod. But this time in SR 5, legwork makes all the diffrence in all runs. What happend? Well we watched some good heist movies and the Leverge TV series and learned from them the importance of legwork. Also i started to give my playeres less and less information from their Johnson. It usually encouraged them to find informations on their own. Because running blindly would certainly mean their deaths.
So my advice is to build a run wich is almost impossible to accomplish without proper legwork. Make it extra rewarding witch both nuyen and Karma.
You could go for something like this. Johnson wants some Artifact from the fourth world wich is in possesion of a wealthy CEO or other important corporate figure. What the Johnson didn't know is that the Artifact is not in the mansion any more but was transported to a vault in a magical security company (Parashield for example) building. Our CEO has some financial problems and is in need of money so he is prepareing a black market auction for some items from his collection of artifacts which of course incudes our Artifact. Our Artifact is alwas transported separatly from the rest of the collection in an armored car without any markings. The Artifact is housed in a special briefcase wich hides it astral signature and blocks astral perception cuffed to a hand of a company security mage and is guarded by 6 elite guards (professional rating 4 or 5) while it is transported.
The runners can get useful information from the security company employees or their Matrix hosts. They could for example discern the location of the auction by the route or the armored car or the location and security of the vault (which would be extremly high).
If they have some knowledge about security they could use it to know the exact security measures and procedures used in case of this transport. This information shouldn't be taken from our companys host. The company logs should say something like - "extreamly valuable cargo – proceed with extreme caution”
If they have any black market connections they could hear about the auction and even find out its location (some abandoned warehouse, but discreetly guarded at the moment of the auction).
You could add a second armored car with additional guards, or some other runner groups with the same objective to spice things up. Or you could add both of them.
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Just give them an overview of how legwork works and why it's important. Alternatively, you could pair them up with an experienced NPC runner who can assign them legwork tasks and encourage them to utilize their contacts.
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The Johnson can be used to help newbie players out. He can provide passkeys, fake uniforms., and even fully detailed plans. And in your particular case, he can out right suggest different information avenues that should be explored for the run. As your players get more experienced and as the runs start paying more, the Johnsons can be less helpful.
The Fixer who set up the meeting with the Johnson can fill the same role if you prefer. This way you can reach the same goal, but keep the image if the icy all business Mr. Johnson. The Fixer might pride himself on going the extra mile and not just setting up meets, but also following up with his talent and making sure the job is done right. After all, his rep is on the line.
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It can be a good prompt to have a contact call them with info, especially in the first few sessions. Once they get used A) to thinking of information as valuable and b) thinking of contacts as sources of information they'll be more likely to go seek that info later.
Have them THINK, very key. Also, information is valuable. If they start thinking that information is currency, then they will start demanding more.
The Johnson can be used to help newbie players out. He can provide passkeys, fake uniforms., and even fully detailed plans. And in your particular case, he can out right suggest different information avenues that should be explored for the run. As your players get more experienced and as the runs start paying more, the Johnsons can be less helpful.
Once they know the general outline of a few runs, start taking information away from them. No more plans, no more free legwork, if they are used to it they will start asking where it is or how to fill in the gaps. Repetition helps.
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The Johnson can be used to help newbie players out. He can provide passkeys, fake uniforms., and even fully detailed plans. And in your particular case, he can out right suggest different information avenues that should be explored for the run. As your players get more experienced and as the runs start paying more, the Johnsons can be less helpful.
The Fixer who set up the meeting with the Johnson can fill the same role if you prefer. This way you can reach the same goal, but keep the image if the icy all business Mr. Johnson. The Fixer might pride himself on going the extra mile and not just setting up meets, but also following up with his talent and making sure the job is done right. After all, his rep is on the line.
I used this approach when I ran my group of newbie runners through. The group was put together by a veteran runner turned fixer and he walked them through the first mission and slowly started letting them do everything else for themselves as time went on. By the forth or fifth mission they were going to the meet, doing the legwork and making the plans by themselves. After the fifth run, the mentor would only show up if they requested his help... everything else was on the group.
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Just as a thought. Try watching Strange Days in addition to being a great cyberpunk movie, the entire plot is set up by the sort of reverse legwork that's been mentioned in several places here (the contact drops a recording in the main characters car which sets in motion the whole movie.)
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Just as a thought. Try watching Strange Days in addition to being a great cyberpunk movie, the entire plot is set up by the sort of reverse legwork that's been mentioned in several places here (the contact drops a recording in the main characters car which sets in motion the whole movie.)
GREAT twisted movie for it's time! Very much "shadowrun"esk
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I ran my group through ashes, from sprawl wilds, recently. Sometimes they used their knowledge skills, but they never really pressed for any information. They went to the meet with no questions asked, they took the job(s) with no questions asked, and did a couple things on the side with minimal information. Coming from a mainly DND background, I think this is from a habit formed from the difference in the systems/scenarios.
I'd like to lightly encourage them to check people out, without screwing them over by ... well having them screwed over from not checking; some positive reinforcement for checking something out before rushing head long into it. Should I insert hours of time between when they need to do things? Should I weave a hint into the job offer? I'd like them to be more proactive in information gathering.
had a bit of this with new players myself, i managed it by having their contacts give them the first run and staying in contact, dropping hints and being available for questions. as the contact is assumed to be friendly/have a bond with the char already i found it gives you plenty of leeway to be over-generous with information. rewarding the right behaviours ie matrix searches with old aerial photographs of target building (thankyou google maps) but being explicit that the image is old and probably out of date, starts leading them to think of maybe doing a recce on the building for up-to-date info or trying to ask the contact if they know anyone who works there etc.
i find its all about positive reinforcement. drop the hints that they should scout out, give them plenty of time and then when they start digging, start rewarding them with useful + relevant info. it wont take long before it becomes the norm, then you can dial the assistance back a few notches.
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I run every group through a run designed as a tutorial. The run teaches them how to use all their skills including research. I let them explore the world and coach them through the options. SR supports roleplaying and research like few other games. Overt teaching of this may be needed.