Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: OneofSorrow on <09-30-13/1732:52>
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Need some advice on how to deal with a particular problem that I have come across. Now I admit I am a nice person by nature and I hate to tell someone no and I like strange and unusual thing but one of my players, using 4th edition rules. Made a character and it just happens to be a vampire. Now I warned him that he would have to hide his condition from about everyone and their mother cause of a hefty 75,000 nuyen bounty on his head and he says he can handle it but this and I was hoping to ask for advice on how to make it challenging for a team that has a vampire on it. Any advice would be helpful.
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Wooden weapons.
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First, be aware that ghouls and vampires seem to be getting more feral. Even the normally sane ones realize that their grip on reality is slipping... what that means for 5e is that ghouls and vampires MAY NOT be playable characters! (Have to wait for the runners companion to see for sure)
IF this player has a history of being a problem player, then my first impulse would be to say "Make a character by 5e rules. Thanks."
If you really wish to let him start off with a vampire, then consider the following:
Essence: its what vampires eat. They lose 1 essence(magic) per week. The only way to get this essence back is to feed it off from someone else. .. and that person loses thst essence permanently! Even a vampire that goes 2 weeks with out eating is readonably healthy... but he is going to be hungry!! Kinda like you are if you don't eat for 24 hours..
mist form for PC vampires only affects HIM and not his equipment. That is left in a pool on the floor.
called shots to the head can NOT be regenerated.
UV exposeure does damage per allergy rules... brush up on them! Oh and UV filtration IS used in HVAC systems to cheaply filter and purify air of contaminants.
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Consider carefully before you move ahead.
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Agreed with considering it carefully. If you think it's going to mess your game up then just don't allow it. Don't allow it when you hate it, then later pick on him.
I'd treat it like if a player were playing a character who is a serial killer on the side. Most of the time, assuming the character has some skills nothing goes wrong and the vampire gets their essence snacks. This cuts down on bookkeeping. But every once in a while there are problems and twists releated to their snacking. And sometimes you might use it as a springboard for adventures. Maybe the person snacked was a loved one of someone dangerous or influential.
By the way, when I saw that title all I could think of is that the world is a vampire.
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Also keep in mind that if there are Vampires there should also exist a whacko sect that has become hell bend on the destruction of those abominations, also dragons particularly hate Vampires they are some of the few creatures that could kill them by making just 6 points of unresisted essence drain, make it hard for him to hunt, if he is shot on a mission and receives physical damage the presence of the virus will be a "Huge" signal for the corps or other groups and a forewarning for future attacks. Be creative, being a Vampire is cool but you are on the sixth world one news photo or video or something and he will have gropies and assasins on his tail (effectively terminating his carrear)
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Also keep in mind that if there are Vampires there should also exist a whacko sect that has become hell bend on the destruction of those abominations
Like hunters... or a blonde adept ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpQud1vlni8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpQud1vlni8)
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Also keep in mind that if there are Vampires there should also exist a whacko sect that has become hell bend on the destruction of those abominations
Like hunters... or a blonde adept ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpQud1vlni8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpQud1vlni8)
SO MUCH YES! sonsaku you just made my day! now i will have to create an Adept Buffy! XD Oh this will be epic!
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...also dragons particularly hate Vampires they are some of the few creatures that could kill them by making just 6 points of unresisted essence drain...
Dragons (and some other critters) are not limited to only have a 6 Essence - in fact, most in the SR5 book have 10 Essence.
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Be creative, being a Vampire is cool but you are on the sixth world one news photo or video or something and he will have gropies and assasins on his tail.
Awsome ideas about the vampire groupies. Give him something like a cross between goth kids and the people on the Following. Vampire posers? Hahah.
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...also dragons particularly hate Vampires they are some of the few creatures that could kill them by making just 6 points of unresisted essence drain...
Dragons (and some other critters) are not limited to only have a 6 Essence - in fact, most in the SR5 book have 10 Essence.
Ok sorry i was thinking in SR4 my knowledge of SR5 is minimal at best!
Be creative, being a Vampire is cool but you are on the sixth world one news photo or video or something and he will have gropies and assasins on his tail.
Awsome ideas about the vampire groupies. Give him something like a cross between goth kids and the people on the Following. Vampire posers? Hahah.
In my SR4 World there is an Urban Brawl super star that happens to be a Public Vampire, he seeked refuge in the media, and also come on! its a perfect sport for him, he gets to eat his opponents and a few bites from his groopies that would love to gave (man and woman alike) to himself.
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Ok sorry i was thinking in SR4 my knowledge of SR5 is minimal at best!
The generic Great Dragon in SR4A (not one of the named ones) has 12 Essence.
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Ok sorry i was thinking in SR4 my knowledge of SR5 is minimal at best!
The generic Great Dragon in SR4A (not one of the named ones) has 12 Essence.
SR4 not yet SR4A (i have it but im reading first the SR4 Basic Core) and a Dragon (normal not greater) has 6+1d6 and a Great has 12 Essence, considering the average dragon has 18 Physical wounds cope up with Magical armor if not hardened, also with the sheer might of a dragon they are at least titanic targets. Vampires are the only creatures that can drain essesnce in a rather alarming rate, also essense loss is permanent wich will diminish the dragons magic, also a dragon in metahuman form or sleeping are easy preys of this kind of attack, i don't say its easy but is a viable way, almost the only viable way that dosen't involve some serious hardware or some instant death draining spell.
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There are some things that I do think should be brought back from older editions. One of which applies to this thread.
1: The restriction that Ghouls are the only playable Infected.
2: 'Ground up' vehicle creation rules.
3: 'Ground up' weapon creation rules.
4: Dikote
5: 2nd edition Initiative. (similar to what is in 5th, but not quite)
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1: The restriction that Ghouls are the only playable Infected.
Or they could stick the character options that don't balance well with core in a separate and clearly labelled section.
*edit* Actually, I don't agree with any of them.
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There are some things that I do think should be brought back from older editions. One of which applies to this thread.
1: The restriction that Ghouls are the only playable Infected.
2: 'Ground up' vehicle creation rules.
3: 'Ground up' weapon creation rules.
4: Dikote
5: 2nd edition Initiative. (similar to what is in 5th, but not quite)
you got to be kidding me with #5 right? Right???
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There are some things that I do think should be brought back from older editions. One of which applies to this thread.
1: The restriction that Ghouls are the only playable Infected.
2: 'Ground up' vehicle creation rules.
3: 'Ground up' weapon creation rules.
4: Dikote
5: 2nd edition Initiative. (similar to what is in 5th, but not quite)
you got to be kidding me with #5 right? Right???
He is not. The argument has been done properly to death.
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I like 2 and 3, don't understand 4 and 5 and not liking the 1st, First of all Vampires are indeed quite powerfull, but at the same time they have the same restrictions as any other metahuman, Dragons are not easy targets and neither are high value targets, UV light is dirt common in the Sixth World and used in many of the daily transactions, also thanks to their lack of oxygen dismay they can be capture rather easy. However i would be very strict, each victim he consumes has the probability of being someone cherished by someone, maybe a brother that happens to know gun fu, or even the daughter of a powerfull megacorp father that was so busy working that he forgot her daughter and now wishes to kill the bastard who rape the soul of her little princess, the posibilities for Roleplaying and good histories are just to good to pass, also i deal with power players with masses of oponents or with a bit of clever thinking, make him have sudden psycotic breaks and make him feel that he is loosing his grip and he will start searching for a cure or some form of atunement, wich could be a campaing on its own.
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I like 2 and 3, don't understand 4 and 5 and not liking the 1st, First of all Vampires are indeed quite powerfull, but at the same time they have the same restrictions as any other metahuman, Dragons are not easy targets and neither are high value targets, UV light is dirt common in the Sixth World and used in many of the daily transactions, also thanks to their lack of oxygen dismay they can be capture rather easy. However i would be very strict, each victim he consumes has the probability of being someone cherished by someone, maybe a brother that happens to know gun fu, or even the daughter of a powerfull megacorp father that was so busy working that he forgot her daughter and now wishes to kill the bastard who rape the soul of her little princess, the posibilities for Roleplaying and good histories are just to good to pass, also i deal with power players with masses of oponents or with a bit of clever thinking, make him have sudden psycotic breaks and make him feel that he is loosing his grip and he will start searching for a cure or some form of atunement, wich could be a campaing on its own.
Vampire PCs just aren't conducive to a cohesive party. With how they tend to have bounties on them, the rest of the team may very well be looking at a bigger payday killing the Vampire PC and collecting than doing whatever run is put forth.
And then there's the virus... It hasn't had much detail so far in 5th, but in 4th (since there is the lack of information for the current) it was Contact vector and the Power was such that it was unlikely that even a max Body Troll would avoid getting infected.
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The ghoul strain was contact vector, with fluff that specifically said contact with open wounds. The vampire strain was different. At least represent it properly.
On bounties; if the rest of the team has never had a bounty put on them, and there's no honour among thieves, then that's your group dynamic. Not everyone else's.
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The ghoul strain was contact vector, with fluff that specifically said contact with open wounds. The vampire strain was different. At least represent it properly.
I probably was thinking of the Ghoul one, but that would be an argument against even Ghouls being playable (don't cut yourself shaving if you have a Ghoul teammate).
Admittedly, with all the zombie and vampire stuff that has permeated books, movies, video games and television the past several years, I'm beyond tired of all of them, and anything similar draws every ounce of hatred my mind can muster.
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He is not. The argument has been done properly to death.
Ah, but it regenerates. Just like a vampire, hahah.
Fugue states and feeding frenzies sounds like a good idea. They can avoid some of the feeding blowback when they are in control by feeding on the Sinless. Less shot of angry rich guy. Might get more angry criminal types though unless you purposely focus on helpless squatter camps.
Bounties aren't a huge issue, as you are already trusting your team with your life by running with them. However, player morals and such are worries. Even amoral types are going to think twice on trusting a known vampire. It's both a moral and a survival issue. You're already engaging in dangerous crimes. Do you really want to complicate it by making one of your teammates the equivalent of a giant bloodsucking mosquito?
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Bounties aren't a huge issue, as you are already trusting your team with your life by running with them. However, player morals and such are worries. Even amoral types are going to think twice on trusting a known vampire. It's both a moral and a survival issue. You're already engaging in dangerous crimes. Do you really want to complicate it by making one of your teammates the equivalent of a giant bloodsucking mosquito?
Just because you work with someone under dangerous situations, doesn't mean you actually trust them with anything. In my group, the majority response to the hacker going "slave your commlinks to me! they'll be safer!" has been "eeeeeeee".
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Which is odd, as the combat types get trusted with the team's lives.
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So, as I understand it you are playing 4th Ed? I would have a good long conversation with this player before he ultimately makes his character. Something to the tune of "You can do this, but being a subspecies that is almost universally reviled in polite society is going to be challenging at best. Also, it presents a LOT of technical obstacles in just how to live day to day, on top of being a Shadowrunner".
Basically instead of simply blanket saying "NO" to all player requests in any game I run, I try and think of if it's reasonably possible to do what the player is asking, and a lot of times it isn't. In this case, it would be possible for A player(not necessarily the power-gamer you described) to do this, but beyond mechanics let's look at what it would require.
1) They have to maintain a low-attention lifestyle, as almost all Runners do. Additionally, their lifestyle would have to be modified based on their living requirements considerably(No UV light, likely out of sight of most normal metahumans, etc).
2) They have to secure a clandestine way of acquiring food regularly, food obviously being people. Now, if they're smart, they could set up and scout ahead for homeless, SINless people, vagrant communities, etc, definitely doable, but just takes time and preparation.
If he establishes the above in some decent manner, then comes the issues with being a Vampire and Shadowrunning.
1) As with the aforementioned distrust of Vampires, he will need to find a way of contacting Mr Johnsons who are willing to work with him. Granted, with a team this is easier, as another person can secure the job and leave him out of that aspect. However, if a Johnson who has a hate-on for the undead finds out he's on the team, there could be fallout afterwards, betrayal, etc.
2) All Runners try to actively avoid getting spotted on a job, data trails, getting their face on a camera, etc, however a Vampire would have this multiplied. He not only has to worry about being identified as a member of the SINless community of Runners for hire, but as a very real and present threat within said community. Yes, sometimes certain Vampires and Ghouls and such are more accepted by other denizens of the shadows, but not always. Getting made on a job for him would be magnitudes worse than for another member of the team, in all likelihood.
3) Let's assume for a moment the team gets screwed by a Johnson, or a run goes wrong, or somehow they get Lone Star/Knight Errant/etc after them. For regular Runners, this may constitute a detective investigating and asking questions, or a private eye watching them for someone, or maybe even S.W.A.T. kicking in their door if shit gets really real. Now, add an anonymous tip in that one of the suspects is a Vampire. Immediately you likely have a High Threat Response team, backup ready at the drop of a hat, etc. Basically, threats like that are taken seriously. So for him, when it rains, it pours.
Sorry to rant, but these are all reasonable considerations your player SHOULD have. If he is ready to deal with them, and is willing to play smart and make preparations and plan ahead, it can absolutely work, and he might have the time of his gaming life. Might also go horribly, horribly wrong for him in a very short amount of time.
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Having read all the board feedback, which I thank everyone for, I am going to have a little sit down with the player and make this very clear. If he still wants to go through with this after the abundant information that Magnaric and others have given me he is going to be in for a rough run because of being a hemovore.
If he still wants to go through with it I won't stop, he is just going to have to be extra careful about being as covert about his powers as possible.
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Having read all the board feedback, which I thank everyone for, I am going to have a little sit down with the player and make this very clear. If he still wants to go through with this after the abundant information that Magnaric and others have given me he is going to be in for a rough run because of being a hemovore.
If he still wants to go through with it I won't stop, he is just going to have to be extra careful about being as covert about his powers as possible.
I think a better qyestion might be "why play a vampire?"
To which (if you dig a little) will end up being: "cause with mist form I can go anywhere to escape or break in, and with regeneration I am unkillable!!"
And thst is not a conductive attitude for a team based game.
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Just a note to the title of this thread...
OP: You are lucky that you dont have to deal with Vampire character, those are quite overpovered. Vampire players, on the other hand...
;D ;D ;D
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On the trust issue. You aren't just trusting them to fight with you. You're trusting them not to rat. You're trusting them to spot dangers accurately and report them to you accurately. You might have to live for days and weeks in a safehouse with them and you have to sleep sometime.a (Yikes, just realized how crazy that would be with a vampire)
The ratting issue is huge. You're entering a criminal conspiracy. You wouldn't even sell pot with people you didn't trust.
Not that it is impossible. Just the trust barrier is higher. I wouldn't say toss a vamp in with a random group of runners as games are often set up. There's a good chance the vamp would be attacked or the like.
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I believe it's not unreasonable for characters to draw the trust line at "He thinks of me as food."
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On the trust issue. You aren't just trusting them to fight with you. You're trusting them not to rat. You're trusting them to spot dangers accurately and report them to you accurately. You might have to live for days and weeks in a safehouse with them and you have to sleep sometime.a (Yikes, just realized how crazy that would be with a vampire)
The ratting issue is huge. You're entering a criminal conspiracy. You wouldn't even sell pot with people you didn't trust.
Not that it is impossible. Just the trust barrier is higher. I wouldn't say toss a vamp in with a random group of runners as games are often set up. There's a good chance the vamp would be attacked or the like.
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The Vamp is ash.
Just saying :P
When I play, I usually play a mage. And the FIRST time a run went south and I was faced with having to shack up in a safe house for 3 weeks to a month with a fucking VAMPIRE for the heat to die down? Yep, ASH! The first day. While it was Hybernating it would be targeted with an other cast, Edge enforced flamethrower (NO regenerating THAT, vampie!!!).
After all, we are not talking about just an other professional criminal here, we are talking about a highly skilled, trained MONSTER that eats the souls (essence) of PEOPLE. and now it's locked up in a safehouse..... with me... a juicy, essence filled juicebox as the only food at hand....
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On the trust issue. You aren't just trusting them to fight with you. You're trusting them not to rat. You're trusting them to spot dangers accurately and report them to you accurately. You might have to live for days and weeks in a safehouse with them and you have to sleep sometime.a (Yikes, just realized how crazy that would be with a vampire)
The ratting issue is huge. You're entering a criminal conspiracy. You wouldn't even sell pot with people you didn't trust.
Not that it is impossible. Just the trust barrier is higher. I wouldn't say toss a vamp in with a random group of runners as games are often set up. There's a good chance the vamp would be attacked or the like.
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The Vamp is ash.
Just saying :P
When I play, I usually play a mage. And the FIRST time a run went south and I was faced with having to shack up in a safe house for 3 weeks to a month with a fucking VAMPIRE for the heat to die down? Yep, ASH! The first day. While it was Hybernating it would be targeted with an other cast, Edge enforced flamethrower (NO regenerating THAT, vampie!!!).
After all, we are not talking about just an other professional criminal here, we are talking about a highly skilled, trained MONSTER that eats the souls (essence) of PEOPLE. and now it's locked up in a safehouse..... with me... a juicy, essence filled juicebox as the only food at hand....
That pretty much covers it. Graphically...
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The Player should probably be prepared and have a secondary charachter available, as imo it's not a matter of if is charachter will die but when, it's just too much of a target. He might last for quite a long time, but eventually the wrong person is going to catch on and catch up with him.
There's also the posiblity of the Vamp charachter becoming to much of a focus of the group making it less fun for the other player's.
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ash
That pretty much covers it. Graphically...
If this is the case, you might want to have some more powerful groups on either side of the asher / ashee line - types that would be very unhappy if their respective backed runners disappeared. Enough so that they would make life difficult for the surviving party. It's not a complete solution, but it's a deterrent.
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ash
That pretty much covers it. Graphically...
If this is the case, you might want to have some more powerful groups on either side of the asher / ashee line - types that would be very unhappy if their respective backed runners disappeared. Enough so that they would make life difficult for the surviving party. It's not a complete solution, but it's a deterrent.
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when the chips are down and you perceive it to be "Him or me".... "ME" usually wins out, regardless of the future consiquences.
and really, the Vamp player BETTER expect it. Simply by playing the snowflake, he is screaming "MEMEMEMEMEMMEMEMEMEMEME! <gasp> MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!!" so yea, the other players at the table just might go "Screw you, vampie. Hello Payday!!" at the first opportunity... or they may wait till they feel they have no choice.
And remember. about 99% of player Charcater runners (and about 80 to90% of fiction runners) are several (dozen) bricks short of a full load.... and the only reason they DON'T commit mass murder before lunch is that they can't carry that much ammo....so wasting a Vamp, collecting $75,000 and calling it a day?? very plausible.