Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Rotor on <10-06-13/1659:09>
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"Most vehicles and drones come factory-equipped with a sensor array" Is there somewhere a list of vehicles that don't have a sensor array? If not, is it unreasonable to assume that all vehicles but micro-drones have a sensor array, micro-drones being able to house up to 3 sensors (like a handheld device)?
Also, since a sensor array contains 8 sensors, and the sensor function table p 446 proposes 13 choices, how do I decide which ones a particular car or bike has? Must they be chosen once when the car is bought or can the be "reconfigured" freely between runs? Ah, and can you buy a 7 rating array to replace the factory-equipped one?
Thanks again! The game is great but the rules are often maddening by their imprecision (for me!) and this forum is really a godsend!
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I would love to know an answer to this as well, I'm currently GMing our first 5th edition game and we have both a vehicle and drone rigger. The book really seems to have skimmed over these areas a great deal, and any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Rating 3 is the max for small drones or smaller. The starting array rating is basically always 3; contents should be decided by the purchasing player so far as I can tell.
Me, I have a couple of other questions: How do you improve the Sensor rating of a drone/vehicle that can take a larger array, like the Steel Lynx or Bulldog? Do you pay the cost of the new array? Pay the difference? It seems like a pretty important question, because Sensor rating can matter a great deal.
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I've seen people interpret the sensor array rules so that a sensor array rating (3) has space for three sensors at rating (3). So usually you have to choose some like:
Rating 3 Camera (thermographic vision, vision enhancement, vision magnification)
Rating 3 microphone
Rating 3 some other specific sensor or a laser microphone
Seems to make for more interesting choices, rather than just everything having cyberware scanners and ultrasound everywhere. Just my two cents.
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That doesn't seem to be what the rules say, though - and frankly it makes the lower Sensor ratings far more problematic than they should be. And the choices are already interesting - things like Motion Sensors are very useful choices for things that might need to be left unattended, like vehicles.
Another interesting question, to me - what's the largest wearable sensor array? Seems to me that 2075 fashion could readily incorporate more than just the handheld sensor.
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Me, I have a couple of other questions: How do you improve the Sensor rating of a drone/vehicle that can take a larger array, like the Steel Lynx or Bulldog? Do you pay the cost of the new array? Pay the difference? It seems like a pretty important question, because Sensor rating can matter a great deal.
On character creation I would say that you pay the difference. If you're in play then you pay for the new one and try to fence the old one to recoup costs since the implication is that you're replacing hardware.
Your table's GM might decide differently, however.
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Here's how it works under the basic rules. While it says "most", this is more to say "it's not physically impossible to get a vehicle or drone without one."
They come with a sensor array of a rating equal to the Sensor rating of the drone (for this argument, drones also include vehicles) as listed on pages 463, 465, and 466. While 4th edition had listed in an expansion what "comes standard" in a vehicle, as is, it is not listed anywhere. I would allow a player to pick what functions come in it, especially for drones.
In 4th edition, it was 2 Cameras (front and back), 2 Laser Range Finders (front + back), Atmosphere Sensor, 2 Motion Sensors (pointless in 5th), and a "Radar" which isn't its own function in SR5. I'd probably remove a motion sensor and replace that and the 'radar' with... I dunno, Olfactory and Ultrasound.
I don't believe they can be freely reconfigured; while each function doesn't change the price, it doesn't say anything to suggest you could do that in the book.
You can, however, buy a new one to replace the factory-standard one. The chart on 446 tells you the maximum Sensor Rating for the given drone. A car could go to 7, yes, though remember that during character creation, you cannot have anything higher than Rating 6. Things smaller than a car get different maximum ratings. Motorcycle is 6, Large Drone is 5, Medium 4, etc.
And to be specific, yes, ALL drones have a sensor array. An array. Handheld-devices can hold 3 single-sensors because they have a capacity of 3, unrelated to their maximum sensor rating. Small or smaller drones have a full sensory array despite their size, but that is because it is a vital part of their construction.
A Sensor Array is eight sensor functions, taking up 6 total capacity (when added to things it that do not already include one) and allowing the user to replace Perception with Electronic Warfare in certain situations. A Handheld Sensor Housing only has 3 Capacity, and so can only include three separate Single Sensors, each with one function and taking up 1 capacity.
Another interesting question, to me - what's the largest wearable sensor array? Seems to me that 2075 fashion could readily incorporate more than just the handheld sensor.
I could see an argument for a R5 being able to be put in armor as an armor modification. If it fits in a limb, you figure it could fit spread out inside an armor vest or something. Though something nice to know would be how big exactly "wall-mounted" is supposed to be. I have a few picture frames that are huge in my house, but also a few that, if I could roll them up like a poster, would totally be reasonable to fit sewn into the back of a coat or something. I dunno.
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In 4th edition, it was 2 Cameras (front and back), 2 Laser Range Finders (front + back), Atmosphere Sensor, 2 Motion Sensors (pointless in 5th), and a "Radar" which isn't its own function in SR5.
Now that is interesting! When everything has an ultrasound sensor, olfactory sensor, cyberware scanner, and laser microphone.... yaaaaawn.
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With regard to front/back positioning on sensors, I don't think that's much of an issue for Sensor Arrays - there's no rules for directionality there, and given that Rating 8 is for a freaking building I don't think there's any intention for there to be such.
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With regard to front/back positioning on sensors, I don't think that's much of an issue for Sensor Arrays - there's no rules for directionality there, and given that Rating 8 is for a freaking building I don't think there's any intention for there to be such.
I agree, I don't think it's necessary anymore. It would be very, very useful to have what comes standard though... I mean, if every drone now has a radio signal scanner that's a huge deal. Or every vehicle having ultrasound. 'Cause it's not like it's any harder or more expensive to find a sensor that has a cyberware scanner than it is to find one that's just a microphone.
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With regard to front/back positioning on sensors, I don't think that's much of an issue for Sensor Arrays - there's no rules for directionality there, and given that Rating 8 is for a freaking building I don't think there's any intention for there to be such.
I agree, I don't think it's necessary anymore. It would be very, very useful to have what comes standard though... I mean, if every drone now has a radio signal scanner that's a huge deal. Or every vehicle having ultrasound. 'Cause it's not like it's any harder or more expensive to find a sensor that has a cyberware scanner than it is to find one that's just a microphone.
That said, a cyberware scanner is of pretty limited usefulness on a drone or vehicle.
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Yeah but there are only thirteen sensors listed, and some of them are not very useful. I mean would you prefer to have a geiger counter on your airborne drone? Is there much in game use for a laser range finder? When people put 8 sensors on drones I always see they have things like MAD scanners and cyberware scanners.
I imagine things will get more interesting when the rigger book comes out.
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Well, 1+ camera, 1+ omni-mic, 1 laser mic, motion sensor, atmosphere sensor, radio signal scanner, ultrasound, and the laser range finder...
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That is very reasonable. It will be interesting to see how the rules develop. I mean real life drones have to have certain sensors to operate and they aren't good at navigating by camera. If you had to take atmospheric sensors on an airborne drone and certain things like that, it could be pretty cool. Maybe a laser range finder to navigate indoors.
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A certain amount of the thinking there is that the atmo sensor is that knowing in advance when conditions are going to shift can be very, very useful to a runner - when the wind is going to change and make combat more difficult, or when rain's going to come on and make vehicle stuff harder or make it easier to slip away, that kind of thing. The atmospheric sensor can provide some pretty critically useful information, after all, and having that as an edge on the enemy is a damn good thing. It also enables your drones to report back things like dangerous gasses, which can be life-saving.
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I've seen people interpret the sensor array rules so that a sensor array rating (3) has space for three sensors at rating (3). So usually you have to choose some like:
Rating 3 Camera (thermographic vision, vision enhancement, vision magnification)
Rating 3 microphone
Rating 3 some other specific sensor or a laser microphone
Seems to make for more interesting choices, rather than just everything having cyberware scanners and ultrasound everywhere. Just my two cents.
That's rather the silly interpretation. A Sensor Array always has 8 Sensors, after all, the rules state that explicitly. As for the stuff in the camera, I'd charge you extra for that as GM. And I'd advice a second camera and a second microphone, or an omni-directional microphone, so that your drone won't as easily get hit in the back.
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Yeah sometimes when people complain about rules it's because they haven't thought of all the implications. I was guilty in this case.
I wouldn't make people pay extra to get cameras though. I would encourage more than one camera, as those seem like interesting choices to me. I mean particularly on a combat drone, it might be nice to have three or four cameras. Maybe one "targeting" camera, with smart link, thermographic vision, and vision magnification. Then night time and day time "spotting cameras" with vision enhancements.
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Here's the thing: That cheap-ass drone, and the expensive one? They both come with cameras. But those cameras don't have their capacity used yet, they're just cameras. If you want to enhance the cameras, well that's gonna cost you. That target-camera of yours won't come out of the factory with any enhancement, not at those costs. SL+TV is already 2500 nuyen worth, that won't come for free. Especially since normal drones don't need it.
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With regard to front/back positioning on sensors, I don't think that's much of an issue for Sensor Arrays - there's no rules for directionality there, and given that Rating 8 is for a freaking building I don't think there's any intention for there to be such.
I agree, I don't think it's necessary anymore. It would be very, very useful to have what comes standard though... I mean, if every drone now has a radio signal scanner that's a huge deal. Or every vehicle having ultrasound. 'Cause it's not like it's any harder or more expensive to find a sensor that has a cyberware scanner than it is to find one that's just a microphone.
That said, a cyberware scanner is of pretty limited usefulness on a drone or vehicle.
Maybe not on a rotor-drone high up but a small fly-spy can probably land nearby or scan while passing overhead unobtrusively to see who's got wires and/or other chrome going.
Yeah but there are only thirteen sensors listed, and some of them are not very useful. I mean would you prefer to have a geiger counter on your airborne drone? Is there much in game use for a laser range finder? When people put 8 sensors on drones I always see they have things like MAD scanners and cyberware scanners.
I imagine things will get more interesting when the rigger book comes out.
Geiger counters might not be useful for drones but I can certainly see it being useful to integrate into any armor you don't have radiation shielding in. If you don't have protection against radiation it's rather useful to know where not to go if you don't want to get too irradiated. It goes along the same lines of an atmosphere sensor, being aware of your surroundings.
Laser range finder is for not having to roll a perception test to eyeball a distance in rough estimates (so you can accurately stand the full 100m away to use that laser microphone) and also not needing to pull your smartgun to use its rangefinder instead which might cause all sorts of problems being caught brandishing a weapon might entail.
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A Sensor Array always has 8 Sensors, after all, the rules state that explicitly.
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Page 445. Sensor array: This sensor package includes up to eight functions...
I imagine that regular vehicles only have what sensors are required for grid guide; cameras, atmosphere sensor, laser rangefinders, and a microphone for voice commands. Your average Americar doesn't need anything else. Clearly, a rigger will want to tweak them out and install their own sensors.
Drones dont need anything else for navigation either. Certainly, specialized drones will include more sensor functions.
As far as sensor ratings and armor, if you can fit it into a cyberlimb, you can build it into your armor. I cap armor sensors at rating 5. I believe Run&Gun suggests your can add sensors to armor under the armor accessories section, but im away from my books. The head wear ultrasound cyber gives you up to rating 6, even, going one step beyond the sensor rules. Theoretically a cyber arm could hold two full sensor arrays.