Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: primitive on <10-07-13/0938:21>
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Hello all. I'm a newbie GM whose been running a game with 5 players for the last few months. For the most part, everything has been pretty smooth despite us being occasionally bogged down in looking up a few rules.
However, one of the players is in the game because her boyfriend is also playing, and so far, she's become somewhat of an impediment. Her character is essentially a Face, and while she's been doing a good job with that, anytime that she's not actively part of a mission (like combat, for instance), she will start talking over the gameplay, particularly with the technomancer player who also tends to not be actively engaged in what's going on at that particular moment.
This is particularly problematic as one of the other players (a covert ops specialist) is using skype to play, as she lives in another city. So when the problematic Face starts talking, she can't hear anything that's happening at all.
It's also gotten to the point that starting to play the game at all has become difficult, because the Face literally will not stop talking about her job, school, etc. During the last session, which was about four hours long, we only got to the mission in the last 40 minutes despite the fact that there was very little legwork.
So, what is the best course of action in a situation where a player is less interested in playing, and more interested in hanging out?
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Talk politely with the player about your concerns, ask politely if the behavior you dislike can be curbed, or if there is something that you can do to help keep the player engaged in the game rather than acting against it.
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I'll second the suggestion for a polite conversation away from the table.
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I've actually talked about it a couple times with her, as has her boyfriend, but it's still happening. Will do again, but if it still continues, what then? Reduce karma, maybe?
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I'd avoid that. Maybe just ask her if she can take the conversation to the other room?
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Might take some extra creativity, or giving the charachter a few extra's (karma, nuyen, mysterious benefactor) to make the charachter more active in combat situations. Try to involve the player a bit more in these situations. Just make sure the rest of the group is ok with this, and don't go overboard.
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Out of curiousity, do you generally take a break inside that 4 hour session? May help to ask her to have those conversations during tne break. Also, if you've had the away from game discussion, maybe try politely telling her, when it starts up during the game, that this is what you were talking about and could she maybe keep it quiet, take it into another room, or hold on until later when you can all be part of the conversation. Also, have you mentioned thus far the specific reasons why it's a problem? If not, she might not be fully aware of it.
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Yes, I would avoid giving in-game sanctions like loss of karma for out of game actions. In my experience it very rarely helps anything.
Also, private discussion is better than just saying it in front of everyone else, because public humiliation doesn't solve anything but then again you have already talked to her. I also think it is best to let her know why she should keep it quiet.
Of course it would be best to find a way to actually drag her character even for those combat situations to keep her focused on game. On the other hand if nothing else seem to work, minimize the damages. Put her and the other player next to each other as far away from the microphone as possible :-)
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Yes, I would avoid giving in-game sanctions like loss of karma for out of game actions. In my experience it very rarely helps anything.
This is actually a very big point. You cannot solve an out-of-game problem with in-game solutions. Ever. At all. Just don't try it. Not even once.
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Yes, I would avoid giving in-game sanctions like loss of karma for out of game actions. In my experience it very rarely helps anything.
This is actually a very big point. You cannot solve an out-of-game problem with in-game solutions. Ever. At all. Just don't try it. Not even once.
Yep. Separating the GMs in game authority from out of game relationships is one of the most important building blocks in a GMs credibility. This goes hand in hand with not targetting a character in game for being obnoxious IRL.
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Agree on all of the above suggestions.
Quick question on, "not actively part of a mission (like combat)"...
I was presuming the character had combat-skills/gear and the player was simply talking when it wasn't their turn. But this wording made me wonder if the Face character might have been built without any combat skills/gear at all, and the player is unable to participate in combat.
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I've actually talked about it a couple times with her, as has her boyfriend, but it's still happening. Will do again, but if it still continues, what then? Reduce karma, maybe?
In your final discussion, I'd be straightforward that her behavior is inhibiting the play of the game (maybe call it what it is--rude) and the enjoyment of others. Specifically point out the impairment of the Skype players ability to communicate. Ask her what would help remind her to cut out the out of game chatter in game time.
I'd look at a character rebuild, if she's running a face like the archetype in the book, it could be a problem exacerbated by her boredom once the legwork is done. There's no reason the Face role cant be subsumed by another character type, especially mage types who often want to have a decent Charisma and willpower anyway, and that way she'd have something to do after the meet and legwork rolls are done.
'+1'' players who are only present because their significant other is there, can become more involved players, but they really have to somewhat enjoy the game. Ultimately, if they are not really into gaming, they are going to try and fill the game time with things they want to do, which is not compatible with a smooth running group.
I want to sound too mean, but the situation you describe--over 3 hours of everyone else's time being wasted is inexcusable, and its going to kill the group eventually. If its a choice of a smaller group, or a large group that can't play.....
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1. I agree with the breaks suggestion. 4 hours is a pretty tightly run game, but tighten it further. Try to make things go faster all around so that you can also fit in a break or two in that 4 hours, yet still get the same things done. (And get the same karma/rewards done, which is important to many players) It's a win/win because not only do you get the breaks in, but you take away excuses for non game related chatter.
2. Try to engage the rude player more. Or the boyfriend, since I assume he's more interested in the game. Now the most hamfisted and clumsy way to do this is to do something like shoot at them directly. Or to have an explosion or something shocking happen quite nearby. It's hamfisted, but it really works. Players rarely fail to show at least a little interest when their asses are directly on the line in some fashion. (Unless they have complete disdain for the game and zero investment in the character. At that point you are having serious issues) I used to just throw random encounters when the chatter got out of hand in my old fantasy games. Cheap trick, but it worked. It's important that you not view it as a punishment though or create the impression that it is such. Otherwise you look like a pelutant child and it causes worse problems. And it should be used sparingly, not constantly. It's something to do if other things are failing.
3. Like # 2, engage them, but use more subtle measures. Draw them in with customized stories that matter to their character's. Give them NPCs or locations they will like and then put those people or places into the story. If they like their character's home or some contact, then put them into the story. Engage them with money. Everyone's eyes light up when there's a 100,000 nuyen based on the outcome of the coming heist or battle. Sort of cheap, but engage them with shocks, such as the gruesome torture of some NPC they know by a campaign villian. (Yeah, what's left in the bathtub no longer looks like Charley)
4. Alter roles more. Watch the show Leverage, as not only do they do this constantly, but they even have the actual character classes shadowrun has, or fairly close. They even have the Face. Force the Face and Hacker into combat. Force the warriors and mages into social situations. Keep them guessing about what situations might come up. Make it appear like the situation is going to go as they expect, then pull a twist on them. They think the hacker and Face are safe in the back behind the warrior types, but a pack of ghouls is silently creeping up behind.
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Hello all. I'm a newbie GM whose been running a game with 5 players for the last few months. For the most part, everything has been pretty smooth despite us being occasionally bogged down in looking up a few rules.
However, one of the players is in the game because her boyfriend is also playing, and so far, she's become somewhat of an impediment. Her character is essentially a Face, and while she's been doing a good job with that, anytime that she's not actively part of a mission (like combat, for instance), she will start talking over the gameplay, particularly with the technomancer player who also tends to not be actively engaged in what's going on at that particular moment.
This is particularly problematic as one of the other players (a covert ops specialist) is using skype to play, as she lives in another city. So when the problematic Face starts talking, she can't hear anything that's happening at all.
It's also gotten to the point that starting to play the game at all has become difficult, because the Face literally will not stop talking about her job, school, etc. During the last session, which was about four hours long, we only got to the mission in the last 40 minutes despite the fact that there was very little legwork.
So, what is the best course of action in a situation where a player is less interested in playing, and more interested in hanging out?
This is one of the reasons I prefer a virtual table top with a text based system. You can still use skype but I would have players who wanted to talk directly to each other to whisper each other. Leave skype to actual gameplay. I don't even use skype the system I use is Maptools and it tells you when someone is typing so everyone can wait to see what they are typing.
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1. Involve her in combat. Keeping a highly differentiated team invested in the different parts of the game is a central task of a shadowrun GM.
2. If it persists, you will eventually need to address it explicitly at the table. Not in a confrontational way, but she may need help with identifying the actually disruptive volume and amount of chatter when it's occurring.
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1. Involve her in combat. Keeping a highly differentiated team invested in the different parts of the game is a central task of a shadowrun GM.
2. If it persists, you will eventually need to address it explicitly at the table. Not in a confrontational way, but she may need help with identifying the actually disruptive volume and amount of chatter when it's occurring.
Ya there actually should not be any point in time in which every character is receiving attention. That's a big GMing no no. Either create a situation where they are or something have them do anything. Even suspend belief if you have to. For instance 2 members of a 5 man party are off completing a situation they suddenly need back up but they are an hour away at some other location. Two combat rounds go about about 6 or 8 IPs bam there their, which is realistically in game terms mere minutes. How did they get there? Donno did 500mph I guess.
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One very simple thing that has helped tremendously (at least for us) in a similar situation was to seat the offending players as far from each other as possible on the table. Both parties are now more attentive and the game commences much more smoothly.
I certainly can't guarantee this will be helpful for you, but in our case that worked wonders. Even the involved players agree it's now much more enjoyable for them.
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This sounds more and more like a player personality issue. Which is the worst type of problem to try to deal with... You have a very social, chatty player :P
And, there is really not much that you can do about this as some people are just naturally chatty and social, and you are effectively trying to get them to change who they are at their core, something many people the world over just can not do.
the only thing I can think of is change how you lay out your missions so there is no downtime for ANY of the players. Now that is easy to write, but hard to do in practice. But here is a few examples.
Have the combat characters do observational overwatch during the meet when the face is active. (they could be looking for clues to their Johnson's identity by his manner, his clothing, his style of speech. Keeping an eye open for betrayal or ambush, etc)
During the combat times, have the technomancer and Face provide the Overwatch (thechnomancer keeping an eye out for matrix problems, the Face for physical security or problems..)
anything to keep ALL members of the party doing something and feeling important.
which means, yes, you will have to change the way you structure some events... So now, there will HAVE to be a hiccup in the matrix for the technomancer to deal with, or an unscheduled patrol that the face will have to deal with (and this doesn't mean combat... could be talking to them, acting as 'eye candy', impersonating an exec that needs their help..... try to keep it to things the face can ACTUALLY succeed at.)
Ahhh, the joys of being the GM ::)
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Why not just try telling her that her incessant talking is disrupting the game for everyone else? If she's a nice person she'll quiet down except when she forgets herself but a friendly reminder should be enough then and if she gets defensive and refuses to cange her behavior it might b time to ask her if she really wants to be in the group.
I would advise against restructuring your whole game to cater to one person who is disruptive.