Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Shadowjack on <10-15-13/1200:09>
-
One thing I always found odd in Shadowrun was Shadowrunners wearing full body armor or military armor. I picture Shadowrunners as wearing street armors like armor jackets or lined coats, that's the way the game is generally portrayed in the artwork in books. But in actual gameplay it is very common to see everyone running around in very heavy armor. As the game progresses, so does the challenge, which draws players towards these exceptional armors. The issue though is the price is very affordable to any experienced Shadowrunner in your typical campaign.
Now, I do realize that you can't simply wear these armors all the time, but in my experience you can often wear them during runs if you are clever about it. It's true that these armors are highly illegal but so are many other things a Shadowrunner typically has.
How do you guys feel about players using these armors? I wouldn't have a problem with it if it wasn't so prevalent.
-
I've never seen it in any game I've been in. Like the issues with heavy weapons this largely just comes down to style of play, but in my games Shadowrunners are usually operating in urban environments where walking around in Mil Spec Body Armor, like toting a heavy machine gun or panther cannon, is a good reason to run into additional complications from local law enforcement.
-
Crunch nails it on the head. Part of this is play style, but if your players are rolling around in milspec armor and loaded out for war all the time, law enforcement is going to be VERY interested in them. Even if the 'law enforcement' is the local syndicate.
Something I do (and encourage others to do as well) is have several load-outs. I generally have three to five different setups for armor/weapons, with changes made for what the actual run requires.
Casual - This is what you wear when you're not on the job, or have to blend in with the crowd. Name of the game is to look defended enough to deter random violence, but not drawing law enforcement attention. A lined coat or Urban Adventurer jumpsuit, with a pistol and a melee weapon if my character uses them.
Formal (optional) - When you gotta blend in with high society, etc. Armored clothes, Auctioneer's Business suit, etc. Weapons are again a predator at the heaviest. As far as melee, knucks or something else that can be hidden in a pocket, or possibly a sword or cane if you're awakened. Make heavy use of cover, and run like hell if anything really serious starts, until you can get into your real 'work clothes'.
Working - The stuff you typically take on a run. Lined coat, armored jacket, helmet, assault rifles, shotguns, backup weapons, possibly a couple grenades. Be reasonably prepared for what might happen.
Stealth (Optional) - Lined coat (electrochromatic) or chameleon suit (depending on how you do 'stealth'), silenced firearms and melee weapons. Gecko grip to crawl on ceilings. Surprise attacks, and then slip out of there. Run if you get into any serious trouble.
Wrath of God - This is where the milspec comes in. This is when 'subtle' is not an option, so you go with 'shock and awe'. Heavy armor, heavy weapons, grenades, rockets, explosives, strike hard, strike fast, and get out before HTR shows up.
-
I've tended to go for equipment loadouts like Mirikon presents, though this has changed for me in SRM Season 5 what with Chicago and everything.
For my street sam in Season 5, I'll be using two loadouts; Casual/Formal/Working, and Wrath of God (to steal Mirikon's terms).
The only time I've seen heavy weapons in recent games is in a gang-member type game in the Redmond Barrens, where my Troll ganger got a hold of an LMG and is currently wielding it with impunity.
-
Heavy weapons/armor in the campaigns I've run are essentially unheard of. The only time in recent memory a character of mine used heavy armor was during the Dragonsong CMPs, which are a bit of a meat grinder. You attract so much undue attention carrying that stuff around, it's almost never worth it.
EDIT: Mirikon's post reminded me that underbarrel grenade launchers on an Alpha and the semi-concealable grenade launchers are the exceptions. I've never had a player use a LMG (or heavier) weapon.
-
Well, one of those pistol or bullpup sized grenade launchers is nice to have, especially since you can swap the load to flash-bangs or tear gas if you want, but yeah, most of the time an LMG or higher is not really seen except as drone or vehicle weapons. One thing to mention is that your choice of transport can make a big difference in what you can take with you. Walking or riding a bike? That limits what you can do and not draw attention. Team's piling in a Bulldog? You can bring all the toys.
-
A lot of it is environmental as well.
In my games the players tend to live in the shadier end of low class neighborhoods or the barrens, but most valuable corp facilities tend to be in Higher Security Zones.
In my games it goes like this.
Barrens: You want to look protected but not dangerous. Visible light armor, Weapons up to shotgun/sport rifle level and any sort of melee weapon are allowable/desirable. There are no cops to speak of, but MilSpec Armor or heavy weapons may result in the local gang lord ambushing you to steal your gear, or "preemptively" attacking you to stop what must be an invasion of his turf.
Low: There are cops, occasionally, they won't look too close for concealed weapons or inspect licences too minutely. A partially concealed pistol, SMG or sawed off shotgun is probably acceptable, any civilian armor is fine. Mil spec gear, explosions or openly carried gear will garner attention, and if the cops respond in this area they are probably responding hard (you're not getting Officer Bob in his cruiser or a discreet Strato-9 tail, you're either getting nothing or a response team with backup).
Mid: Weapons should definitely be concealed and have good quality licenses. Obvious armor of any kind may make you look out of place and gauche. People who look too threatening/out of place may invite discreet surveillance.
High: Like Mid, but surveillance will be more proactive, SIN/license checks more frequent, and police more likely to respond to "outsiders". If you want to go stacked here you should consider a cover like "Private Security" or "Private Detective" to justify anything that you think the locals might spot.
Luxury: Gated community level security. Most buildings will have Cyber/Weapon/Chem scanners. Astral patrols in addition to physical and drone security. Outside contractors probably have to check in with the contracted Police agency even if totally legit. So if your bodyguard contract is with Knight Errant and your house is in a Lone Star Patrolled Luxury Zone, your bodyguard will probably spend a fair amount of time getting vetted by Lone Star. Anything beyond the most concealable weapon, or the most airtight alibi will attract attention.
-
I'm still struggling with underbarrel grenade launchers being illegal as a reason not to carry an Ares Alpha, but it's just so delicious. Still, concealing one is going to be hard with all the security mooks having (relatively) high perception skills.
-
Speaking of which, I want my SMG with the short barrel grenade launcher back. GOD I MISS MY APHRODITE IN 5TH
-
I'm glad to hear that these armors are not the norm. One issue I ran into in the past was acquiring a decent chunk of nuyen and not having much gear I wanted to spend it on. My character was a mystic adept who uses a shotgun and foci to sustain buffs. I didn't want any ware, I had as many good rating foci as I could hold. I had a vehicle and the equipment I needed, all of it didn't cost that much. So I ended up buying military armor, which I wasn't thrilled about but I wanted to buy something as all the other players were doing that. But then everyone got military armor because we could all afford it. Of course, it is powerful and unbalancing versus enemies without it, so the GM had the main villains use it as well. This was a while back, but it felt really odd.
That was the last campaign we played in 4th edition. Mathematically, the price point on military armor is so good that it is one of the best values in the game. So I was concerned that my group might continue to use military armor as a sort of end game armor choice. That's why I decided to make this thread, because I really don't want to see military much or even at all. Your replies have been helpful. I too like the idea of a more traditional style campaign without that kind of armor, although I'm still wondering about guns. Assault cannons, machine guns and sniper rifles, all very deadly and sort of unfair when compared to most other guns in the game. However, they do cost more money, so there is a level of balance. I suppose how serious these weapons would be treated would depend on the area they were used. But at the same time, it's not like pain editors and wired reflexes are difficult to spot, so why wouldn't law enforcement crack down on players using stuff like that as well? I mean, I'm sure they would in some games, but it seems like the people that posted here might be treating the legality of guns differently than ware or foci. I suppose guns are more apparent and thus easier to take action on, but some of the ware has extremely high availability ratings as well and some of it is also forbidden.
The reason I bring this up is I'm planning on starting a new campaign soon and I'm just wondering about how you guys said that heavy weapons were basically never seen in your games. I was a little surprised that no one had used a machine gun, or at least the occasional assault cannon. I mean, when doing a run inside many buildings there are sound proof walls, if you can sneak in an assault rifle, there is a good chance you can sneak in a machine gun. Not to mention how dangerous some runs can be, I'm surprised to see the word 'never' used.
-
Pain Editors and Wired Reflexes are actually VERY hard to spot. At most they would have an access point somewhere on the body.
-
Honestly, I've never had so much nuyen that I couldn't think of something to spend it on, even as a mage (which primarily advances through Karma). New fake SINs, moving up in Lifestyle, getting two or three extra lifestyles as safehouses/boltholes, backup weapons tricked out like you like, and so on. I mean, maybe if I had a couple million nuyen, I'd run out of ideas, but I'm not sure.
-
I agree, Mirikon, but you're essentially buying extras of everything you already have. I always felt it is very odd that the Street Samurai has a nearly endless amount of things to pour money into but characters that primarily advance through karma have much less options. But that's just me. In the campaign I mentioned, the Street Samurai had to spend the most time sifting through books to purchase gear while the other players were done pretty quickly as our options were much more limited.
Regarding Pain Editors and Wired Reflexes, I understand what you mean, but don't you think law enforcement would be able to easily spot people using these kinds of things when they exhibit very unnatural traits such as eating a large amount of lead or moving around at high speeds?
-
Yes, but then the flip side of that is that the mage is always desperate for karma while the sammy can fritter it away.
-
I always hear people say that but I always lust for more Karma on my Street Samurai as well. Skills and Attributes are still very appealing.
-
Yes, but for the mage you have skills, attributes, an extra attribute, spells, binding, quickening, anchoring, initiations, foci...
A speedboat and a destroyer both like having plenty of fuel, but one uses a helluvalot more than the other.
-
That's another thing I think is somewhat flawed in Shadowrun. Awakened characters generally don't grow outside of their specialty.
-
Because they don't have the karma for it, yes. Meanwhile, Sammys can do new things, but are constantly broke.
-
Precisely. Although Street Samurai do get to enjoy Karma and money to a nice extent. I wish you could actually see a Mage start the game with 0 in Demolitions and end with 5, but the way the game is set up, you will probably never see that happen. That's a reason I tend to not play Awakened characters as much as mundane. But they are still cool, of course, I just prefer the mundane progression more often than not.
-
Precisely. Although Street Samurai do get to enjoy Karma and money to a nice extent. I wish you could actually see a Mage start the game with 0 in Demolitions and end with 5, but the way the game is set up, you will probably never see that happen. That's a reason I tend to not play Awakened characters as much as mundane. But they are still cool, of course, I just prefer the mundane progression more often than not.
Also, a Demolitions skill of 1 has ended more campaigns than any sec guard could dream of.
-
Armors:
you have to keep in mind the fluff for some of the armors, especially the military grade stuff. "Each suit is custom tailored to the physology of the soldier"... meaning that even if it "falls off the back of a truck" it is pretty useless to anyone but the owner that is was designed to fit. And to fit the armor, you need more then a simple set of hand tools... you need a full on facility to do the work, and a full on medical facility to do the measurements (No, a tape measure is not going to do the trick)
The next thing to keep in mind is that heavy armor (and weapons) is illegal and you CAN NOT get a permit for it... so if you get caught, you're screwed..... A lot of players seem to forget that there are WAAY more police and drones then they have bullets.... and HTR teams pack some pretty serious firepower... So while it may sound cool to have heavy armor, the associated problems of it make deploying it anywhere there is a police presence almost certain suicide for the team.
Money:
This is what happens when the payouts are too big :D... the players go on a field trip to the local Krime Mall, and buy the place out... Payouts for a run should be high enough to cover costs, put a little in their pocket, and a little towards their next toy (be it cyber, bio, armor, lifestyle,weapons, etc) IF after every run, your players are droping $5000+ on new gear, you got a problem.
Mages:
The problem with Mages is that they are beholden to Karma.... Sure they can buy new spell formulae, or a focus, or a gun with cash... they still need karma to improve.... or learn that spell, or bond that foci. If you have too much money floating around and average karma payouts, the mage feels like he is being outstripped by the Neuyen characters in terms of power.. so they focus only on improving their spellcasting ability... (or summoning, or whatever)
this holds true usually for the first 400+ karma of a game... and usually by this time, increasing their magic through initiation also starts getting next to impossible and the player starts to branch out a bit and learn new skills...... but with magic, a lot of skills are actually redundant.
stealth skill? Why when the mage can cast invisibility?
Ettequtte skills? Why when the mage can cast influence?
Demo skills? Why when the mage can cast wreck, or fireball?
Gun skills? Why when the mage has a host of combat spells?
Basket weaving skills? Why when the Mage can just BUY a basket?
Medtech Skills? Why when the mage has a host of health spells?
the Awakened generally don't need as many skills as their mundane counter points.... it's just a "waste" for them when they have MAGIC!
-
IF after every run, your players are droping $5000+ on new gear, you got a problem.
That should be the absolute minimum left over for putting toward upgrades of gear or implants after paying for lifestyle, replenishing consumables such as ammo and medical supplies, replacing fake SINs and licenses and putting at least another 5,000 in their pocket.
-
IF after every run, your players are droping $5000+ on new gear, you got a problem.
That should be the absolute minimum left over for putting toward upgrades of gear or implants after paying for lifestyle, replenishing consumables such as ammo and medical supplies, replacing fake SINs and licenses and putting at least another 5,000 in their pocket.
That all depends on how many runs per month you have your team do.
If you only do 1 per month, then you need high enough pay to accommodate the characters being able to maintain/improve living conditions as you desire... but if you are working on an assumption that the team takes as much work as they think they can handle, you can pay less per run and still have them paying their monthly expenses and banking extra cred.
There is no absolute minimum left over per job.
-
If they're not clearing 5k+ per job (after living expenses of course), then the gear dependent characters are never actually going to get to upgrade things like control decks, cyberdecks, and cyberware. This is particularly true for the drone riggers who are randomly going to take 25k+ losses in the course of jobs.
-
Don't forget that SR5 has the Karma for Nuyen/Nuyen for Karma system (as per the MIssions FAQ, so it's viable in regular games as well).
Karma heavy builds can sacrifice cash, and nuyen heavy builds can spend some karma for more cash...
-
Don't forget that SR5 has the Karma for Nuyen/Nuyen for Karma system (as per the MIssions FAQ, so it's viable in regular games as well).
That is an entirely optional entity for anything other than the Missions. One can not count on it being active. (In fact, the stingy miser GMs will probably not be allowing it, and will probably be howling and screaming calling it "broken".)
-
the idea for paymenats and karma are to keep things relatively close, so that all characters can gain a benefit at roughly the same time.....
IF your cash is too high, and karma is average, the Cash characters will be boosted up much, MUCH faster then the Karma Characters.
IF your Cash is too low, and karma is average, then the cash characters can not get the warez they need to improve while the Karma characters do.
-
It's worth noting that the "cash" characters have a lot more uses for Karma in 5E than they did previously. Taking a single level 6 skill to 12 would cost 114 Karma. A Samurai probably has 4 or 5 key skills, a Decker at least 3, a rigger at least 3. So unless your games are going VERY long (500-600 Karma worth) there's a lot more karmically related up for the core competencies of your mundane characters than in 1-4 .
-
It's worth noting that the "cash" characters have a lot more uses for Karma in 5E than they did previously. Taking a single level 6 skill to 12 would cost 114 Karma. A Samurai probably has 4 or 5 key skills, a Decker at least 3, a rigger at least 3. So unless your games are going VERY long (500-600 Karma worth) there's a lot more karmically related up for the core competencies of your mundane characters than in 1-4 .
good to know.
-
Quite busy so I'll make some brief notes. Iirc Suprathyroid Gland, just a basic one, costs 140k. So even at 5k profit per run you would be able to get one only after 28 runs. Iirc again, the book uses 3k to 36k per run as a guideline to follow.
-
A post has been removed from this thread due to it breaking the Terms of Service and action has been taken against the poster.
-
dang it Jack, that hammer of yours has been busy this past week!!
this is like the 3rd thread where I have seen you scripted " I am watching and waiting to hit you with me BANHAMMER!!!"
(nice to know you care though)
-
It's worth noting that the "cash" characters have a lot more uses for Karma in 5E than they did previously. Taking a single level 6 skill to 12 would cost 114 Karma. A Samurai probably has 4 or 5 key skills, a Decker at least 3, a rigger at least 3. So unless your games are going VERY long (500-600 Karma worth) there's a lot more karmically related up for the core competencies of your mundane characters than in 1-4 .
But that 114 karma expenditure to raise a skill from 6 to 12 will also require 114 weeks of training time, and any augmentation surgery performed will stop the training process. Take more than 3 weeks off during a training step and you lose the time for that step. Who's really going to be able to take 22 weeks to raise a combat skill from 10 to 11? Meanwhile, raising your Resonance from 10 to 11 takes 11 weeks, and Submerging from grade 4 to grade 5 takes no time at all.
The cash driven characters won't have as much time to get any real use out of their surplus of karma because the team won't want to sit around for five months while they train a skill. Meanwhile, the mage isn't taking anywhere near as long to spend his karma and needs more of it so he's driven to go out and keep working while the samurai is out running his sidearm with his offhand, in the dark, after spending an hour on the treadmill to get his heart rate up and his palms sweaty.
-
It's worth noting that the "cash" characters have a lot more uses for Karma in 5E than they did previously. Taking a single level 6 skill to 12 would cost 114 Karma. A Samurai probably has 4 or 5 key skills, a Decker at least 3, a rigger at least 3. So unless your games are going VERY long (500-600 Karma worth) there's a lot more karmically related up for the core competencies of your mundane characters than in 1-4 .
But that 114 karma expenditure to raise a skill from 6 to 12 will also require 114 weeks of training time, and any augmentation surgery performed will stop the training process. Take more than 3 weeks off during a training step and you lose the time for that step. Who's really going to be able to take 22 weeks to raise a combat skill from 10 to 11? Meanwhile, raising your Resonance from 10 to 11 takes 11 weeks, and Submerging from grade 4 to grade 5 takes no time at all.
The cash driven characters won't have as much time to get any real use out of their surplus of karma because the team won't want to sit around for five months while they train a skill. Meanwhile, the mage isn't taking anywhere near as long to spend his karma and needs more of it so he's driven to go out and keep working while the samurai is out running his sidearm with his offhand, in the dark, after spending an hour on the treadmill to get his heart rate up and his palms sweaty.
Are you actually playing by those rules? Frankly, they sound very boring and I won't be using them.
-
For the training rules, I kinda figure anyone with a skill higher than 6, which is the standard professional rating, spends time with that skill regularly anyways. I also figure any run where you use that skill is at least as valuable as training, so should qualify. The section even says runs interrupt the training, not make you restart it. So there never has to be months of waiting around, the characters continue to go on runs, and in their downtime between runs, they train. For a very fast paced campaign I can see a problem, but I see a usual pacing of a run every 2-3 weeks, which puts karma earning at about the same rate you can train things anyways. At 6 karma for a run (about average), it takes 4 runs to get the karma to improve a skill from 10-11 anyways. At 2.5 weeks per run, that's 10 weeks. For an average logic character, they can improve 2 skills at once, needing 20 weeks to get enough karma...and 20 weeks to train. Also, since karma is not expended until training is complete, it can begin before having enough karma to raise something, so long as the character manages to earn enough karma before finishing, the training is successful.
-
All "training time" rules accomplish is adding more pointless bookkeeping and monotony and detracting from the game.
-
Are you actually playing by those rules? Frankly, they sound very boring and I won't be using them.
I plan on playing with a slightly modified version of those rules - basically having each player record what they are working on, and each day not spent on a run is a day spent working towards improving those traits.
I think that it helps to add a sense of pacing by giving the players a reason not to try and go on a run every day of the week - and it forces improvements in the character to be planned choices, not spontaneous decisions brought on by thoughts of "what can I get with the rest of the unspent Karma I have right now?"
While some might see the training time rules as "pointless bookkeeping", I see them as another tool which can be used to help immerse players into the setting.
-
All "training time" rules accomplish is adding more pointless bookkeeping and monotony and detracting from the game.
some people like this.... others not.
And I seem to recall a few old posts under 4e about training times as well.
-
Are you actually playing by those rules? Frankly, they sound very boring and I won't be using them.
I plan on playing with a slightly modified version of those rules - basically having each player record what they are working on, and each day not spent on a run is a day spent working towards improving those traits.
I think that it helps to add a sense of pacing by giving the players a reason not to try and go on a run every day of the week - and it forces improvements in the character to be planned choices, not spontaneous decisions brought on by thoughts of "what can I get with the rest of the unspent Karma I have right now?"
While some might see the training time rules as "pointless bookkeeping", I see them as another tool which can be used to help immerse players into the setting.
I agree that your system is good. I like to see some semblance of realism regarding training times and rate of improvement. But I also don't like to use strict rules.
-
Are you actually playing by those rules? Frankly, they sound very boring and I won't be using them.
I plan on playing with a slightly modified version of those rules - basically having each player record what they are working on, and each day not spent on a run is a day spent working towards improving those traits.
I think that it helps to add a sense of pacing by giving the players a reason not to try and go on a run every day of the week - and it forces improvements in the character to be planned choices, not spontaneous decisions brought on by thoughts of "what can I get with the rest of the unspent Karma I have right now?"
While some might see the training time rules as "pointless bookkeeping", I see them as another tool which can be used to help immerse players into the setting.
I agree that your system is good. I like to see some semblance of realism regarding training times and rate of improvement. But I also don't like to use strict rules.
then don't :D
you are always free to ignore something at your table if you think it is silly. (and there is more then a few who think the training time IS silly)...
Usually I caution against ignoring rules as it can have unintended consequences on the game.... but I am not really seeing much here other then avoiding some bookkeeping and saving time.
-
I've been balking at the training times of SR5 as well, until someone pointed out to me that having a Skill of 12 basically means you're one of the top experts in your field in the world.
Is it unreasonable to expect characters to have to train for an extended period of time to truly achieve mastery of something? It took me at least 6 months of dedicated practice (I was doing other stuff at the time, but a lot of time was spent at the range) to reach 0.5 MOA with my rifle, and part of that was learning the ins and outs of the firearm itself.
Skill levels definitely have changed in a big way from SR4 to SR5 so I don't mind the extra time it takes, and unlike All4BigGuns I think the system adds a little realism to a game of gritty, futuristic action sequences. Yes, the section could be more clear (I had to make a table to figure out what you can and cannot do), and yes, I think some of the rules are odd (Logic being the sole attribute that allows you to learn more skills at a time?), but all in all I think it's cool that it's there.
Of course, GMs who doesn't like it can ignore those rules just as easily as anything else. But it will apply in Missions...
-
It's worth noting that the "cash" characters have a lot more uses for Karma in 5E than they did previously. Taking a single level 6 skill to 12 would cost 114 Karma. A Samurai probably has 4 or 5 key skills, a Decker at least 3, a rigger at least 3. So unless your games are going VERY long (500-600 Karma worth) there's a lot more karmically related up for the core competencies of your mundane characters than in 1-4 .
But that 114 karma expenditure to raise a skill from 6 to 12 will also require 114 weeks of training time, and any augmentation surgery performed will stop the training process. Take more than 3 weeks off during a training step and you lose the time for that step. Who's really going to be able to take 22 weeks to raise a combat skill from 10 to 11? Meanwhile, raising your Resonance from 10 to 11 takes 11 weeks, and Submerging from grade 4 to grade 5 takes no time at all.
The cash driven characters won't have as much time to get any real use out of their surplus of karma because the team won't want to sit around for five months while they train a skill. Meanwhile, the mage isn't taking anywhere near as long to spend his karma and needs more of it so he's driven to go out and keep working while the samurai is out running his sidearm with his offhand, in the dark, after spending an hour on the treadmill to get his heart rate up and his palms sweaty.
The "karma" classes have to deal with training times too. Notably initiation times can be pretty horrible.
-
The first two Initiations can be done in a single month each if you have Arcana + Intuition = 8.
-
The rules seem to imply the possibility to increase more than 1 rating point in 1 go, if you follow that one then instead of 99 weeks it'd be 18+24 weeks, and that's excluding reduction from Instruction sources.
-
It's kind of a pity there was no attempt to make a GOD score equivalent for the meat-world; a "Street Overwatch Division" if you will.
Wearing/carrying Restricted or Forbidden gear would accrue points, whether you have a permit or not. Minor "suspicious behaviors" like stealth and shadowing rolls, to non-violent spellcasting, to matrix activity, as well as gunshots, or explosions (including magical ones) will likewise increase one's score, but respectively more significantly. This is contingent upon how observed the character is; if there's no one there to make a concerned comm-call, the rate would be reduced to what's picked up and flagged by traffic/security cameras, or watcher spirits and patrols.
This doesn't quite make it safe to play "Urrrban Renool" in the Barrens with your trusty Krime Kannon, though... it just determines who responds. Even the block after block of unstacked bricks is someone's turf, whether a sprawlgang or some scavenging paracritter.
At some threshhold, you'll start getting a KE drone watching from a distance, or a car's worth of gangers doing a slow cruise past trying to determine who's stuff they can have for free, and how much work is involved in getting everyone else's stuff. Of course, they'll start accruing SOD ;) score as well, attracting unwanted attention of their own.
Thus a group of PC's testing the theory of slitting a thousand throats in a night may leave a trail of gang violence and KE crackdowns in their wake that escalates to a thing of dark legend that contacts may not want to be even remotely associated with. Or maybe they would, depending on who wins and who loses. [Cutting PC's off from their contacts will eventually stifle the game. Don't go nuclear unless they do.]
-
I imagine there is some "law" enforcement in the barrens. They just don't wear a uniform and a badge :P
Street gangs would patrol their turf, looking for people causing trouble. (Hard to shake down people if they are getting robbed all the time).
Neighbourhood watch groups looking out for trouble. and what not.
When you are effectively cut off from the services of the city, you tend to provide these things for your selves.
If you want some real world examples, look at Jamaica and their slums, or the barrios of Rio.
In one campaign, the players skipped town and tried to set up shop in CalFree... but choose a immigrant barrens neighbourhood. Within 24 hours of moving in they where met by an very polite East Indian fellow that let them know that "they" would not tolerate violence in the community, but if the Runners where willing to play nice and respect the traditions of the community, they would be welcomed. If they choose not to respect the community... bad things happen all the time. The Players got the message and didn't make waves... and where even able to score a few (low) paying jobs with a few benefits.
-
It's kind of a pity there was no attempt to make a GOD score equivalent for the meat-world; a "Street Overwatch Division" if you will.
Wearing/carrying Restricted or Forbidden gear would accrue points, whether you have a permit or not. Minor "suspicious behaviors" like stealth and shadowing rolls, to non-violent spellcasting, to matrix activity, as well as gunshots, or explosions (including magical ones) will likewise increase one's score, but respectively more significantly. This is contingent upon how observed the character is; if there's no one there to make a concerned comm-call, the rate would be reduced to what's picked up and flagged by traffic/security cameras, or watcher spirits and patrols.
No it isn't a pity. It would be complete crap if they had have done such a thing because that is basically forcing a play style onto everyone.
-
True, something like that would be ruinous to any gameplay that even remotely smells of Pink Mohawk. And the bookkeeping would be horrendous.
-
It's kind of a pity there was no attempt to make a GOD score equivalent for the meat-world; a "Street Overwatch Division" if you will.
Wearing/carrying Restricted or Forbidden gear would accrue points, whether you have a permit or not. Minor "suspicious behaviors" like stealth and shadowing rolls, to non-violent spellcasting, to matrix activity, as well as gunshots, or explosions (including magical ones) will likewise increase one's score, but respectively more significantly. This is contingent upon how observed the character is; if there's no one there to make a concerned comm-call, the rate would be reduced to what's picked up and flagged by traffic/security cameras, or watcher spirits and patrols.
This doesn't quite make it safe to play "Urrrban Renool" in the Barrens with your trusty Krime Kannon, though... it just determines who responds. Even the block after block of unstacked bricks is someone's turf, whether a sprawlgang or some scavenging paracritter.
At some threshhold, you'll start getting a KE drone watching from a distance, or a car's worth of gangers doing a slow cruise past trying to determine who's stuff they can have for free, and how much work is involved in getting everyone else's stuff. Of course, they'll start accruing SOD ;) score as well, attracting unwanted attention of their own.
Thus a group of PC's testing the theory of slitting a thousand throats in a night may leave a trail of gang violence and KE crackdowns in their wake that escalates to a thing of dark legend that contacts may not want to be even remotely associated with. Or maybe they would, depending on who wins and who loses. [Cutting PC's off from their contacts will eventually stifle the game. Don't go nuclear unless they do.]
I think this idea is very interesting in some respects.
Thinking about all the different groups/powers and areas of control: wouldn't it make it a nightmare for the GM to keep separate lists/ratings in each area? I can't see lumping it all into one rating because, unlike the matrix, one can opt to stay completely out of Evo's territory (for example) and corps don't share info. Which is one of the things that makes Shadowrunning possible, correct?
Also, isn't there a Public Awareness (may have the name incorrect) stat that kind of does this already?
-
public awareness was how much your antics in the shadows reached the ears of the "common man"...
Like:
Ted Bundy
Seal Team 6
Billy the kidd
it is NOT the thing you want to grow, but as you gain karma, your gain a rep, and that rep eventually shines out of the shadows making you and your exploits (in)famous.