Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: theKernel on <11-13-10/1610:14>
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My GM doesn't like hackers or the matrix so he kinda skrewed me over so that I'm probably going to die.
Now there wouldn't be any issues if I could just make another and he'd have to deal.
One problem, he has a rule that say we have to play the oposite of our characters when we die.
So how can I talk him out of this and show him the relative simplicity of the 'trix?
I don't want my technomancer "In'Da'Script" to die :'(
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Ask him what it is he doesn't like about Matrix rules, and why he let you play one in the first place. Engage him in conversation, not confrontation, and try to resolve the issue. I know that I, for instance, often downplay Matrix activity in my own games (traditionally SR1-3, for the record) and simply got around it by running an NPC that handled most Matrixy stuff, letting my players focus elsewhere. Everyone, however, was told that going into the game, so no one made a dedicated pencil-neck squint Radio Shack refugee type who was only good in the 'Trix.
Everyone was happy, because everyone knew the score going into it. For him to let you make the character and then put his foot down, it makes it sound like maybe there was some misunderstanding about how the rules worked, some confusion about something that ended up working differently than he thought it would, or some incident that made him feel "trapped" or "tricked" or something. I'd discuss it with him and see if that's the case, to try and handle it.
That aside? If he does decide to downplay Matrix interactions, ask him if your current character can just take on "NPC" status, and still be the Shadowrun team's go-to guy for Matrix work -- but handle it off-site, be the voice in your ear giving the team tech support, and that sort of thing. He'd still be taken off-stage, and the Matrix wouldn't play as direct a role in the campaign, but without you having to see a player character killed for an OOC disagreement or misunderstanding.
Then, I'd speak with him very particularly about what he's looking for in player characters before spending much time and emotion getting heart-set on anything, with your next guy.
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Ok, so maybe like In'Da'Script goes off into the matrix or whatever as our tech guy and then I make a tech leaning guy?
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Depends what you mean by tech guy. If you mean technomancer, then it sounds like you'll be out of luck, because your GM doesn't want in-play Matrix activity.
If you mean tech as in technical, like a guy who makes & modifies gear a la the Tech-Wiz from SR3, that could work. Does it fit though?
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Ok, so maybe like In'Da'Script goes off into the matrix or whatever as our tech guy and then I make a tech leaning guy?
If your GM doesn't want tech guys, why is your immediate knee-jerk reaction to then make another tech guy?
Ask him what he's after. Ask him what he'll allow in the game. Spend your creative energy, right now, thinking of a cool way for your Technomancer to gracefully log off (so to speak) and drift into being an NPC that sometimes gets hired to help the group out...don't think of another character, just yet. Worry about how to propose all this to your GM, and wait to see what he's looking for.
Yes, I'm well aware it's kind of a backwards way to do things -- not making what you want to make -- but it's better than constantly cycling through characters as the GM arbitrarily plays "wack a mole" with them. Ask him what he wants in the group, and THEN start thinking about a new character once you know you're making something you can keep.
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Convince your GM to play Earthdawn instead. And play a Nethermancer to use Spirits and Bone Circles to establish a matrix prototype. :P
And seriously, just try talking with your GM. In 4ed any group is dead as a doornail without a matrix-savvy runner. Maybe your GM think those rules are too complicated, and they'll invoke the Cyberspace Effect*. Talk it through, decide to simplify some rules, work things out. In the end, you can make a combat technomancer, or a infil technomancer. Or a technomancer face. ;P
* Reality vs cyberspace. A part of the group is always bored, because they're left out of the game. Also common for other parts of the game world, like Astral. It's especially bad in nWoD. :P
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Exatilly!He thinks its too hard
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I don't really know of anyway to convince him that it's not hard other than to sit down with him and talk to him about it and go over the rules with him. Getting him familiar with the rules is really the only way when it comes right down to it. then if he is familiar with the rules, can use them and is fluent with the matrix - if he still doesn't like it - then well, I dunno...
I find his rule of making opposite characters when you die to be very odd, IMO.
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...Now there wouldn't be any issues if I could just make another and he'd have to deal....
You know, this is something that i do not really understand. So some guys meet to have fun, and the one who has to organize the fun has a problem with something, one of the others would like to do. The normal thing imho would be to let the one who has agreed to do the hardest part of the work decide, what he is willing to do. This "i do what he does not want just because i want it and he has to get around with it" is absolutely the wrong way. How about you take the part of the GM next time and make a run, where you can show the others, how much fun it can be to hack into the matrix?
I had some sessions back in SR2-times, where we had no fuill-time-deckers, just because our GM did not want to invest additional time in making a part for just one player, where the others would just hang around and listen without anything to do, when he already made enough stuff where everyone had his part.
Greetings
Unisus
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I find his rule of making opposite characters when you die to be very odd, IMO.
I've seen this rule used before. . . either when a GM is trying to "force" people to roleplay (because he sees the group as a bunch of munchkins) or to get people to come out of their comfort zone. Not usually recommended, better is to change up GM style and trust that the players will follow. Or, realize you have a group that doesn't want to play the way you want to and work with them towards a compromise.
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...Now there wouldn't be any issues if I could just make another and he'd have to deal....
You know, this is something that i do not really understand. So some guys meet to have fun, and the one who has to organize the fun has a problem with something, one of the others would like to do. The normal thing imho would be to let the one who has agreed to do the hardest part of the work decide, what he is willing to do. This "i do what he does not want just because i want it and he has to get around with it" is absolutely the wrong way. How about you take the part of the GM next time and make a run, where you can show the others, how much fun it can be to hack into the matrix?
I had some sessions back in SR2-times, where we had no fuill-time-deckers, just because our GM did not want to invest additional time in making a part for just one player, where the others would just hang around and listen without anything to do, when he already made enough stuff where everyone had his part.
Greetings
Unisus
To a certain extent I agree, but the rules for running the matrix are so integrated now (not like back in 2nd ed) that there really is no reason not to know them and use them all the time.
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Yeah... Um, you all did read the part about how Hacking is wireless now? And how most corporations have taken measures so you can't get into their systems without be physically on location and accessing their network from the PAN there? That means that the hacker's gotta go ON the run now (most of the time anyway, full-immersion hackers are still a rare breed). Which means he hacks WHILE combat is going on and him, his allies, the IC and the corp toughs are all on the same initiative track. If the hacker goes VR to fight the IC, it's no different than the sammy kicking in his wired reflexes or the mage going astral.
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Yeah... Um, you all did read the part about how Hacking is wireless now? And how most corporations have taken measures so you can't get into their systems without be physically on location and accessing their network from the PAN there? That means that the hacker's gotta go ON the run now (most of the time anyway, full-immersion hackers are still a rare breed). Which means he hacks WHILE combat is going on and him, his allies, the IC and the corp toughs are all on the same initiative track. If the hacker goes VR to fight the IC, it's no different than the sammy kicking in his wired reflexes or the mage going astral.
I think that's what voyd was getting at here:
To a certain extent I agree, but the rules for running the matrix are so integrated now (not like back in 2nd ed) that there really is no reason not to know them and use them all the time.
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Yeah, just adding my two cents to his comments. ;D
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Yup, though until we got a little more used to Shadowrun as a whole (and my wife got comfortable-ish with the technomancer rules), matrix related legwork tended to drag the game to a crawl. My usual method is to put someone on the course of die-rolling, then shift to other players round-robbin style 'till everyone's busy. Unfortunately, the rest of the group have contacts that tend towards hyper-specialization (or the PC is Hung Out to Dry) and the players themselves are still figuring out how they fit into the system, so "working the streets" isn't on their RADAR.
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Yea I think it is a mix of not understanding the rules and not wanting the game to crawl. Which it does, but hell, I'm learning to play as well. I love computers in real life and I want to play a tech guy in the game. I've devoted so much time into learning the game and the matrix rules that I just can't stand by and let that slip away. There is no reason I should give into his ignorence you know? I like the guy but part of his job is to know the rules. I'm going to be running a game soon and I know for a FACT he'd hate it if I did this to him (which I don't plan on) I'm one of the only "role-players" in our group and I'm punished for it. But you know what? My game will be tech leaning. :Dhahahaha
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Have you talked to your GM yet? Really, dude. He can help you figure out how to handle this, we can't.
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My GM doesn't like hackers or the matrix so he kinda skrewed me over so that I'm probably going to die.
Now there wouldn't be any issues if I could just make another and he'd have to deal.
One problem, he has a rule that say we have to play the oposite of our characters when we die.
So how can I talk him out of this and show him the relative simplicity of the 'trix?
I don't want my technomancer "In'Da'Script" to die :'(
I'd play that rule for everything it's worth. SO I make a Female Technomancer if I had a male. Or I'd choose an oposite Thechnomagic school for lack of a better term. I have a problem with those kind of GM imposed rules. If my street Sam dies I'm not making a Doc. I'm making another fighting type, cause that's MY style of play.
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I dunno, my doc's pretty cool.
I really only play fighters (usually more dex than strength), rogues, and magic users (and even then, only evocation and necromancy) in D&D. In shadowrun, I can only really see myself playing... essentially rogues of various flavors until we all get hacking settled out. Right now I have a speedy tweaker B&E guy and a street doc who's... pretty much an assassin. (WHOOO REPO!) It's my niche. It's what I like to play. I wouldn't really enjoy playing anything else ('cept maybe a sniper) so I'd HATE a GM that would make me tank. I do not WANT to tank. I would not know how to THINK like a tank. Do NOT make the party suffer by making me tank!
It's kinda the reverse in Battletech. Give me assault mechs or I will give you lots of stupid decisions that end up getting all these lights and mediums killed. I have purposely run a locust off a cliff because I hated the damn thing so much and saw no point in running it. I was all jacked up on flu meds at the time, but still. I play more like a slightly mobile turret in BT than like something that actually has a move rate.
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Oh I have nothing against the healers. Every group needs one, I'm just the Brother Guillian type Healer. Bro G was a Half OGRE fighter Cleric, who loved converting Orc tribes. By asking for them to convert then shaking them one after the other (breaking necks) till they "Saw the light"
Very agressive when it came to healing.
So on topic. I just couldn't agree to such a home ruling as oposite character type upon death.
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Yea, I talked to him.
He said hes gunna suck it up and learn the matrix buuuut he isn't backing down on the roleplaying rule
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I really wonder, what has to happen to someone so he enforces a rule like that...
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If you really understand the matrix rules, you should be able to explain the whole matrix system to someone in about an hour. At least as much as it would take to run it with very few rules discussions/clarifications.
Technomancer rules are even easier since they do away with response and program load issues, and what they add is basically a dub of the magic rules, which your GM (naturally) must already have a decent grasp of.
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I really wonder, what has to happen to someone so he enforces a rule like that...
Itīs not that big a deal - there are some people out there who think it awfully boring to do the same times and times again - especially GMs who make the experience, that "Dangalf the Mage", "Lermin the Mage", "Magus the Mage" etc. are just one character with a whole bunch of different names (a new one after each death) played by the one player who really loves to play mages. The same may happen for each and every race and class, while race is more likely to differ a bit.
Itīs the players who just change the names of their characters to create a new one, who get those rules into the gaming round.
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Well, I hold it that people want to play whats most fun to them. If that is a mage, IMHO its not the GMs place to tell them to back off from the character class they have the most fun with (of course only if its not a munchkin, but thats another topic). But I guess thats up to the players, if they want to put up with it...
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Yea, it definitely is a case-by-case kind of rule. I mean, if the player just *likes* being a mage, I won't have a problem with it. If he's always playing a mage because the rules for that build are broken compared to others, then I'd put my foot down.
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Encouraging a dude to play something other than a hacker because he always plays hackers is WORLDS AWAY from telling a dude that he can't play a hacker because you can't be arsed to read and digest the Matrix rules...