Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: baronspam on <12-25-13/1745:51>
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So, your implanted comlink or cyberdeck gets bricked. Do you need a bone saw and some Bactine to work on it? Is there an access port? I can't find anything specifically in SR5 core rules. Has this come up in a game for anyone?
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General concensus seems to be "we assume there's an easy access panel for you to use so let's just handwave it".
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Mungo's Implanted Commlink Repair consists of a heavy mallet. ;D
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Was just listening to Critical Glitch podcast, and they mentioned bricking. Their version was that it was basically a software issues. A bricked cyberdeck was not literally fried, but basically had its operating system corrupted. The repair is not getting out a soldering gun an reattaching wires, but was more of an issue of flash the bios, re-install the OS, reconfigure the command options, etc. For that you wouldn't need to break out the bone saw, just plug into a datajack or maybe even fix it wirelessly if they can get the bios to reset.
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Was just listening to Critical Glitch podcast, and they mentioned bricking. Their version was that it was basically a software issues. A bricked cyberdeck was not literally fried, but basically had its operating system corrupted. The repair is not getting out a soldering gun an reattaching wires, but was more of an issue of flash the bios, re-install the OS, reconfigure the command options, etc. For that you wouldn't need to break out the bone saw, just plug into a datajack or maybe even fix it wirelessly if they can get the bios to reset.
That sounds so boring. I'd go with a panel exploding with sparks flying out of people's heads. And then the decker has to go in with a soldering iron and put in some new fuses, motherboards, or whatever. But I'm a big fan of hollywood hacking and rule of cool.
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Well, the fluff mentions minor smoke and fried electronics, but the actual rules mechanics don't support that fluff - repairs are just a couple of skill checks.
If they meant it to just be software bricking the fluff probably needs to be changed. Software bricking is kinda more 'realistic' anyway, it's actually very difficult to physically damage most electronics with just hacking.
-k
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Well, the fluff mentions minor smoke and fried electronics, but the actual rules mechanics don't support that fluff - repairs are just a couple of skill checks.
If they meant it to just be software bricking the fluff probably needs to be changed. Software bricking is kinda more 'realistic' anyway, it's actually very difficult to physically damage most electronics with just hacking.
-k
A couple of skill checks for things not inside the body. There's no way that you're just doing such a thing on an implant that quick--it's going to require surgery.
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Well, the fluff mentions minor smoke and fried electronics, but the actual rules mechanics don't support that fluff - repairs are just a couple of skill checks.
If they meant it to just be software bricking the fluff probably needs to be changed. Software bricking is kinda more 'realistic' anyway, it's actually very difficult to physically damage most electronics with just hacking.
-k
A couple of skill checks for things not inside the body. There's no way that you're just doing such a thing on an implant that quick--it's going to require surgery.
So, if it took the Essence option for implanting the cyberdeck/commlink it's some combination of Medicine, Cybertechnology, and Hardware tests? If Capacity, just Cybertechnology and Hardware?
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If it was meant to be a software issue and not a hardware issue, then the test to fix bricking should be Software, not Hardware.
Personally though, I've gone with the assumption that an implanted deck or commlink is like a cortical stack from Eclipse Phase. You have a port in the back of your head, and if you need to slide the ware out to make repairs, you can do so without cracking your skull open.
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If it was meant to be a software issue and not a hardware issue, then the test to fix bricking should be Software, not Hardware.
Personally though, I've gone with the assumption that an implanted deck or commlink is like a cortical stack from Eclipse Phase. You have a port in the back of your head, and if you need to slide the ware out to make repairs, you can do so without cracking your skull open.
Well, only a datajack is limited to that kind of thing. Commlinks and Cyberdecks have the option for taking up capacity in cyber-limbs/torso/skull in lieu of the essence cost.
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Most people overestimate how much damage bricking do.
A device will have 100% functionality as long as it is got even a single matrix condition box.
To repair a single matrix condition box you only need a single hit on a Hardware + Logic [Mental] test.
Extra hits can be used to cut the repair time in half.
4 hits on the test let you restore full functionality of a bricked internal control rig in less than 8 minutes.
A couple of skill checks for things not inside the body. There's no way that you're just doing such a thing on an implant that quick--it's going to require surgery.
Not according to Aaron.
(and what surgery take less than 8 minutes to perform)
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ahemm
BBB Page 228 Bricking:
If the Matrix Condition Monitor of a device is completely
filled, the device ceases functioning. This is
called bricking a device. Devices that are bricked never
fail non-spectacularly. Smoke, sparks, pops, bangs, sizzles,
nasty smells, and occasionally even small fires are
common features of a device in the process of becoming
a brick.
It seems to mee that anything bricked is in need of Repair and that its NOT a mere Software problem !
And I think that Ingame consequences of a burnig cerebral Comlink or a Reflexbooster which is connected to your Spiral Cord and gives of electrical Sparks are quite severe
with a sizzling Dance
Medicineman
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Yeah, with the fact that it's a hardware check and the description of bricking including things short-circuiting and the like, saying how they 'never fail non-spectacularly' it's pretty clearly some physical damage. However, I also think it's obvious that implanted decks and commlinks are accessable without surgery. After all, you don't require a datajack implanted alongside it, and it doesn't prevent you from direct-connecting it to stuff, so you likely have a panel of false-skull that can be lifted in order to access its plugs and what not.
It's also not unreasonable to assume you need a Hardware Kit to make the repairs.
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fluff make it look a lot more severe than crunch tell us it actually is...
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fluff make it look a lot more severe than crunch tell us it actually is...
Well said. Fluff indicates smoke and burned plastic, crunch indicates its closer to re-installing software.
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Based on what I got from the bricking fluff/intentions, bricking cyberware is always a bit "softer" than bricking a smartgun etc. If I remember right (sorry, couldn't find it in the book - so I might be remembering wrong here) I read something about bricking eg. a cyberlimb: that you couldn't actually physically damage it, but you could cheat it into thinking it's broken, thus confusing it's owner and even alerting DocWagon etc.
So maybe, according to this cyberware bricking is meant to be software-ish, lighter - maybe cyberware has better protection, or different systems somehow. Ie. this would explain why don't you need brain surgery to repair bricked cyberware?
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Once again, if it was intended to be a software problem, why do you fix Matrix Damage with a Hardware roll instead of a Software roll?
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Once again, if it was intended to be a software problem, why do you fix Matrix Damage with a Hardware roll instead of a Software roll?
Because the software is what's keeping it bricked. To use a PC analogy, you have to abort the boot-up, and fix the bios settings, then re-install the software... you're using the hardware to do it, rather than just clicking the "update drivers" button on the software's interface.
This is why Hewlett-Packard isn't depicted as a cyberware manufacturer, presumably; no one wants to undergo surgery every time they have an issue, just to have someone swap parts out until it works again.
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*Gets Bricked Headware* "I smell burnt toast." *Drops into a seizure*
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Personally I like dramatic bricking with pops and sizzles and smoke and such...when the PCs do it to my NPCs ;)
Nothing wrong with different rulings there.
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Personally I like dramatic bricking with pops and sizzles and smoke and such...when the PCs do it to my NPCs ;)
Nothing wrong with different rulings there.
So you say nothing is wrong with using different Rules for NPCs and PCs ? ? ?
Really ? :o
With a really astonished Dance
Medicineman
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Personally I like dramatic bricking with pops and sizzles and smoke and such...when the PCs do it to my NPCs ;)
Nothing wrong with different rulings there.
So you say nothing is wrong with using different Rules for NPCs and PCs ? ? ?
Really ? :o
With a really astonished Dance
Medicineman
I'm personally somewhat astonished that you are astonished!
NPCs and PCs exist in the game for different reasons. It makes complete sense they'd utilize rules differently.
Psssst - don't tell anyone the dark secret, but I also don't completely stat out all NPCs, either...!
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:)
( I'm surprised at your being surprised to my surprise ;) )
and I don't stat out my NPCs either
but the Rules are the same for PCs and NPCs alike
I don't really know how to say it in english but I never considered using different Rules for my NPCs and I don't think I ever met a GM who did it.... and I'm playing RPG for 30 Years now and I'm in german Conventions quite often (6 -8 x a Year for at leats 15 Years)
Except for Shortcuts (like f.E. using 1 Autohit per 4 Dice in the pool to make skirmishes easier & faster) NPCs and PCS have to succumb to the same physical Laws of the Game World and are using the same Rules
with an even more astonished Dance
Medicineman
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What should be considered here is that when bricking cyberware, sparks and fire could lead to near-death injury. Which is neither written or intended for bricking. I think this is why bricking 'ware is a little different.
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What should be considered here is that while fluff make us think it look like bricking deal massive damage to the device
...while actual crunch (rules and game mechanics) let us know that with a simple toolkit and a few hits on a hardware test you can restore full functionality in less than 15 minutes
= bricking deal very little actual damage to the device.
Functionality of the device is very easy (you need 1 single hit on a non-opposed test) to restore.
Functionality of cyberware is equally easy to restore.
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I see what you mean, the book does contradict itself on this ("never fails non spectacularly" vs. "easily repaired by a friend with Hardware skill"). Sorry if my reply came off condescending or something!
Maybe houserule "Overflow Matrix Damage" - where you can really ruin something if you eg. fill it's = Device Rating overflow matrix condition boxes. The logic behind it would be that players could probably do more matrix damage to the goon's deck, gun etc than the other way around. So with this there would be two kinds of bricking 'normal' and 'overflow' - software and hardware.
Ofc I don't expect "houserule it!" to be a surprising solution to anyone, it's just that there isn't much else we can do with this issue until someone officially clarifies it.
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:)
( I'm surprised at your being surprised to my surprise ;) )
and I don't stat out my NPCs either
but the Rules are the same for PCs and NPCs alike
I don't really know how to say it in english but I never considered using different Rules for my NPCs and I don't think I ever met a GM who did it.... and I'm playing RPG for 30 Years now and I'm in german Conventions quite often (6 -8 x a Year for at leats 15 Years)
Except for Shortcuts (like f.E. using 1 Autohit per 4 Dice in the pool to make skirmishes easier & faster) NPCs and PCS have to succumb to the same physical Laws of the Game World and are using the same Rules
with an even more astonished Dance
Medicineman
Ah, but the game rules need not be the laws of physics! If you really want a shock, check out something like Dungeon World sometime ;)
I understand most Shadowrun players are primarily unused to more narrative mechanics, but my players and I myself enjoy those quite a bit, so I make use of them.
In this case, PCs are free to react however they want to their stuff getting bricked. The device in question certainly no longer works until repaired (and they are free to describe/explain themselves how this is done), but they can be shocked or horrified or just grimly nod or even start laughing and claim the NPC fell or a trap.
NPCs reacts differently depending on the character. This, I draw from the example in book. So the thug threatening the techno (or decker with hidden deck) who has his gun suddenly explode might spend their turn in shock or horror at it, rather then simply go through their actions as if nothing happened. The enemy corpsec is a cool cool cucumber even if you mess up his gun because honestly, that's not exactly the only one he's carrying...but if his whole arm starts to get jittery and sparky, even if it doesn't do actual physical damage, he's going to react to it. A decker who's being obvious about it might find themselves the new center of attention! And pity the poor fellow who gets his eye's bricked - I imagine that's going to hurt, which might even end up translating into stun damage.
Now certainly there's no rule that states "an NPC will be suprised and lose their turn etc etc," but I have no problem making that up as I go. I don't really apply this to the PCs, in part because they don't tend to get hacked (or if they do, the spider is going to do far better then just brick one or two things - bricking is an "OH CRAP!" combat activity, as I see it), and in part because NPCs serve a different purpose, and I'm absolutely comfortable with rules working differently for them. This is what I mean by "narrative rule" "What do you do" matters more then "what are the explicit mechanical rules that you use." I mean, I use house rules, but one of them is "some stuff you do might have a greater effect" left carte blanche. Likewise, at one point I flat out told an elf Face "this guy sincerely hates elves. Any attempt at social skills will fail with him." I'm not sure if the rules support that, but it made the game better, so I did it.
So! Back to the actual question at hand: bricking.
Bricking is meant to do/be three things:
1) The object is broken
2) This is done dramatically
3) It must be repaired later with hardware to work.
Number 2 is the given fluff, but by the rules has no actual mechanical effect. Unless you decide to give it one! Likewise, number 3 does not mandate you use surgery to repair the item in question, and there is as far as I have seen no rule that requires surgery to fix 'ware, so by the rules you just use hardware. Personally, I'd say nudge the player and ask them how it works. Get them to be creative! There's already some cool answers in this thread (I'm fond of the fake skull bit that flips out, picturing it almost like a disk drive). If it helps, traditionally, implanted commlinks in 4e and implanted decks pre-4e required part of it be exposed outside of the skin.