Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: Metasyntactic on <01-07-14/0359:23>
-
Hello All,
I'm in contact with a few Dice companies about having some Shadowrun dice made (as that lovely tin set seems to be extinct).
However, they tell me firstly, that I cant get the Shadowrun Logo on the dice with the CopyRight permission (of course) and secondly, that they’ve been given permission before – as the copyright owner don’t mind giving permission for small groups of avid fans! Result!
However, they gave me the link www.CatalystGameLabs.com/Shadowrun, but I cant find any contact details on that page…
Does anyone here;
A) Know the email address of who I have to contact to ask – and what I need to say? Should I explain that id like their permission to make 6x 20 DicePool sets of Shadowrun Dice for my group?
B) Has anyone asked before and been successful/turned down?
C) I don’t know how “bulk” orders work, but if anyone else wanted any, then I'm sure it’ll be cheaper to add on an extra set to my order than it would be to “go it alone”.
Lastly, the idea I have for the design is this <below> Please let me know if you’ve had any better ideas – or seen any cooler ideas.
ShadowRun Logo (with a little 5 or 6 in the corner) for 2 sides. Colour will be decided when dice colour is selected (possible white on black dice)
Then a Red Skull design for glitches. We’ve argued amongst a big red cross – or some other “Failure” related icons, but people like the skull the most (in our group).
Can anyone help with Question A, B, C or the Design thoughts?
-
I would suggest Randall Bills would be your best bet: randall@catalystgamelabs.com
-
I would suggest Randall Bills would be your best bet: randall@catalystgamelabs.com
Splendid. Email sent!
-
Cool...be sure to let us know the outcome. I'd likely be in for some dice if you get the "go ahead".
An aside...have you given any thought to alternative designs?
-
when I first heard about SR5 being released, I noticed those nice tins from Pegasus on Amazon, and I figured I would hold off a bit, and then a few weeks later, those tins had all been extracted by more prepared Shadowrunners, so I have been kicking myself since.
If you get this going, I might be interested as well, depending on pricing, and logistics, and stuff.
-
I've had quotes and conversations with nearly 7 companies now!
(Still not had anything back from Catalyst though regarding confirmation to use their logo for a few dice).
But the best dice/price we have so far is;
16mm
Opaque/Marble/Oblivion/Pearlescent (in various colours – can post an image if I can work out how to upload)
3 custom sides/3 blank sides
3 custom sides can be any combination of colours.
The ‘Popular’ ones in our group sound like
Black Pearl Dice
2x Gold Shadowrun Icons (with a little 5 or 6 in the corner)
1x Red Skull Icon
These work out to be £1.18 each (after VAT) but exclude delivery (as I don’t know the number/weight of the total order yet).
But it makes a set of 25 £29.50 (so we’ve called it £30)
Which isn’t too bad as the German ones were $15 for 12 dice. So $30 becomes £30… But these are ‘Propa’ custom haha!
This company has also agreed to mock one up to show the finish etc, so looking forward to that!
You can go to 18mm dice for +40p each – or to 22mm dice for (I think) +70p a dice.
Note: Just noticed the "Attachment" button. Cant remember which ones are which, but I think its;
Top Left Oblivion
Top Right Pearl
Bottom Left Opaque
Bottom Right Marble
-
I really like the green oblivion die. Maybe just because I'm nostalgic about my dice and they remind me of the official ones I had for White Wolf games. Or perhaps it's just because I really like green. Either way, I really like the pattern on there.
-
Interesting. :D
What are the MOQ where you start getting discounts per die?
-
Frankly, I'd go with the opaque or pearl, the others can be a bit hard to read in certain colors. As a GM, I want to be able to see certain things clearly from across a table... :)
I'd love green or royal blue pearl but I'm not sure I could go in on this round, the price point might get a bit high with overseas shipping.
-
What are the MOQ where you start getting discounts per die?
In fairness, its not as much as I thought. These prices include VAT, but theres been no negotiation yet, as these are the book prices they sent.
So once I have my complete order of (for example) 200 dice @ £1.14 each = £228 plus £12 delivery (ish) = £240, then ill start at “Doing the lot for £200” and see where I get (sort of thing).
But they only drop 4p per banding, so on a 25x DP, we’re only looking at a £1 off per set… Which doesn’t incentivise me going and getting as many orders as possible.
I think its merely because I've reached the minimum and not many people would be able to get a cheap run of 25 made
16mm - Lasered Dice - 3 faces
25-51 £1.25
51-99 £1.22
100-199 £1.18
200-499 £1.14
500+ £1.11
Frankly, I'd go with the opaque or pearl, the others can be a bit hard to read in certain colors
That’s what I thought looking at the pictures.
The lasered logos aren’t going to be massive, so I wouldn’t want them distracted by the marbling effect.
-
16mm - Lasered Dice - 3 faces
25-51 £1.25
51-99 £1.22
100-199 £1.18
200-499 £1.14
500+ £1.11
For anyone looking cheaper, the "Printed" option is much cheaper - and im told they are quite hard wearing. But *will* perish over use over time.
*BUT* You can have full colour designs.
16mm - PRINTED Dice - 3 faces
25-51 59p
51-99 56p
100-199 52p
200-499 48p
500+ 45p
Examples of each attached
-
Examples of each attached
Here's the Lasered examples they sent through.
-
I just, personally, think the lasered/engraved ones look more ‘Pro’ so happy to pay the premium. Yes, the printed dice are less than half the price, but the worry of them chipping off… Hmm… I don’t think id ‘enjoy’ rolling them.
She did say they were meant to be for more novelty etc, but can be played.
Engraved are timeless – and will look smart for as long as I own them.
-
Man, now I know what I want for my birthday and that was a month ago. ;_;
-
Man, now I know what I want for my birthday and that was a month ago. ;_;
Just had the confirmation that the ‘Demo Die’ is going to be started Monday (I have no idea how long they take).
Eager to post here and get some opinions.
PS Anyone have any other contact details for Catalyst about copyright? I've not even got a reply.
Anyone know their Twitter? Or if they’ve active on it?
I think if I actually see the final product, fall in love, then get absolutely bagel from the copyright owners in terms of response – I'm going to fall out of love with them game haha
Hashtag, bitter memories :D
-
The big guys tend to be busy with the different product lines, they don't just manage Shadowrun, so it may take some time. There's a twitter account, not sure who of CGL runs it.
-
I can poke around, see if the message was eaten by a spambot.
-
I can poke around, see if the message was eaten by a spambot.
Sent to randall@catalystgamelabs.com 07/01 11:56am and contact@catalystgamelabs.com at 07/01 09:12
-
PS Anyone have any other contact details for Catalyst about copyright? I've not even got a reply.
Possible that they won't, IIRC the new Beginner's box (due soonish) has a "handful of d6's" as an element.
They may not want to cut their market if they plan on selling them separately out of box as well.
-
You can get dice from them at the cons with the logo on the 6 at least the large cons where CGL has an official presence, I know a lot of folks who can't make it often use in between to pick them up for them. I wish they would add them to battlecorp, so they could be purchased away from just at the cons
-
They may not want to cut their market if they plan on selling them separately out of box as well.
Id hope they'd recognise the difference between me wanting to get sign off (could even ben written to only include a maximum of 'X' dice) for my group. Compared to confusing me with someone who wants to take eBay by storm haha!
I think I even wrote my plans of "Theres 6 of us, who all want a custom dice pool of 25 dice each".
You can get dice from them at the cons
All id have to do is move to America :D
I think I mentioned in a post somewhere that I dont know of any RPG style conventions in the UK that aren't terribly niche or miles away.
Im even told our official UK ComiCon is something of an embarrassment compared to the San Diego 'Proper' one.
-
Metasyntactic Hell, you'd have to move to the RIGHT part of America. I live in Texas, and there are no conventions anywhere near me (within a 5 hour drive, say) attended by anyone from CGL or even their demo team as far as I'm aware.
-
EDIT: I didn't see your caveat about CGL, so you very well may be right :D My mistake
Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Bryan/College Station all have cons. Maybe not big ones, but something.
Of course, there are places in Texas you could live that are 5 hours away from all of those ;)
(Lubbock here)
ChupacabraCon
Austin, TX
January 17-19, 2014
Brony-Fest (Oh God oh God what is thisssss)
Lewisville, TX
March 28-30, 2014
Omnicon
McAllen, TX
August 1-2, 2014
Delta H Con
Houston, TX
August 15-17, 2014
Southwest A&G Expo
San Antonio, TX
January 30-February 1, 2015
These are just the ones listed off of one website in a google seach, I know there are more. For example, here are some more (and some duplicate listings): http://gameconventioncentral.com/usa/west-south-central-ar-la-ok-tx/
-
The laser-printed versions are looking pretty sweet...then again, I'm a sucker for dice. ;D
-
I wish they would add them to battlecorp, so they could be purchased away from just at the cons
Each set is a limited run, they don't go up on Battlecorps because they sell out at the conventions.
-
Ive resorted to the poor mans communication methods... Ive tweeted at them.
Will see what they say. From their account looks, they are pretty active - but that might just be to 'choice' questions.
Im not sure they'll want the world and their wife knowing about copyright permissions, otherwise it'll be custom car vinyls and tattoo's everywhere!
Will see what they say.
PS Im a little bit excited about the possibility of receiving some images of the Demo Dice today!
Its Christmas all over again.
The laser-printed versions are looking pretty sweet...then again, I'm a sucker for dice. ;D
Me too.
Materialism is an absolute bee-atch!
-
@Catalystgamelab is the twitter
Help a dummy out, when its all said and done, tell me how to get some!:)
-
The demo dice have been made and they look *AMAZING*
Just (still) waiting off on authorisation from Catalyst, even though I did get a reply tweet asking to clarify/confirm – so hopefully its in the pipeline!
They have confirmed that the skull would be red, but for speed and it being a quick demo, they just put it through the sprayer in gold completely.
-
Holy smokes, man, those look fantastic.
Hope CGL comes through for you *knocks wood*
-
Man, those look awesome. Now I kinda want a batch and have some members of the club pick them up next time they're in London, assuming you're anywhere near it. :<
-
Man, those look awesome. Now I kinda want a batch and have some members of the club pick them up next time they're in London, assuming you're anywhere near it. :<
I'm about 90 minutes from London… Heavily dependant on where abouts of course. My record for Wembley is 50 minutes :D
I am yet to hear anything from Catalyst on the follow up – but waiting apprehensively.
I'm assuming they only give rights for a certain volume sort of thing, rather than just saying “Metasyntactic can print what he wants! Wahay!”
If they do allow me to order 150 dice – that would be brilliant (batches/colours of 25).
But if any of the 5 other guys mess me around, ill be sure to throw it out here.
Hope CGL comes through for you *knocks wood*
I have everything crossed.
Not an easy task.
-
The dice are looking really nice...hope you get some feedback soon.
-
Jealousjealousjealousjealous. :< These dice would be awesome at my Missions games. :'(
-
If you do get permission to run a batch and you're doing any black dice with red emblems, I'll pay premium + shipping to the US for a set. Just saying :)
-
If you do get permission to run a batch and you're doing any black dice with red emblems, I'll pay premium + shipping to the US for a set. Just saying :)
The demo die is black pearl, I think this is a solid black choice.
Yes, I've checked about the skull actually being red.
I don’t want to get all excited and ahead of myself, but if these do come out reasonably cheap and beautiful - *AND* - I get the permission to use the logo for a run of dice then;
Yes.
No probs, I can send to the US.
But, what would be cheaper… Me to send you and Michael individual US secured/insured/tracked Airmail dice?
Or if I sent one package of 2 sets to you – and you internally mailed the second set to Michael?
I don’t know how US Mail works? Would mailing something across the country cost more than me to send it from UK to US?
Again, not falling over myself in anticipation (otherwise I'm just setting myself up for disappointment); but once I can get either A) the dice or B) a confirmed weight per set of 25, I could start working out what it would cost.
Also, everyone cool with 25x Dice Pool? Was kind of plucked from the air… But I thought it was a valid’ish number
-
If you do get permission to run a batch and you're doing any black dice with red emblems, I'll pay premium + shipping to the US for a set. Just saying :)
The demo die is black pearl, I think this is a solid black choice.
Yes, I've checked about the skull actually being red.
Unless you mean you want Glitches *AND* Hits to both be Red - i.e. No Gold.
Then yes, they have offered to do the colour of dice as bespoke sets - as well as the colour of the engraving too.
-
I'm just across the pond myself, so shipping through the US to me seems like a bad idea. :P I live a few hundred km east from you, give or take. Ahwell, we'll cross that bridge if we get there.
-
Oooh, pretty. I'm interested in a set as well. I'd go for 25 or 50 myself.
-
Also US (NY) and also interested in a 25 batch. Black pearl is OK but I'd personally prefer green pearl or royal blue pearl (the lighter blue) with same color engravings. Would pay shipping to US.
If we can't get in on this, maybe a few US people can work something out if this gets the OK? Maybe set one up over here?
-
Great looking demo set. Always wanted to see SR dice that highlighted success's and glitches, what held me back from picking up set in the tin awhile back. Looked into doing a few custom sets for local group last year but the cost and minimum run they wanted caused several guys to back out.
Shame we haven't had custom sets as a regular release for SR, heck most gm's I know who run SR would spring for a reasonably priced brick of 6's.
-
Gotta agree with ya there. Would chip in any player/GM order for a dozen or 3 of those.
-
I'd be comfortable committing to 50+ for my "crew"...PA/USA.
-
Got to agree that the dice look great and I wish you luck in getting them made. Something no one has mentioned though is you may be trying to contact the wrong people for permission. Wouldn't Topps be the ones to give permission considering they own Shadowrun and Catalyst is just the liscence holder. I'm not certain what control Catalyst has, but they may not be able to give the permission.
Just throwing it out there,
William
-
Eeek,
I have no idea about that. I think as CGL are in the back of the book as the CopyRight owner – it lives with them. But as of today – still absolute zip :(
I have an idea though.
Once/If I get this order successfully sorted; I can then ask for the exact same spec to be kept on file – then mention your names (or email addresses or something). Then you guys can get in contact about a US order.
This would;
A) Stop me paying postage to get them down the road to me – only to charge you guys UK to US postage
B) If it went missing in the post – even though tracked – I would feel horrible, so if they are bought/paid for direct and go missing – they can send a new batch etc
If I get a response from CGL, ill ask them to give me extended permission, or ask for the initial request of 150 to be raised to 300.
If that starts sounds a bit too much like “Oh, he’s trying to resell on eBay”, then – again – ill give him your email address/name and say that they will be in contact shortly and these are just the same situation – just a different country. So they can give me permission for 150 – then give you US guys assign off too.
However, your country is bigger than ours – and you may get more interest, so if one of you guys want to go point – and offer to take PM details to sort amongst yourself (logistics/numbers etc), then whoever that guy/gal is – can PM an email address/details – and we can start organising this.
This all does hinge on them actually replying to my request though :(
I can see them… I can taste them… I just want to feel them!!
*non-sexual way
-
@Metasyntactic - wondering if you ever had any feedback on this?
-
Maybe it's a timing issue and they aren't talking cause they are waiting for the physical boxed-sets to come out first. Hey, then again remember it is a small company. Not to apologize for their silent treatment, (which seems pretty unprofessional to me), but they ain't Wizards of the Coast and therefore can crank out stuff whenever.
But hey; if we complain enough, they should reply (even if it's just to tell everyone to shut everyone up). ;)
-
I would looooove having a set for Missions, and even if I'd get a boxed set (I don't think I would, digital is plenty and it seems the boxes are more fit for newbies or old-timers that haven't played SR4) the dice wouldn't be enough, so I really hope we'll hear from them eventually. :) It's pricey, but I definitely could use a set of 'em, great promotion.
-
I too would love some SR dice.
If you can get more, definitely would buy a couple dozen or more.
-
Those look amazing, I would buy a bunch myself (Though I would want one of those small cubes of 36 personally) but I have a feeling that Catalyst is ignoring you and will never get back :-(
-
This never came to fruition.
Got sent round the houses on emails and tweets.
Not going to lie, bit disappointed – as my view is that game companies really should listen and look after their players.
It may sound fickle, but it did make me fall out of love with the game a little bit.
Made them seem a little ‘faceless corporation’ and not ‘for the people’
-
I'm guessing part of the problem would be rights (Catalyst doesn't own the rights itself, for example) and business of the people who actually can sorta make those calls. It's a shame, and I hope something can still be arranged one day.
-
From the back and forth mails, it would seem they did have the power, as the tweets/emails asking me just to send the clarification/number required/requested to a certain email address just got ignored.
So I feel I reached the right team, but the Tweets were probably just for public 'face'.
I know they do limited runs in beautiful tins at American Conventions, but as im in the UK, and it was a small run of dice... You'd think they'd be happy for people to spend their money on this sort of thing.
It would mean these dice are expensive (in comparison) and can pretty much only be used for Shadowrun - which keeps you 'in' the game.
At no cost to the copyright owner.
Its like owning a franchise called "Metasyntactics Rib Shack" and someone asking if they can tattoo my rib shack name on their forehead...
Free advertising and a die hard fan kept happy!
-
Maybe they got swamped for a while, and something will be possible in the future. Lord knows I'd love having a set available for Missions. ^_^ So fingers crossed.
-
Might be worthwhile investigating the terms of fair use laws; you might be able to do something like this without breaching any copyright laws, as long as you don't make money on the product. I am not a lawyer, obviously, so check with someone like the Electronic Frontier Foundation or something...
-
Might be worthwhile investigating the terms of fair use laws; you might be able to do something like this without breaching any copyright laws, as long as you don't make money on the product. I am not a lawyer, obviously, so check with someone like the Electronic Frontier Foundation or something...
Although I am also not a lawyer, I do a lot of work that touches on Fair Use and I'll save you the time and let you know that when it comes to things like company-specific logos--which are covered by trademark law, not copyright law--there's essentially zero Fair Use for non-expressive purposes.
TLDR: Incorporate the Shadowrun logo into message art and you're fine ;)
-
Let's not forget that the companies that would print these dice WOULD be profiting from it, which is why they're unwilling to do so without permission.
-
Let's not forget that the companies that would print these dice WOULD be profiting from it, which is why they're unwilling to do so without permission.
What if I used my own 3D Printer?
-
Let's not forget that the companies that would print these dice WOULD be profiting from it, which is why they're unwilling to do so without permission.
What if I used my own 3D Printer?
This is probably a question best left for a lawyer, whose answer is best kept off the forums.
Strictly speaking in the abstract, if you didn't make too many of them ("too many" being enough to affect the marketplace--so, dice for all your friends, thereby preventing them from spending money), you didn't sell them (again, impacting the marketplace), and you square yourself away from the nominative use standpoint (this is where the lawyer would be handy), you would have a reasonable case. Fair Use isn't something that's set in stone that's always totally clear. It comes down to your capacity to make your case in court, so there are lots of guidelines, but very few hard and fast rules.
-
Oooooooor
I just design my own totally unique, but totally 'Shadowrun' logo.
Whilst not incorporating any element of the Dragon design/logo that is a Registered Trademark/protected by copyright...
Perhaps 6s can say "Geek The Mage" and 5s can say something equally as obvious haha
Will have a rethink.
-
If you 3d print some dice for your own use, I can't imagine anybody noticing and/or caring.
-
Oooooooor
I just design my own totally unique, but totally 'Shadowrun' logo.
Whilst not incorporating any element of the Dragon design/logo that is a Registered Trademark/protected by copyright...
Perhaps 6s can say "Geek The Mage" and 5s can say something equally as obvious haha
Will have a rethink.
This would be interesting...lots of examples of similar kinds of projects being done on KS.
-
If you want something to represent six I have always wondered why there isn't a logo for the Sixth World.
You know, like "Baktun Six" in Mayan, for example.
-
Found this interesting kickstarter project. Not sure how costs compare.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/customgamelab/custom-game-dice-you-design
-
Nice find, thanks!
-
Great find! I'm a backer now. :)