Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: DeathStrobe on <01-22-14/0007:56>
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So there are elf nations, a ghoul nation, a troll kingdom, I think there is an ork nation (Hawaii?). But no dwarf nation?
I guess the halfers might blend too well into human society to have to worry about too much strong racism. But you'd think that some dwarf somewhere would have gone and carved up a mountain in to a city just to play up the stereotype, followed by it turning in to a dwarf version of Disneyland acting as a glorious underground tourist trap.
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Yeah, why not. Even if it's Shadowrun, Tolkien probably existed. I could see some dwarven tribe setting up in one of those mesas out west.
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There were some that controlled the Bay Area freeway tunnels.
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There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype. It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies. Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?
Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time. But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.
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Someone else already laid claim to Cheyenne Mountain.
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There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype. It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies. Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?
Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time. But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.
... Put it to you this way: If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.
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Cripes. Just spell it out next time.
:P
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For some reason, they're also the least-played metatype in any game I've played or heard about. I heard on another forum about dwarfs controlling the Duchy of Luxembourg, but lacking the Shadows of Europe book, all I can find are references to the Saar-Lorraine-Luxembourg Special Administrative Zone, one of many too-toxic-to-live-in parts of Europe.
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Luxembourg is entirely within the SOX, and the Duchy of Luxembourg became a house in "exile."
6WA says that the Grand Duchy of Westrhine-Luxembourg was founded by dwarves in the AGS. SoE says that it is still around, the westernmost member of the AGS as far as I can tell. It borders the SOX and abuts what's left of the old country. The current ruler is a duchess according to 10 JackPointers.
As for why people don't play them? I don't know. I don't like playing people shorter than me by a couple of inches, and I'm elven tall as it is. I knew one guy whose (always) human characters were all at least a foot taller than he is. Short bias.
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I love dwarves and play them most chances I get. I even have an "in joke" where all of my dwarven characters have the same family name creating a fake lineage of dwarves I've played across multiple systems for the past 20 years. A dwarven rigger in a fast, but not absurdly fast, yet incredibly tough van is an endearing character for me in Shadowrun.
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I think dwarves haven't established a "kingdom" of their own for the simple fact that it is hard to exert your authority when you need someone else to hand you crap off of a simple counter top :P
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I think dwarves haven't established a "kingdom" of their own for the simple fact that it is hard to exert your authority when you need someone else to hand you crap off of a simple counter top :P
Probably explains why there seems to be so many dwarf riggers.
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Lack of a cultural shtick like elves and orks, plus the fact they're easily the most accepted metatype probably helps here too. I mean at worst dwarves are thought to be really short workaholics. Compared to "arrogant immortal dandelion eater" and "ugly aggresive troglodyte", that's really not that bad.
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Westrhine-Luxemburg is the official area, in the Germany Sourcebook (pp 95-97). Sold some of their land to the SOX, diminishing the use of even the smallest land ever mentioned.
I guess that Dwarves- in spite of being the big thing in Throal- get nothing anymore. And their representation in Game begins and ends with Arthur Vogel. So I guess it's great that they got the least interesting part of the '57 election.
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And their representation in Game begins and ends with Arthur Vogel.
What about:
- Lyran (Shadowrunner)
- Clockwork (Shadowrunner)
- Jackie Crumb (Anti-Papist spy, London)
- Zuri Adamson (DeeCee smuggler)
- Roderick Jenkins (Director of Homeland Security, UCAS)
- Connor McDonough (Chief Economic Advisor, UCAS)
- Joseph Ellis (Speaker of the House, UCAS)
- Felicitas "Frost" Nacht (Freelance assassin)
- Lionel St. Jerome (gun runner, London)
- Sophia Metzger (Ork Underground politico)
- Mark Stregatta (vice president of Transglobal, a Horizon subsidiary)
- Anders Malmstein (CEO of Erika and co-founder of NeoNET)
- Darren Villiers (adept and younger brother of Richard Villiers)
- Kernel (shadowrunner and cyberlogician)
- Julius Strouthers (former Metroplex Governer, Seattle)
- Vincent O'Halloran (former manager of Underworld 93, Seattle)
- Lou (owner of Lou's Tattoos, Seattle)
- Hideo Arakawa (Seattle's ambassador to Japan)
- Steven Ridgemont (CEO of Warpdrive, Denver)
- Tess McCartle (Dean of Political Science, University of Denver)
- Johnathan Gant (Prince, Tir Tairngire)
- Kevin Jaeger (Prince, Tir Tairngire)
- Ren Asawa (Kumi-in, Hawai'i)
- Theresa Tamayo (leader of the Andes Cartel)
I mean sure, these characters are less in the middle of things than others, but if you're doing a campaign in Denver or Tir Tairngire you better be prepared to deal with dwarves. And in Seattle, there's no shortage (pun intended) of dwarves in potential positions to figure into games. DeeCee has more than a few dwarven power players as well.
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+1
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Yeah, why not. Even if it's Shadowrun, Tolkien probably existed. I could see some dwarven tribe setting up in one of those mesas out west.
It's stated that Metatypes hate Tolkien for the preconceived notions that people have about the "Mythical Races" that even continues into the 2070s.
That said, some of them have grasped the "stereotype" with both hands really hard.
As for Dwarves getting the short end of the stick, what other type of stick did you expect the Halfers to get? ;D
(BTW: Clockwork is a Hobgoblin, an Ork-Metavariant. Not a Dwarf. When posting about Netcat, however, he becomes a Matrix Troll. ;D )
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(BTW: Clockwork is a Hobgoblin, an Ork-Metavariant. Not a Dwarf. When posting about Netcat, however, he becomes a Matrix Troll. ;D )
That's what I've always understood about him too. But he did make a comment about how the BTR-20 APC in Eurowar Antiques wasn't built for a dwarf because he needed a stool. I thought that made things a little confusing.
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There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype. It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies. Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?
Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time. But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.
... Put it to you this way: If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.
What's in NORAD? I know that the US government blew it up before they left. But I don't recall there actually being anything in it, other then a lot of rocks.
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There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype. It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies. Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?
Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time. But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.
... Put it to you this way: If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.
What's in NORAD? I know that the US government blew it up before they left. But I don't recall there actually being anything in it, other then a lot of rocks.
Really???
....I got a job for you.
.... bring bug spray, a bible, and brush up on your yoga.
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There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype. It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies. Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?
Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time. But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.
... Put it to you this way: If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.
What's in NORAD? I know that the US government blew it up before they left. But I don't recall there actually being anything in it, other then a lot of rocks.
Really???
....I got a job for you.
.... bring bug spray, a bible, and brush up on your yoga.
Some ketchup wouldn't hurt, either.
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(BTW: Clockwork is a Hobgoblin, an Ork-Metavariant. Not a Dwarf. When posting about Netcat, however, he becomes a Matrix Troll. ;D )
That's what I've always understood about him too. But he did make a comment about how the BTR-20 APC in Eurowar Antiques wasn't built for a dwarf because he needed a stool. I thought that made things a little confusing.
No, Clockwork is a hob. Hobs did, notably, get whacked with the short-and-skinny stick in comparison to other orks, which is probably one reason (of many) why Clockwork has such a burr up his ass. I wouldn't bet that he doesn't have a few mechanic contacts who are dwarves, though, therefore the comment.
As for dwarves in general in SR ... well, Namikaze hit it out of the park with his post, but I do know that they do tend to not be played except by people who want to play technogeeks and those few who get smart about their sorcery. (C'mon - +2 Will?) Even the sharp decker-players will go with a dwarf - again for that Will boost, this time against Black IC.
In regards to them being players racially, having a 'homeland', well, the thing about SR is that really, there's a dozen or so elves shoving the 'racial homeland' thing down other peoples' throats. How's that work, really, when culture plays the biggest part in your life? You grow up on the Indian subcontinent, you're Indian - whether you're troll, ork, elf, human, dwarf, or tiger shapeshifter, y'know? Talk to someone from Africa, and they're not 'black'; they have a culture, a tribe, and by-god you better realize it before you're chewing on your own hip, your foot is so far in your mouth.
Give it five hundred or a thousand years down the line, when elves HAVE congregated together naturally due to lifespan (who gets the 'Pinky and the Brain' jokes now, huh? And it's only been a couple dozen years ...), where ork breeding has naturally given them overwhelming dominance in an area, where Everything In the Black Forest Is Built To Very Fraggin' Big An' Tall An' Tough Dimensions - or where instead of countertops set at 6' height, they're all set at 2'4" in a buildings built for families where nobody but NOBODY is over 5' tall. Then you'll have 'racial homelands' - but to be entirely honest, I wouldn't bet on that any more. Interesting in a fantasy campaign, but in reality, not always functional - especially when interbreeding is possible.
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"Ah'm a Dwarf." "Right. Three metres tall without the horns, and you're a Dwarf." "Mahm wuz a Dwarf. Dahd wuz a Dwarf. Ah'm a Dwarf! YA GOTZ DAT???" "Yes. Please don't eat me. And can you put me down gently now?"
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"Ah'm a Dwarf." "Right. Three metres tall without the horns, and you're a Dwarf." "Mahm wuz a Dwarf. Dahd wuz a Dwarf. Ah'm a Dwarf! YA GOTZ DAT???" "Yes. Please don't eat me. And can you put me down gently now?"
use the old "Troll mothering" technique....
That is where you put the person's ENTIRE head in the troll's mouth!
Great for washing faces, calming a tantrum, or initimidating someone!
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Funny part of thw topic of inexistent dwarven homeland...most Caers in 4th world were built by dwarves, Throal etc...iirc, and by allowing people inside they helped metahumanity to survive the Scourge. Until they have an oportunity to discover the legacy of their kind, they may seem to have minor role in the setting. Strange no word about this hitvthe streets, with SK and Atlantean foundation diging the Ukraine/Barsaive for a few decades. I have plotline for this in my games, well iirc there is much less about that in official game sources. Or did I missed something?
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"Ah'm a Dwarf." "Right. Three metres tall without the horns, and you're a Dwarf." "Mahm wuz a Dwarf. Dahd wuz a Dwarf. Ah'm a Dwarf! YA GOTZ DAT???" "Yes. Please don't eat me. And can you put me down gently now?"
Which side of Mungo's family is this from? ;) ::)
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Or did I missed something?
... maybe the part about a general move to separate SR from ED ... ?? Yes, it gets tinkered around some, but ...
ICly, you're also talking about events of 5,000+ years ago, and a bunch of people who don't want to blab, and have reasons to cover up or discredit theorization. And how, exactly, can one say, "Oh, this is clearly dwarven work" when your current oldest known dwarven work is fifty years old???
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Or did I missed something?
... maybe the part about a general move to separate SR from ED ... ?? Yes, it gets tinkered around some, but ...
ICly, you're also talking about events of 5,000+ years ago, and a bunch of people who don't want to blab, and have reasons to cover up or discredit theorization. And how, exactly, can one say, "Oh, this is clearly dwarven work" when your current oldest known dwarven work is fifty years old???
I am aware of that schism that happened after Fasa broke down some years ago. Well I am not sure if there is official line that says: there are no links to that game and universe, now we are doing is differently... how deep and significant is zhat divide...if you have some insight?
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Funny part of thw topic of inexistent dwarven homeland...most Caers in 4th world were built by dwarves, Throal etc...iirc, and by allowing people inside they helped metahumanity to survive the Scourge. Until they have an oportunity to discover the legacy of their kind, they may seem to have minor role in the setting. Strange no word about this hitvthe streets, with SK and Atlantean foundation diging the Ukraine/Barsaive for a few decades. I have plotline for this in my games, well iirc there is much less about that in official game sources. Or did I missed something?
There's also the Atlantean Foundation's ongoing archaeological digs on the island of Santorini, in the Aegean Sea - it's relevant because in the Bronze Age (real world) Santorini was actually named Thera. I think it was the great dragons who spread the know-how of building kaers, not dwarves. There were dwarven, orkish, trollish and elven kaers, built by each metatype.
Considering the topological changes in the Barsaive area, which nobody seems to have clued into, S-K and the AF are searching the wrong area (if they want to find Throal, anyway).
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It was pretty fast and loose to begin with (given the different development dates for ED and SR)
But after the split? There is next to 0 references to the 4th world/ED. Heck even the artifacts missions tried to keep their distance to ED....
Copyrights, and IP is a murky world that Topps and Catalyst don't want to enter.... especially with a new company out there hungry for money and owning the ED rights...
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Funny part of thw topic of inexistent dwarven homeland...most Caers in 4th world were built by dwarves, Throal etc...iirc, and by allowing people inside they helped metahumanity to survive the Scourge. Until they have an oportunity to discover the legacy of their kind, they may seem to have minor role in the setting. Strange no word about this hitvthe streets, with SK and Atlantean foundation diging the Ukraine/Barsaive for a few decades. I have plotline for this in my games, well iirc there is much less about that in official game sources. Or did I missed something?
There's also the Atlantean Foundation's ongoing archaeological digs on the island of Santorini, in the Aegean Sea - it's relevant because in the Bronze Age (real world) Santorini was actually named Thera. I think it was the great dragons who spread the know-how of building kaers, not dwarves. There were dwarven, orkish, trollish and elven kaers, built by each metatype.
Considering the topological changes in the Barsaive area, which nobody seems to have clued into, S-K and the AF are searching the wrong area (if they want to find Throal, anyway).
Yeah. I was trying to identify some orientation points for my campaign an it was more like caucasian mountains
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Oooooh, Trolls in the Black Forest? I love the name of that place, partially thanks to Ragnarok Online. So there's a lot of trolls there? I should ask Sangius for some tips to set up a Shadowrun there.
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Black Forest, as well as being the Troll Kingdom, is also a Great Dragon playground . . .
Have fun!!!
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Will do! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Black Forest, as well as being the Troll Kingdom, is also a Great Dragon playground . . .
Have fun!!!
What books has information on that? Thanks.
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Books:
FAS7204 Germany
FanPro10666 Dragons of the Sixth World
FanPro25002 Shadows of Europe
If there's any other info out there, I haven't read it.
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Or did I missed something?
... maybe the part about a general move to separate SR from ED ... ?? Yes, it gets tinkered around some, but ...
ICly, you're also talking about events of 5,000+ years ago, and a bunch of people who don't want to blab, and have reasons to cover up or discredit theorization. And how, exactly, can one say, "Oh, this is clearly dwarven work" when your current oldest known dwarven work is fifty years old???
I am aware of that schism that happened after Fasa broke down some years ago. Well I am not sure if there is official line that says: there are no links to that game and universe, now we are doing is differently... how deep and significant is zhat divide...if you have some insight?
Only things already mentioned in both exist in both. We know longer know, well, damn near anything about the 4th World.