Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Previous Editions => Topic started by: lord_shadow_666 on <03-06-14/1549:15>
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Hey guys, I am rolling up an AI for my other half as she wont be able to join us all the time.
So a few questions to start with, when it comes to shooting using a done, does she use the gunnery skill or the specific fun skill or do they stack?
Also which attribute does she use or is it the sensor rating of the drone/vehicle she is in?
Also what are a good set of skills other than the Cracking/Electronic groups?
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honestly, AI's are problematic. I'd keep away from them unless you've got a real thing for AIs. their bodies are seriously expensive to buy, not very concealable, they require quite a bit of GM fiat and almost play out like drone riggers a lot of the time.
Is your partner really into AI stuff? would they be ok with a hacker/TM?
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Whats a TM?
She is up for the AI thing and the DM is looking forward to playing with one in the group.
So able to help with the questions?
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Whats a TM?
TechnoMancer.
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Ah TM's are a NO and the AI is basically a drone controller with no body, we are sort of avoiding matrix combat for as long as we can :D
So shooting and things.
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Ah TM's are a NO and the AI is basically a drone controller with no body, we are sort of avoiding matrix combat for as long as we can :D
Which is what every sane technomancer and AI does anyways. :P
Curious as to the reasons for such an emphatic stance against technomancers, though...
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They take too much time away from the rest of the game, an AI might if we get caught up in too much matrix stuff.
So can anyone help me with the questions I came here to ask?
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AFB just now, but I'm pretty sure AIs piloting drones function pretty much exactly like anyone else in hot-sim. Unwired has a handy table of common rigger rolls, iirc.
Skillsets are wildly dependent on what kind of AI we're looking at. Piloting and Mechanics are great for a pilot type. More important than skills, though, are the core programs, as they're a character defining trait. Do you have the origin of the AI pinned down? That informs a lot of the rest of the work, as metasapient AIs are very much an allegorical avatar of their old code selves. Even amongst similar character roles: A rigger type, for instance, could have started piloting a tank or a spy blimp and each one would end up with a much different personality and skillset.
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Wow, shadow. A little easily pissed off, are we? It's been 3 hours and you're already getting to the entitlement stage?
First - you posted this in the wrong section. It should be in Previous Editions.
Second - you're asking about how to implement one of the most complicated types of characters available.
Third - you're verbally jabbing at the people who are trying to help you, simply because they want to know more.
Fourth - good luck finding help with an attitude like that.
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They take too much time away from the rest of the game, an AI might if we get caught up in too much matrix stuff.
So can anyone help me with the questions I came here to ask?
They don't do that in any way that's different from other Matrix archetypes. If it's a concern for them, be aware it's a concern for any Matrix character, though the fully remote types (AIs and Full Immersion characters) might actually be worse for it. That's actually why I was asking the question - so that I can actually give you good advice. Based on your goals, I'm not sure an AI is the right idea...
As for skills, regardless of that... Piloting and Mechanics skills would be essential, and the Pilot Origin quality might be wise. Capabilities of her drones is a big question as well.
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Ah no idea about a techno to be honest, just no its not on the cards. I have her Pilot origin as that just rocks.
She is looking to lay down heavy firepower at the moment, as with 3 LMGs to boot and 2 reinforced mounts I need to fill :D
So the main question is what makes her dice pool for shooting?
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Gunnery+Command, generally.
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Thanks.
Gun wise I am thinking Ingram white knights, is there a better choice in drone mounted weaponry?
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You're correct that this thread is posted in the wrong subforum, but don't look for insults. lord_shadow read as perfectly conversational to me, and is asking legitimate questions. That an AI is even more problematic to handle than a spirit or technomancer is true, but not something that's necessarily reason enough to shut down the option.
As to drone weaponry, the Ingram White Knight is a great LMG, but like other MGs (or more generally heavy weapons) is a big weapon for serious firepower and suppression. It's cheaper and often easier to use carbines/assault rifles, and I've heard of successful riggers who've slapped sniper rifles onto blimp drones for their own overwatch. An AI would have the same issues getting heavy hardware that other characters would, in addition to having a LOT to pay for. As far as matrix combat and actions...it's an AI. That's inevitably going to come up, if not soon than eventually - unless your GM has decided to allow you to bypass the one main obstacle of an AI which can potentially be as bad an idea as a GM running a campaign with awakened and never running across Background Count. It's inconvenient, maybe dangerous, but it's part of the setting and should be there at least some of the time.
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I think I am the only awakened spell slinger and an adept so background count wouldn't hinder us to much :D
I had been looking at a few of the assault rifles, she gets 3 combat drones so I was going to do a predator/wandjina or out of This old drone as air support and suppressing fire armed with LMGs/ARs. Does the suppression stack? I only have ever used SS and SA weapons myself.
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AFB just now, but I'm pretty sure AIs piloting drones function pretty much exactly like anyone else in hot-sim. Unwired has a handy table of common rigger rolls, iirc.
Its page 105, thank you for that :D
Guessing an AI counts as a Remote-controled if she has taken control of it or does she count as jumped in?
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Well, this is where things get stupid fast.
Is it the drone designated as her home node? Or is it an other drone?
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Well, this is where things get stupid fast.
Don't say things like that, not picked a home node for her yet, possibly going to be a van or part of a military mothballing installation. I am trying to use old drones. Do any of the books/pdfs have obsolete guns? I think one of the Gun Haven books does but not sure.
So onto the which gun and grenade launcher will make a Predator drone "pretty", yes I have been asked to make it pretty!
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You've been asked to make a pretty done that houses an artificial intelligence, rather than making a Decker/TM that uses a gun. How does this not sound a little silly?
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the reason it gets stupid, fast is now you have to worry about a host of issues.
First (if I remember right) is the home node, IF that node gets taken offline or separated from you (the AI) you basically start to die until you spend karma to get a new home node. This poses several problems. First, now the AI has to move out of the "home node" losing that advantage (it is pretty huge!), and must either "ride" a drone or be cut off from the party when they hit a Wi-Fi free zone, or hit a Wi-Fi inhibited area.
So now, you have to track 3 matrix stats. The home node stat, drones (jumped in) and drones (remote). each will have a different initiative, firewall, and other characteristics.
essentially the character operates with all the rules of a Rigger, just changed to represent the AI race (and the benefits of its origin). Except the character is considered to be "online" ALL the time... which means brush up on your matrix rules as they will come into effect 100% of the time now. Oh and brush up on Signal strength, this will become important for drones and the AI.
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You've been asked to make a pretty done that houses an artificial intelligence, rather than making a Decker/TM that uses a gun. How does this not sound a little silly?
If you cannot help a conversation be quite.
She wanted an AI I built her an AI.
I know there are trolls in shadowrun but you can leave your character at the table!
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In a slightly abrasive way he is trying to highlight problems with the character concept you require.
Ai's are hard to build effectively and take an awful lot of rules learning and gming too.
You don't wanna hear it obviously, but we're thinking it.
If she wants to play it and your GM is cool with it, then great, have fun guys. Just be aware that Ai's are really difficult to play, build and GM for.
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Reaver, I missed your post, I cant see the DM killing the home hub for now but if he does it will probably be to kill off the character rather than allow it to jump ship, plus to aid comms each drone has sat comms to keep in contact.
Matrix wise I have my cheat sheets that seem pretty good and should cover everything, if not I will have to make a few more.
Csjarrat, if I opened the thread saying I am looking to make an AI rigger is this ok then yes saying take a TM or rigger would have been fine, but to jump up and down going no no you are wrong just annoyed me. Being pointed to the Rigger tricks section of Unwired was all I really needed and while yes I have seen that the AIs may look troublesome (read are there) this one didn't take me that long to build. It took longer picking out older drones but other than that it all looks good.
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You've been asked to make a pretty done that houses an artificial intelligence, rather than making a Decker/TM that uses a gun. How does this not sound a little silly?
If you cannot help a conversation be quite.
She wanted an AI I built her an AI.
I know there are trolls in shadowrun but you can leave your character at the table!
A) It's "quiet" not "quite." Two very different things.
B) I'm not trolling you. I'm pointing out that what you're asking is very odd, very difficult to accomplish, and very troublesome for the GM.
C) As I've pointed out in previous posts - your defensive attitude about things is going to make it hard to take you seriously.
And with that, I bid you adieu. Enjoy your weirdly sexy AI drone gun thing. And your dragon sniper thing. God, this is why I hated the Runner's Companion's sections on additional metatypes and alternate character designs. I mean really? Why the hell would an AI want to run the shadows? I can barely fathom why Perrianwyr ran the shadows - an AI is even more alien. Whatever.
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Worse than straight up attempting to destroy the home node; an AI can be forced into realignment by resetting the node they're in. If they're in realignment when the node they're in is reset, they cease to exist.
AIs also have a hardcoded Access ID, which is the ID used when running a trace on someone, and is separate from the Access ID of their drones or home node.
To get around this, you require the Code Flux quality or a Spoof test with a day-long interval. The former means moving your code around between nodes you have admin access to until your Access ID changes (then you don't have admin access anymore - for all intents and purposes, you're a different AI on the matrix) and the latter takes way too long to be of use in a pinch.
On the topic of why an AI would run the shadows - because it syncs well with their origin and motivations. Look up Almost Human and consider the possibilities. Just don't run them RAW in SR4.
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Look up Almost Human and consider the possibilities. Just don't run them RAW in SR4.
Are you referring to the TV show, or a book I'm not aware of?
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The tv show. Yes, AIs are created spontaneously rather than manufactured for a purpose, but their originating code is manufactured for a purpose.
You could almost rewrite the show to fit SR with Dorian being an AI evolved from an Mx, if SR hadn't taken the curious direction it did with humanoid drones.
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I understand what you mean about an AI being created with a purpose. But rarely would that purpose involve even half the things that shadowrunners deal with. Even if it's a combat program that's been turned loose, there are lots of runs that don't involve combat. And I doubt that a combat AI would be comfortable with the face sitting around chatting his way through a problem when it could be shooting things. I just can't see an AI being a typical shadowrunner. The idea of the police drone program going rogue sounds interesting, but it should still be shackled to it's code in such a way that it wouldn't become a criminal. I can really only see AIs being playable characters in a game that's designed explicitly around the AI. And most tables wouldn't find that comfortable, giving that much of the spotlight to one player.
But now we're way off topic, and the lord of shadows has asked that I leave his thread. Otherwise, his number of the beast reference might come out and get me. *shivers in his boots*
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There's no such thing as a "combat AI" (there's AI's that came from combat programs, but they're still multi-dimensional sapient beings), Namikaze, and metasapient AI's simply aren't as alien as you seem to think.
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Namikaze if you cannot understand how to role play an AI may I suggest you leave the thread and go back to reading unwired and the runners companion as it does describe it quite well in there.
There are many reasons why an AI could have come around, is it adapted programing or someone that was left inside during the crash. So if you cannot help a topic sod off, if you want to know why I am defensive is I came here for help about a set subject not have the character design questioned and people just saying no you are wrong, do not do it! Oh and the dragon thing, don't get me started on that one!
Novocrane, is it worth the watch I haven't heard of it before.
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Novocrane, is it worth the watch I haven't heard of it before.
IMO, if you like morality driven drama, its worth a watch. there is a UK and a US version (entirely different cast and plot twists)... So you can pick your flavor.
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There's no such thing as a "combat AI" (there's AI's that came from combat programs, but they're still multi-dimensional sapient beings), Namikaze, and metasapient AI's simply aren't as alien as you seem to think.
I meant an AI that comes from a combat program or was explicitly developed for combat applications. See the new Dragonfall expansion for Shadowrun Returns and you'll see what I mean.
Namikaze if you cannot understand how to role play an AI may I suggest you leave the thread and go back to reading unwired and the runners companion as it does describe it quite well in there.
I have read both books, extensively. And ultimately, the problem is still the same: playing an AI in a group is typically a bad idea. But it's your bad idea, so have fun!
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Cant see it as a bad idea but I will have fun and I will get around to dragonfall at some point.
Reaver> I will have a look for the UK version and probably watch the US first episode to compare the difference.
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Cant see it as a bad idea but I will have fun and I will get around to dragonfall at some point.
Reaver> I will have a look for the UK version and probably watch the US first episode to compare the difference.
won't see it in the first season at all as the changes were mostly cosmetic. It's season 2 and on that the stories really diverge. But both are actually worth watch and on Netflix (US) is you have it.
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Nope not got netflix at the moment, is the UK version the same name as I can only find info on the US one.
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There's no such thing as a "combat AI" (there's AI's that came from combat programs, but they're still multi-dimensional sapient beings), Namikaze, and metasapient AI's simply aren't as alien as you seem to think.
I meant an AI that comes from a combat program or was explicitly developed for combat applications. See the new Dragonfall expansion for Shadowrun Returns and you'll see what I mean.
Oh, I understand what you mean - but the term is wholly inaccurate for the AIs in SR4.
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Nope not got netflix at the moment, is the UK version the same name as I can only find info on the US one.
exact same name, and both are con-currently ongoing.
try searching "Being Human(U.K)"
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Eh? Being Human is a completely different series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_Human_(TV_series) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_Human_(TV_series))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Human_(TV_series) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Human_(TV_series))