Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: joe15552 on <04-02-14/0709:17>
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Apparently, technomancers don't need to Hack on the Fly or Brute Force in order to gain access to a grid. All they have to do is Thread Transcendent Grid, and they have access...wait... no not just access, they are actually connected to all grids. Okay, so.... the description for "Transcendent Grid" says that "You broaden your connection to the matrix..." implying that before the technomancer threaded this complex form, they had access to the matrix. Which grid were they using? Did they need to ask their neighbor if they can use their IP, or did they just pop up on whatever grid was closest to them?
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Would it matter?
Assume the public grid, but remember that the lifestyles have access to a grid as well.
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Would it matter?
Assume the public grid, but remember that the lifestyles have access to a grid as well.
It matters because performing actions on a grid that you are not on incurs a -2 dice pool penalty. It also matters because if a technomancer's living persona appears on a grid besides the public node, it means one of 3 things:
1) The technomancer is a registered technomancer and has legal access to the grid.
2) The technomancer has gained access via hack on the fly or brute force
3) The technomancer has connected by threading Treanscendent Grid
And all 3 of those things are traceable.
If a technomancer's living persona is on some kind of fancy grid because of their lifestyle, that implies they are a registered technomancer.... which is not what your average shadowrunner wants to be.
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Life style doesn't mean legal, just access. It could be a semi permanent hack.
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Would it matter?
Assume the public grid, but remember that the lifestyles have access to a grid as well.
It matters because performing actions on a grid that you are not on incurs a -2 dice pool penalty. It also matters because if a technomancer's living persona appears on a grid besides the public node, it means one of 3 things:
1) The technomancer is a registered technomancer and has legal access to the grid.
2) The technomancer has gained access via hack on the fly or brute force
3) The technomancer has connected by threading Treanscendent Grid
And all 3 of those things are traceable.
If a technomancer's living persona is on some kind of fancy grid because of their lifestyle, that implies they are a registered technomancer.... which is not what your average shadowrunner wants to be.
I think you might be over-thinking things. A Person (not a type of person) is what gets access to a Grid through lifestyle. It's how you get onto the Matrix that matters. Anyone can slip on a pair of trodes and have access to the public grid. Just because a TM is on a grid doesn't mean he's registered as a Technomancer. He's just registered as a person with access to a specific grid. It doesn't set off any flags until someone stops to wonder what kind of device someone is using to access the grid, and finds none. That's why it is sometimes advisable for a TM to carry an active commlink, because if someone looks at a TM and sees an active commlink, then the common assumption is that the commlink is getting them there.
As for tracing a TM's use of Transcendent Grid, Resonance Actions are typically seen as matrix anomalies. Matrix Devices don't always know how to deal with them, so I wouldn't assume that anyone could just trace a TM's use of it. Only other TMs and Resonance Critters can trace Resonance Signitures (p.250)
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Problem though.. having an active commlink means its going to show up as a device online, when normally a persons persona overtakes the device icon. You can only have one persona though
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Life style doesn't mean legal, just access. It could be a semi permanent hack.
How does a semi permanent hack work? I've never heard of that before.... and it sounds like a hacker or a technomancer could do it for free and not have it depend on how wealthy he/she is.
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Problem though.. having an active commlink means its going to show up as a device online, when normally a persons persona overtakes the device icon. You can only have one persona though
This is an issue I am having, too.
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Lie and say it's an implanted commlink? And then hope they don't have a way of detecting it, which could raise problems.
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You seem to be looking for a lot of specificity where the writers seemed to prefer vagueness. If the basic rules of the book don't work for you (Lifestyle determining grid access) then I guess you just need to make something up or wait for whatever supplement is going to cover purchasing grid access a la carte where it may be explained better.
To me, the basic route isn't that much of a problem. The character pays for lifestyle costs which can represent legal payments or bribes to gain access to certain utilities including water, power, and telecommunication services.
Not sure what the issue with the commlink is. You can carry one and just turn the wireless off, with your LP hanging around in the matrix. It should pass muster in the majority of cases.
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Lie and say it's an implanted commlink? And then hope they don't have a way of detecting it, which could raise problems.
Yeah, the purpose of having an active comlink in the first place would be so people that DO have a way of detecting it will detect it and assume that's how you're on the matrix.
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Which grid were they using?
It depend on their lifestyle.
At least of you go by RAW.
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You can have the commlink on and not being your Persona. Otherwise, how would they act as masters of a PAN (since a Persona can't be part of one)?
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Yes, but it shows up as a device. Your trying to fool someone looking at you online and is goid enough to detect the device you are using
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You can have the commlink on and not being your Persona. Otherwise, how would they act as masters of a PAN (since a Persona can't be part of one)?
Assuming that you can use your commlink to both form your persona and be a master of a PAN at the same time. Can't really find any rules to support that interpretation...
Yes, but it shows up as a device. Your trying to fool someone looking at you online and is goid enough to detect the device you are using
as i read it;
commlink show up as a device icon when you don't form a persona icon on it.
when you use it to form a persona icon it will no longer show up as a device icon.
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Yes, but it shows up as a device. Your trying to fool someone looking at you online and is goid enough to detect the device you are using
Exactly how does someone determine what device you used to form your PAN? If the device icon is subsumed, I'm not sure a matrix perception check would cut it. I'd rule that it would require a successful Trace Icon test and a physical search. If you keep a commlink on you and turn the wireless off, it could probably pass a basic search. Granted, if whoever searched the TM then shut the commlink off and the TMs icon didn't disappear, well...
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If an action is performed on a persona that would work on the device a person was on for example, if there is no device then the actiin could fail. Like trying to spoof commands on a technomancer, or pull up files ect. It isnt somethi.g that happens all the time, but it could happen eith higher security.
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If an action is performed on a persona that would work on the device a person was on for example, if there is no device then the actiin could fail. Like trying to spoof commands on a technomancer, or pull up files ect. It isnt somethi.g that happens all the time, but it could happen eith higher security.
It's kind of questionable if that even works though. I think I remember a thread about whether you could reboot a deck that was being used to form a persona and the consensus was no, since it wasn't a device anymore. Matrix actions don't have the CF interchangeable target thing, IIRC.
Honestly, the entire rule-set needs to be clarified or re-written to better explain all of these concepts.
With that said and with an eye toward the OP, I do think that the rules are pretty clear with respect to how one accesses grids, whether it makes sense or not.
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Aye. I had similar questions about it earlier. Its about the rp accessing more than the mechanics.
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2014 wi-fi often require a password or something similar.
to use a global grid you probably also need a password or something similar.
high lifestyle pay for the subscription fee to access a global grid
(if you have lower than high lifestyle you can presumable pay extra money to subscribe)
a technomancer with high lifestyle probably have access to use a global grid
he got the correct passcodes or whatever you need to access it.
why would it matter if he form a persona on his commlink to access it or if he use his living persona to access it..?
just accept and move on. hand wave it. or make up fluff as you go. shrug.
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This thread is confusing. The topic was initially about how the Transcendent Grid Complex Form works, but now it's about commlinks?
The Transcendent Grid thing is simple enough: you're connected to all grids at once. Instead of segregated Grids, they're essentially all one Grid.
Also, the OP was asking about what grid the technomancer was on to begin with. The answer is this: it depends on your lifestyle. If you're at low or less, you are on the Public Grid, which is crap to begin with. If you're at medium, you are on a city, local, or region grid (like the Emerald City grid in Seattle). If you're at high or above, you're on one of the megacorp grids.
As stated earlier, having access isn't the same as being registered. We actually don't have a clue how the Grids register users. The Trace Icon action can trace a location regardless of the Grid the icon is running on. We don't have rules for how to use Trace Icon after the icon has gone offline either - so the answer gets complicated.
As to the secondary topic of a technomancer using a commlink - you can't use the commlink to spoof your location or grid while still using any Resonance abilities (including Complex Forms). The only way that the commlink would spoof your location would be if you ran your persona through it. And that's not going to work well for a technomancer. Even without the Resonance action issue, a commlink lacks the Attack and Sleaze attributes, so you'd be useless for hacking.
You can run a commlink to broadcast your SIN, manage your PAN, etc. as a technomancer just fine. Your Living Persona doesn't actually have to be active until you want it to be active. You're not running around involuntarily broadcasting a signal - you're in control of it. 4th edition had rules for handling a technomancer that stays hidden for extended periods of time, but with the changes to the Matrix I'd be surprised if those rules made it back into 5th edition.
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As stated earlier, having access isn't the same as being registered. We actually don't have a clue how the Grids register users. The Trace Icon action can trace a location regardless of the Grid the icon is running on. We don't have rules for how to use Trace Icon after the icon has gone offline either - so the answer gets complicated.
I think this may have been what I'm looking for.... even though the answer is "we don't know." If we don't know how grids register users, then it is not apart of the game mechanics, and should not be attacked, defended, compromised, or.... what I was doing.... thought too much about. I'll go with accepting the fact that technomancers have access to grids based on lifestyle, and keep it at that.
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As stated earlier, having access isn't the same as being registered. We actually don't have a clue how the Grids register users. The Trace Icon action can trace a location regardless of the Grid the icon is running on. We don't have rules for how to use Trace Icon after the icon has gone offline either - so the answer gets complicated.
I think this may have been what I'm looking for.... even though the answer is "we don't know." If we don't know how grids register users, then it is not apart of the game mechanics, and should not be attacked, defended, compromised, or.... what I was doing.... thought too much about. I'll go with accepting the fact that technomancers have access to grids based on lifestyle, and keep it at that.
Yeah, don't sweat it omae. When Data Trails comes out they'll definitely go into it more. Maybe even just Run Faster if you assume it'd be included in the rules for advanced lifestyles (which is almost definitely gonna be in there).