Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Senko on <04-10-14/0822:33>
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I'm aware of the mechanical differences but flavour wise what's the physical differences between the two? Would I be right in thinkings its just like a modern laptop and a supercomputer. Both the same puece of equipmet and able to do the same things but one has a lot more processig power, memory, cooling capacity and the like or is there something more between them.
For example a cyberdeck can run a program that would cause a PDA to overheat and burn out components but its just a beefed up version for the price of half a years high living up?
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Think of a Commlink/PDA as an iPod. Simple music playing device, does everything a normal user needs it to do. It has a number of features built in, and more of them if you buy the expensive model.
A Cyberdeck then would be an DJ panel or a good Audio mixing console - it still plays music, but it allows expert users to do more.
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A commlink is a smartphone. A cyberdeck is an iPad.
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So no nothing different between more expensive models/pda and deck just hardware as I thought. Thanks, bit of a shame there's no fluff in the description of them.
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I don't understand what you were wanting. Decks are highly illegal, about the size of a tablet, but they work completely differently from the way a commlink works. A commlink can be really tiny, but generally you won't find them too much smaller than the smallest of our modern-day cell phones. A commlink is only for interfacing with the Matrix in a legal fashion, whereas a cyberdeck is almost exclusively built for illegal operations. There's a lot more differences than just size and hardware, so comparing them with iPads and iPods isn't really accurate except where size is concerned.
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I don't understand what you were wanting. Decks are highly illegal, about the size of a tablet, but they work completely differently from the way a commlink works. A commlink can be really tiny, but generally you won't find them too much smaller than the smallest of our modern-day cell phones. A commlink is only for interfacing with the Matrix in a legal fashion, whereas a cyberdeck is almost exclusively built for illegal operations. There's a lot more differences than just size and hardware, so comparing them with iPads and iPods isn't really accurate except where size is concerned.
Don't corporate deckers and programmers also use comeliness? That's not illegal. I don't think they would be manufactured if there was no legal function.
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Don't corporate deckers and programmers also use comeliness? That's not illegal. I don't think they would be manufactured if there was no legal function.
The cyberdecks that shadowrunners use are illegal - look at their Availability ratings. They're all Forbidden, not even Restricted (which would allow for licensed use). This suggests that the decks that corporate deckers, GOD, etc. use are different. We'll have to wait for Data Trails I suspect, to get more information on legal use of decks. There are tons of forbidden items that are available and manufactured all the time, even in today's age. Legality has nothing to do with it in a dystopian one.
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I think you are misunderstanding the definition of Forbidden as used in SR availability.
Forbidden items are never okay for anyone to own or buy or have—at least not for you, a private citizen on your own.
A corporate decker however is approved for using said device in the pursuit of corporate actions.
But you can bet he doesn't get to take it home with him at the end of the day, because it is not HIS device, rather it is a corporate asset.
Just like Mil Spec gear is Forbidden, your normal Joe can not legally go out and buy Hardened Mil Spec Battle Armor no matter how much money he has, but soldiers or corp elite forces may be issued these and they would not be pulled over by KE just for wearing it while in the performance of their military/corporate duties.
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The cyberdecks that shadowrunners use are illegal - look at their Availability ratings. They're all Forbidden, not even Restricted (which would allow for licensed use).
Uh, all listed cyberdecks in 5E are Restricted, not Forbidden.
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The cyberdecks that shadowrunners use are illegal - look at their Availability ratings. They're all Forbidden, not even Restricted (which would allow for licensed use).
Uh, all listed cyberdecks in 5E are Restricted, not Forbidden.
Motherf... yeah you're right. I don't know why I thought they were all F. Then that makes the point even more moot, I suppose. Thanks for keeping me honest, Jack. :)
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Motherf... yeah you're right. I don't know why I thought they were all F. Then that makes the point even more moot, I suppose. Thanks for keeping me honest, Jack. :)
NP. I had to double check to make sure my decker builds weren't illegal. I forget rules constantly.
Now... for whatever reason:
a) guns are Restricted
b) swords are Restricted
c) guns in your cyberarm are Restricted
b) swords in your cyberarm are Forbidden
To take it even further (strictly going by the tables) it is totally okay to have a silenced gun hidden in your cyberarm as long as you have a permit for it... boggles the mind.
Anyway, that's totally off-topic, but I've always found it funny.
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I don't understand what you were wanting. Decks are highly illegal, about the size of a tablet, but they work completely differently from the way a commlink works. A commlink can be really tiny, but generally you won't find them too much smaller than the smallest of our modern-day cell phones. A commlink is only for interfacing with the Matrix in a legal fashion, whereas a cyberdeck is almost exclusively built for illegal operations. There's a lot more differences than just size and hardware, so comparing them with iPads and iPods isn't really accurate except where size is concerned.
What I was wanting was to know whether the difference between them was like that between say a mobile phone and a desktop computer (memory, processing power cooling but otherwise same concept, components etc) or if there was some other fundamenetal difference (say like comparing a computer to an X-Ray machine in that it posseses other components that allow it to do functions a comlink simply can't do even if you got the top end model in components) if you see what I mean?
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What I was wanting was to know whether the difference between them was like that between say a mobile phone and a desktop computer (memory, processing power cooling but otherwise same concept, components etc) or if there was some other fundamenetal difference (say like comparing a computer to an X-Ray machine in that it posseses other components that allow it to do functions a comlink simply can't do even if you got the top end model in components) if you see what I mean?
I think the abstracted answer is that a deck has more computing power and the requisite hardware to go with it that allows it to run software that provides it with an attack and sleaze rating as well as allowing it to run programs.
I think the best modern-day analogy would be that a commlink is a smartphone and a deck is probably closer (in performance/functionality) to a laptop or other device capable of running a full OS ( a lot of tablets are still closer to smartphones than laptops in performance capabilities). You can't run a high-performance PC game on a smartphone for a variety of reasons.
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Motherf... yeah you're right. I don't know why I thought they were all F. Then that makes the point even more moot, I suppose. Thanks for keeping me honest, Jack. :)
NP. I had to double check to make sure my decker builds weren't illegal. I forget rules constantly.
Now... for whatever reason:
a) guns are Restricted
b) swords are Restricted
c) guns in your cyberarm are Restricted
b) swords in your cyberarm are Forbidden
Cultural views of what Cyberspurs are, combined with concealed weapons laws, and just laws in general. Don't forget that Shadowrun even admits some laws are insane, such as External Smartgun Links being legal in Quebec, but Integrated ones aren't.
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Cultural views of what Cyberspurs are, combined with concealed weapons laws, and just laws in general. Don't forget that Shadowrun even admits some laws are insane, such as External Smartgun Links being legal in Quebec, but Integrated ones aren't.
I can go with insane laws. I had tried to rationalize it similar to how switch-blades are illegal in a lot of places because they're perceived as the weapons of lower-class folks and ne'er-do-wells, but then cyberspurs cost more than the vast majority of cyberguns, so that didn't really fly given the cost.
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A Cyberdeck is a centuple-core tablet using a massively-optimized memory structure.
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Cultural views of what Cyberspurs are, combined with concealed weapons laws, and just laws in general. Don't forget that Shadowrun even admits some laws are insane, such as External Smartgun Links being legal in Quebec, but Integrated ones aren't.
I can go with insane laws. I had tried to rationalize it similar to how switch-blades are illegal in a lot of places because they're perceived as the weapons of lower-class folks and ne'er-do-wells, but then cyberspurs cost more than the vast majority of cyberguns, so that didn't really fly given the cost.
How about the concept of the person being the weapon instead of just wielding one, combined with concealed carry laws?
And Cyberspurs are seen as a "Gang Weapon" as well. As well as a "Shadowrunner" one, which pushes the "Terrorist" buttons.
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How about the concept of the person being the weapon instead of just wielding one, combined with concealed carry laws?
And Cyberspurs are seen as a "Gang Weapon" as well. As well as a "Shadowrunner" one, which pushes the "Terrorist" buttons.
I was comparing it to cyberguns which seem like they would also be a case of someone being the weapon and also run into concealed carry laws, yet they are merely restricted. As far as a gang weapon, I get the impression, but given the cost of cyberspurs versus a cybergun, it seems like anyone who was cost-conscious would opt for the latter over the former.
Maybe it's just me, but I definitely see a gun hidden in a cyberarm as being seen as a decidedly "assassin" kind of weapon.
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I think the main advantages of cyberspurs is that they're easily concealed, they don't need reloading, and they can be used for stealth kills. If you're going to devote essence or cyberarm space to get an implanted weapon, you might as well get one where you don't have to worry about the damage from a misfire taking out your arm.
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I don't understand what you were wanting. Decks are highly illegal, about the size of a tablet, but they work completely differently from the way a commlink works. A commlink can be really tiny, but generally you won't find them too much smaller than the smallest of our modern-day cell phones. A commlink is only for interfacing with the Matrix in a legal fashion, whereas a cyberdeck is almost exclusively built for illegal operations. There's a lot more differences than just size and hardware, so comparing them with iPads and iPods isn't really accurate except where size is concerned.
What I was wanting was to know whether the difference between them was like that between say a mobile phone and a desktop computer (memory, processing power cooling but otherwise same concept, components etc) or if there was some other fundamenetal difference (say like comparing a computer to an X-Ray machine in that it posseses other components that allow it to do functions a comlink simply can't do even if you got the top end model in components) if you see what I mean?
Decks have Matrix Attributes commlinks don't, and thus can be used to undertake actions commlinks cannot, no matter how top of the line. What the blend of hardware and software that makes that work IS, and precisely how different they are because of that, is extremely difficult to say without Data Trails.
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I don't understand what you were wanting. Decks are highly illegal, about the size of a tablet, but they work completely differently from the way a commlink works. A commlink can be really tiny, but generally you won't find them too much smaller than the smallest of our modern-day cell phones. A commlink is only for interfacing with the Matrix in a legal fashion, whereas a cyberdeck is almost exclusively built for illegal operations. There's a lot more differences than just size and hardware, so comparing them with iPads and iPods isn't really accurate except where size is concerned.
What I was wanting was to know whether the difference between them was like that between say a mobile phone and a desktop computer (memory, processing power cooling but otherwise same concept, components etc) or if there was some other fundamenetal difference (say like comparing a computer to an X-Ray machine in that it posseses other components that allow it to do functions a comlink simply can't do even if you got the top end model in components) if you see what I mean?
Decks have Matrix Attributes commlinks don't, and thus can be used to undertake actions commlinks cannot, no matter how top of the line. What the blend of hardware and software that makes that work IS, and precisely how different they are because of that, is extremely difficult to say without Data Trails.
Not ... really. One (again) just has to look at the way it's been handled previously. Commlinks are back to being the famous Pocket Secretary (as they always should have remained, but hey); they compare to a modern smartphone, and can do lots of stuff, but they simply haven't the computing power to spare to deal with the increased security issues that the upgraded Matrix 2.1 now possesses.
Cyberdecks (are back, yay!!) are more like a laptop computer; even a tablet computer really doesn't have the necessary room for the hefty amount of computing power and specialized hardware needed to load you up and deal with the upgraded security. Compare the programs you can run on a top-of-the-line smartphone and those you can run on a top-of-the-line laptop; the latter really do leave the former coughing in the starting-line dust.
In addition, while we may have to wait for specifics, past editions have made it possible that yeah, Senko, there are pieces of hardware (more than just a bigger/more processors, more memory, more disk space, etc.) that commlinks don't have that decks do. Evasion - for dodging attacks - used to be hardcoded chips that 'civilian' decks didn't have; 'Masking' - baseline concealment - was something that even security decks didn't have (though obviously they had Evasion). Hard-wired sleaze chips for keeping your profile low was something as well.
All in all, it simply makes sense that no matter how powerful a hand-sized gizmo gets, the larger-yet-still-portable 'laptop' sized version is going to remain straight-out better.
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Decks are highly illegal
Decks were highly illegal in SR3
(just possessing one was as illegal as possessing military grade forbidden weaponry!).
In SR5 a Deck is no more illegal or harder to buy than say a non-lethal Flash-Bang Grenade....
edit: slipped by JackVII it seems :)
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Not ... really. One (again) just has to look at the way it's been handled previously. Commlinks are back to being the famous Pocket Secretary (as they always should have remained, but hey); they compare to a modern smartphone, and can do lots of stuff, but they simply haven't the computing power to spare to deal with the increased security issues that the upgraded Matrix 2.1 now possesses.
This... Doesn't seem sufficient. Commlinks, after all, can be used for each and every Matrix action that doesn't depend on Attack or Sleaze. I don't think the past is really going to yield answers on that one. We're dealing with a radically different environment.
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IMO, the only reason we haven't been able to draw greater parallels between commlinks and the famous PocSec is because before 4e, they weren't sufficiently explored. Remember that SR tech parallels RL tech, only 'upgraded'. Sure, with a commlink you can get or change a file, link to a camera to see who's at the front door, tell your car to start up, make dinner reservations, etc. etc.; you probably could have done all that with a pocket secretary (and some of those you could explicitly do so). These days, you can even have a telepresence in the 'trix with a
pocket secretary commlink, something that admittedly required a deck in previous editions. But the only functional difference between the two - or rather, between a humdrum standard-issue workaday wageslave 'deck, a corporate security deck, and a highly-modified just-as-highly-illegal cyberdeck used by criminals everywhere is that the latter two get into cybercombat and have some expectation to win - and the latter wants to be completely invisible if they can manage it.
Combat is, let's face it, a complex thing. The difference between a Ford F-150 and an APC - or better yet, a Hummer 3 and a military HMMWV - is really relatively slight, and yet taking a Hummer 3 into a combat zone is frickin' suicidal, while the more combat-built HMMWV is going to greatly increase your chance of surviving the hour. It has a few specialized design specifics that make it liable to survive combat, and while both the HMMWV and the Hummer 3 can get you to the store, pick up a big load of plywood and nails, and get both you and the stuff out into BFE to build you a shack, it's the HMMWV that's going to get you into and out of contact without going literally to pieces.
From a metagame standpoint, it's my assertion that 4e going to commlinks lost an essential piece of flavor in the Shadowrun world, and though you can still run around and browse and the like on your cute little commlink, 5e has brought back the necessity of a serious, dedicated platform to slice into a place. Sure, with a commlink you can do everything that's legal for you to do. No problem; makes sense to me. But once you get into the realm of needing to go into combat - or wanting to do some serious coding, y'know, where the cops can't raid your code - then you need to pull out the 'deck.
Enh. YMMV.