Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Trojan on <05-08-14/2308:31>
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First, I'll say that I really like the high cost of Cyberdecks. Going from the Renraku to the Sony is a massive upgrade and it's not something I'd want to accomplish in a game sesh or two.
Second, I'll say I'm new to Shadowrun and may simply just not understand how the game works...
I'm looking at making between 4k and 8k a run, one run a month, 3k for the lifestyle, so I'll have enough to upgrade to that Sony in about... 10 years? Good thing I'm an elf! At the same time, I'm looking at the other players in the party, and that 8k translates into decently paced upgrades in their characters (at least I think so)
I don't want to break the game, but I also don't want to never be able to upgrade my character's deck. I see crafting as a possibility, but considering that the material costs are typically half of what the goal item's base cost is... I'll have enough in about 5 years :-/
How do you balance the credflow in your game? Or how does your GM do it? I don't want to make so much nuyen the game gets ridiculously easy, but decks are soooo expensive :-/. Am I missing something?
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Well, you can fence your old deck, for one, to finance the upgrade - fencing most gear nets (25 + 5*Net Hits)% of the item's cost, which can be a pretty significant chunk, especially if you've got a good Face to do this for you. Those payouts do seem a bit low to me, though... Saving for, say, Delta Wired Reflexes 3 or Beta Synaptic Boosters 3 would take freaking forever (the former costs about what the Shiawase Cyber-5 does), and if you can sell what you're replacing there at all it's for a pretty diminished value. Trying to advance a Rigger on that would get pretty seriously rough, too.
The important point, though, is actually to balance the nuyen rate against the Karma rate - the two are asymmetrically required by different archetypes for their advancement, so if things get out of whack advancement gets unbalanced.
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Yeah frankly it is not going to be feasible in most games, just like going from Synaptic Booster 2 to 3. And while homebrew "upgrading" rules might make sense for ware, even cultured bioware, it doesn't really make the same sense for decks.
I suggest trying to steal an upgrade!
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I would expect Data Trails to have some info on upgrading cyberdecks, possibly even scratch-building them, as those are things which prior editions of Shadowrun had.
I really only remember 3rd edition, and you could buy and replace each chip in your deck individually, but you had to make sure that the ratings stayed within what the other parts of the deck could handle - so you needed to make sure your MPCP (Device rating equivalent) stayed on par with your other chips - you couldn't just load a bleeding-edge Bod chip (roughly equates to firewall) into any old deck.
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Yeah frankly it is not going to be feasible in most games, just like going from Synaptic Booster 2 to 3. And while homebrew "upgrading" rules might make sense for ware, even cultured bioware, it doesn't really make the same sense for decks.
I suggest trying to steal an upgrade!
I can think of ways you could totally do this for decks, ie:
Upgraded memory banks. cost: 1% of deck cost. Threshold 15 extended LOG + HARDWARE (mental) test.
-Expands your deck's memory banks allowing it to run an extra program slot.
Filtered Feedthroughs:
Cost: 10,000 Threshold 20 extended LOG + HARDWARE (mental) test.
-Installation of filtered feedthroughs shields key components from heat and power spikes; Add 2 to your matrix damage resistance pool.
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I'm looking at making between 4k and 8k a run, one run a month, 3k for the lifestyle, so I'll have enough to upgrade to that Sony in about... 10 years? Good thing I'm an elf!
Well a Troll simply pays more for their Lifestyle, so they could go Squatter for 1 grand.
4k~8k per run is quite little by the way. Any decent run will already be a minimum of 9k before Negotiation, and likely you'll be dealing with ~14k after Negotiation if the party has a good Face. Subtract lifestyle and expenses and you're at ~11k per month. So yeah, it'd take a long while still, but so does all the expensive gear. And the GM can plan some runs and favors around getting better equipment at hand with the party.
Alternatively, take out an enemy decker and start driving/flying to keep out of reach of the company while you try to change the ownership.
And Data Trails will likely have a way of upgrading Cyberdecks.
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4k~8k per run is quite little by the way.
Breaks the Ford Americar rule, in fact.
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Breaks the Ford Americar rule, in fact.
What is the Ford Americar rule, out of curiosity?
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I am assuming RHat is referring to the "At this level of nuyen earning, it would be safer/easier just to steal Ford Americars and sell them for the same amount of money" rule.
And he would be correct.
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Breaks the Ford Americar rule, in fact.
What is the Ford Americar rule, out of curiosity?
Basically, runners would not do runs unless they paid more than they could make for things like boosting Ford Americars.
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How to finance that cyberdeck upgrade
1) Get a flunky and dress them up in a Ghillie suit. Settle in somewhere close but out of sight.
2) Have them turn the suit's Wireless to ON. Ghillie Suit Wireless Bonus: Um … you draw in curious Hackers?
3) Ambush said Hackers, take their decks to scavenge for parts (if building up your own) or sell on. Ka-Ching!
4) Rinse and repeat. :P
Yes that is a joke, but still amusing. :D
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Breaks the Ford Americar rule, in fact.
What is the Ford Americar rule, out of curiosity?
Basically, runners would not do runs unless they paid more than they could make for things like boosting Ford Americars.
Ha, I'm gonna have to share this with my group. I think we run on the low side of cash rewards too often. :-\
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See other suggestions in this thread (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=16008.msg281478#msg281478).
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I'm looking at making between 4k and 8k a run...
I wouldn't get too hung up on the suggestions for run payment in the book. They're clearly marked as optional and don't match up to the payments in the published adventures.
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How to finance that cyberdeck upgrade
1) Get a flunky and dress them up in a Ghillie suit. Settle in somewhere close but out of sight.
2) Have them turn the suit's Wireless to ON. Ghillie Suit Wireless Bonus: Um … you draw in curious Hackers?
3) Ambush said Hackers, take their decks to scavenge for parts (if building up your own) or sell on. Ka-Ching!
4) Rinse and repeat. :P
Yes that is a joke, but still amusing. :D
I wouldn't say it's a joke at all. The single most profitable thing most runners can do is rolling deckers.
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Yes that is a joke, but still amusing. :D
I wouldn't say it's a joke at all. The single most profitable thing most runners can do is rolling deckers.
So, set up something to be hacked, get a fixer you don't like to find a decker for your job. Then camp and frag. Invite friends, under the presumption that the sucker will too. Congratulations, you're a real Johnson now. >:(
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Yes that is a joke, but still amusing. :D
I wouldn't say it's a joke at all. The single most profitable thing most runners can do is rolling deckers.
So, set up something to be hacked, get a fixer you don't like to find a decker for your job. Then camp and frag. Invite friends, under the presumption that the sucker will too. Congratulations, you're a real Johnson now. >:(
Say, are you looking for work? I need this data stolen from Aztechnology and you sound perfect for the job!
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Reminder to self.
Don't bring your Cyberdeck to the meeting with Mr Johnson.
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Reminder to self.
Don't bring your Cyberdeck to the meeting with Mr Johnson.
As a Decker, I never personally go to the meet myself anyway. It's enough being there through your crew's devices / sensors and in VR. PROTECT THAT DECK! :D
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Reminder to self.
Don't bring your Cyberdeck to the meeting with Mr Johnson.
As a Decker, I never personally go to the meet myself anyway. It's enough being there through your crew's devices / sensors and in VR. PROTECT THAT DECK! :D
Really? Even with noise? I thought the whole point of the 5e ruleset is that the hacker can't just hang out at home and still be effective.
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Reminder to self.
Don't bring your Cyberdeck to the meeting with Mr Johnson.
As a Decker, I never personally go to the meet myself anyway. It's enough being there through your crew's devices / sensors and in VR. PROTECT THAT DECK! :D
And what do you do if it's a "starts right now, from right here" kind of job?
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Reminder to self.
Don't bring your Cyberdeck to the meeting with Mr Johnson.
As a Decker, I never personally go to the meet myself anyway. It's enough being there through your crew's devices / sensors and in VR. PROTECT THAT DECK! :D
What if it's in a location that doesn't have Matrix access (such as, say, portions of the Barrens)?
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And what do you do if it's a "starts right now, from right here" kind of job?
Then the Johnson is coming along, and the decker can meet you en route. Or else the Johnson is clearly unclear on the concept of Rule #3 of Johnsoning: Know what you're hiring for, and how who you're hiring matches that profile.
What if it's in a location that doesn't have Matrix access (such as, say, portions of the Barrens)?
Then you are very likely morons, have been suckered, are helping someone out, and/or deserve exactly what you're gonna get for meeting in some Z-zone location. Be private, but very close to a public space. Believe it or not, that's exactly why I like the back portion of public transportation - back of the bus, back of the last car on the train ...
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And what do you do if it's a "starts right now, from right here" kind of job?
Then the Johnson is coming along, and the decker can meet you en route. Or else the Johnson is clearly unclear on the concept of Rule #3 of Johnsoning: Know what you're hiring for, and how who you're hiring matches that profile.
Or it could be a courier job or something of the like, or simply quite time sensitive, or what have you. The basic point here is that being remote like that is impractical.
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That, I think, is a matter of taste, but I understand your point.
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Just be out in the van up the road with the rigger that should be at the wheel just invade the meet goes south
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not walking around with an expansive cyberdeck is also one of the [few] benefits of playing a technomancer over a decker...
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Until someone from Team Clockwork turns you in for the bounty on TMs some private parties are still financing, which can also go toward the Build A Deck Fund . :P
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Eh, you could always save up 40k and install an Area Bomb in your head to avoid situations like that.
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Eh, you could always save up 40k and install an Area Bomb in your head to avoid situations like that.
Ah, Team We All Go.
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Stealing decks...hmm wheredid I read about that before .. stealing decks?? aaah yeah now I remember, it was in one of those "how do I stop my players from looting all the time?" threads. I believe most of the answers were something along the lines of " .. trace the loot and punish them!!" or " give them so much notoriety, that they might as well retire " etc.
My point is, if it turns out the GM is not ok with this sort of behaviour. Your decker might be in bigger troubles than having an outdated deck.
Talk with your GM, maybe he is willing to make a run where you were to meet your nemesis decker, you get to hate each other for a few runs until in the end you defeat him and yank his deck.
Another alternative: there is 130K difference between the renraku and sony deck. The sony has a higher device rating, 3 increased stats and is able to run an extra program. For every 30K you can upgrade 1 stat by 1, until after 150K it has the same stats as the sony.
But yeah, it does sound like you need to find a better fixer with better paying runs. :)
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RE: Not going to meets with a Decker - I'm somewhere close by in a van, just in case I'm needed personally. Also, noise is not a big issue with a char that rolls about 20 dice now (old char) for most Matrix tests and especially not if the meet is only talking to the Mr. Johnsen.
RE: Stealing decks - My GM simply ruled that you cannot use someone else's deck as it's [/wave of hands] attuned to them. I was totally fine with that.
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RE: Not going to meets with a Decker - I'm somewhere close by in a van, just in case I'm needed personally. Also, noise is not a big issue with a char that rolls about 20 dice now (old char) for most Matrix tests and especially not if the meet is only talking to the Mr. Johnsen.
Still a problem in Matrix-isolated meeting spots, which even come up in some of the published adventures.
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Perhaps it's worthwhile to take a bottom-end deck to meets, just in case you need to do more of a Matrix Search on something you're told than your commlink can help with. If you lose it, you still have your best deck to work with. Even so, it's too expensive to considre a "throw down" -- don't wave it around like a sign that says, "geek me 4 free stuffs". Treat it similarly to how your sammy pal treats their favorite gun (if any), or your mage (hopefully) treats their power foci;
- Keep it hidden when possible
- Don't pull it out unless you're going to use it
- It works just as well under the table
- Cyberlimbs were made for these too
- If the other guy shows his, don't feel obligated to show yours.
Actually, this list applies to pretty much everything you don't want to get kicked in.
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RE: Not going to meets with a Decker - I'm somewhere close by in a van, just in case I'm needed personally. Also, noise is not a big issue with a char that rolls about 20 dice now (old char) for most Matrix tests and especially not if the meet is only talking to the Mr. Johnsen.
Still a problem in Matrix-isolated meeting spots, which even come up in some of the published adventures.
Yes, of course. I was not stating that this should be the "Golden rule you shall never disobey!" but as the default. As anyone who plays Shadowrun knows, you have to adapt.
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Trouble is, you don't always know that's the meeting you're going into - besides, there's too many ways to defeat your attempts to listen in.
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Again, this is the normal procedure for the standard meet in my RP group where my character is participating in VR, not snooping or listening in.
If meetings with the Johnsen are much more tense and restricted and dangerous in other groups, you certainly have to adapt.