Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Furious Trope on <05-09-14/1559:03>
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So, I've been playing SR since SR3 and never really got the appeal of Skillwires/jacks/softs.
Maybe I'm just being dense. What are some cool things to do with them?
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In previous editions, I was a huge fan of KnowSofts, but Skillwires never quite did it for me. I was in a group with a rigger who used Skillwires for the less common types of vehicles/weapons out there just in case the opportunity arose. This was back when things like hovercraft, vectored thrust, and sailboat were all separate skills.
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Skillwires seem to be more for acquiring skills you don't want to spend karma on. They kinda come across as inferior to skills.
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In SR4 we had many characters with Move-by-wire Systems (Skillwires were inclusive) and with the Skillwires Expert System from SR4 Augmentations you even got an Edge roll for Skillsoft. Still quite expensive, but an easy way to handle the balance of Karma and Cash expenses for Character Advancement.
In SR5, as Kincaid already stated, their best use - also from my experience - is to have quick access to Knowledge and Language skills. Where the latter come in handy, because the Skill rating of Language skills are the Limit for Social Skill tests now. Although it is arguable if an Edge roll is allowed for Social Skills with inherited Limit from a Skillsoft or not. At least Linguasoft provides you the possiblity to understand many more of the vast amount of different languages spoken around the SR world.
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Skillwires are for the jack of all trades, without a doubt. Even overlooking their limit of 6 (as opposed to how skills go to 12 now) they can't get specializations and you can't use edge. They're good because you can collect a handful of them at a decent rating (4 is usually fine) for skills you may need, but don't want to invest Karma in.
One adventure has the PC's offered a Pilot Aircraft skillsoft to use with hang gliders they're required to use. Another example would be something like Medicine, or Hardware or Mechanic skills, things you don't need to use a lot or be especially good at to get the job done. For a Street Samurai, they would free up their Karma to be spent on improving their strongpoints, such as bringing weapons skills much higher or improving attributes, while they can devote a part of their money into widening their skill set.
In particular, Knowsofts and Linguasofts can be very, very useful. They're cheap, and there's way too many knowledge skills to learn most of them. It's also much faster to buy a Linguasoft to learn, say, Mandarin Chinese for your next job where you're working with/against the Triads.
For Karma-heavy characters like Mages and Technomancers, if you're willing to eat 1 point of Essence cost, you can get Used Rating 4 Skilljack and Skillwires are character gen. This allows you to have a tangible thing to spend nuyen on from then out beyond the few things your archetype normally uses and lets you dump all your karma into your role without needing to spend a few to round out your skill set.
Additionally, if you are a technomancer, a Skilljack (which keep in mind, is where all your skillsofts are running, know- lingua- or active-soft) is a great target for the Machine Sprite's Diagnostics power, as you are without a doubt "using" your skilljack whenever you're using a skillsoft it's running-- With the new skill rating acting as the limit for the teamwork test. With a Rating 4 Skilljack, you can easily have a Level 5 or 6 Machine Sprite get 4 hits to effectively double your 'ware's effectiveness. I like to flavor it as the sprite funneling extra knowledge and experience from the Resonance itself to fill in the gaps in your software.
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I can't wait for MBW to be out in this edition.
Skillwires and activesofts are great for skills you may not need often, but you want to have when you need it. Like Drive/Pilot, particular weapons (i.e. you focus on Automatics, but want to be able to just load a soft when you're stranded and unarmed and find a shotgun). Or niche skills like the Athletics group which rarely come up but can be handy.
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Skillwires are wonderful for skills where you have a high attribute. Agility and Logic cover the majority of skills in Shadowrun, and it's possible to get them very high (8+) at character creation with bioware or cyberware (and possibly Exceptional Attribute). With an 8 in Agility and Logic, you can get 9 dice in any connected skill for a mere 5k nuyen. With used Skillwires 4 (available at character creation) and a 20k expenditure, that's 12 dice, enough to make you an expert. That many dice make glitches rare, and critical glitches almost impossible.
An example of a character built on this concept can be found here (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=12908.msg288499#msg288499).
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I find they work okay for Riggers. I wish they cost less... no one who would want them can afford them.
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"Can you fly that thing?"
"Not yet." Trinity snaps open her phone.
Back in the Real, Tank saw the icon, and smacked the 'receive' button. "Operator."
"Tank, I need a program for a V-212 helicopter."
Moments later: "Let's go."
This is skillwires in a sound bite. I, on the other hand, never really thought it was wise to go balls-to-the-wall that way; after all, all it takes is some glue and a skilltwitcher and you've just become a complete spastic incompetent ...
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Thanks everyone.
Move By Wire was always my exception for this. MBW was always good and the skillwires built in just made it a bit sweeted.
I'm thinking they could also be useful for picking up Exotic weapon skills for the lulz.
Yeah, @JimmyCrisis, I agree. 20k per rating point for both skilljack and skillwires seems a bit excessive. But that's just me.
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Skillwire is a bit expansive (and limited)
But Skilljack (for knowsofts and linguasofts) is actually pretty good on its own.
(the the point it is almost a must have for many face characters that plan to operate on the international scene)
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I found in previous editions, and for that matter it seems in 5th too, is its a GREAT way to get those skills that maybe you don't have the Karma to go around for.
Got a Char with High Attr, High Resources, High Edge (AKA Most Sammies) who has crap for skills?
Add Skill Wires - 3 and walla, pick a few different Activesofts to rotate between as you need them.
Great IMHO for extra skills you couldn't afford at CharGen. Got Pistols/predator at L6/Specialized since you use it most often, but now your in the barrens using a HMG on Gyro Mount - Slot Heavy Weapons-3, walla.
Sure, you can't run them all at once, but its great if you know your going to need something that you don't have on a certain run.
The Higher levels get really expensive but I found L3 to be really affordable for the utility of it.
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"Can you fly that thing?"
"Not yet." Trinity snaps open her phone.
Back in the Real, Tank saw the icon, and smacked the 'receive' button. "Operator."
"Tank, I need a program for a V-212 helicopter."
Moments later: "Let's go."
This is skillwires in a sound bite.
This, exactly, I was thinking of that scene when I wrote my post too.
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It seems like these could be a cool way to work a generalist backup mage AND backup decker for a team in a long term campaign. Start with a decent deck, R2 cerebral boosters, R3 or so skillwire/activesofts. Work up to cerebral boosters R3 for 9 logic and R6 skillwire system and activesofts for the decker skills while you spend your karma on mage stuff. Talk about having options, 15 dice isn't too shabby.
I might have to see how well I can plan that out.
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It seems like these could be a cool way to work a generalist backup mage AND backup decker for a team in a long term campaign. Start with a decent deck, R2 cerebral boosters, R3 or so skillwire/activesofts. Work up to cerebral boosters R3 for 9 logic and R6 skillwire system and activesofts for the decker skills while you spend your karma on mage stuff. Talk about having options, 15 dice isn't too shabby.
I might have to see how well I can plan that out.
I'd love to see what you come up with for that. It's an interesting concept.
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For various reasons, I see it more as GM/Corporation tool than a Shadowrunner one, as most groups are willing to hire experts in an area rather than have a "Swiss Army Knife". Then again, some groups like Technomancers, who are the Decker version of Swiss Army Knives, so take of it what you will.
Just remember that Skillwires are addictive. ;D
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For various reasons, I see it more as GM/Corporation tool than a Shadowrunner one, as most groups are willing to hire experts in an area rather than have a "Swiss Army Knife". Then again, some groups like Technomancers, who are the Decker version of Swiss Army Knives, so take of it what you will.
Right now it seems that in our group only 4 or 5 of the 7 total players ever show up for a run, so having a Swiss Army Knife character is useful.
One guy has run several other games and had little chance to play, but right now his job schedule at this time of year is full and less predictable.
Another guy has some health problems, so he can't always make it.
The others who miss haven't told me what's up with their schedule.
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Always thought of skillwires as a gm's tool than a player one.
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Skill wires are for a niche kind of character. They allow you to 'alter' your character to suit the mission instead of altering the plan to suit the players. You can make a total muscle head and skimp on the skills as he can just buy the chips he needs for a particular mission. I most often used lingua softs and B&E skills on my old 3rd Ed. skillz-guy. Doing a mission on the Amazon... pick up pilot: boat. Need to go in through the roof on the next mission to avoid alarms... pick up some climbing and lockpicks. Hitting up a Horizon research lab in a couple days... pick up a copy of Horizon Security Procedures and know the response times and numbers you will see if you trip an alarm. It's nice to know when/where your enemies are coming from.
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Skill wires are for a niche kind of character.
Irony! You definitely do have to build the character specifically to be making use of what is at base a generalization tool.
Knowsofts are a bigger deal than I think people realize. Like you mentioned with the Security Procedures one, they can offer you specific insight into what your next run will be about. Moreso than any simple Matrix search would get you. Also, with Run & Gun introducing the Small Unit Tactics knowledge skill and it's clear mechanical applications, that's a great thing to have a knowsoft of. Even if someone else already has the skill and is the leader, it allows you to add to their dice pool via teamwork or take over if they're unable to lead.
Though now I'm considering making a houserule for Knowsoft Availability. I did it for Activesofts already; it should be harder to find knowsofts for stuff like Military Technology than Economics.
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I love KnowSofts and LinguiSofts!
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I love KnowSofts and LinguiSofts!
I miss my 2-slot Chipjack so much :(
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Good to know I have been hashing out a ex corp programmer who his corp wanted to save money so they put skill wires in him to be more "useful" if there is a problem. OH did I mention they have a back door to his cyber and he tends to wake up in strange places. Im sure its not an original idea but it could be fun. =0)
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Good to know I have been hashing out a ex corp programmer who his corp wanted to save money so they put skill wires in him to be more "useful" if there is a problem. OH did I mention they have a back door to his cyber and he tends to wake up in strange places. Im sure its not an original idea but it could be fun. =0)
You should consider the possibility of playing a CFD-infected person then. There's some details in Stolen Souls on how to run that kind of situation. Here's a preview though: it ends badly for the originating personality. Still, the struggle can be the focus of an entire campaign.
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OOO that's a good idea I was also gonna give him a BTL problem as well. Hes gonna be based off the Postal Dude from the awful (but great) postal games. He ended up getting cyberware to save his life after a major injury. Sooo yeah reality is already distorted for him so this could be very fun ;D
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They're nice in theory, but I feel they're prohibitively expensive (not the skillwires themselves, which I think are just about right, but the actual activesofts), which greatly cuts down on their usefulness/viability.
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I liked them in 4th, particularly for knowledge and language skills. But in 5th they're quite brutally expensive. I can't see myself affording them on most characters.
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For me, skillwires are a great thing for any non-Awakened, non-emerged character who is looking to play extra roles in the party. Not talking the street sammy, they've got too much on their plate already. But a set of skillwires (plus the appropriate skillsofts) can make a Face's job of infiltrating someplace a piece of cake. And there are personafix chips, which sometimes include skillsofts in them. I wouldn't replace core skills for your character with skillsofts (a Face who uses a Con skillsoft is not a Face), but for some less-generally-useful skills that make all the difference when you need them? Yeah. A skillsoft about parachuting, for instance, would be awesome before your HALO insertion, for instance. If a character primarily uses ranged attacks, and is on a run where they screen for weapons, then an Unarmed Combat skillsoft will make a big difference. So I can definitely see a use for them. The problem is the cost of skillsofts is so high. Honestly, I never used them in 4th unless you used either one of the rental services that allowed you to 'borrow' a skillsoft for a couple hours, or some hacked skillsofts that were a fraction of the price, but degraded over time unless you manually patched them. I also liked using personafixes on some of my characters, especially ones with included skillsofts.
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They're nice in theory, but I feel they're prohibitively expensive (not the skillwires themselves, which I think are just about right, but the actual activesofts), which greatly cuts down on their usefulness/viability.
QFT
I'm actually playing a skillwire based "Street Sam" (went for mostly concept over mechanics) in a PbP over on Dumpshock. Statistically average ork with some basic combat cyber enahncements and skillwires/jack/activesoft. Basically an attempt by a corp to create a mass produced soldier. The costs for new activesoft is pretty excessive, even discounting our table's street index rule. The team decker is actually quite a bit better at shooting stuff, but he's serviceable. His main advantage now is that he makes a good decoy as he looks big and threatening, but has little else to spend Edge on besides dodging attacks, soaking damage, or blitzing since almost none of his skills benefit from it, LOL.
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They're nice in theory, but I feel they're prohibitively expensive (not the skillwires themselves, which I think are just about right, but the actual activesofts), which greatly cuts down on their usefulness/viability.
I agree... Activesofts are terribly costly, especially for a Street Samurai or Decker who will be saving up their money for big purchases. Makes them easier to use for people like the Face.
I houseruled over the rule from 4th edition about pirated software. Based on those rules, it costs 10% of the price, but it's rating decays at a rate of 1 every two months. It can be restored to full rating by either paying 10% of the difference between the two rating's normal prices or by making a Software + Logic roll with an interval of 1 week, and a threshold equal to 2 x the difference of it's current and original rating.
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I really dislike the fact that linguasofts suddenly became incredibly expensive. What used to be an inexpensive way to get access to multiple languages (a sort of babelfish, if you will), is suddenly out of reach of almost everyone in the SR universe.
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Linguasofts only doubled in price from 4th edition. It's a big jump, but I don't know if I'd say it went from "buy them by the bundle" to "nobody can afford one".
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¥30,000 can buy 5 rating-6 linguasofts.
For the same price, I can buy a medium hardened milspec battle armor with helmet.
Something about that is not right.
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¥30,000 can buy 5 rating-6 linguasofts.
For the same price, I can buy a medium hardened milspec battle armor with helmet.
Something about that is not right.
Yeah but that would make you fluent in 5 different languages, not counting your native tongue. That's a huge advantage. Personally, I think the problem is on the armor's side of that equation.
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Ah, but the cost of the software is not the expensive thing, firebug. Note the following differences, emphasis mine.
Linguasoft:
Linguasofts replicate language skills, allowing the user to speak a foreign language as fluently as her native language. Linguasofts may also be used as real-time translation programs. Linguasofts must be accessed with a direct neural link (either a sim module or datajack).
Linguasofts:
Linguasofts replicate language skills, allowing a user to speak a foreign language by automatically translating signals from the speech cortex, although chipped speech can be awkward and stilted—then again, so can anyone speaking a language that’s not their native tongue. Linguasofts must be accessed with a skilljack, which limits how many skillsofts you can use at a time.
In essence (hah!), the 100 and 1000 nuyen cost for a sim module and datajack, respectively, is negligible compared to that of a skilljack, which costs 20k per rating. The rating of the skilljack also limits the rating of the linguasoft, so at a minimum investment of 21k (and 0.1 Essence) you get one language at Rating 1. Running the skilljack wirelessly either allows you to run Rating * 3 number of programs, or Rating * 3 rating programs; this is a little ambiguous.
Even then, to run a Rating 5 linguasoft in SR5 is an absolute minimum investment of 45k (40k (and 0.2 Essence) for a Rating 2 Skilljack with wireless on, + 5k Rating 5 Linguasoft), while in SR4 (as the linguasofts were limited to Rating 5), the same setup cost 2600 (100 for sim module for any commlink you were very likely getting anyway + 2500 for the Rating 5 linguasoft, and no Essence loss). That's a difference of 1730%, a little more than double.
If taking into account that the wireless bonus might not extend to the rating of the programs it can run but instead the number of programs it can, the difference becomes even more excessive. A Rating 5 Skilljack is 100k (and 0.5 Essence), plus the 5k for the linguasoft itself; a stunning 4000% price increase.
And that's not even considering the fact that Social Adepts may not want to take skilljacks because of the Essence loss required by the skilljack; formerly, a simple sim module would do, but now invasive surgery is required.
Consider this line from SR4:
Globalization and the Matrix have also made the world a smaller place, so that borders no longer limit languages. Migrating communities have spread various cultures (both traditional and new) across the planet. The proliferation of linguasofts and translation programs makes it even easier to bridge the communication gap.
Yeah, that's what I have an issue with... :D
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Yeah, 4th removed the 3e knowsoft link (1000¥, 0.1 Essence), and made skillwires dirt cheap at a straight (Rating x 2000¥) - the latter were hideously expensive at (Rating x Memory Size x 500 ¥). While I admit splitting skillwires into the 'active skill' part and the 'knowledge part' seems sensible to me, and I didn't really like 'oh, you just need DNI', the linguasoft + 'knowsoft link' thing was something I liked; requiring 20k + 0.1 essence per level is something that irritates me. At and above level 4, the dedicated computer that the skilljack is becomes actually more detrimental than an entire cyberdeck being implanted into your head.
I would have taken up a tenth of a point, maybe two-tenths, for the skilljack, and left it at that. Then when it came to the skillwires portion, I would have given the first level free of essence, or perhaps the first two levels at 0.1, and after that at the full 0.2/level. Better yet, 1-3 at 0.1/level, 4-6 at 0.2/level above 3. A complete set of skilljack/wires comes in at level 6 at .2 + .3 + .6 = 1.1 Essence.
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¥30,000 can buy 5 rating-6 linguasofts.
For the same price, I can buy a medium hardened milspec battle armor with helmet.
Something about that is not right.
Except the armor will cost you more as ith might not be so available and language software is actually really difficult to produce. At least from today's point of view.
For gaming reasons I would agree, though. I'd rather have the opportunity to overcome language barriers easier, and thus send my group around the world, than put them all in milspec armor.
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Also, we may be able to get pirated software again in the future. We can't get cheap pirated armor.
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Ursus,
The software isn't the issue in SR5; the required skilljack is...
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We can't get cheap pirated armor.
Actually you probably could get cheap pirated armor, but would you want to use cheap pirated armor?
Kuvlard?
PB & Jelly Pacs?
Mole Spec Armor? (Crappy armor but comes with digging claws and night vision built in)
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In Run & Gun, there is "lightly used" armor, which costs less than the new armor.
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Your not kidding about the cost increase.
I didn't even play 4th & I just recently saw the increase from the old 1E.
Wires got a nice break for the higher levels, but yikes, yeah, that Skill Jack got crazy stupid expensive. And now the Datajack can't duplicate the function any more. Sad Panda :(
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Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?
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Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?
We had a party NPC in a 4Ed game that did that.
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If the system and programs are so expensive I really dont get how corps can afford to outfit all of their employees with them, remain cost effective and turn a profit, thats what baffles me.
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Agreed, skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces that accompanies the rules. This is one of those cases where fluff and crunch really doesn't match up.
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With the 5E prices, I can see a corp buying them maybe 100 at a time for a discount and having a few people in each department with the ability to assume various roles to fill gaps in the wageslave roster as needed. Your pinch hitters, as it were.
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Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?
There is a whole Merc unit of Rich kids that do just that.
We'll not lie abou being Wildcats, but basically lack skills & just use awesome levels of skillwires.
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If the system and programs are so expensive I really dont get how corps can afford to outfit all of their employees with them, remain cost effective and turn a profit, thats what baffles me.
Simple: they don't outfit all of them. I am not sure why everybody thinks they are so ubiquitous:
Generally speaking, skillwires are reserved for “disposable” non-citizen employees, typically menial laborers in production facilities or sweat shops. This results from the strong social stigma attached to skillwires, which many citizens view as evidence that an employee is too slow to learn things the “normal” way.
> Skillwires are seen as the crutch of the incompetent, the inept, and the lazy. Having skillwires means you rely on coded skills, instead of developing your own abilities. Since skillwires override muscle control and reflexes, you’re less likely to learn from experience and develop your own talents to any exceptional level.
> Butch
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i think it was the 4e book that gave the impression they should be quite ubiquitous:
Sr4a 330
They are highly favored, however, by corporations interested in cheap labor
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Both skillwires and linguasofts were touted as commonly used in SR4, linguasofts in particular. This is apparently not the case in SR5, seeing as how they now cost an arm and a leg (literally; you can buy cyberlimbs for less...).
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i think it was the 4e book that gave the impression they should be quite ubiquitous:
Yeah, I see your point.
By the way, just to add to the topic of corps turning profit through skillwires: remember that they can deduct the cost of the 'ware from the employees earnings over the course of their lives and they also can pull the 'wires out when they need to install them in "fresh meat". It's a dystopia, after all =)
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Nevermind Shadowrun-specific references, skillwires are pretty much a genre-wide trope and often portrayed as being used by low level unskilled workers.
-k
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Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?
I often use such a character as a NPC helping my players group to overcome some lack in their skill pool...
The rising price in the 5th edition have caused a pair of my players to heavily modify their character ...
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Agreed, skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces that accompanies the rules. This is one of those cases where fluff and crunch really doesn't match up.
This assumes the prices the corps pay are the same prices the runners would pay.
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PeterSmith
My comment assumes no such thing; the major difference between editions is the requirement in 5th for a skilljack; in SR4, a hot-sim modified commlink was enough.
The linguasofts themselves only jumped a little bit in price; the steep entry point in SR5 comes from the now mandatory Essence loss and cost of 20k per rating for the skilljack.
Essentially, if SR5 had kept the requirement of a hotsim modified commlink from SR4, the slight increase (well, double) in cost of the linguasoft itself would have been tolerable. The requirement of the skilljack is what kills linguasofts for Awakened and/or Emerged Face type characters (Essence loss = magic loss, which very often means it won't even be considered), and for a lot of characters who are resource heavy in other respects (street samurai, deckers, riggers).
In short, in the span of 3 years in-game (2072 to 2075), linguasofts went from being "prolific" (in other words, abundant, something most people could afford even on their own), to being completely out of reach for nearly everyone except the corps. That might not be particularly out-of-character for the corps, but it is hugely jarring in terms of game balance.
Adepts with Linguistics are now kings of faces, if you deal with multiple languages. The mere fact that some tables have chosen to entirely handwave language should be an indication that this rule change did not have the intended effect (unless that was the intended effect, in which case why even bother with the whole languages section in the book?).
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Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?
That was pretty much the concept behind Sakura Kunoichi from Street Legends: Home edition who was running tons of 'softs.
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PeterSmith
My comment assumes no such thing [snip]
The linguasofts themselves only jumped a little bit in price; the steep entry point in SR5 comes from the now mandatory Essence loss and cost of 20k per rating for the skilljack.
That's exactly why it's an assumption.
You're assuming corporations pay prices that are themselves raised by retail or blackmarket sellers, can't subsidise their own gear to cover the portion of costs involved in resources and manufacture, and can't make back the money lost on the sales of the gear in use.
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Novocrane
Like I said, I made no reference to corps one way or the other; the topic at hand as far as I'm concerned is the requirement change from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.
This is the ONLY difference as to why the price point is so different between editions, and trying to argue that the corps pay a different price has absolutely no bearing on why the requirement changed from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.
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Novocrane
Like I said, I made no reference to corps one way or the other; the topic at hand as far as I'm concerned is the requirement change from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.
This is the ONLY difference as to why the price point is so different between editions, and trying to argue that the corps pay a different price has absolutely no bearing on why the requirement changed from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.
Agreed, skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces that accompanies the rules. This is one of those cases where fluff and crunch really doesn't match up.
You apparently aren't going to try to disprove the validity of the conjecture presented. While it is unrelated to the switch from commlinks to skilljacks, if you are only going to talk about that switch, perhaps you would prefer avoiding comments that prompt responses on other points.
skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces
This specifically, while not a direct mention of corps, may as well be - mass production is difficult to separate from them, and the "for everyone" thing is generally a "for the wageslaves" thing when you boil it down.
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Fair enough; feel free to continue arguing semantics. I'm out.
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wageslavery While employers reap the benefits of skillware, such as low costs and quick training, chipped employees suffer from detach- ment and a lack of upward mobility. Most chipped workers have little or no pride in their work, a side effect of performing their jobs with skills they do not naturally possess. They perform their jobs virtually on autopilot, with a wage or salary being their only real reward. The lack of personal fulfillment has led to numerous side effects, including widespread depression and high addiction and suicide rates among chipped workers. Additionally, since chipped skills are not learned, advance- ment and upward mobility are limited for chipped workers. Corporations have done away with training programs in favor of skillsofts, but that leaves a worker with no marketable skills once the chip is removed. As a result, most chipped workers are bound to their employer, unable to market themselves to a competitor.[/quote=SR4 Unwired Pg. 194]
This is where I'm getting the sense that much of the corp workforce (AA, or A rank? or even lower?) is skillwired, yet these systems are so espensive, in SR4 you can network skill wires if you're subscribed to a node running them, so I"m thinking a Nexus running one wire to its subscription limit in employees, even then that's like more expensive than modern server licenses for program suites. I'm so confuse.
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This is where I'm getting the sense that much of the corp workforce (AA, or A rank? or even lower?) is skillwired, yet these systems are so espensive, in SR4 you can network skill wires if you're subscribed to a node running them, so I"m thinking a Nexus running one wire to its subscription limit in employees, even then that's like more expensive than modern server licenses for program suites. I'm so confuse.
Compared to the cost of training an employee and the money saved on not paying a competative salary for skilled labor, it's not bad. Consider that the company can artificially inflate the cost of the implant and take it out of the worker's wages - this alone might justify the high price of skillwires and skillsofts. After all, the company wouldn't have the implant removed, it's too problematic. Places like Renraku can manufacture their own skillsofts and skillwires in-house, really only paying parts and labor, which might be as low as 10% of the price.
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Yeah, I can see it making allot more sense that way, I mean after all the books never state the prices corps would/are paying to outfit their drones, just the cheddar it costs a runner in seattle and avail. So in actuality it costs them about as much as a brand new high end computer per employee but without special licenses out on the free market its not something most would have. Just like most office machinery, you arent going to bring your own welding robot or commercial program suite to the table at your interview.
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Don't forget, it's not like the ruthless megacorp has to pay those steep skillwire prices every time they hire a new employee. They need to pay for the skillwires (and skilljack, and skillsoft) once per position. When someone quits, is fired, or dies, they can yank the hardware (which is likely in their contract somewhere) and install it, used, in the next desperate employee to come of age (who doesn't have an "alpha-plus!" tier employment benefits package, or something).
The wires, jack, and softs stay in that office forever, if the corp wants them to. It's just the bodies that come and go.
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Don't forget, it's not like the ruthless megacorp has to pay those steep skillwire prices every time they hire a new employee. They need to pay for the skillwires (and skilljack, and skillsoft) once per position. When someone quits, is fired, or dies, they can yank the hardware (which is likely in their contract somewhere) and install it, used, in the next desperate employee to come of age (who doesn't have an "alpha-plus!" tier employment benefits package, or something).
The wires, jack, and softs stay in that office forever, if the corp wants them to. It's just the bodies that come and go.
Which raises the interesting issue of acting as a potential carrier for CFD as well if the original owner had gotten infected and all their cyber therof..
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Probably not CFD, but I suppose it's possible; at this point, almost any object could be a CFD carrier.
The wires, jack, and softs stay in that office forever, if the corp wants them to. It's just the bodies that come and go.
How delightfully dystopian.
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Even more dystopian: forcing the employee to finance the 'ware with a staggering loan agreement or face losing his job, working him to the bone, then when he's died in an 'accident', repossessing the 'ware for use in the next guy.
:)
-k
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Even more dystopian: forcing the employee to finance the 'ware with a staggering loan agreement or face losing his job, working him to the bone, then when he's died in an 'accident', repossessing the 'ware for use in the next guy.
:)
-k
Even more dystopian, the family of the deceased still has to keep making payments on that same loan for the skillwire even while the corp is ripping it out of the recently departed and prepping it for the next sucker and his own loan. It's the gift that keeps on giving (to accounting)
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Hire a SINless worker under a fake national SIN, provide them food, shelter, and skillwires under a contractual work agreement. Possibly include a minor stipend for the duration of the job, but always a final payment at the end of the contract, with the possibility of renewal and limited corporate citizenship.
Before the contract expires, "find" their SIN invalid and declare them guilty of impersonating a SINner. Repossess everything including the skillwires, then have them executed. Repeat.
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Hire a SINless worker under a fake national SIN, provide them food, shelter, and skillwires under a contractual work agreement. Possibly include a minor stipend for the duration of the job, but always a final payment at the end of the contract, with the possibility of renewal and limited corporate citizenship.
Before the contract expires, "find" their SIN invalid and declare them guilty of impersonating a SINner. Repossess everything including the skillwires, then have them executed. Repeat.
I dunno. Sounds pretty expensive. Are you sure about the food, shelter and stipend?
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The first two, at least, are things you're going to be making allowances for with any other worker. Which isn't to say you can't scrape rock bottom on costs and keep digging for cheaper solutions - you only care about the short term effects.
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Whooooosh.
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What's that, Lassie? Over his head and fell down a well?
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A month has not passed so this is not necroing... Right?
There was a lot of discussion about corps using skillsofts but nobody mentioned something I remember hearing about some years back... Skillwires as a security measure.
This isn't exactly how it works, of course, but imagine a hall full of droning wageslaves, let's say... Fifty. Let's say that this is a high-profile job so Runners come in, fire a gun in the air and shout Everyone Down or such. Maybe not runners, could be robbers or anyone else too. So what happens? All the wageslaves dive down to the floor and whimper and shiver and pray for security...
...Until that red button is pushed, some drugs are dispensed from a one-use container inside their body or the skillwires are a bit more invading than what the brochure said and BOOM, the runners are faced with 50 trained martial artists. Or, given the cost of guns in SR, they could suddenly be trained in using that pistol/taser that every employee has in his desk locker. And they aren't even really bad people, just wageslaves. That'll surprise the players and give them a bit of a dilemma to solve.
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... you are a mean, cruel, nasty GM. I like that; I like it a lot. And I'd probably make it martial arts - since the employee will always have their body, and a handy taser/firearm is just a PO'd employee waiting to happen.
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Just because theyre now trained combatants doesnt meant theyre willing to engage in a fight. After all, they arent exactly paid for this. Youd need some sort of way to compel them into action. I suppose you could inject them all with drugs, like was said, but Id think anything that would make them sufficiently aggressive to attack people would make them just as likely to butcher eachother as it would any intruders. Not to mention the property damage unleashed by a horde of now berserk people who were probably quite unhappy with their corp life as it was.
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Maybe Im just over thinking it.
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Yeah, that might be better represented by persona-fix chips tbh
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Extensive social programming ("Our corp good! Other corps bad! Shadowrunners evil! Corpsec Justice!"), and then either having something extra added along with the skillwires or the aforementioned drug dispensed. This can easily be done with a GM fiat but shouldn't be anything common, I think.
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Bah, don't bother directing them. It needs to be an insane wuxia smackdown with a horde of office employees going nuts. Though sadly enough, no nun-chuck telephones, since wired phones don't really exist in the professional workplace anymore... Or, if you like your initial idea... Give the decker or technomancer a chance to find out about this security measure, and have them hack it and pre-activate it! That's one hell of a diversion, if the goal isn't in that room/part of the building.
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b/c sometimes you need to land a plane, and without Skillwires you don't know how.
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Extensive social programming ("Our corp good! Other corps bad! Shadowrunners evil! Corpsec Justice!"), and then either having something extra added along with the skillwires or the aforementioned drug dispensed. This can easily be done with a GM fiat but shouldn't be anything common, I think.
Not to mention just a plain ol' five grand bonus for whoever's registered bullets are found in the intruders' bodies.