Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Elektrycerze3 on <05-21-14/0659:13>
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Hoi!
Cyberdecks and datajacks come with a meter of built-in retractable microfilament data cable, or you can always buy a cable for about five nuyen per meter<...>
So, for 500 nuyen a decker at my table bought a 100m data cable.
Now his character hands one end of the cable to the B&E specialist, who then establishes a direct connection for the decker by plugging it into devices 100m away.
I love my players for their ingenuity =)
Now, aside from the obvious challenges, like guards finding the cable, it seems to be an interesting way for any decker to go about hacking stuff.
So what are your thoughts on that? Is it cheesy? What if the cable is under Invisibility spell? Is it ok? Then why doesn't every decker carry a cable drum?
Thanks in advance.
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100m of cable sounds like a disaster to carry, roll up again, it can get noticed (though would be hard to find if you hide it properly), etc. Invisibility wouldn't work, by the way, since it's simply too long to cover.
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100m of cable sounds like a disaster to carry, roll up again, it can get noticed (though would be hard to find if you hide it properly), etc.
Well, I have no experience handling anything even remotely similar. I guess you are right.
But what would be the ways for me as a GM to go about it? Someone seeing the cable or tripping over it is believable once or twice.
Invisibility wouldn't work, by the way, since it's simply too long to cover.
Could you please give me a reference? I am sure you're right, but I have to show something to my players.
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It's a claim made in http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=15846.msg278486#msg278486 which doesn't have a full explicit base. It's based on how an Area Spell is limited in Force in radius, the logic is then that a single-target spell wouldn't be able to cover more than an Area spell, so you wouldn't be able to cover an object exceeding in size what an Area spell of the same Force would cover.
I'd have to check Vehicle Mask to see if anything in there might support this though... Okay, Vehicle Mask simplifies it to Body/2 instead, which is usually less but may be more than Forcex2 Radius (for massive vehicles that is.)
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The logistical concerns would probably outweigh the benefits in most situations, but I'd look into having a small (micro would be too small) drone carry a spool of cable through the cavity of a dropped ceiling. Your B&E specialist would have to be one the other end of things to plug the cable in, and the drone would almost certainly need to be driven by something other than its Pilot rating, but that might work.
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Let's assume this cable is the diameter of a today's normal fibre-optics cable and weighs the same as they do in SR5, than 100 meters should come at about 1,2 kg.
You would need a small drone, not a micro-drone, to carry the cable alone. The spool might total the package at 2 kg.
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Microfilament cables are probably far lighter.
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it's all fair game, but i don't think they really broke something.
consider the following:
If the device is not slaved to a security host then it would be easy to hack directly from the grid anyway (no need for a cable to do that)
If the device is wireless OFF then it is not slaved to a host (hosts are matrix only). In this case all your B&E expert need to do is to attach a wireless data tap to cable device is connected to. then the decker hack it wireless from the grid; should be easy enough since it is not slaved to a host. (no need for a cable that run all the way from the cyberdeck to do that)
...and if it is a wireless device slaved to a host then you only need to make the physical connection to ONE device (go for a security device that is a lot easier to access, a chain is not stronger than it's weakest link and all that...). Once you got a physical connection to ONE device you can use that as a backdoor to enter the host. then you have a direct connection to ALL slaved devices from within the host (no matter where in the world they are physically located - no cables needed for this)
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I'd just make one of the patrolling guards trip over the cable and unplug it while the decker's jacked in. Boom. Dumpshock, the guards are alerted, etc.
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If they put the cable across a patrolled path, there is no reason for guards not to notice. And maybe unplug it out of curiosity.
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I don't think that would be a cause of dump shock, unless the decker got unplugged from his deck.
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When you’re disconnected from the Matrix while in VR without gracefully switching to AR first, you suffer a nasty shock as your sim module kicks out. This happens to hackers so often it has its own name: dumpshock.
I think having the connecting line cut on you would still qualify for dumpshock as you are snapped back to reality since we are presuming he has no other access to the matrix at that time.
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I did this in 4th one time with...either a hacker or a technomancer.
Had a sneaky buddy get a small drone to an air vent on a building with anti-wireless paint inside. Since I would have lost the drone's signal, it was attached to a long fiberoptic cable descending and plugged into a transmitter that I had access to wirelessly. I was near-site in a car. Sent my signal from my commlink to the transmitter, through the wire and into the drone inside the house, letting me control it and scan inside for nodes and the people/paydata we needed.
Was pretty fun but I felt bad for all the meatspace people while I was doing it. ;D
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When you’re disconnected from the Matrix while in VR without gracefully switching to AR first, you suffer a nasty shock as your sim module kicks out. This happens to hackers so often it has its own name: dumpshock.
I think having the connecting line cut on you would still qualify for dumpshock as you are snapped back to reality since we are presuming he has no other access to the matrix at that time.
you might or might not be correct
however i just want to point out that
you form your persona on the cyberdeck and you are not jumped into the device
in SR5 you don't actually "enter" the "node" you are trying to hack.
by the book you would suffer dumpshock if you were jumped into the device when the plug was pulled
or if the device is destroyed while you were jumped in
or if someone pull your cable between your datajack and your cyberdeck (or your control rig and your vehicle)
or if someone reboot, destroy or brick your cyberdeck (or whatever device you used to form your persona)
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Michael Chandra,
Thank you for the reference. I see the point made in that topic. I'll remember that for my games.
Xenon,
You definitely helped me reassure myself that he doesn't break anything. Thanks. I had that gut feeling that something might be wrong.
Dumpshock sounds fun, but sadly the rules don't support that cause of dumpshock explicitly...
The problem that remains is that I don't understand the logistical problems involved... The thing is light, a drum with a motor can draw in the cable itself. Guards noticing the cable can't work every time: that might be considered a dick move on my part if I bust the players that way every time.
I want to add some interesting and fun complications to the cable-users, but my lack of real-life knowledge on the matter makes this difficult.
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I wouldn't consider it a dick move for guards to spot the cable if they're running hundreds of feet of it through a building with patrols. Maybe make it be time-based, when they run that cable through make a mental note like "ok, they have roughly 9 minutes before the next patrol comes through here." A little more mental book keeping, but they could use the tactic if they are fast while still having a limit on their ability to exploit this trick.
I mean, really, without some serious effort and cleverness in hiding it, people who spend 8+ hours a day roaming the halls of a building and looking for signs of intrusion WILL notice immediately when a cable that doesn't belong there is running through the hall. You are in no way a dick because they are using a highly noticeable tactic.
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if the plan is to just use normal corridors then the decker could walk there himself.
i guess the plan is for the b&e expert to use service ducks, ventilation systems, elevator shafts etc...
also, should probably use some sort of stealth rope with an embedded microfilament cable so you can dispose of the whole rope/wire within seconds with the use a of a catalyst stick once the decker get his mark on the device (and with it a mark on the host).
the b&e expert might also want to consider getting a low grade deck and some skill in hacking. it doesn't take a big investment in hardware, skills or attributes to beat an opposed test of 4 dice (which most devices defend with when you bypass host ratings). that way the b&e expert can do her primary trade but at the same time hack non slaved devices out on the grid, making physical connections to otherwise hard to reach devices and of course direct connections from within the host. perfect for controlling elevators, security cameras, sensors, alarms, doors...
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The players came up with a good idea. I wouldn't look to punish them too much for it. The same way, the B&E specialist could have dragged an optical cable for the mage with mage goggles through the vents, allowing the mage to sling spells through it.
In essence, the B&E specialist brought a mage and decker with him. You also have to consider that the B&E specialist still has to succeed all their rolls to not get detected and being 100m away in a big building still might prove an unsafe spot for the decker and mage. Overall, it's clever use in a sort-of Mission Impossible kind of way. Kudos to the players!
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Hoi!
Cyberdecks and datajacks come with a meter of built-in retractable microfilament data cable, or you can always buy a cable for about five nuyen per meter<...>
So, for 500 nuyen a decker at my table bought a 100m data cable.
Now his character hands one end of the cable to the B&E specialist, who then establishes a direct connection for the decker by plugging it into devices 100m away.
I love my players for their ingenuity =)
Now, aside from the obvious challenges, like guards finding the cable, it seems to be an interesting way for any decker to go about hacking stuff.
So what are your thoughts on that? Is it cheesy? What if the cable is under Invisibility spell? Is it ok? Then why doesn't every decker carry a cable drum?
Thanks in advance.
I had a player have their character mention this during a planning session, and their employer, who wanted to be included in the planning, turned to them and basically said something along the lines of "Excuse me? I'm sorry, if you're that afraid to go in and do the job I am paying for, perhaps I should seek a more professional team"...
Not even counting the logistics, the impression of this, if it gets around, is of a team so afraid to get their hands dirty, that they have to stay safely locked in their armored car 100m away.. kick the babies to the curb, and hire some real Runners.
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I had a player have their character mention this during a planning session, and their employer, who wanted to be included in the planning, turned to them and basically said something along the lines of "Excuse me? I'm sorry, if you're that afraid to go in and do the job I am paying for, perhaps I should seek a more professional team"...
Not even counting the logistics, the impression of this, if it gets around, is of a team so afraid to get their hands dirty, that they have to stay safely locked in their armored car 100m away.. kick the babies to the curb, and hire some real Runners.
It depends, I would think, on the style of the game. PM? Sure, yeah, they're wimpy babies. BT? "Oh. That's kind of clever."
I have to admit, I would have turned to look at the Johnson and waited for a minute, then stated very precisely, "You are paying us for results. You are not paying us enough for you to micromanage us or nitpick our technique. You are definitely not paying us enough to put our lives in danger if there is an intelligent way around it. If you desire that your team walk into a situation that, due to the lack of one individual's skill at quiet movement, may easily become a high-threat situation, then yes, go find yourself another team. Good luck."
And if he left, I would have moved fast and gotten the information he wanted - and wiped the rest of it from the systems, and then had someone stick around (sneakily!!) to wait for the entire other team to get into the place before calling in an anonymous tip to the corporation security. And then call up the Johnson and tell him that the price for the data has tripled.
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As for concealing the cable, thought it might be expensive, I have two words for you: Ruthenium Polymers. :D
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From a practical standpoint.. back when I was a kid, living at mom's house, my room was out in the garage. I used to have to take about a 40m phone cable from my room, across the backyard, into the house, and into the phone jack there. It worked most of the time, but would fail if doors closed on the wire too hard, people would trip over it, it was very easy for someone to see it and just yank it.
I would imagine most secure facilities have doors that close automatically, unless prevented somehow, and each time that happens, it might have a good chance at just severing the cable, if not pinching it to similar effect. Ventilation systems would probably have inconvenient fans to navigate, or filter grates, or even scanners strategically placed to detect and neutralize drones just on principle of keeping competition down from fellow employees.
And then beyond all that. there's the time involved. Sure, if someone on the team is dragging it along, then it takes no more time than it takes the rest of the team, but logistically, trying to have a micro drone lug a bunch of cable behind it through the vent systems (which most cases probably won't take a direct path) to their target.. again, navigating any fans, filters, etc, might just take too long.
In my case above, the group was on a rather short window of opportunity, and they knew it. They had a specific time on a specific day in which to initiate the run, so coincide with a simultaneous run at a different facility. If you aren't familiar with the Silver Angel module from SR1, that was it. So, the likelihood of sneaking in first if the Johnson left was slim, unless they went in at a different time, which would have jeopardized the other Run, which would have made powerful enemies. It would have been fun to deal with, as a GM, had they gone that route.
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speaking as someone who deals with all sorts of cable for a living:
100 meters of cable really isn't that long. Sure it sounds longs, but consider this; it has to be laid in a line! So just how is that B&E guy getting to the device? a second story window? That's 10 meters just to the window. Down the corridor? that 5 to 15 meters. up some stairs to the next level? 5 more meters... right there is 20 to 45 meters used up...
Everyone mentions air vents... but have you ACTUALLY seen an air vent in a commercial building? they made from 1-3 mm thick TIN!! and they make a bunch of noise as they flex with the weight of anything in them (they move AIR!! nothing more) and are usually held up with 1 1/4" 20 thread count screws mounted into the concrete... not exactly a load bearing support for a metahuman.... Yes, the movies have people crawling through them all the time... but yea... that is a movie.
If the building is over 20,000 square feet, many of those vents are going to be hooked up to what is called a "blower" which is usually a fan blade system the same size as the vent, usually run by a 5-15 HP motor.... more then strong enough to shred your hand/head/arm/leg is you stuck it into the fan.... and more then strong enough to shred a 2mm thick cable.
Now is it viable for them to pack a 100m of fiber optic cable? For sure! Heck, I can pack 2 or 3 KILOMETERS of cable (and this is the armored, jacketed industrial stuff!) without much planning or discomfort. But it is going to be noticeable for security, and it is going to lead them right back to both the decker and the B&E guy just as fast and as easily...
If you want a visual example, go buy a roll of string from Wal-mart, then run it from the street into a room in your house by way of a window or something, see just how far you get with it...
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Speaking from personal experience, quite a few of those air vents can hold a human weighing 150 pounds. You can't move around in it without making nearly as much noise as setting off explosives every three inches, but they can support it.
Also speaking from personal experience, it's extremely claustrophobic and, unlike the movies, typically pitch black for most of the distance. And, some systems get narrower in places, which means you can get stuck.
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...speaking from personal experience...
:o
edit: SR is more like Hollywood-Realistic than Real-Life-Realistic. Players what come up with ideas like this should be supported IMO. Don't let boring stuff like Real-Life stop what would make an excellent SR scene. Just play this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYhNHhxN0A)song and you are good to go ;)
And as i said earlier, it isn't that abusive to begin with since a decker might just as well just walk up to a slaved device (another slaved device, much easier to physically reach - in some cases it doesn't even have to be on premises) and get a mark on the host from there and then reach the hard-to-get-device by accessing it directly from the host.
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It's a long story involving an idiot, a kitten, and being on the losing side of drawn straws.
Edit: To add to this, why can't a drone be the one to take the data cable through the air ducts? They are small enough to fit, and the flying ones wouldn't make much noise. Just equip them with something to plug the cable in with and send them through.
And that was suggested earlier in the thread. Which means I have nothing further to contribute.
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What the scared Technomancer ended up eventually doing in my game, was Submersing, Taking the Control Rig equivalent Echo, and then just having his microdrone carried by someone to the plug in question. No wires, still tries to keep his arse safely out of combat situations, but conveniently enough, isolated from the rest of the group for those times when he will be traced back to his location. Once the group gets to the plug in question, they just use the drone's plug to plug into the system he is trying to access.