Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Booze on <05-28-14/0640:46>
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Yes, yes... this idea appreared in few other topics of mine.
So: the GM asked the players to optimalize thair PC as much as possible. Oh, and he allowed the prime runners caracter creation.
My idea is to use the Acrobatic Defender quality and high Gymnastic, so making such dicepool is real. Alwso rising inherent limit is a important. So, physical limit 10 is more than ACC of best sniper rifle, dice pool 40 will make it possible to buy 10 hits, so this will make the character untouchable.
Ok, so lets think about adept. Dice pool: 5 REA, 5 INT, 6 Gym, 2 Spec, 2 Natural Athlete, 2 Mentor Spirit [Cat], 3 Imp. Abbility [Gym], 6 Combat sense, for now it is 31. Could rise REA and INT... but something else is needed: Icreased potential, to rise the physical limit
Than came the idea: Mystic Adept,... With the same thing, But Extending it with some spells: combat sense* increase attribute [REA & INT] and inc. Reaflexes*. The last one will not rise the Def dice pool itself, but will release some power points, as such adept will not need tu use his power to boost Ini.
*and it is easy to sustain those two spells using reagents or edge, with some low force sustaining focus, or focused concentration.
The last Idea, is to make it all without any magical boosts: 8 REA, 6 INT, 6 Gym, 2 Spec, 3 Syntcardium, 1 Reflex Recorder [Gym], 2 Natural Athlete that is 28. Is simply a fair deal for me,... On avrage those 9 hits will do the job, right?
Oh, wait! Taking Magic D to use up 2 essence for bionics, and rebuy it with carma, to use those PP for combat sense, Imp. Potential, and so on. Oh, the option of using weapon focus is prop too.
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*shakes head*
Shine on, you crazy diamond...
Also, you can dodge all you like, but you can't escape gas, and mind control spells would make you a menace to your team mates who wouldn't be able to pacify you. There is such a thing as too much.
I also wouldn't allow you to buy hits in a combat situation; this is entirely up to the GM. 40 dice gets you 13.33 hits (mathematical average, 28 dice gets you 9.33 hits (again, mathematical average), but I'd make you roll them every single time.
All I can say is that this is not my type of character. Interesting as a mental "just how far can I push it" exercise, but that's about it for me.
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Overcast Force 12 Manabolt... with Edge...
A new character can easily have 15 dice to throw at you vs. your (probably) low Willpower. Net hits for physical damage. Sure, I might kill myself, too... but just to see the look on your face when playing a character like that. Heh.
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The Force doesn't really matter for Direct spells, only net hits, so that Manabolt could be cast with minimal Force (and thus minimal Drain) if you're Edging it.
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Force 6 Control Actions with Edge... Resisted with Logic + Willpower - 6. And Bob's your uncle...
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Overcast Force 12 Manabolt... with Edge...
A new character can easily have 15 dice to throw at you vs. your (probably) low Willpower. Net hits for physical damage. Sure, I might kill myself, too... but just to see the look on your face when playing a character like that. Heh.
Yeah... In 5th you'd just kill yourself and only do like three damage going for that. ZeConster's got the right idea.
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Yes, yes... this idea appreared in few other topics of mine.
So: the GM asked the players to optimalize thair PC as much as possible. Oh, and he allowed the prime runners caracter creation.
My idea is to use the Acrobatic Defender quality and high Gymnastic, so making such dicepool is real. Alwso rising inherent limit is a important. So, physical limit 10 is more than ACC of best sniper rifle, dice pool 40 will make it possible to buy 10 hits, so this will make the character untouchable.
Ok, so lets think about adept. Dice pool: 5 REA, 5 INT, 6 Gym, 2 Spec, 2 Natural Athlete, 2 Mentor Spirit [Cat], 3 Imp. Abbility [Gym], 6 Combat sense, for now it is 31. Could rise REA and INT... but something else is needed: Icreased potential, to rise the physical limit
Than came the idea: Mystic Adept,... With the same thing, But Extending it with some spells: combat sense* increase attribute [REA & INT] and inc. Reaflexes*. The last one will not rise the Def dice pool itself, but will release some power points, as such adept will not need tu use his power to boost Ini.
*and it is easy to sustain those two spells using reagents or edge, with some low force sustaining focus, or focused concentration.
The last Idea, is to make it all without any magical boosts: 8 REA, 6 INT, 6 Gym, 2 Spec, 3 Syntcardium, 1 Reflex Recorder [Gym], 2 Natural Athlete that is 28. Is simply a fair deal for me,... On avrage those 9 hits will do the job, right?
Oh, wait! Taking Magic D to use up 2 essence for bionics, and rebuy it with carma, to use those PP for combat sense, Imp. Potential, and so on. Oh, the option of using weapon focus is prop too.
Adept route:
With Improved potential you'd need a physical limit of 9, where you need 17 points to your attributes, with STR double dipping. So it seems, that A priority is fixed for attributes (8 already spent for REA+INT), which means that even if you'd put a 6 in STR and a 5 in BOD, your Physical Limit would only be 8 and 17 out of 24 attribute points would already be spent. But surely you'd rather put that 6 in AGI, reducing your Physical Limit to 7 and leavin only 3 attribute points for three attributes.
But 16 of your starting karma could go towards Indomitable, fixing your limit problem for you.
What would be left for you?
You spent 16 (Indomitable) + 7 (Natural Athlete) + 5 (Mentor Spirit) = 28 Karma of 35 for PQ. So only 7 left for other things ...
I assume further on MAG 6, so 6 PP
Combat Sense eats 3PP, IA (Gym) eats 1.5 PP and Improved Potential would leave one meager PP.
Which btw. you seem to have forgotten with your MA example does not include any initiative boosters ...
So yeah, I don't see that this character could be a viable threat in combat with so many resources going into defense.
Your MA needs a higher priority for his Magic, so will be able to provide even less assistance to his team, since more resources are also needed.
You can't reliably expect to run around with 2-4 active spells. Casting them will take time.
You need a good chunk of your starting karma for the PP.
So no, even less viable than the adept, because of action economy and assumptions, that can't be met consistantly.
Not enough experience to comment on the cybered example.
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqAM7EX8n0l9dHU1bDZkY25ldDZVTFFWc2tLVG56VlE&usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqAM7EX8n0l9dHU1bDZkY25ldDZVTFFWc2tLVG56VlE&usp=sharing)
Ok, this is not the most optimal build, but it have some sense. Like full defence dicepool of 28 puls 3 from spell on avrage. And phisical limit 10. All the rest, is just fun to play. As it supose to be a bhuddist Wudang Monk,... etc.
Yes, i know there is no such tradition in 5ed like bhuddist [they resist drain on WIL+INT]. And he suposed to be a martial artist, rhigt? So he will learn it later, and maybe will just use edge for Iaijutsu.
EDIT: Remember it is on prime runners rules
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If you're optimising, perhaps it might be better to stick to one of the attribute based qualities? You loose a few dice from your maximum pool (3 dice, to be specific, assuming you can stick a R4 Muscle Toner in there) but avoid having to muck about with limits and it'll also boost other dice pools.
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Not familiar what Acrobatic Defender is. is it a run n gun quality that let you increase your defense pool against ranged attacks...?
sacrifice 10 initiative score the first time anyone attack you in a combat turn
- this let you add your full willpower rating to all your defense tests (including but not limited to ranged attacks) the entire combat turn
(but you are normally not allowed to take a defense test against aoe attacks like explosions, gas or LoS (A) spells... the only spells you can take a defense test against are indirect combat spells).
a limit of 10 is not the Limit (with a capital L). A sniper can add accuracy or dice pools by the Take Aim (or accuracy and dice pool at the same time if he use a smartgun system) up to his willpower / 2 (round up). smartgun system (or laser sight) also increase accuracy just by having it (even if you don't use it wireless). sniper adepts can also increase the accuracy with enhanced accuracy.
pretty sure you can't buy hits to avoid being hit....
snipers can also take a shot at you while you are unaware, but adepts with at least one level of combat sense get to take a perception test (spiderman with his spider sense, electra with her kimagure etc.) so you will be covered there as long as you have really good perception.
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Acrobatit defender alows you tu use gymnastics instead of will for full defence.
Best sniper rifle has 9 acc including bonus from sartlink, and the adept power can rise it qith only one poimt. But you are right with aiming, as it is hard to find sniper with will 6 it is really hard to get such score of acc
Yeah, the buli is ba serii cally by ild on combat sense
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Acrobatit defender alows you tu use gymnastics instead of will for full defence.
Best sniper rifle has 9 acc including bonus from sartlink, and the adept power can rise it qith only one poimt. But you are right with aiming, as it is hard to find sniper with will 6 it is really hard to get such score of acc
Yeah, the buli is ba serii cally by ild on combat sense
Hey Booze, maybe you need to lay off the booze :D
Sorry, but that post was so full of grammatical murder that I just had to...
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My idea is to use the Acrobatic Defender quality and high Gymnastic, so making such dicepool is real. Alwso rising inherent limit is a important. So, physical limit 10 is more than ACC of best sniper rifle, dice pool 40 will make it possible to buy 10 hits, so this will make the character untouchable.
Ok, so lets think about adept. Dice pool: 5 REA, 5 INT, 6 Gym, 2 Spec, 2 Natural Athlete, 2 Mentor Spirit [Cat], 3 Imp. Abbility [Gym], 6 Combat sense, for now it is 31. Could rise REA and INT... but something else is needed: Icreased potential, to rise the physical limit
In regards to those 15 Dice for Gymnastics.
I don't see where those help you dodge bullets anywhere.
Dodging only works for MELEE defense. Pg 188-191.
Please let me know if I'm reading that wrong, but the rule book seems pretty clear.
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Well, for a starting character, you could do a Physical Adept and focus on Agility instead of Gymnastics:
Elf
7 AGL, 5 REA, 5 INT
Improved Reflexes 3
Combat Sense 5
Agile Defender
Just with the above, that's 18 base Defense dice, or 25 dice when using Agile Defender. Because you're not using Gymnastics, the limit doesn't apply, and you can get Agility above 10 with some effort.
In addition to the above, you can add one or more of the following:
Exceptional Attribute (Reaction, Intuition, or Magic)
Initiation - Extra Power Point (to raise Combat Sense and/or Improved Agility)
Mentor Spirit
Agility Boost
Muscle Toner (drops Essence and Magic by 1, but adds up to 4 to Agility)
Stat increase (Reaction and/or Intuition from 5 to 6)
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqAM7EX8n0l9dHU1bDZkY25ldDZVTFFWc2tLVG56VlE&usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqAM7EX8n0l9dHU1bDZkY25ldDZVTFFWc2tLVG56VlE&usp=sharing)
Ok, this is not the most optimal build, but it have some sense. Like full defence dicepool of 28 puls 3 from spell on avrage. And phisical limit 10. All the rest, is just fun to play. As it supose to be a bhuddist Wudang Monk,... etc.
Yes, i know there is no such tradition in 5ed like bhuddist [they resist drain on WIL+INT]. And he suposed to be a martial artist, rhigt? So he will learn it later, and maybe will just use edge for Iaijutsu.
EDIT: Remember it is on prime runners rules
Sorry, but your physical limit is 9, since you can't take Improved Potential more than once for the same Limit.
Your perception is very low, so getting surprised might become a problem. You want to be able to react, your BOD is too low.
You risk focus addiction with 2xF4, 1xF3 and 2xF1.
You have a Suzuki Mirage, a very expensive suit of armor and a street lifestyle? Sounds risky ...
Kick Analyze Device for Manabolt/Stunbolt and spend those useless points from Astral Combat for Perception.
Get Heal! Seriously, with only 4 dice to recover from physical injuries, you might run into situations, where you need some help to heal damage, that you can't recover from. Recovery is an extended test, now.
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dice pool 40 will make it possible to buy 10 hits
Buying hits doesn't work like that. You can't freaking buy hits for combat.
Seriously, why is it that people running this stuff up forget about important things like that?
In any case, you're still screwed against grenades and area spells, but more importantly, what the hell else can you do? A character who's just really good at dodging is just dead weight.
In regards to those 15 Dice for Gymnastics.
I don't see where those help you dodge bullets anywhere.
Dodging only works for MELEE defense. Pg 188-191.
Please let me know if I'm reading that wrong, but the rule book seems pretty clear.
There's a quality in Run & Gun that lets you sub in Gymnastics for Willpower in Full Defense.
@Lucean: People really need to realize that the whole "Manabolt/Stunbolt is better than Banishing/Astral Combat" thing straight up died in the edition switch.
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@Lucean: People really need to realize that the whole "Manabolt/Stunbolt is better than Banishing/Astral Combat" thing straight up died in the edition switch.
Really?
So this character does not even have Astral Perception, so would need to initiate for a PP, to even use this skill, while the spell could be applied in other situations.
Even if Astral Perception is bought, getting from his 8 dice to 13 dice in Astral Combat, needs 2 simple actions (switching perception and activating focus), while he could recklessly manabolt/stunbolt the target otherwise. Remember, this character can't project, so will always have access to reagents to cast low force high limit spells.
The defense of a spirit against Astral Combat is 2xF, the defense against the spells is just F, with no Guardians and Plant spirits being released yet. So please forgive me, if I missed the funeral.
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Astral Combat has something that direct spells never get: Base damage (and given that said base damage is notably higher in SR5 than in SR4...)
That said, I may have jumped on a little early, mistaking your comment for the memetic bad advice that's been an issue for a bit.
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The problem is to fit the skill points in. If you're a spellslinger, well it's just what you're already good at.
Astral Combat depends also a lot on your build with special emphasis on tradition. So hermetics have one more argument to refrain from using Astral Combat.
With Banishing I don't like the uncontrollable drain, but again I often find it hard to incorporate one more skill, and given that my one attempt at a caster wouldn't use weapons, I'd miss out on a DP-component that could define success or failure.