Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Poindexter on <06-02-14/2308:08>
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if not, would this be a bad houserule?
why or why not?
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Yes, and yes. Run & Gun has the rules you're looking for.
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PAGE 86!!! YES! i been LOOKING for that!!!
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You're welcome ;)
I'm not sure I would allow a gas mask AND a respirator to be built into the ballistic mask, as they seem kind of overlapping, but it's not too far out to think that the respirator filters could simply be closed completely and the internal air supply (heh, Superstar!) turned on to switch functionality from respirator to gas mask. But, this would be up to GM as far as I'm concerned.
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On a related note ... how much does the internal air tank cost for armour? Is it as much as the cyberware?
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That is an excellent question, Novocrane. I'd go with the cyberware cost.
No other book lists the cost of a plain air tanks. Lots of equipment comes with it, but you can't just buy an air tank according to the book.
The reason I'd go with the cost of the cyberware is because you're effectively integrating a tank into a suit of armor; it's more than just strapping any old compressed air tank on the back of an armored vest, it's literally making it a part of the armor and that's going to be more expensive than just a tank.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the gas mark gear entry specify the cost for additional tanks? I believe it was listed as 40 nuyen each, one hour capacity.
I would question why you would choose both, as the respirator only provides a plus Rating to tests to resist, while a gas mask is immunity. Unless you're up to your eyeballs with Tyrant GM Inc, you should just go for the gas mask to be honest.
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A gas mask "only" lasts for 1 hour from you put it on. A respirator lasts forever ;)
That being said, the entry for the gas mask specifically states that the two cannot be combined, so I'd veto combining a gas mask and a respirator in a ballistic mask at my table.
And cool, I was thinking of SR4 where the cost for a replacement tank was never statted. Now that it's statted for SR5, I have an answer for an SR4 player of mine, so thanks! Still doesn't stat "larger" tanks, but I'd just go with a straight multiplayer of (# of hours = Rating) and cost = (Rating * 40¥), availability -.
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A gas mask "only" lasts for 1 hour from you put it on. A respirator lasts forever ;)
That being said, the entry for the gas mask specifically states that the two cannot be combined, so I'd veto combining a gas mask and a respirator in a ballistic mask at my table.
And cool, I was thinking of SR4 where the cost for a replacement tank was never statted. Now that it's statted for SR5, I have an answer for an SR4 player of mine, so thanks! Still doesn't stat "larger" tanks, but I'd just go with a straight multiplayer of (# of hours = Rating) and cost = (Rating * 40¥), availability -.
Well, I'd take immunity to be honest, while I have plenty of situations where the Runners will be out there for far more than an hour, if the average runs needs more than one or two of these? I'd have to wonder what the designer was thinking. It would smell of screwing the players over for the sake of screwing them over.
Not to say the respirator isn't useful, just.... I don't know, the extra grade of protection with a little bit of planning and that plan mostly works. I know my preference.
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There's also the ambiguity of dual-vector toxins and protection/immunity against only one vector. We still haven't got real clarity from the devs what was intended here.
For example, what happens when a character with gear providing Immunity against inhalation vector toxins is hit by a toxin with both Inhalation and Contact vectors?
A respirator is also a much more common sight due to rampant pollution. Fluff seems to indicate that you could be walking down the streets of Seattle wearing a respirator and no one would look twice; a gas mask stands out more in a crowd. That's not always a relevant consideration, of course, but it is A consideration.
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There's also the ambiguity of dual-vector toxins and protection/immunity against only one vector. We still haven't got real clarity from the devs what was intended here.
For example, what happens when a character with gear providing Immunity against inhalation vector toxins is hit by a toxin with both Inhalation and Contact vectors?
A respirator is also a much more common sight due to rampant pollution. Fluff seems to indicate that you could be walking down the streets of Seattle wearing a respirator and no one would look twice; a gas mask stands out more in a crowd. That's not always a relevant consideration, of course, but it is A consideration.
True, though I'd argue, if you're on a Run, you're already being conspicuous, so you're loosing nothing by going for it.
Respirator for the day job, gas mask for the night job?
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Definitely a good idea to pack a gas mask if you're planning on using gas, or if you know there's a good chance the opponent will.
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Hmm, these things make me wonder... Can you apply the YNT Softweave upgrade to armor add-ons? Like to your helmet so it has 9 slots instead of 6?
Oh and one big benefit of a respirator over a gas mask is that you don't need to activate it. By which I mean, since it has a limit, you cannot be benefiting from it constantly, while you can use a respirator all the time. This is important because if you get hit with a gas grenade out of nowhere, you're not going to have time to put on/activate your gas mask before you breathe it in (probably).
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There's also the ambiguity of dual-vector toxins and protection/immunity against only one vector. We still haven't got real clarity from the devs what was intended here.
For example, what happens when a character with gear providing Immunity against inhalation vector toxins is hit by a toxin with both Inhalation and Contact vectors?
A respirator is also a much more common sight due to rampant pollution. Fluff seems to indicate that you could be walking down the streets of Seattle wearing a respirator and no one would look twice; a gas mask stands out more in a crowd. That's not always a relevant consideration, of course, but it is A consideration.
True, though I'd argue, if you're on a Run, you're already being conspicuous, so you're loosing nothing by going for it.
Respirator for the day job, gas mask for the night job?
Really I take the view if your being conspicuous on a run your doing it wrong. Well unless your job is to be obvious.
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A 2014 gas mask (a system where you breathe the surrounding gas after it have been filtered) is actually what SR5 like to call a Respirator.
SR5 gas mask is actually a full-mask re-breather-system.
Since you are not using it at different surrounding pressure you will not need a diligent gas like a re-breather used for underwater diving... and if it work anything like a 2014 re-breather the "air supply" will be a small volume (less than ~3 cubic inch or ~0.05 liters) of compressed 100% oxygen (just to keep up the oxygen partial pressure in the breathing gas) plus a scrubber filter that you need to fully replace every hour or so (unless they found another way to remove carbon dioxide from the breathing gas).
I would imagine that in the world of SR they would sell both the compressed oxygen and scrubber filter together as a complete package (which is probably the one-hour-clean-air-supply-replacement for 40¥ the book mention).
Only thing you need if you want to use the system under water would be a small tank of diligent gas (a few liters of compressed regular air) so it can match the surrounding pressure during descent.
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There's also the ambiguity of dual-vector toxins and protection/immunity against only one vector. We still haven't got real clarity from the devs what was intended here.
For example, what happens when a character with gear providing Immunity against inhalation vector toxins is hit by a toxin with both Inhalation and Contact vectors?
A respirator is also a much more common sight due to rampant pollution. Fluff seems to indicate that you could be walking down the streets of Seattle wearing a respirator and no one would look twice; a gas mask stands out more in a crowd. That's not always a relevant consideration, of course, but it is A consideration.
True, though I'd argue, if you're on a Run, you're already being conspicuous, so you're loosing nothing by going for it.
Respirator for the day job, gas mask for the night job?
Really I take the view if your being conspicuous on a run your doing it wrong. Well unless your job is to be obvious.
Take it to mean that even when you're not being obvious, you can become obvious pretty quickly. There's something about doing something illegal that just raises people's attention, if and when they notice you.
With Xenon's post, that requires a little thought on my end, while I certainly agree with it. The language could be better on the rule books part. If that's the case, surely a respirators filter should have to be replaced as well?
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Hmm, these things make me wonder... Can you apply the YNT Softweave upgrade to armor add-ons? Like to your helmet so it has 9 slots instead of 6?
I don't see why not, though as GM I'd likely rule that if the Armor isn't softweaved the helmet won't fit. Furthermore, I'd only allow it with helmets (and if you consider Armor-Stack Armor Accessories, then those as well), not with SecureTech and the socks and such. Maaaaaaybe with Shields.
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...surely a respirators filter should have to be replaced as well?
Eventually, yes.
Big difference is that with a respirator you exhale into the surrounding atmosphere.
And you breathe the surrounding atmosphere (after it pass through a filter which give you a positive dice pool modifier to resist inhalation vector based toxins).
With a re-breather you breathe the same air over and over and over again (just adding a bit of oxygen now and then to keep the oxygen levels up). The gas you exhale need to pass the scrubber filter which will "soak" up the excess carbon dioxide and eventually the scrubber filter will be saturated, but the gas never leave the system. So you are actually not exhaling anything into the surrounding atmosphere (same as if you use a re-breather system for diving at a constant depth there will be no bubbles for the enemies to spot on the surface).
...and if you don't exhale anything into the actual room then you are not leaving anything that can be analyzed (maybe by some sort of carbon dioxide sensor or whatever). And if you don't inhale anything from the actual room then you will be fully immune to any inhalation vector based toxins that might exist in the room....
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...surely a respirators filter should have to be replaced as well?
Eventually, yes.
Big difference is that with a respirator you exhale into the surrounding atmosphere.
And you breathe the surrounding atmosphere (after it pass through a filter which give you a positive dice pool modifier to resist inhalation vector based toxins).
With a re-breather you breathe the same air over and over and over again (just adding a bit of oxygen now and then to keep the oxygen levels up). The gas you exhale need to pass the scrubber filter which will "soak" up the excess carbon dioxide and eventually the scrubber filter will be saturated, but the gas never leave the system. So you are actually not exhaling anything into the surrounding atmosphere (same as if you use a re-breather system for diving at a constant depth there will be no bubbles for the enemies to spot on the surface).
...and if you don't exhale anything into the actual room then you are not leaving anything that can be analyzed (maybe by some sort of carbon dioxide sensor or whatever). And if you don't inhale anything from the actual room then you will be fully immune to any inhalation vector based toxins that might exist in the room....
Sounds like something to definitely have on a Run then, especially if the security has been upgraded.
Each has their place and uses.
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The idea of putting a respirator or gas mask in a ballistic mask kind of makes me think of the whole Darth Revan mask or Vader if you like helmets. :)
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It makes me think of something closer to Cobra Commander.
(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mroD832354j8awDpPdkvWDg.jpg)
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About armor add-ons, by the way, it's not explicitly clear if all armors can get them or just the Spacesuit. But that likely ain't a concern.
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SR5 Gas Mask?
(http://mcdn.scuba.com/images/masks/Ocean-Reef-Neptune-Space-Predator-Full-Face-Mask-with-2nd-Stage-Regulator.jpg)
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/cache-pics-orig/30/10837_image_bf84e9c058dc88fe3b9c095d78680972.jpeg)
(http://www.airlinebyjsink.com/userfiles/mantisblack.gif)
(http://casanovasadventures.com/catalog/dive/4068.6.jpg)
(http://mcdn.scuba.com/images/masks/Ocean-Reef-Neptune-Space-Full-Face-Mask-with-Hookah-2nd-Stage.jpg)
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Maybe.... to be honest I was more thinking something with a hood as well. Something that helped provide some protection against contact vector agents.
At least if you compare to the respirator, the idea that it was self contained unit really stood out.
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I always saw the main benefit of a respirator over a gas mask is that it's always on. Gas mask you have to activate, and with some gasses, that might translate to "you had to activate it before the gas actually hit you, uh,oops"
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I see that this disscusion is an undying one. Here are my suggestion at the topic.
-I see no problem with integrating a Ballisic Mask onto Gas Mask [it is not a typo]. As it would be simply a reinforced/armored variant of a combat gas mask.
-Also I see no problem with integrating a respirator into a Ballistic Mask as respirator itself is just set of filters. That keeps miniaturizing with time. At the beggining of bio/chem warfare at some point WWI they were big as 1.5L bottle so it was attached to chest, or backpack, with a hose to the mask itself. Nowdays commercial and military ones are quite small, the active carbon filtering system for most of biohazards is a size of big coin up to a size of can of sardines.
-Oh, so I wouldn't mind integrating respirato to a gas mask as it is a spall system, and doesn't need to be inside gas mask itself, it could a back up. With another 'hose' for it. As you still need to activate the gas mask, so why not put the respirator on the 'exterior vent' of the gas mask?
-One of the last things that come to my mind, the respirator is not devined quite well. Does it or does it not cover your eyes? This is crucial for countermeasuring some hazards, like peper gas.
It makes me think of something closer to Cobra Commander.
(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mroD832354j8awDpPdkvWDg.jpg)
-In my judgment this is a respirator, as it have a filter, not air supply of its own. As for me those simple medical mask and industrail mask so commonly seen on japanese streets also are some kind of respirators. So those wich Xenon posted would be more accurate.
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That's all nice and well, Booze, but the rules for Gas Masks include this line on page 449:
"It cannot be combined with a regular respirator."
You are of course free to house rule it, but that wording is pretty straight forward, neh?
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That's all nice and well, Booze, but the rules for Gas Masks include this line on page 449:
"It cannot be combined with a regular respirator."
You are of course free to house rule it, but that wording is pretty straight forward, neh?
Oh, yea. Your right, and I'm at work now AFB, as always... sorry. Still you could just close your eyes and dont breathe and change gas mask for a respirator, right? xD I'm pretty sure there is some military trainning of this sort ;)
And here is a conceptual picture for this topic, of integrating Ballisitc Mask with 'respiratory system'.
(http://hs-design.com/hsDNA/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/next-gen-repiratory-protection-system-686x1024.png)
Hope this is going to help with the idea itself
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That's an interesting piece of kit to be honest.
Actually, a little part of me wonders if it's as suggested, rather an up-armoured gas mask you're buying if you want to combine the two items.
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...Does it or does it not cover your eyes?
Good question.
SR5 gas mask cover your entire face (including, but not limited to, your eyes).
This is how i picture SR5 respirators:
(https://dtsft.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/bane.jpg)
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That's an interesting piece of kit to be honest.
Actually, a little part of me wonders if it's as suggested, rather an up-armoured gas mask you're buying if you want to combine the two items.
Again, the two items cannot be combined...
It cannot be combined with a regular respirator.
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That's an interesting piece of kit to be honest.
Actually, a little part of me wonders if it's as suggested, rather an up-armoured gas mask you're buying if you want to combine the two items.
Again, the two items cannot be combined...
It cannot be combined with a regular respirator.
I was referring to a gas mask and ballistic mask here.
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My bad. That's most certainly not a problem.
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My bad. That's most certainly not a problem.
I could have said it better. No harm, no foul?
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All good.