Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Koshnek on <06-29-14/1338:27>

Title: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Koshnek on <06-29-14/1338:27>
So, what do you guys think would you allow it? The rules seem to allow it, but I kinda cocked my head a little when I wrote it down, so I googled some images. It seems like the two might conflict unless we've developed new silencer tech in the future.

Also, do ALL weapons have side mounts? It seems like side mounts are new in R&G, but many guns only have specific mount locations in SR5. Are R&G side mounts on every gun that can take accessories? I.E. tasers and holdouts no, but pistols and up yes?
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <06-29-14/1616:24>
1) Probably not, no - unless the silencer is actually built into the gun, i.e. a modification, not an accessory.  I might allow it, though, after pointing out that a silencer is generally about the same length as a bayonet - 4-6" - and to use the bayonet is going to do damage to your silencer.

2) Dunno.  Side mounts are an interesting idea, but would depending highly on the weapon - and I'd say probably not pistols.  If the barrel housing moves during recoil, then no side mount is possible - because that's pretty much where the side mount is, errr, mounted.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: LionofPerth on <06-30-14/0320:24>
I'd say not. As a general rule to what I know of, the bayonet lug would get covered by a suppressor. Even if a suppressor was built into the weapon, I would still say no.

As for the side mounts, it would very much depend on the weapon. As a rule, I'd say that at a minimum, all submachine guns, assault rifles, battle rifles, do have side mounts. Machine pistols, pistols, hold outs, not in my game. Bolt action rifles, maybe, run it by me.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Reaver on <07-01-14/0057:47>
I would need some in game justification to allow a bayonet and a silencer... like the armor/gunsmithing skill and a workshop to make it. Definately NOT a store bought option :P

To have a side mount, the gun needs an unmoving side... so Smg and up only.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Emperors Grace on <07-01-14/1716:19>
As a general rule to what I know of, the bayonet lug would get covered by a suppressor.

I would need some in game justification to allow a bayonet and a silencer...

Just duct tape a knife handle to the silencer... All solved and little skill needed :)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Elektrycerze3 on <07-02-14/1217:50>
Just duct tape a knife handle to the silencer... All solved and little skill needed :)

(http://i.imgur.com/9vzYQwj.jpg)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: martinchaen on <07-02-14/1246:55>
Actually, that sounds like a perfect example of usage of the Jury Rigger positive quality :D
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Dinendae on <07-03-14/0257:10>
As a general rule to what I know of, the bayonet lug would get covered by a suppressor.

I would need some in game justification to allow a bayonet and a silencer...

Just duct tape a knife handle to the silencer... All solved and little skill needed :)

Just make sure that any cross-guard on the knife isn't in the way of where the round comes out of the muzzle, or the first time you shoot your gun will be...unpleasant. ;D
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The other Bandit on <07-11-14/0844:01>
I am sure in the 2070īs some company will have made a bayonet rail adapter so you do not need a bayonet lug on your rifle (hell there are fricking chainsaws attachable!!!).

So  silencers and bayonets might work... but better be sure to get a looong bayonet!

Or you could use an overlong freefloating frontrail set-up that covers the silencer almost to the tip... hm that actually might look really badass... stupid but badass  8)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: martinchaen on <07-11-14/0846:58>
I stab the darkness with my bayonet-silencer after shooting it!!1!
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Herohades on <07-14-14/1103:44>
I would say that the player could do the bayonet-silencer combo, but with modifiers, like a -2 modifier for stabbing with the bayonet or make it prone to breakage.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: adzling on <07-14-14/1945:43>
y not put a shaped charge, directional explosive on it instead?

pfft a knife, really?
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: JimmyCrisis on <07-14-14/2018:30>
There are weapons with integral silencers, like the Yamaha Raiden.  It would be fine to mount a bayonet on something like that... depending on the model.  As long as the silencer can itself is built into the barrel and doesn't extend past the foregrip, a bayonet should be fine.  The Ingram Smartgun X would be a hard NO, going by the image.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Leevizer on <07-14-14/2246:07>
Why not?

I mean, last time I checked the Bayonet wasn't some OMGWTFBBQ gamebreaking item so if your player wants to have both, let them do it? If you really need to, you can make up any number of justifiable excuses for this (the silencer is actually just a modification to the barrel and not something you screw on, the silencer is very short etc etc.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Lethal Joke on <07-15-14/0203:32>
Well, according to the rulebooks, the bayonet is a top-or-bottom mounted modification to assault rifles or larger (Run & Gun, pg. 50-51) and the silencer/suppressor is a barrel-mounted addon. (Core Rulebook, not with me to check the page.)

Not seeing the conflict in the rules. Maybe in visualizing it...
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <07-15-14/0222:07>
There is more to playing than the rules.  A silencer, by its nature, sticks out from the barrel; the bayonet, by its nature, does as well.  You would effectively have a two-inch knife on the end of your weapon which, if you use it, you run a chance of fouling up / damaging the silencer you added on.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Lethal Joke on <07-15-14/0231:33>
There is more to playing than the rules.  A silencer, by its nature, sticks out from the barrel; the bayonet, by its nature, does as well.  You would effectively have a two-inch knife on the end of your weapon which, if you use it, you run a chance of fouling up / damaging the silencer you added on.

Hence my "Maybe in visualizing it..."

Though if the bayonet is attached on top or below, the issue becomes less "Using bayonet will ruin the silencer" and more "The silencer is in the way of the bayonet."
May very well be the same result, but hey.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Leevizer on <07-15-14/0237:20>
Longer bayonet. Stick a Long sword into your rifle and then use the barrel and the stock like you'd use with a traditional two-handed sword. Then take the negative quality for distinctive style.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Lucean on <07-15-14/0504:08>
And suffer a loss in Accuracy for an even worse ability to utilize it not only in melee but also as a ranged weapon because of the increased weight and worse concealability (which you mentioned).
Not a good idea :)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Leevizer on <07-15-14/0508:27>
But it might also count as an added weight for terms of recoil compensation on full auto!

And speaking of conceability, you'd just need to pass it off in some amazing way. "Uh, I'm uh... This is Cosplay?"

Speaking of which, if I EVER make a physical adept, I'll give him performance and stick him with this http://www.guitaraficionado.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/axe.jpg (http://www.guitaraficionado.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/axe.jpg)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: JimmyCrisis on <07-15-14/0633:39>
There is more to playing than the rules.  A silencer, by its nature, sticks out from the barrel; the bayonet, by its nature, does as well.  You would effectively have a two-inch knife on the end of your weapon which, if you use it, you run a chance of fouling up / damaging the silencer you added on.

Which is why I would think an integral silencer would be fine with a bayonet... still, I can't find any legit examples, real world or no.  This is one of those things where I think bayonets should take the barrel slot, while foregrip belongs as an underbarrel accessory.  Also, why the foregrip specifically can't be used on pistols is beyond me.  There's plenty of real examples of this.  The CZ 75 and Beretta 93R being two.


Longer bayonet. Stick a Long sword into your rifle and then use the barrel and the stock like you'd use with a traditional two-handed sword. Then take the negative quality for distinctive style.

I see you've heard of the Lee Enfield!
http://jebus-of-serbia.tumblr.com/image/45540712475


Speaking of which, if I EVER make a physical adept, I'll give him performance and stick him with this http://www.guitaraficionado.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/axe.jpg (http://www.guitaraficionado.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/axe.jpg)

Why do I think this would sound terrible, and only once.

Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: LionofPerth on <07-15-14/0742:21>
In regards to the Lee Enflield, beautiful rifle. Mark 3* in the photo?

Quite the bayonet they had. If you're up for a little bit of history, look at the charge of the 4th Light Horse at Beersheba, they used their bayonets as swords as they fought on horse back. An action I would challenged saved the Palestinian campaign, considering the need for water, the wells of Beersheba.

Also, if you're after a really long bayonet, I believe the Baker Rifle, that was called, if I remember the accounts of Rifleman Harris, a sword bayonet. Make of that what you will.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: MrGray on <09-20-14/1910:09>
If  INF the US military does not have the bayonet mount anymore why would you?
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: JimmyCrisis on <09-20-14/1947:58>
If  INF the US military does not have the bayonet mount anymore why would you?

Why would civilian criminals care what some military strategic supply bureaucrat decides is good for the rank-and-file grunt?  It's apples and oranges.  For one, shadowrunners don't need to march through the jungle or the desert with 100 pounds of crap on their back (usually), and they also don't get to count on serious back-up when they run into a firefight.  Plus, who gets killed with a bayonet anymore?  Total style points.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: MijRai on <09-20-14/1953:41>
If  INF the US military does not have the bayonet mount anymore why would you?

They still have bayonet mounts and issued bayonets, just so you know.  They even give you some training on it.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-21-14/0915:48>
I am sure in the 2070īs some company will have made a bayonet rail adapter so you do not need a bayonet lug on your rifle (hell there are fricking chainsaws attachable!!!).

So  silencers and bayonets might work... but better be sure to get a looong bayonet!

Or you could use an overlong freefloating frontrail set-up that covers the silencer almost to the tip and mount the silencer on there... hm that actually might look really badass... stupid but badass  8)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-21-14/2203:19>
'Stupid' automatically fails the 'badass' test.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Xenon on <09-22-14/0931:13>
pretty sure at least the top of the four under-barrel-mounted bayonets in the picture below would work with a barrel mounted sound-suppressor (at least length wise).

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/World-War-II-US-Military-Bayonets.jpg)


One more example:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Vietnam-War-US-Military-Bayonets.jpg)




Pistol mounted bayonet?

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/NakedAV/A-Bayonet1-01.jpg)
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-22-14/1147:52>
Length-wise, maybe - at least a little.  Like I said originally, you'd still be risking damage to the silencer if you want to do any real damage with the bayonet.  *shrugs*  Stupidity is its own reward.

On the other hand, I gotta admit that that pistol-bayonet is just about the most violent-cute thing I've seen in a while.  An almost realistic version of the pistol-blade things ... after all, if you have two inches of steel in you, you might forget that there's a barrel with bullets immediately behind it ...
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-23-14/1309:19>
'Stupid' automatically fails the 'badass' test.

If that was true we would live in a very boring world.

Heck, we play a game in which the terms "cyberninja", "racoon shaman", "nanotech AI" and "president Dunkelzahn" may be uttered in the same sentence without too many raised eyebrows.
That could be interpreted as pretty stupid, yet it is exitingly badass  8)

More on topic:

I still think the supressed bayonet could work awesomely, but only in specialised cases.
For example, can you just take your standard Sandler TMP, screw on a supressor and attach a bayonet? Propably not for reasons mentioned above.
But if a player comes to me and says his gun fu adept needs a bayonet on his silent SMG, why not?
An internaly supressed SMG like the HK227S, with the melee hardening mod should be sturdy enough to mount something sharp on the under barrel rail.

@Xenon: Big props for the picture of the trenchgun with mounted swordbayonet... THAT is how you do CQB!
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: 8-bit on <09-23-14/1314:54>
Heck, we play a game in which the terms "cyberninja", "racoon shaman", "nanotech AI" and "president Dunkelzahn" may be uttered in the same sentence without too many raised eyebrows.
That could be interpreted as pretty stupid, yet it is exitingly badass  8)

I found it hilarious that as I read through the terms you listed not a single one struck me as odd. I can't tell if that is depressing because it's true, or incredibly amazing.

I feel like Silencers and Bayonets should either not stack, or if they do, take a -1 or -2 penalty to shooting due to having to be careful of the bayonet (and the extra weight etc. etc. that comes with it). Or shoot recklessly and have a 20-25% chance of damaging you bayonet. Just my opinion though, I have no experience with this stuff in real life.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-23-14/1344:55>
It is incredibly amazing believe me and it is healthy to acknowlegde that sometimes. Especially because there is enough other stuff around that is truly depressing. But a shared universe like the one of shadowrun is simply... fun  ;D


I do not have any hands-on bayonet experience either, but I have read stories of soldiers saying that a fixed bayonet did make handling the rifle harder. So applying modifiers if you have TWO heavy attachments at the end of your gun does sound reasonable. Maybe for shots beyond short range or something like that.
Title: Re: Silencer + Bayonet?
Post by: Koshnek on <10-01-14/1014:50>
Lol that was an impressively long Bayonet. Pff..I just happen to browse the gear section two months later and I'm like Whaaa? lol. I kinda like what he said about integral silencer + bayonet. Otherwise, I think it's a bit much to have both.

Dat baby bayonet on the pistol tho.