Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: tasti man LH on <07-12-14/0128:51>

Title: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-12-14/0128:51>
So, what books would I look at to find information regarding the various mercenary companies of Shadowrun?

Fields of Fire isn't quite what I'm looking for since flipping through that, all it's about is how to play a mercenary character and not necessarily about the merc corporations and outfits.

I do already own 10 Mercs, but I'm looking for information on the "mainstream" merc companies, so to speak. What books are there for that?

And as an additional note: any particular merc corp that specializes in assassination or unconventional warfare?
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Nightmare on <07-12-14/1034:19>

And as an additional note: any particular merc corp that specializes in assassination or unconventional warfare?

10,000 Daggers has been mentioned as one of the types to take potential assassination/unconventional warfare contracts.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Mystic on <07-12-14/1135:49>
WAR! for the fluff. State of the Art 2063 and Fields of Fire have info, but dated. Runner Havens mentions Combat, Inc. And Vice mentions the connection between the 58th Battle Brigade and the Triads. 

But there is also some up to date stuff in the Aztlan section of Storm Front.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-12-14/2055:12>
State of the Art: 2063

The big four are MET2000, Tsunami, Combat, Inc., and 10,000 Daggers.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Carpool on <07-12-14/2120:55>
El Caudrillo! I worked them into the background of my weapons specialist and our GM has used Picador to pull me and our team into some weeeeeeeeeeeeeeird shit
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-13-14/0054:18>
Fields of Fire is the shit as far as any sourcebook for any game goes. I have a merc buddy who treats it as his bible. No shit.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Mystic on <07-13-14/1837:13>
El Caudrillo! I worked them into the background of my weapons specialist and our GM has used Picador to pull me and our team into some weeeeeeeeeeeeeeird shit

That puts a smile on my face.  8)
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Carpool on <07-13-14/1933:05>
Quote from: Carpool on July 12, 2014, 08:20:55 PM
El Caudrillo! I worked them into the background of my weapons specialist and our GM has used Picador to pull me and our team into some weeeeeeeeeeeeeeird shit

That puts a smile on my face.  8)


Oh thank you! Breaker is the most well realized of my character, even if he began as a copypasta of the 4e Weapons Spec, he took on a life of his own and background that has endured.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Sengir on <07-14-14/1328:50>
WAR! for the fluff
Recommending that book borders on criminal assault...and the fluff it has on mercenaries is mostly just repetition from SOTA 63, nothing really to be gained from reading it.


As for the original question, 10,000 Daggers are the largest group which specializes in unconventional warfare.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: martinchaen on <07-14-14/1436:10>
I thought WAR! was a good book. I see absolutely no problem recommending it, as it has far more than just repeated material from SOTA 2063 in addition to some of that.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-14-14/1515:17>
Well, when I actually peeked at WAR!, the only bad thing I can think of about that section is just Aufhenban waxing poetic about how awesome Black Star is...without really explaining what Black Star DOES.

Still, 10,000 Daggers? I'll keep that in mind....
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Mystic on <07-14-14/1835:12>
Well, when I actually peeked at WAR!, the only bad thing I can think of about that section is just Aufhenban just waxing poetic about how awesome Black Star is...without really explaining what Black Star DOES.

Still, 10,000 Daggers? I'll keep that in mind....

I've always considered Black Star as "insurgents for hire" blanketing themselves in righteous indignation. But as a whole, they're of little consequence after they were gutted by the end of the war.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-14-14/1843:36>
Well, when I actually peeked at WAR!, the only bad thing I can think of about that section is just Aufhenban just waxing poetic about how awesome Black Star is...without really explaining what Black Star DOES.

Officially, they are the violent arm of the "official" anarchist movement.

Quote from: Loose Alliances, 25
This secretive group is unusual for a large-scale anarchist organization in that it is composed almost exclusively of shadowrunners. Operating underground, its intended goal is to recruit, train and foster insurrectionist activities. Some anarchists view this group as somewhat elitist, and it does indeed serve a paramilitary special forces role for the anarchist movement at times. Organized into networked affinity teams, Black Star runners do not hesitate to take on shadow ops that put a dent in the system.

Realistically, what Mystic said.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-14-14/1901:42>
Well, FWIW, all this is because I have a player who wants to make a character that's a merc, in 4th edition (circa 2073), so naturally the events of Storm Front haven't happened yet. So even if he does pick Black Star (which I doubt) they aren't in the state of being completely gutted as they were at the end of the AzAm War.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Sengir on <07-14-14/1909:43>
I thought WAR! was a good book. I see absolutely no problem recommending it, as it has far more than just repeated material from SOTA 2063 in addition to some of that.
Sure, it also adds
- Killing Holocaust victims once over to steal their necromantic treasures (worth 1500 ¥ or something and violating every rules on magic items)
- Typography running berserk
- Information on street festivals alternating with sections claiming the city looks like a second Stalingrad
-- And again alternating with blurps on jungle warfare, because on of the few constants in the book is the authors' assumption that Bogota lies in the rainfores
- Aircraft carriers turned into submarines because the authors didn't know what "Ballast Tanks" do in SR
- Explosive rules which turn a bag of hand grenades into a mini nuke
- MRSI for arrows which simply doubles their damage
- The comically overpowered Slow spell

What it doesn't have: Any information on the actual war. No front lines, battles, geographic references, not even a single map in the whole book. This "product" is so exceptionally comically bad and devoid of any saving graces that it can't even work as a cautionary tale.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: martinchaen on <07-14-14/1948:46>
Well, you're clearly biased against it, Sengir, and I'm not, so I'll just leave that discussion well alone...

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-14-14/2105:52>
Well, FWIW, all this is because I have a player who wants to make a character that's a merc, in 4th edition (circa 2073), so naturally the events of Storm Front haven't happened yet. So even if he does pick Black Star (which I doubt) they aren't in the state of being completely gutted as they were at the end of the AzAm War.
How cybered is he? Some of the big shops focus on that (MET2000, Tsunami), and others shy from it (10,000 Daggers). Also, if he's Japanese he'd be welcome in Tsunami. If not, there's always Combat, Inc. 10,000 Daggers is pretty meta and Awakened friendly. Black Star, of course, is the most Awakened-friendly (1/3 Awakened).
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-14-14/2108:06>
- Killing Holocaust victims once over to steal their necromantic treasures (worth 1500 ¥ or something and violating every rules on magic items)
That one is flat out fucking bullshit.

Ghosts are ghosts. They are not, and never were human. The ghosts in Auschwitz have always been dangerously violent, human-hating, evil spirits. The entire fucking plot was an extension of one begun in Shadows of Europe, but ...

There is no point in discussing this further, because it doesn't even merit discussion. It's false. It's always been false, and it will always be false.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-15-14/0151:22>
How cybered is he? Some of the big shops focus on that (MET2000, Tsunami), and others shy from it (10,000 Daggers). Also, if he's Japanese he'd be welcome in Tsunami. If not, there's always Combat, Inc. 10,000 Daggers is pretty meta and Awakened friendly. Black Star, of course, is the most Awakened-friendly (1/3 Awakened).
Don't know yet.

Details he's given me as of right now is:

-mercenary
-grew up and worked in an unstable part(s) of the world
-assassination and unconventional warfare expert
-maybe traps (although haven't really looked at if SR4A has anything solid and written in regards to mundane traps)
-stealth based with a focus on melee and close quarters combat

So yeah; he could go either way on the augmented or Awakened route (adept ideally)
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: gyrobot on <07-15-14/0219:26>
Well, FWIW, all this is because I have a player who wants to make a character that's a merc, in 4th edition (circa 2073), so naturally the events of Storm Front haven't happened yet. So even if he does pick Black Star (which I doubt) they aren't in the state of being completely gutted as they were at the end of the AzAm War.
How cybered is he? Some of the big shops focus on that (MET2000, Tsunami), and others shy from it (10,000 Daggers). Also, if he's Japanese he'd be welcome in Tsunami. If not, there's always Combat, Inc. 10,000 Daggers is pretty meta and Awakened friendly. Black Star, of course, is the most Awakened-friendly (1/3 Awakened).

Black Star is dead as of Storm front.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-15-14/0238:47>
Black Star is dead as of Storm front.
And as I said...
Well, FWIW, all this is because I have a player who wants to make a character that's a merc, in 4th edition (circa 2073), so naturally the events of Storm Front haven't happened yet. So even if he does pick Black Star (which I doubt) they aren't in the state of being completely gutted as they were at the end of the AzAm War.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-15-14/0257:05>
How cybered is he? Some of the big shops focus on that (MET2000, Tsunami), and others shy from it (10,000 Daggers). Also, if he's Japanese he'd be welcome in Tsunami. If not, there's always Combat, Inc. 10,000 Daggers is pretty meta and Awakened friendly. Black Star, of course, is the most Awakened-friendly (1/3 Awakened).
Don't know yet.

Details he's given me as of right now is:

-mercenary
-grew up and worked in an unstable part(s) of the world
-assassination and unconventional warfare expert
-maybe traps (although haven't really looked at if SR4A has anything solid and written in regards to mundane traps)
-stealth based with a focus on melee and close quarters combat

So yeah; he could go either way on the augmented or Awakened route (adept ideally)

I'd be inclined to say he's a 10,000 Daggers alum. However, he could've always done grunt work for Argus, which is the intelligence arm of MET2000. They're big enough to contract out on their own, as well. So kind of like the random CIA henchmen in every stupid Bourne, etc. movie of the last twenty years. That is to also explain how he got skills, but wasn't trained/experienced so well to be the baddest of all badasses. After all he is a starting character.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Sengir on <07-15-14/0500:22>
Well, you're clearly biased against it
Says the guy who claims that a book which even those involved have admitted to be the low point of the brand and only a result of being rushed out by committee was a good book...


And Argus is be more about intelligence gathering (and MP duties) than "hands on" black ops...MET in general is not exactly the most subtle mercenary team.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: martinchaen on <07-15-14/0833:01>
You'll note that I specifically said I'm not biased against it, which you should feel free to take as meaning I'm biased FOR it. That is all.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Sengir on <07-15-14/1320:56>
You'll note that I specifically said
...the following
I thought WAR! was a good book.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: martinchaen on <07-15-14/1346:18>
Wow, really?

And after that, I said this:
Well, you're clearly biased against it, Sengir, and I'm not, so I'll just leave that discussion well alone...

Enjoy!
I honestly have no idea why you're going on at this point, so I'm out.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-16-14/1605:04>
How cybered is he? Some of the big shops focus on that (MET2000, Tsunami), and others shy from it (10,000 Daggers). Also, if he's Japanese he'd be welcome in Tsunami. If not, there's always Combat, Inc. 10,000 Daggers is pretty meta and Awakened friendly. Black Star, of course, is the most Awakened-friendly (1/3 Awakened).
Don't know yet.

Details he's given me as of right now is:

-mercenary
-grew up and worked in an unstable part(s) of the world
-assassination and unconventional warfare expert
-maybe traps (although haven't really looked at if SR4A has anything solid and written in regards to mundane traps)
-stealth based with a focus on melee and close quarters combat

So yeah; he could go either way on the augmented or Awakened route (adept ideally)

I'd be inclined to say he's a 10,000 Daggers alum. However, he could've always done grunt work for Argus, which is the intelligence arm of MET2000. They're big enough to contract out on their own, as well. So kind of like the random CIA henchmen in every stupid Bourne, etc. movie of the last twenty years. That is to also explain how he got skills, but wasn't trained/experienced so well to be the baddest of all badasses. After all he is a starting character.

So just to clarify:

Adept --> 10,000 Daggers


Street Sam/Cybered --> MET2000/Argus
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Nath on <07-16-14/1739:45>
MET2000 and Tsunami probably have some adepts, even if not a lot, and 10000 Daggers may also have cybered operators. It depends on how typical you want the character to be.

A Japanese adept may feel more at home at Tsunami, and a cybered Turkish would work for the Daggers. I actually find nationality to be somewhat more flavorful, and would use the following guidelines:

- German, Polish and Scandinavian mercenaries at MET2000
- Turkish, Ukrainian, Georgian, Lebanese and Syrian mercs at 10,000 Daggers
- Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysian and Filipino mercs at Combat, Incorporated
- Japanese, Korean, Australian, Fijian, Tongan and other Polynesian mercs at Tsunami

Nothing like the look on the face of players who expected a team of tidy Japanese human mercenaries and encounter a squad of tattooed Fijian orks and trolls with the latest ware from Chiba.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Sendaz on <07-16-14/1742:45>

Nothing like the look on the face of players who expected a team of tidy Japanese human mercenaries and encounter a squad of tattooed Fijian orks and trolls with the latest ware from Chiba.
The latter group often being referred to as 'Fijish and Chibs' , though not to their face. :P
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-16-14/2150:53>
Nothing like the look on the face of players who expected a team of tidy Japanese human mercenaries and encounter a squad of tattooed Fijian orks and trolls with the latest ware from Chiba.
Pfft.

Like they'd give the cannon fodder cyber.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Sengir on <07-17-14/0621:00>
I honestly have no idea why you're going on at this point, so I'm out.
If you are rooting for a product even the developers have abandoned, maybe it's time to reign in your inner fanboy...
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-17-14/1539:32>
...and my player decided to go with none of the Big 4 and instead steered towards Bravo Company from 10 Mercs. Some how I'm not surprised he chose to go off the beaten path. That said, he's still playing with the idea of going 10,000 Daggers. We'll see...

Also had to gently steer him away from FMC, for fear of getting laughed off any SR forums board.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Parker on <07-17-14/1925:49>
Well, you're clearly biased against it
Says the guy who claims that a book which even those involved have admitted to be the low point of the brand and only a result of being rushed out by committee was a good book...


And Argus is be more about intelligence gathering (and MP duties) than "hands on" black ops...MET in general is not exactly the most subtle mercenary team.
You'll note that I specifically said I'm not biased against it, which you should feel free to take as meaning I'm biased FOR it. That is all.
You'll note that I specifically said
...the following
I thought WAR! was a good book.
Wow, really?

And after that, I said this:
Well, you're clearly biased against it, Sengir, and I'm not, so I'll just leave that discussion well alone...

Enjoy!
I honestly have no idea why you're going on at this point, so I'm out.

I honestly have no idea why you're going on at this point, so I'm out.
If you are rooting for a product even the developers have abandoned, maybe it's time to reign in your inner fanboy...

     OY!  WILL YOU TWO GET A ROOM ALREADY!  Anyway, nothing prevents a creative GM from whipping up their own groups, whether regional, national or even bigger. ;)
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: tasti man LH on <07-17-14/2049:07>
Anyway, nothing prevents a creative GM from whipping up their own groups, whether regional, national or even bigger. ;)
Eh, only if the "official" versions don't have what me and my players are looking for. Thankfully, there was.
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: lazlo on <07-17-14/2128:54>
So just to clarify:

Adept --> 10,000 Daggers


Street Sam/Cybered --> MET2000/Argus

Wasn't Thorn a member of Argus?  Or am I remembering wrong?
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Crimsondude on <07-17-14/2204:54>
Yes he was. I was just stating in generalities.

Anyway, that's great that he finally decided. But don't ever worry about forum reactions. If he wants to play FMC, then so be. Any random internet jackass that doesn't like it can go fuck themselves. It's not their game. That applies to everything. I was dismissive of Nath's idea because I prefer the #2 merc shop to be a racist as Hell Japanese firm, and Tsunami fits the bill as far as fluff has described it. That doesn't make me the arbiter of your game. Just like Thorn. I've been describing the firms in general, but they are bigass corps. There are always exceptions. But overall/dominant corp culture would, I figure, be a major factor in deciding which to choose.

And that goes back to my first point. If he really wants to be FMC, nothing any of us internet jackasses say about it or anything else as a subjective matter should be relevant to his decision. It's his PC and your guys' game; not ours. You're the ones trying to have fun, not us (at your table).
Title: Re: Regarding Mercenaries...
Post by: Mystic on <07-17-14/2315:22>
Word.  ;)