Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: FreezeBoxJawsh on <08-21-14/1323:05>

Title: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: FreezeBoxJawsh on <08-21-14/1323:05>
I've got 32 karma to spend on miscellaneous things and I was really wanting to pick up a throwing as another active skill but I don't know the cost to pick it up and I haven't seen anybody else take it so I don't know if it's worth the money and karma to buy it and then the shuriken. 
My strength is at 8 and agility at 7 as an ork street Sam . My question is "is it worth the cost ?" Because it seems like a lot of fun and that it could add flavor
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Ryo on <08-21-14/1331:25>
The cost of a skill is New Rating*2, for each rating you want. So if you don't have Throwing Weapons at all, rating 1 will cost 2 karma, rating 2 will cost 4 karma, and so on. With 32 karma, you could get up to Throwing Weapons 5 for 30 karma, or Throwing Weapons 4 (Aerodynamic) for a specialty that applies to shuriken for 27 karma.

a Shuriken has an Accuracy equal to Physical Limit, Damage equal to Str+1, and AP -1. The ranges are 0-STR Short, STR*2 Medium, STR*5 Long, and STR*7 Extreme.

With an Ork Street Sam with 8 Strength, that's 9P -1 AP, which is better than most heavy pistols, and your accuracy probably is too, since you'll have a hell of a Physical Limit. The range is also comparable to a Heavy Pistol, with 0-8 short, 16 medium, 40 long and 56 extreme.

Not only that, but you can always collect your shuriken from your enemy's body after throwing them, so you don't even really have to worry about ammo.

So yes, for your build, it sounds pretty worth the cost.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: prionic6 on <08-21-14/1357:07>
I'm not sure if there are specific rules but you could also coat the shuriken with injection or touch vector toxins. You know, because ;)
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Kincaid on <08-21-14/1458:01>
Don't forget that you can use a smartlink with shuriken, making them more effective as the Combat Turn goes on.

Trolls/orks with shuriken are a staple of the setting.  It's a very quiet, fairly lethal ranged attack that brings with it a few interesting options.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: subgenius on <08-21-14/2047:39>
Yes, go for it! The silent takedown is fantastic and you can smuggle those things into nearly any place. We had a guy who kept vials of narcojet to coat them before sneak attacks too, and that worked like a charm. Until he rolled a critical glitch and didn't have any edge left... But hey, at least he wasn't using a monowhip.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Lethal Joke on <08-21-14/2209:50>
Add to that the shuriken are pretty darned quiet, it's a good sell for a high-STR character. As a GM, as much as I exploit the fact that my players love the relatively-silent bow I applaud their use of a weapon that is quieter than a suppressed firearm.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Wavefire on <08-22-14/0553:09>
They are also easy to smuggle with you, very small, can possible be disguised as ornamentations and if crafted in a heavy dense plastic won't be caught by MAD scanners.

Added bonus is grenades and looking very cool.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: FreezeBoxJawsh on <08-23-14/1052:40>
Thanks for all the info and suggestions I believe I will take the skill especially after finding a Bo-shuriken called the "spatula" that opens up inside them if I have the strength rating for the throw which I will. Nothing like getting extra damage  😈
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Mirikon on <08-23-14/1305:48>
I like having throwing weapons on my more 'ninja'-ish builds. Much quieter than guns, while still providing decent damage. Plus, the flavor is awesome.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <08-24-14/0518:49>
.... six words for you: 'Throwing spikes, Steampunk Line, boned corset'.

I know what I'm getting Hawatari for Christmas ...
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Mirikon on <08-24-14/1038:06>
Also, for the ladies, a throwing knife disguised as a hair pin can still get in to most venues. Sure, unless you're an adept that focuses everything into throwing weapons you won't out-damage an assault rifle, but the ability to conceal weapons on you in plain sight is not a small thing in high society gatherings.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Tarislar on <08-24-14/2310:25>
Concealable, Silent, Converts to Grenades.  What is not to like about the Throwing Skill !

For 32 Karma,  I'd probably go L4 right off the bat.  Fastish training time to get to that point & only 20 Karma.
After that start working on Specialization training if you want for 7 Karma.   Giving you 11 & 13 Dice respectively when your throwing.

Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Novocrane on <08-25-14/0335:58>
Don't forget R&G's entirely missable BoomerEye; it's a boomerang reconnaissance sensor. Which is to say you throw it over an open space, try to catch it (Agi + Rea (4)), then check the footage.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Kincaid on <08-25-14/1000:46>
Wish we had a price for that.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: martinchaen on <08-25-14/1044:29>
250¥ or 350¥?

Price or a regular Boomerang (50¥) plus the cost of a single sensor camera [200 or 300¥]?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: FreezeBoxJawsh on <08-25-14/1140:34>
Found some shuriken that act as mini UAVs that have smart link built in and auto correct their flight path to seek out weakest parts of enemy armor (joints and neck) and then correct course to direct itself to hit there. Called the Saeder-Krupp Nuriken
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: JmOz01 on <08-31-14/0849:31>
Don't forget R&G's entirely missable BoomerEye; it's a boomerang reconnaissance sensor. Which is to say you throw it over an open space, try to catch it (Agi + Rea (4)), then check the footage.

Why not wireless?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Novocrane on <08-31-14/1045:50>
Might not want the AR penalties while catching, and VR would be right out. If you're watching the feed later, wireless seems excessive ... unless you aren't sure about catching it.

I didn't want to assume the user would be someone that can't catch a boomerang. :)
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Xenon on <08-31-14/1459:09>
Might not want the AR penalties...
AR penalties...?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: MijRai on <08-31-14/1703:51>
Might not want the AR penalties...
AR penalties...?

Augmented Reality penalties of watching what the boomerang is filming while simultaneously catching it on the way back, is what I assume they meant.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Xenon on <09-01-14/1146:54>
I'd imagine you get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice on your meat body perception tests while simultaneous watching the live stream of the boomerang

...similar to how you would take a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice while your augmented reality matrix persona is in a host hacking.

But beyond that?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Csjarrat on <09-04-14/0545:53>
id call for a composure check to cover effects from motion sickness. have you seen a boomerang inflight? lol, a camera attached to one would make for...difficult viewing
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: martinchaen on <09-04-14/0639:00>
Gyro-stabilization?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Csjarrat on <09-04-14/0715:24>
Gyro-stabilization?
definitely! :-)
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Xenon on <09-04-14/1224:43>
id call for a composure check to cover effects from motion sickness. have you seen a boomerang inflight? lol, a camera attached to one would make for...difficult viewing
You can have an augmented reality "window" with your persona traveling the matrix, entering hosts or if you are a hacker even hacking wireless devices. The only negative modifier to your meat body get is a -2 dice to perception tests... You can also have multiple live feeds in your field of vision at the same time (from your friends cybereyes, smartlinked firearms, security cameras and drones that your decker hacked and is now snooping and sharing with you). Why would a live feed from your wireless boomerang be different...?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Csjarrat on <09-04-14/1655:20>
id call for a composure check to cover effects from motion sickness. have you seen a boomerang inflight? lol, a camera attached to one would make for...difficult viewing
You can have an augmented reality "window" with your persona traveling the matrix, entering hosts or if you are a hacker even hacking wireless devices. The only negative modifier to your meat body get is a -2 dice to perception tests... You can also have multiple live feeds in your field of vision at the same time (from your friends cybereyes, smartlinked firearms, security cameras and drones that your decker hacked and is now snooping and sharing with you). Why would a live feed from your wireless boomerang be different...?
it wasn't a serious suggestion mate. I find the concept of a camera attached to a speedily rotating stick a little hard to get on board with.
It'd need to be attached to a gyroscopically stabilised camera gimbal, much like today's aerial drones have, which is a bit unwieldy and probably affects the balance of the flight somewhat.
Don't really care either way to be honest. its not something that'll really ever see much play
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-04-14/2202:03>
Why stick on gimbals and gyroscopes, when you have powerful computers that can compensate for this crap literally on the fly??  The only reason to use a boomerang is so that you get it back and can use it again.  Well, that and the fact that it'll show the same face to the ground the entire time ...
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Wavefire on <09-05-14/0311:15>
Actually a boomerang is not a bad idea, would advise against live viewing with the swift whirling motion though.

Advantages would include same phasing downwards at all times, ability to go around corners, quiet, no need to radio control it and if discovered would probably get a first reaction of "huh?" instead of "Alarm!". Also avoids difficult customs questions in the more repressive countries.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: welldressedgent on <09-06-14/1646:05>

Wyrm is right. I always assumed software compensated for the rotation not hardware.

g
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-18-14/2118:52>
Maybe a bit of both hard/software compensation. Through the rotation you get a 360 degree picture that gets interpreted through software. Maybe even put a laserscanner in there to get a topographical map of the ground. Or Ultrasound? After its return, data gets distributed through your wireless and your entire team has a map of the suroundings. You could simply use a minidrone instead... but where is the fun in that  ;D
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Yinan on <09-19-14/0447:29>
Why not just put in an Ultrasound sensor to get a 50m radius 3D Map around the Boomerang and the Software should definitely be able to compensate for the rotation?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Wavefire on <09-19-14/0451:53>
Maybe a bit of both hard/software compensation. Through the rotation you get a 360 degree picture that gets interpreted through software. Maybe even put a laserscanner in there to get a topographical map of the ground. Or Ultrasound? After its return, data gets distributed through your wireless and your entire team has a map of the suroundings. You could simply use a minidrone instead... but where is the fun in that  ;D

Personally I'd avoid any RF addons. A drone can always get detected by a scanner, same with any active surveillance gear. But a "dumb" boomerang that records and then transmits on retrieval is close to impossible to detect, especially at night. But the software compensation is a great idea. The spinning motion would give you a complete picture of the target area. My next char is getting Throwing weapons for sure! :)
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-19-14/0624:36>
If you want to go completely wireless even better! Throw your Camerang, catch it, read out gathered intel via skinlink and burst the data to your team via line-of-sight direct lasertransmission. Should be safe enough  8)
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-19-14/0922:01>
Remember, kids, that if you have the right program, you can model image-against-time to provide a three-dimensional map of an area through simple camera work.  It may take a couple more seconds' processing, but hey ...
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-19-14/1205:09>
I think processing power is one of the few things that is not in short supply in the year 2070   ;D
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-19-14/2309:55>
You can have a billion gigahertz (or whatever) processor, but if you don't have the right code, all it's going to do is waste cycles really frickin' fast.  Speed is great, but brains and planning will always trump it.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Wavefire on <09-20-14/0504:56>
So we have basically designed a flying camera that is virtually impossible to detect, will return to your hand (saves nuyen) and with a few seconds of processing and a probably legal video editing program will give you a 360, 3D map of the compound you want to raid. And given it the catchy name of the Camerang! I may have been wasting my Throwing skill on grenades and knives, Camerang is where it's at!
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-20-14/0533:53>
... um, actually we're talking about the RenrakuAustralia product, the BoomerEye (p. 24, Run & Gun), and what could be done with it.  Boomerangs do make a very distinctive, and moderately loud, noise all on their own - you'd be counting on the individual to not recognize what the hell the sound is, and the light levels to be low enough that the BoomerEye goes unspotted during its two-Turn flight.  So the goal is for it to go effectively unidentified, if not effectively unnoticed.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Wavefire on <09-20-14/0543:01>
... um, actually we're talking about the RenrakuAustralia product, the BoomerEye (p. 24, Run & Gun), and what could be done with it.  Boomerangs do make a very distinctive, and moderately loud, noise all on their own - you'd be counting on the individual to not recognize what the hell the sound is, and the light levels to be low enough that the BoomerEye goes unspotted during its two-Turn flight.  So the goal is for it to go effectively unidentified, if not effectively unnoticed.

And here I thought we were being brilliant and innovative. :(

Never having thrown a boomerang how loud would you classify the sound as being? Foot steps, whisper, speech, louder or quieter?
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-20-14/0711:13>
Go out to a Little League baseball field.  Stand on the pitcher's mound while someone you really, really trust stands at home plate throws baseball bats past you at a distance of five or ten feet; that's what it sounds like at a distance of maybe twenty or thirty feet, because it's doing lots of work using the muscle energy that went into spinning it into rules-lawyering a loophole about pressure differentials into convincing the GM of RL into keeping it aloft.

Somewhere between a silenced and a standard gunshot, I guess.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: MrGray on <09-20-14/1906:35>
if it was me I would get thrown to 5 and the concentration in aerodynamic 2 and improvisation weapon 2
anything throw able becomes a weapon
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The other Bandit on <09-21-14/0934:28>
Movie silenced gunshot or real life silenced gunshot?
If the former yeah ok if the latter... damn loud boomerang!
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-21-14/2206:10>
Consider the lowly helicopter.  Consider the incredibly loud 'eggbeater' sound it makes, flying through the air.  The helicopter utilizes the exact same methodology to fly as a boomerang does; the only differences are that the boomerang is both smaller and not motorized.  You're dealing with an item with a blade that's often what, a foot long, two to three inches wide, and up to an inch thick?

It's not gonna be silent.  Like I said, go out and have someone throw baseball bats past you.  Or better yet, go out and learn how to throw a boomerang, and see for yourself.  They aren't loud, but they sure as hell aren't silent.
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Reaver on <09-21-14/2247:52>
With no back ground noise, its not hard to miss.....
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Xenon on <09-22-14/0136:35>
http://soundbible.com/746-Boomerang-Toss.html
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <09-22-14/1205:47>
An interesting sound, but I think pretty clearly made up.  If I had a decent network, I could find a YouTube video that had a good sound ...
Title: Re: Shuriken and their cost effectiveness
Post by: Shaidar on <10-29-14/1820:37>
How about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWeXe_-6twE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWeXe_-6twE)