Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Errata => Topic started by: Kincaid on <09-23-14/1816:38>
-
Run & Gun errata is up.
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2014/09/run-gun-and-street-grimoire-errata-is-happening-now/
As mentioned in the blurb, it's a living document. It's also worth noting that a distinction is made between FAQ issues and errata. So whether or not a light pistol can take a side mount is something for the FAQ; a wholesale change to repair costs is errata.
-
I like the buff to PI-Tac. Level 1 can actually be gotten at chargen. Level 2 is reasonably priced to be able to actually obtained during play, and Level 3 is kind of out there, but that's for Prime Runners anyway.
I like the new ammo types, and the removal of the weird complex burst fire rules on some guns.
Sadly, the Mono Sword's stats are still the same. For only being 100¥ cheaper then a katana but 2 accuracy worse, that makes the Monofilament Sword a no brainer. No brainer as in, you'd have to have no brain to buy one when you can get a katana. I was kind of hoping they'd at least give it better armor pen or something.
-
Finally ammo costs for flamethrower ammo! Shame it's unobtainable during character creation. And yeah holy crap, PI-Tacs can actually be feasibly acquired now. That's great news.
-
Thank you for the errata sheets. Will these be worked into the pdfs as a downloadable update at some point in the future?
-
Thank you for the errata sheets. Will these be worked into the pdfs as a downloadable update at some point in the future?
I honestly don't know. I'll send the question up the flagpole. Since errata is a living document, it may be tricky to update the texts with each iteration.
-
Thank you for the update, however:
Gyrojets! The listed affects and availability for the ammunition is wrong. They read like Stick-N-Shock (electric damage), but the standard gyrojet is an explosive round (which seems to be factored into the damage code for the gun). Also, the availability of the gun is only 12, but at 14 availability I can't even start with any ammo.
Also, why can't you bring in the alternate gyrojet ammos? There's only like two mentioned: Gyrojet Plus, which is an armor-piercing round, and Gyrojet trackers. It's a simple matter to plug it back in, just make them a higher availability.
-
It seems weird that they took the time to write in 'whoops, we forgot gyrojet rounds' then went through all the special ammo actions and went 'there are no gyrojet rounds in the book, so remove it from this list!'
-
The gyrojet being obtainable but its ammo not being is a little funny, but it's the same way with flamethrowers and the Thunderstruck (as it requires a solid projectile and a laser energy pack). Oh wait, they changed the Thunderstruck to something more expected.
Ah, and they changed the Shadow Block example, removing any uncertainty I had about Dodge being unable to be used on ranged attacks.
Can someone explain how Bull's Eye Double Tap works now? If I'm using a Cavalier Deputy with APDS, it has -5 AP, would it increase it's AP to -8? Wanna make sure I've got it right.
-
Can someone explain how Bull's Eye Double Tap works now? If I'm using a Cavalier Deputy with APDS, it has -5 AP, would it increase it's AP to -8? Wanna make sure I've got it right.
I can see it being read -7 or -8. I think maybe -7 is intended? (-1 x 3) + (-4) I can easily see how it could be read as a separate increase added to the base AP. I guess the way I see it is, what would happen if you just fired one bullet (like a regular SA or SS shot)? It would be (-1 x 1) + (-4) or -5 as would be expected. I dunno, it harkens back to the question about the Improved Ability maximum cap.
-
Can someone explain how Bull's Eye Double Tap works now? If I'm using a Cavalier Deputy with APDS, it has -5 AP, would it increase it's AP to -8? Wanna make sure I've got it right.
Sadly, the Bullseye doubletap does not match the Missions FAQ correction. But the way it works is like this.
According to Errata Cavalier Deputy has a base AP of -1. If you fire a doubletap, you can add an increase to the AP equal to base AP (-1) multiplied by the number of bullets (x2) up to a maximum modifier of 3x base AP. So, -1 AP base + -2 additional AP = -3 AP, which is 3x the base. Then you add in the additional -4 from APDS, for a total of -7.
According to Missions FAQ, which I like better, is that the base AP (-1) is increased to Base AP x number of bullets (2), to a base of -2, then you add in the additional -4 for APDS for a total of -6.
I still think the penalty for the shot should be higher though, and use a higher penalty in my games,
[EDIT] Hmm, after reading it again, it still sounds like with a 3 round burst, you would increase the base AP by APxBullets, to a total of APx4. It says "with a maximum modifier of x3, but it doesn't clarify if that is the maximum modifier that gets added to the base AP, or if that is the maximum modifier of the total. Yeah, still badly written.
-
I say this simply as someone reading the errata document who didn't submit anything related to the Bulls-eye Double Tap, but I read it as being the same as the Missions FAQ. (Base Weapon AP)(Number of Bullets) with a max value for (Number of Bullets) of 3. Ammunition-related AP would be added after the fact. So the head shot I did on the earth elemental last weekend in the CMP with my Ranger Arms for -19 AP would still work. (-5)(3)-4.
-
Bulls-Eye Double-Tap/Burst still completely invalidates the purpose of the Thunderstruck. I wonder if this is intended?
-
Well, you do get a -4 on the dice roll with the called shot.
-
Thank you for the errata sheets. Will these be worked into the pdfs as a downloadable update at some point in the future?
I honestly don't know. I'll send the question up the flagpole. Since errata is a living document, it may be tricky to update the texts with each iteration.
Much appreciated...really nice to see this document and the updated status on SG. I'm guessing they will incorporate the errata into the PDFs at some point, but likely not less than annual intervals (ie core rulebook). Would love to see them more often, but suspect simply not the resources to update very often.
-
Well, you do get a -4 on the dice roll with the called shot.
Yeah, to make a Bulls-Eye Double Tap shot with any degree of reliability using a sniper rifle, my character needs to use Edge, which obviously limits things. If we're talking about snipers who can drop four dice without concern (so probably a starting pool of 20+), we're getting fairly niche. There's also the issue of action economy, which really cannot be overstated. Snipers need to spend a Complex Action to pull this off while Halo troopers can use a Standard.
Updated pdfs will happen and will also incorporate things like typos, which will almost assuredly involve some extra layout work (I'm assuming). With other things in the pipeline, the TLDR answer would be, "Yes, but not next week."
-
Well, you do get a -4 on the dice roll with the called shot.
In my game, I've Increased the penalty to -10 to balance the sheer power and abusability of this called shot. The moment people see this potential, their next karma expenditure is for Strive for Perfection if the gm will allow Kt. Or the people who already took Strive (which wasn't so cheesy with only the original -4 called shots) now begin to invalidate just about any heavily armored target; vehicle, mil-spec, etc., in the game. There's no need to struggle to find an assault cannon or Gauss rifle any more.
-
Yeah... My GM allows Strive For Perfection and Sharpshooter to be combined, making there no penalty when you use this action. I almost feel sorry for him if he tries to make a big tough enemy only to have the sniper on our team hit it with a -16 AP shot as a simple action (burst fire sniper rifles ftw I guess). Though honestly 4 less dice wouldn't make much of a difference... Just being able to do something with that much AP is crazy.
-4 does seem weirdly small. Shooting someone in the groin is -10, but hitting your own bullet hole mid-burst before it has even been made is only -4.
-
In Seattle 2070+ apparently the groin shot constitutes a smaller target. ;)
too much steroids in the soycaf? :P
-
We'll you know, sometimes the knife slips in surgery...
-
Updated pdfs will happen and will also incorporate things like typos, which will almost assuredly involve some extra layout work (I'm assuming).
You are correct, updating the books (including the PDFs) involves sending the whole thing through Layout again. That's why we don't do it until we're ready to send a book out for a reprint.
-
From my own military experience it is a lot easier (relatively speaking) to put three rounds in one spot than it is to precisely hit a particular spot on the human body. The former is basically a matter controlling your breathing, posture and trigger pull to put multiple bullets in the same place while the latter requires experience with windage, elevation, trajectories, environmental conditions, etc.
-
The Pulse Weave (p. 84) should not have a rating, as it's only a built-in flash pack.
-
@Kincaid and PeterSmith - thanks for confirming guys ;)
-
From my own military experience it is a lot easier (relatively speaking) to put three rounds in one spot than it is to precisely hit a particular spot on the human body. The former is basically a matter controlling your breathing, posture and trigger pull to put multiple bullets in the same place while the latter requires experience with windage, elevation, trajectories, environmental conditions, etc.
Alright, fair enough. o:
-
The Pulse Weave (p. 84) should not have a rating, as it's only a built-in flash pack.
Check the stat block on p. 85. The rating tells you the number of charges. But that just makes it a really fragging expensive flash-pak.
-
The Pulse Weave (p. 84) should not have a rating, as it's only a built-in flash pack.
Check the stat block on p. 85. The rating tells you the number of charges. But that just makes it a really fragging expensive flash-pak.
I stand corrected. Somehow I read over this part of the rules block. Thanks for the clarification.
-
Maybe this was posted somewhere before (or maybe it isn't errata at all), but I was wondering if anyone knew which of the Multiple Opponent Defense benefits La Verdadera Destreza grants. I'm leaning towards the Friends in Melee benefit since it's a melee weapon style, but I wasn't sure. Thoughts?
-
P. 20, EXOTIC MELEE WEAPONS ADDITION
Chakram fighting is provided as a martial art, but stats for the chakram are not in the book. Here are the stats:
Chakram Acc 4, Reach —, DV (STR)P, Avail 8R, Cost 750¥, use Shuriken range and Skill Exotic Melee Weapon (Chakram)
So uh, why does an exotic melee weapon have a range? Do you just use your melee skill to throw it too? and can use it in melee too?
Or perhaps why does a throwing weapon (which a Chakram is supposed to be) not have an accuracy based off of physical limit? And why is it twice the availability of a throwing knife shuriken, 30 times the price with less damage output? I suppose the price/avail could be chalked up to being exotic and hard to find…
P. 20, COUGAR FINEBLADE STAT CHANGES
For both the Short and Long blades, increase the Accuracy to 7.
This is a nice start but does anyone here think it's worth using one of these over a combat knife even with the change? Anyone? The Longblade has one more DV and ACC but 2 less AP at 2x Price and the Shortblade has only 1 more ACC and 2 less AP for +50¥ price.
-
P. 20, EXOTIC MELEE WEAPONS ADDITION
Chakram fighting is provided as a martial art, but stats for the chakram are not in the book. Here are the stats:
Chakram Acc 4, Reach —, DV (STR)P, Avail 8R, Cost 750¥, use Shuriken range and Skill Exotic Melee Weapon (Chakram)
So uh, why does an exotic melee weapon have a range?
Because Chakrams are melee weapons that can also be thrown. See Xena.
-
Because Chakrams are melee weapons that can also be thrown. See Xena.
Right. By that same logic I should say any inconsistency in setting and weaponry is because a wizard did it, See Lucy Lawless in the Simpsons. Also I should believe Lucy Lawless can fly (but not Xena).
Point is the Chakar/Chakram is a ranged throwing weapon, but somehow uses melee stats and accuracy. It's kinda like how the tomahawk in RnG is a ranged weapon but can also be used in melee, but only uses physical limit for accuracy (thus making it potentially one of the best melee weapon available since its accuracy is physical limit +1). Nevermind the details like the fact that a Chakram, historically said to have the ability to sever a limb, has less damage output and armor penetration than a shuriken, a weapon historically designed for distraction and impediment
-
Because Chakrams are melee weapons that can also be thrown. See Xena.
Right. By that same logic I should say any inconsistency in setting and weaponry is because a wizard did it, See Lucy Lawless in the Simpsons. Also I should believe Lucy Lawless can fly (but not Xena).
Point is the Chakar/Chakram is a ranged throwing weapon, but somehow uses melee stats and accuracy. It's kinda like how the tomahawk in RnG is a ranged weapon but can also be used in melee, but only uses physical limit for accuracy (thus making it potentially one of the best melee weapon available since its accuracy is physical limit +1). Nevermind the details like the fact that a Chakram, historically said to have the ability to sever a limb, has less damage output and armor penetration than a shuriken, a weapon historically designed for distraction and impediment
All the melee weapons are messed up, it seems new entries are no exception. However, to play devil's advocate, the amount of future tech going into these things is pretty awesome. Dikote is a 'standard' feature on all melee weapons since 4th edition, or so I hear. The question is not what a 15th century shuriken can do, but what can a mono-wire sharp, diamond coated, smartlink-enhanced, 21st century shuriken do? Compared to a chakram which has had notably less popular appeal, and therefore less (or no) high tech R&D?
Yes, I'm suggesting that shadowrun shuriken can sever limbs.
-
A shuriken in Shadowrun can sever limbs, sure, not only from the tech used to make it but the literally inhuman strength it will often be thrown with. But a chakram should still do more. The R&D mentioned wouldn't really need to be specifically for chakram. They'd benefit from the same stuff everything else would. If throwing knives, swords, and shuriken can have that stuff, a chakram could too. It'd just be harder to find, but that's what Availability and Cost are for.
-
A shuriken in Shadowrun can sever limbs, sure, not only from the tech used to make it but the literally inhuman strength it will often be thrown with. But a chakram should still do more. The R&D mentioned wouldn't really need to be specifically for chakram. They'd benefit from the same stuff everything else would. If throwing knives, swords, and shuriken can have that stuff, a chakram could too. It'd just be harder to find, but that's what Availability and Cost are for.
The point is that there is more leeway to justify what would otherwise be an absurd contrast. Chakram -could- be heat seeking whirling mono - edged gyroscopic vibro sawblades, or they could be sharpened dinner plates. Both are well within the spectrum of the setting. It's a question of how many tech dollars goes into them, and apparently the answer is "not many."
I encourage you to stat up the aforementioned whirling death circle and use that instead.
-
All the melee weapons are messed up, it seems new entries are no exception. However, to play devil's advocate, the amount of future tech going into these things is pretty awesome. Dikote is a 'standard' feature on all melee weapons since 4th edition, or so I hear. The question is not what a 15th century shuriken can do, but what can a mono-wire sharp, diamond coated, smartlink-enhanced, 21st century shuriken do? Compared to a chakram which has had notably less popular appeal, and therefore less (or no) high tech R&D?
Yes, I'm suggesting that shadowrun shuriken can sever limbs.
Ah, but who says chakrams would have less popular appeal? I mean, India is still one of the most populous countries in the world in Shadowrun, last I checked (over a billion as per the Sixth World Almanac); that's where chakrams originate. It seems they should have a nice demand going on (unless Indians got with the times and stuck to shooting guns at the silly people running around chucking sharp bits of metal).
-
I encourage you to stat up the aforementioned whirling death circle and use that instead.
I'd probably go with...
Chakram Acc (Physical), Reach —, DV (STR+2)P, AP -1 Avail 10R, Cost 900¥
Essentially, similar to the Tomahawk but a bit less accurate while having farther range (due to still using shuriken ranges). It's also more expensive because it's just blatantly uncommon, at least in North America.
Personally I think both this and the tomahawk should have separate accuracy ratings for use in melee-- I'd give the tomahawk a 5 and keep this with 4.
Ah, but who says chakrams would have less popular appeal? I mean, India is still one of the most populous countries in the world in Shadowrun, last I checked (over a billion as per the Sixth World Almanac); that's where chakrams originate. It seems they should have a nice demand going on (unless Indians got with the times and stuck to shooting guns at the silly people running around chucking sharp bits of metal).
Never underestimate the influence of adepts going medieval (or the equivalent) on popular culture. I mean swords and junk are popular now in real life, without people still actually using them.
-
Regarding Armor mods:
The Core Rulebook armor mods are rating 1-6 unless otherwise stated, and take up capacity equal to rating. Fresnal Fabric, Pulse Weave (in errata), Universal Mirror Material (per sq meter? How does that work in an armor mod!) and Radiation Shielding have cost per rating, but don't state their max rating, and most have a fixed capacity regardless of rating. Should their rating be 1-6 as per Core Rulebook armor mods? I must admit it doesn't seem balanced to me for them to not have capacity related to rating, I'm not sure money is a sufficiently rare resource, especially at the levels given.
I think I'd suggest those not given are rating 1-6, and that rating is used as the capacity (maybe x2 for ruthenium coating).
Does that seem right, or is it all covered somewhere and I haven't noticed?
Is Universal Mirror Material as extreme as it seems to me? The way it reads, you could wrap your deck in rating 6 stuff and anyone attacking you gets -6 noise penalty but you get no penalty? The mention in the text says you can decide in which direction you want to block the wireless signal. Given most wireless access would work in two directions I'd suggest that the noise should also work both ways, much as I would love a decker immune from matrix attack!
-
For some things it just might not matter at which rating they are installed.
And the ratings may go from 1-6, see p. 437 CRB:
Armor modifications have variable Capacity costs. Each modification also has a rating between 1 and 6, except as noted.
So we have only Ruthenium polymer given with an exception of Rating 1-4, but still a fixed capacity cost regardless of rating.
If you want to use own rulings, you can do so, but to me the RAW seems clear.