Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Poindexter on <09-28-14/1728:57>
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Say I dont have a control rig and dont ever intend to jump into anything.
Can I still buy a RCC and use it as my commlink, mainly for the ability to use one autosoft on multiple drones?
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Sure.
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Absolutely. You don't need a datajack to operate a cyberdeck; it's the same concept.
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It (the RCC) also let you send message to multiple drones auto pilots as one simple action.
Control rig is mostly for vehicle riggers. Drones being as fragile as they are, jumping into one is actually pretty dangerous. A dedicated rigger would probably get a control rig and skills to support both vehicle rigging and controlling drones...
If you only command the auto pilot to take the actions for you then you don't really need to invest into various skills either. Nothing but resources that stop a magician or street samurai to also be a drone rigger on the side.
If you only order around one or two drone(s) then you might as well just use your regular commlink... (everyone should probably do this, no matter what role you play - drones offer a lot of utility and support).
(You still need the skills if you want to actually remote control the drone -jumped in or not-; but I would leave that for your dedicated rigger...)
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If you only command the auto pilot to take the actions for you then you don't really need to invest into various skills either. Nothing but resources that stop a magician or street samurai to also be a drone rigger on the side.
That's exactly what im thinking. Basically, All i'll need skillwise is armorer to mod them myself and Electronic warfare for making perception tests using their sensors, right?
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Hardware skill if you want to be able to repair Matrix damage yourself.
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If you only command the auto pilot to take the actions for you then you don't really need to invest into various skills either. Nothing but resources that stop a magician or street samurai to also be a drone rigger on the side.
That's exactly what im thinking. Basically, All i'll need skillwise is armorer to mod them myself and Electronic warfare for making perception tests using their sensors, right?
Like Jim said, Hardware is good too. Electronic Warfare is also used to reduce noise through an RCC. You may also want to consider picking up a few ranks in Computer for Matrix Perception.
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If you only command the auto pilot to take the actions for you then you don't really need to invest into various skills either. Nothing but resources that stop a magician or street samurai to also be a drone rigger on the side.
That's exactly what im thinking. Basically, All i'll need skillwise is armorer to mod them myself and Electronic warfare for making perception tests using their sensors, right?
Like Jim said, Hardware is good too. Electronic Warfare is also used to reduce noise through an RCC. You may also want to consider picking up a few ranks in Computer for Matrix Perception.
I don't think I've ever made a character who didn't have a couple ranks in computer.
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...and Electronic warfare for making perception tests using their sensors...
They make their own perception tests using their own sensors and the clearsight (or electronic warfare) autosoft that either run on the drone or is being shared from your RCC.
You only use your own skills if you actually remote control your drones
Electronic Warfare is also used to reduce noise through an RCC.
There is no test involved when sending messages to the auto pilot ;)
Noise basically only affect you if you want to remote control your drones via the matrix using your own initiative and skills....
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I don't think I've ever made a character who didn't have a couple ranks in computer.
I have. What use is Computer when you lack the Logic to even be able to properly perform a datasearch? Easier to just call up a contact then.
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I don't think I've ever made a character who didn't have a couple ranks in computer.
I have. What use is Computer when you lack the Logic to even be able to properly perform a datasearch? Easier to just call up a contact then.
Flavour? Teamwork tests?
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*shrugs* Adding a single die to their roll shouldn't really make a difference, and there's so many things I can shoot during the hours the Deckers are looking up information. I'd rather use my karma where it matters: Cash and survival.
Besides, it's rather plausible to not know a thing about Computers, plenty of people like that already, who can check their websites and that's that.
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*shrugs*
And some of us like having character who aren't virtually computer illiterate. Your point about different play styles is once again noted; you'll note that not everyone shares your preferences. Cash and survival isn't the only things that matter for everyone, after all.
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*shrugs*
And some of us like having character who aren't virtually computer illiterate. Your point about different play styles is once again noted; you'll note that not everyone shares your preferences. Cash and survival isn't the only things that matter for everyone, after all.
And some of us like being polite about having a difference in personal preferences. My characters having 2 dice instead of 4 doesn't make them "virtually computer illiterate" - there is a massive gap between Untrained and Unaware.
My Missions magician doesn't need any ranks in Computer - instead of trying a Data Search, he just asks the Horizon P2.0 doohickey he got for info. Meanwhile, my regular character, in addition to calling up her contacts (which adds flavor) more often since she can't Data Search for information, is more of a pen-and-paper person: her tendency to print important files and store them in a filing cabinet rather than on her commlink has actually added flavor at some point in our campaign when it was still 4th edition, because Erased doesn't affect ink.
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Well, given how my posts, which explained why I wouldn't necessarily take Computer on some of my character builds, was in reply to someone else noting they always take Computer... Yeah, I already noted not everyone shares the opinion of not taking a few ranks Computer on a Street sam. :) After all, that's what sparked the discussion in the first place. ;D
Anyway, I'm just noting that from my own perspective, I wouldn't contribute much with it so I'd instead take something that increases my tactical options or plays into an attribute I have on a decent level. At 5 Charisma taking a single point of Negotiation or Intimidation would be better, or driving at 8 Reaction, or Lockpicking and Throwing Weapons at 9 Agility, so if I have to leave out a low-rank skill, it'd be something working on that 2 Logic.
Yes, flavour and teamwork tests are valid arguments, but I think there's better ways for me personally to contribute to a group. Nothing wrong with other people making a different call, which is why I used a casual shrug rather than trying to logically debunk the argument. But I rather like having a weakness or two on my Street Samurai, with a complete lack of knowledge on how to properly search for info in the matrix and having to call up my contacts or depend on the Decker for all intel. It's something that's fun to play out as well.
Anyway, ZeConster, I already had a private convo with him and we both read rudeness into statements where none was intended, so it's all good. :) It's just the language barrier playing up.
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I don't think I've ever made a character who didn't have a couple ranks in computer.
I have. What use is Computer when you lack the Logic to even be able to properly perform a datasearch? Easier to just call up a contact then.
I just figure the world is so infested with them at nearly every turn that there's a ton of computer related stuff that you dont even make rolls for, stuff that just requires a basic level of competency. The one point i throw into computers represents that basic level of competency.
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Basic levels of competency with a skill are 0. That's your average Joe Wageslave's skill with anything that they aren't trained to do. That includes driving, shooting, running, climbing, etc. If Joe Wageslave played baseball as a kid, he might have a point or two in Clubs and/or Athletics. But generally, unless it's part of Joe Wageslave's job or daily routine, it's going to be well below the 3 points that most people consider to be "standard." Just look at shadowrunners for instance. As PCs, the characters are expected to be better than your average Joe Wageslave. But there are never enough skill points to give you 3 in everything. So 0 is really the average, because most people are untrained at everything.
Computers for instance, handle damn near everything for you - why would Joe Wageslave need to know how to use it beyond turning it on and using a word processor and email? Having worked in IT support for a number of large companies, it's still amazing to me how many top-level folks haven't a clue about how their computer works. They know what button to press to turn it on, and how to do their job. Anything outside those confines (and sometimes within those confines) requires a call to IT.
So to me, an average user has a 0 in Computer. Maybe 1 or 2. But that's it, unless the person is using their computer all day every day. I know a number of programmers for instance that, despite them knowing a LOT about programming, have no idea how to utilize and manipulate the Windows registry. The skills just aren't the same. So I'd say even a professional programmer would be fortunate to have a Computer skill of 2. It's just not something most people need to know beyond the basics.
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I have a question. Just how many programs can an RCC run at the same time? I know the limit of programs that you can run simultaneously for drones is equal to your device rating - noise reduction level you currently have set. If I am running programs like Virtual Machine, Toolbox or Signal Scrub that are not shared would these programs count against my sharing limit or would the device rating of the RCC be the limiter.
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<Computer Stuff>
I think the main consideration for the Computer Skill is how closely the GM adheres to the book rules. I've seen a lot of GMs handwave the first information tier (General Knowledge or Public) so that anyone with a commlink can pretty much get that without fail. If they adhere strictly to the table and the rest of the matrix rules, it starts to get a little dicey on whether you can find basic information at all with a Computer Skill of 0.
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<Computer Stuff>
I think the main consideration for the Computer Skill is how closely the GM adheres to the book rules. I've seen a lot of GMs handwave the first information tier (General Knowledge or Public) so that anyone with a commlink can pretty much get that without fail. If they adhere strictly to the table and the rest of the matrix rules, it starts to get a little dicey on whether you can find basic information at all with a Computer Skill of 0.
To be fair, most people can't reliably find General Knowledge or Public information if they're looking for a specific topic. (Like Namikaze, I have some IT-support experience. Googling is a skill a lot of people lack.) So having 0 computer skill does make sense for a lot of characters. If that means they can't always find stuff they need, that's realistic. As a runner, I'd like to have some computer skill since my life may depend on it, but it's a valid choice not to.
I have a question. Just how many programs can an RCC run at the same time? I know the limit of programs that you can run simultaneously for drones is equal to your device rating - noise reduction level you currently have set. If I am running programs like Virtual Machine, Toolbox or Signal Scrub that are not shared would these programs count against my sharing limit or would the device rating of the RCC be the limiter.
I think the RCC rules overcomplicate things with their description. Simplified:
- You can run a number of programs equal to your device rating.
- You can also use one or more of those program slots for noise reduction at 1 per slot used.
- You can also run autosofts in those program slots, sharing them to all slaved drone.s
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That's pretty much how I read it too. Thanks.
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Would it be game breaking to assume that the commlink has an Assistant (a la Siri or Now) that functions like an Agent with a total dice pool equal to the DR of the commlink (NOT 2*DR) for Matrix Search (and maybe Edit File for protecting your files on the device)? It just seems odd that with the existence of Agents in SR and such assistants today, they wouldn't be a potent feature of 2070's commlinks.
I've not used this in a game as the thought just occurred to me after following this discussion, so it might be totally unbalancing - I'm just putting it out there.
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Game breaking, no, but I really don't see the point for it. If you want to use a 'search agent', take P2.0 as contact at 3 Connection and let it search info for you. Or you would just use a mapsoft/shopsoft instead.
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The problem with using a Commlink to auto-pilot a data search is that you cannot use cyber programs or agents. The common cyber programs actually cut Matrix searches in half in terms of time. The Agents will do it for you if their rating is a comparable skill to the PC. A basic commlink doing a Matrix Search is limited to it's device rating for a dice pool.
So, if you're looking for the nearest Stuffer Shack in a city you never been in and you have a Trans Avalon (DR6), you're rolling 6d6 [Data Processing] against a threshold 1 or 2. But if you're looking for detailed information on someone's background, Siri or Cortana is more than likely going to fail to get the info you need.
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The nearest Stuffershack sounds like something a mapsoft, which includes business listings, could tell you. Since they auto-update with GridGuide, the data won't be out of date either.
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To be fair, most people can't reliably find General Knowledge or Public information if they're looking for a specific topic. (Like Namikaze, I have some IT-support experience. Googling is a skill a lot of people lack.) So having 0 computer skill does make sense for a lot of characters. If that means they can't always find stuff they need, that's realistic. As a runner, I'd like to have some computer skill since my life may depend on it, but it's a valid choice not to.
I work in a research library at a highly-ranked university (ironically, ranked #1 for Computer Science) and I'm no longer surprised when a reference question is answered by the first hit on Google. Computer 0 is very understandable to me.
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To be fair, most people can't reliably find General Knowledge or Public information if they're looking for a specific topic. (Like Namikaze, I have some IT-support experience. Googling is a skill a lot of people lack.) So having 0 computer skill does make sense for a lot of characters. If that means they can't always find stuff they need, that's realistic. As a runner, I'd like to have some computer skill since my life may depend on it, but it's a valid choice not to.
I work in a research library at a highly-ranked university (ironically, ranked #1 for Computer Science) and I'm no longer surprised when a reference question is answered by the first hit on Google. Computer 0 is very understandable to me.
Agreed 100%.
However, these are "most people", yall are talkin bout, right? "Most people" aint shadowrunners. Runners are supposed to be a cut above the wageslaves who can't remember to google something before asking someone for help. Am i right?
For me, 1 rank in computer is like 1 rank in con. I'm creating a professional criminal here. There's a certain basic skillset I ought to have. But all this is just my personal feel on the whole thing.
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For both my Computer 0 characters, having Computer 0 fits their character.
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For me I never have too many skill points. I'm not going to spend a point in Computer unless it fits with the character concept I am going for. So most of my characters will not have any skill in computer.
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For me, computer is a nice skill to have on any character I can afford it on. If I'm taking skills at c or lower, it generally gets left out, but for a log3 char, computer 1(datasearch+2) is pretty nice, especially when combined with hot sim. 8 dice isn't amazing, but it's enough to look at getting two hits on average which is fine for finding basic stuff out.
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For me, computer is a nice skill to have on any character I can afford it on. If I'm taking skills at c or lower, it generally gets left out, but for a log3 char, computer 1(datasearch+2) is pretty nice, especially when combined with hot sim. 8 dice isn't amazing, but it's enough to look at getting two hits on average which is fine for finding basic stuff out.
You use Hot Sim as a non-hacker when searching stuff with a commlink?
That's, er,
Brave.
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Why is it? There's no biofeedback for failing a search test. It's practically two free dice
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Why is it? There's no biofeedback for failing a search test. It's practically two free dice
No, but there'll be biofeedback when some opposing hacker manages to find you plugged into hot-sim and decides to fry your brain. Either because he's a hacker for the other side (whatever that may be, but you're on a run so there's probably at least one) or a random hacker doing it for the lulz. And you'd have no meaningful defence against anyone trying.
It wouldn't be an issue most of the time, of course, but it will become an issue one day and it'll end in your death.
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Why is it? There's no biofeedback for failing a search test. It's practically two free dice
No, but there'll be biofeedback when some opposing hacker manages to find you plugged into hot-sim and decides to fry your brain. Either because he's a hacker for the other side (whatever that may be, but you're on a run so there's probably at least one) or a random hacker doing it for the lulz. And you'd have no meaningful defence against anyone trying.
It wouldn't be an issue most of the time, of course, but it will become an issue one day and it'll end in your death.
Aren't hacker supposed to be incredibly rare now we're in 5th ed?
why would they risk GOD's intervention for launching cybercombat against someone who's just searching the matrix for information on a company or spell formulae?
as I understand it, you can always use full matrix defence, which gives a pretty decent dicepool against anyone who isn't super kitted for cybercombat.
I dunno, maybe your GM is more harsh on you than I am on my players. I'd just make my players roll for hot-sim addiction rather than trying to hose their brains for doing data searches
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I dunno, maybe your GM is more harsh on you than I am on my players. I'd just make my players roll for hot-sim addiction rather than trying to hose their brains for doing data searches
'Oi! Player interpretation there, not fueled by actual game experience. Careful Top Dog, you give me a bad name.
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I dunno, maybe your GM is more harsh on you than I am on my players. I'd just make my players roll for hot-sim addiction rather than trying to hose their brains for doing data searches
'Oi! Player interpretation there, not fueled by actual game experience. Careful Top Dog, you give me a bad name.
More "Evil GM interpretation". It's what I'd do if someone blatantly uses hot sim all the time as a (relative) computer nublet. Well probably something milder first, just to let them know it's dangerous.
Not saying you can never use hot sim, mind you - but it comes with danger, and using it to search for run-specific things can end up badly if someone's paying attention. Of course not every innocent search will end with someone frying your brain, but hey, one search on the wrong topic in the wrong place can be enough.
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I dunno, maybe your GM is more harsh on you than I am on my players. I'd just make my players roll for hot-sim addiction rather than trying to hose their brains for doing data searches
'Oi! Player interpretation there, not fueled by actual game experience. Careful Top Dog, you give me a bad name.
More "Evil GM interpretation". It's what I'd do if someone blatantly uses hot sim all the time as a (relative) computer nublet. Well probably something milder first, just to let them know it's dangerous.
Not saying you can never use hot sim, mind you - but it comes with danger, and using it to search for run-specific things can end up badly if someone's paying attention. Of course not every innocent search will end with someone frying your brain, but hey, one search on the wrong topic in the wrong place can be enough.
Well, yeah, this is shadowrun after all :-) Its like sending your face into a mafia bar to dig out dirt on the big boss man. someone would notice and beat shit out of you.
thankfully, with a dicepool of 8, you just can't search for anything restricted or hidden, its just not possible with that dicepool.
It'll find you basic stuff though; articles, blogs, social media pages etc. probably nothing that's gonna get you killed but stuff that may be useful in the long run.
Hot-sim's main danger to the basic user is that it is addictive. that is something that I would be enforcing
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I dunno, maybe your GM is more harsh on you than I am on my players. I'd just make my players roll for hot-sim addiction rather than trying to hose their brains for doing data searches
'Oi! Player interpretation there, not fueled by actual game experience. Careful Top Dog, you give me a bad name.
More "Evil GM interpretation". It's what I'd do if someone blatantly uses hot sim all the time as a (relative) computer nublet. Well probably something milder first, just to let them know it's dangerous.
Not saying you can never use hot sim, mind you - but it comes with danger, and using it to search for run-specific things can end up badly if someone's paying attention. Of course not every innocent search will end with someone frying your brain, but hey, one search on the wrong topic in the wrong place can be enough.
Well, yeah, this is shadowrun after all :-) Its like sending your face into a mafia bar to dig out dirt on the big boss man. someone would notice and beat shit out of you.
thankfully, with a dicepool of 8, you just can't search for anything restricted or hidden, its just not possible with that dicepool.
It'll find you basic stuff though; articles, blogs, social media pages etc. probably nothing that's gonna get you killed but stuff that may be useful in the long run.
Hot-sim's main danger to the basic user is that it is addictive. that is something that I would be enforcing
exactly why i take computer. i aint trying to dig up hidden files and shit. thats the deckers job. I just wanna know the territory.