Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Rygus Dreg on <10-13-14/2327:17>
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If my mage were to get Titanium bone lacing could it also be a weapon foci?
And if so, then would it only apply to unarmed combat or all combat actions?
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There's nothing in the rules to disallow it. Though it's a bit pink mohawk, if you ask me. Not for every table, basically.
As to its functionality: it would function identically to a weapon focus - it's active when you activate it, and it's inactive when you (or someone else) deactivates it. I would argue that it only applies to unarmed combat though, as the focus has to somehow make contact with the opponent.
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I would think you would have to enchant the Bone Lacing before implanting it in the patient, but other than that I think it would work. Namikaze is spot on with my view of it.
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A weapon foci specifically has to be a melee weapon. While bone lacing modifies your unarmed damage code it is not a weapon in of itself. A pair of knucks on the other hand could be used. That said if you GM signs off on it I say what the heck, letting you do it isn't going to hamper you or give you an unfair advantage that I can see. Just remember that just like a tattooed focus that you would be unable to take it off, hide it, lock it up, etc. Could make certain stealthy or high security situations a bit dicey.
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bone lacing is not a melee weapon
- and your weapon focus (in this case your bones) does normally never connect with your target
cyberspurs, however, would be ok
(but due to the complexity of the processed material used in the focus combined with the fact you need to enchant it before it is installed i'd say it would be quite tricky to accomplish outside of chargen).
knucks would be ok as well (as jim1701 mentioned above).
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Such ideas make me miss Grounding ^^ but yes, unless the bones/knuckles are exposed of course. I feel this is close to the discussion about Cyberlimb focuses
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It can still be deactivated. it just would be very difficult to disenchant.
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Such ideas make me miss Grounding ^^ but yes, unless the bones/knuckles are exposed of course. I feel this is close to the discussion about Cyberlimb focuses
Grounding Hot Potato...mmmmm... .
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If you want cheese, you should get a monofiliment whip weapon focus in a finger compartment and have 1 STR.
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Not possible. Leaving aside how Monofilament Whips aren't on the list of implant weapons, Fingertip Compartments can only contain micro-sized items, and a monofilament whip is definitely bigger than that.
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Not possible. Leaving aside how Monofilament Whips aren't on the list of implant weapons, Fingertip Compartments can only contain micro-sized items, and a monofilament whip is definitely bigger than that.
Actually...
One popular trick is to use a fingertip compartment to hold a monofilament whip (p. 422), with the fingertip acting as control weight. Extending a monofilament whip from a fingertip compartment takes a Simple Action, while spooling it back up requires one Complex Action. There’s no telling how many actions it will take for people to stop being impressed at what just came out of your finger.
The book even says it's possible, so yeah, don't jump the gun on that one.
Edit: Not that he's even going to see this because he has me on ignore, but I guess for posterity's sake.
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If I remember the fluff from past editions correctly, all bone lacing is done with the help of nanites, who cover your bones with a coating of your chosen material.
So it's not quite like the Wolverine - there aren't any titanium rods bolted onto your tibia, that you could engrave and carve to create your focus. :-)
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If I remember the fluff from past editions correctly, all bone lacing is done with the help of nanites, who cover your bones with a coating of your chosen material.
So it's not quite like the Wolverine - there aren't any titanium rods bolted onto your tibia, that you could engrave and carve to create your focus. :-)
Nanotech is out now, however, so they're doing it the old fashioned way, however that was.
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Blowtorchs and much painkillers.
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Blowtorchs and much painkillers.
That seems too expensive. Just knock them out, cut into them, implant, sew back up, and you're done. Probably a lot cheaper IMO.
Unless you mean one of those expensive clinics. Then, yeah.
*Note: This is meant to be in a joking matter.
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If I remember the fluff from past editions correctly, all bone lacing is done with the help of nanites, who cover your bones with a coating of your chosen material.
So it's not quite like the Wolverine - there aren't any titanium rods bolted onto your tibia, that you could engrave and carve to create your focus. :-)
Nanotech is out now, however, so they're doing it the old fashioned way, however that was.
Oh, it was still nanotech - just a 'non-self-directing' sort of nanotech. They were carriers, sensitive to certain magnetic field fluctuations, not pre-programmed to turn left at Albuquerque the way they are 'now'.
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Not possible. Leaving aside how Monofilament Whips aren't on the list of implant weapons, Fingertip Compartments can only contain micro-sized items, and a monofilament whip is definitely bigger than that.
Actually...
One popular trick is to use a fingertip compartment to hold a monofilament whip (p. 422), with the fingertip acting as control weight. Extending a monofilament whip from a fingertip compartment takes a Simple Action, while spooling it back up requires one Complex Action. There’s no telling how many actions it will take for people to stop being impressed at what just came out of your finger.
The book even says it's possible, so yeah, don't jump the gun on that one.
Edit: Not that he's even going to see this because he has me on ignore, but I guess for posterity's sake.
It's interesting. While we don't have size definitions the Monowhip has the same concealability modifier as a holdout pistol.
But this is actually the first time I see it mentioned, that the fingertip compartment wouldn't be possible to combine with the monofilament whip. Although I really like that idea :)
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It's a long coil of wire, even for monofilament wire that sounds plain wrong. But I guess that when the fingertip works as the control weight, it could be possible. I did miss that part when searching the rules for the fingertip.
Is there a reason people keep bringing up their ignore status with me?_? Am I a benchmark now, are you only one of the cool kids if you manage to get on there? Do people who don't know they are still count, or are they considered wannabes because I didn't bother informing them?
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The fingertip compartment source text specifically mentions hiding a monowhip in one as a "popular trick", so it seems a fair assumption that the designers intended for that to be possible. Page 455 of SR5.
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The fingertip compartment source text specifically mentions hiding a monowhip in one as a "popular trick", so it seems a fair assumption that the designers intended for that to be possible. Page 455 of SR5.
a Fingertip compartment was "Shell" for a Monowhip as long as I can remember (SR2)
HougH!
Medicineman
looking down to the Post below
And yeah Michael getting put on your ignore list is turning out to be a right of passage on these forums.
Which I seem to have passed too :D
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Yeah it's pretty cannon cyberpunk since one of the characters in the original collection of William Gibson cyberpunk short stories (Mirrorshades?) that started it all had one.
And yeah Michael getting put on your ignore list is turning out to be a right of passage on these forums.
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Guys, a person's right to ignore people on these forums should be respected. If being ignored is such a big deal, then make amends. If it's not a big deal, then don't bother bringing it up. I can't speak for Michael on this, but I know of at least two times when someone on these forums has bypassed the ignore list by either creating a new account or by using other forms of communication. I can't speak for Michael, but the ignore list is a bit of a godsend - it prevents people from getting into unnecessary flame wars. And I'll admit that I should use it more often with certain people that just get my goat.
Back on topic though: I think this issue had been discussed to death now. Bone lacing cannot be used as a weapon foci at some tables, but the OPs GM might not care. It's not specifically a weapon, so there's a greater-than-even chance that the bone lacing won't be allowed.
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I don't think it's legal inside the RAW for reasons others have pointed out, but if a player had a bunch of money, the right contacts, and the sincere desire to do it, I'd let him find a way, but that's just me as a GM.
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... my lawyer says I should repeat that I had nothing to do with that goat, and hadn't ever even seen it before the inquest.
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... my lawyer says I should repeat that I had nothing to do with that goat, and hadn't ever even seen it before the inquest.
LOL I've never understood the origins of that term, "get my goat." It sounds... well, you summed it up well. :)
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It's a long coil of wire, even for monofilament wire that sounds plain wrong. But I guess that when the fingertip works as the control weight, it could be possible. I did miss that part when searching the rules for the fingertip.
I feel this is one of those old school suspensions of disbelief things that are still there because rule of cool. Monofilament whips in fingertip compartments have been around since first edition and your guess is exactly the explanation given in the flavor text.
And technically, the coil could be tiny. The wire is two meters long and one molecule thick. Depending on how you roll it, it could take up as little as a few molecules in diameter. A mono whip is all grip and weight, the wire doesn't factor in.
Also: This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeO_vuhMM9o)
I always thought ignore lists were aptly named not only because they allow you to ignore people but also because they should be ignored in polite conversation.
Edit: Yeah got sidetracked here. Regarding the OP, according to the missions FAQ you can get basically every focus as a tattoo, which includes weapon foci and opens up a few interesting concepts. Note that they are identifiable as foci on the astral plane unless masked, so it kinda outs you as awakened but that would be true for the bone lacing as well.
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Quick question about the bone foci, what about combining the bone lacing with bone spikes?
Then the bone actually would be making contact so i don't see why it wouldn't work.
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Quick question about the bone foci, what about combining the bone lacing with bone spikes?
Then the bone actually would be making contact so i don't see why it wouldn't work.
Bone spikes aren't in Fifth Edition at the moment. It's iffy for 4th Ed, though.
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Mono-Whip is legal starting equipment as is the finger compartment, which specifically mention it and even gives actions types for deploying and retracting. There is no doubt that is legit, and both RAW and RAI. Further Mono-Weapon foci despite being an abomination in my opinion have also been seen in play. I ran across a PC with one back in 4th Missions. Do i think that's RAI? No. But I do think it not disallowed under RAW.
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Now I am imagining someone with a monowhip in a penile implant, and want to write a short dialogue about a guy who had one until he critglitched and took off his own balls. I hate you all.
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Get+Your+Goat
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Haha!
The actual etymology---to the extent that it's known--is that goats were placed in the stall with a race horse the night prior to the race since it was believed they had a calming effect on the horse. Getting one's goat involved exactly that--stealing a goat in the hopes that it would make the horse jittery and less likely to run well the next day.
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Now I am imagining someone with a monowhip in a penile implant, and want to write a short dialogue about a guy who had one until he critglitched and took off his own balls. I hate you all.
Make for one interesting, and bloody, "helicopter dance".
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Mono-Whip is legal starting equipment as is the finger compartment, which specifically mention it and even gives actions types for deploying and retracting. There is no doubt that is legit, and both RAW and RAI. Further Mono-Weapon foci despite being an abomination in my opinion have also been seen in play. I ran across a PC with one back in 4th Missions. Do i think that's RAI? No. But I do think it not disallowed under RAW.
Forget PC's, I'm pretty sure there have been NPC's with both CyberSpur & MonoWhip as Weapon Foci in published adventures.
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but the ignore list is a bit of a godsend - it prevents people from getting into unnecessary flame wars.
Does it stop you from getting PM's from people too ?
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but the ignore list is a bit of a godsend - it prevents people from getting into unnecessary flame wars.
Does it stop you from getting PM's from people too ?
Yes. Everything except emails and IMs I believe, but those both require you to have those registered to your Shadowgrid account in the first place.
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Mono-Whip is legal starting equipment as is the finger compartment, which specifically mention it and even gives actions types for deploying and retracting. There is no doubt that is legit, and both RAW and RAI. Further Mono-Weapon foci despite being an abomination in my opinion have also been seen in play. I ran across a PC with one back in 4th Missions. Do i think that's RAI? No. But I do think it not disallowed under RAW.
Forget PC's, I'm pretty sure there have been NPC's with both CyberSpur & MonoWhip as Weapon Foci in published adventures.
Why should the writers restrain themselves more than the average player? ;)
Some things that are RAW will be used, because of Rule of Cool, even if they should be hard to pull off. It's in the responsibility of each table to discuss the use of certain elements. But if all agree it's good to go.
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Forget PC's, I'm pretty sure there have been NPC's with both CyberSpur & MonoWhip as Weapon Foci in published adventures.
...but have there ever been NPC's with Bone Lacing Weapon Foci? ;)
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I don't think it's legal inside the RAW for reasons others have pointed out, but if a player had a bunch of money, the right contacts, and the sincere desire to do it, I'd let him find a way, but that's just me as a GM.
I find that THIS is the best approach to just about anything in this game. As the thread goes in the other forums, as a GM of a co-op storytelling game your answer should always be "Yes" -or- you should be rolling dice. I found this terribly difficult to follow in the beginning, but now it seems to work wonders.
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...but have there ever been NPC's with Bone Lacing Weapon Foci? ;)
Newp. Not that I've ever heard of.
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I don't think it's legal inside the RAW for reasons others have pointed out, but if a player had a bunch of money, the right contacts, and the sincere desire to do it, I'd let him find a way, but that's just me as a GM.
I find that THIS is the best approach to just about anything in this game. As the thread goes in the other forums, as a GM of a co-op storytelling game your answer should always be "Yes" -or- you should be rolling dice. I found this terribly difficult to follow in the beginning, but now it seems to work wonders.
Money may be one of the best superpowers (Ironman, Batman :) ), but it shouldn't make things possible that are not supported by the rules or the flavor of the gameworld.
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Money may be one of the best superpowers (Ironman, Batman :) ), but it shouldn't make things possible that are not supported by the rules or the flavor of the gameworld.
See, I feel the group establishes a distinction about how and why they are playing. I've been in SR games that are not based on illegal activities at all, and I've been in games where the game was more like "Second Life" ... and all were fairly amazing experiences.
The rules ... well, to quote Cpt. Barbossa "Their more like guidelines, really." And in the end, you kind of gravitate towards the kind of game that your players want. Sometimes there are going to be situations that pop up that there simply are no rules for. That doesn't mean you're doing it wrong ... just ... different.
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Mechanically speaking you would get the same bonus to skill rating getting a Improved Ability Qi Focus.
| Foci Type | Force | Bonding Cost | Availability | Cost |
| Weapon | 1 | 3 | 4 | 7,000¥ |
| Qi | 2 | 4 | 6 | 6,000¥ |
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Now here's a compromise.
Wouldn't a Shock Hand, as a Melee Weapon, qualify as a Weapon Foci?
And in turn it would do you Bone Lacing damage if you were not using it in its "Shock" capacity but just punching someone.
Not saying its RAI, but it kinda seems to be RAW.
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Money may be one of the best superpowers (Ironman, Batman :) ), but it shouldn't make things possible that are not supported by the rules or the flavor of the gameworld.
See, I feel the group establishes a distinction about how and why they are playing. I've been in SR games that are not based on illegal activities at all, and I've been in games where the game was more like "Second Life" ... and all were fairly amazing experiences.
The rules ... well, to quote Cpt. Barbossa "Their more like guidelines, really." And in the end, you kind of gravitate towards the kind of game that your players want. Sometimes there are going to be situations that pop up that there simply are no rules for. That doesn't mean you're doing it wrong ... just ... different.
The tactic doesn't work for every table, and not every player is following the social contract of "don't try to exploit loopholes". So unfortunately "yes" or "let's roll some dice" isn't the right answer. For example, what would you do if a player demands a Banshee? I am not even exaggerating here, we've had a debate in the past where someone argued that if players wanted a Banshee in chargen, the GM should simply give them the Banshee.
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Forget PC's, I'm pretty sure there have been NPC's with both CyberSpur & MonoWhip as Weapon Foci in published adventures.
I'm far more willing to consider a CyberSpur as a weapon Foci. I don't recall seeing ether, but there a lot books and a lot adventures so I'm sure it could be in there somewhere, if anyone has book/page reference I'd love to read it. I did contemplate a couple different build using using Spur Foci, back in 4th. I just never actually got around to using any of them. Spurs are still blades, and blades are reasonable foci, a Mono-whip I have a very hard to time accepting as a legit foci.
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why not a mono-whip?
too techy?
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why not a mono-whip?
too techy?
yes (and cybersupurs have to be imbued before they are installed iirc...)
...but neither of that will really matter if you get it at chargen
bone lacing, however, is not a melee weapon.
...so by raw you cannot imbue that into a weapon focus. not even at chargen.
(not even at chargen)
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why not a mono-whip?
too techy?
yes (and cybersupurs have to be imbued before they are installed iirc...)
...but neither of that will really matter if you get it at chargen
bone lacing, however, is not a melee weapon.
...so by raw you cannot imbue that into a weapon focus. not even at chargen.
(not even at chargen)
So, i could not make a weapon focus out say... a chair leg? Even though i fully intent to use it as a club?
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So, i could not make a weapon focus out say... a chair leg? Even though i fully intent to use it as a club?
I wouldn't count on the possibility to aquire one :)
But if you yourself view a chair leg as a weapon, you should entirely be in your right to craft one yourself. Lots of things related to magic are based on thoughts that influence reality. Since those chair legs are quite fragile compared to real weapons, you should be careful, as breaking the item destroys the focus.
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The problem is that bone lacing isn't a weapon. Your fists are. Your bones aren't in direct contact with your enemy (unless you're pre-metal Wolverine or suffer from a horrid disease). So all the bone lacing really does is put more solid mass behind the punch. Now you can't turn your fists into a weapon focus, so it seems weird that you could indirectly do so with bone lacing. Then again, I'd probably allow some gloves that don't change your base damage.
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So basically the argument is based around contact. What level of contact is needed for a weapon to count.
I can understand that view point. For me, its more of a non-issue. In SR, they never really say "how" a weapon focus is enhanced.
I mean, just how much sharper is a weapon focus monowhip over a regular one? Just how is the weight or surfaced area of a 5lbs sledge hammer weapon focus better then the one in the store? (Aside from that whole hurts spirits thing :P )
I just explain it away by saying "its the aura of the weapon focus that causes the more damage". Now, we know that auras extend a few inches outside of the body that manifests it... more then enough for the bone lacing foci to hit the aura of the target...
☆☆☆☆
I dunno, I'm not seeing the advantages of the bone lacing focus (except for being disarmed.... and if you, you got bigger problems).
And its not like a pair of gloves could be easily removed too...
Just not worth the expense IMO... but i wouldn't out right disallow it.
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The problem is that bone lacing isn't a weapon. Your fists are. Your bones aren't in direct contact with your enemy (unless you're pre-metal Wolverine or suffer from a horrid disease). So all the bone lacing really does is put more solid mass behind the punch. Now you can't turn your fists into a weapon focus, so it seems weird that you could indirectly do so with bone lacing. Then again, I'd probably allow some gloves that don't change your base damage.
Hmm. So, if a troll gets bone lacing, does that also include the bone-spurs that protrude from their various parts? If so, that would seem to lend itself to possible weaponizing, right?
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Even though i fully intent to use it as a club?
No issue there....
A chair leg you use as a club is an improvised melee weapon.
So basically the argument is based around contact. What level of contact is needed for a weapon to count.
No, the argument is about melee weapons.
your bone structure is not a melee weapon.
your fists are not melee weapons.
a sword is a melee weapon
a club is a melee weapon
a monowhip is a melee weapon.
a chair leg you use as a club is an improvised melee weapon
your implanted cyberspurs are melee weapons as well.
you can probably even argue that a pistol can be used as a melee weapon and make that into a weapon focus (but a pistol weapon focus, if your GM allows it, will not help you at all when using the pistol as a ranged firearm rather as an improvised melee weapon).
SR5 p. 320 Weapon Foci
A weapon focus always has, unsurprisingly, the form of a melee weapon. It adds magical power to the melee attacks you make with it. When used in physical combat, it gives you its Force as a dice pool bonus on your melee Attack Test. You still rely on your Physical Attributes and skills in combat; the weapon focus merely makes you more effective.
A weapon focus is effective against astral forms too, whether you’re using astral perception or projection. It adds its Force to your Astral Combat Tests when you’re using it, and you can take it along while astrally projecting. The damage of the weapon in astral combat is the same as it is in the physical world, except that you can decide between Stun or Physical damage (Astral Combat,p. 315).
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FWIW I would totally allow a character to make a pistol into a weapon focus. The bonus applies only to melee combat with the pistol though. Very appropriate for a gun slinger adept with Gun Kata or Firefight martial arts.
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FWIW I would totally allow a character to make a pistol into a weapon focus. The bonus applies only to melee combat with the pistol though. Very appropriate for a gun slinger adept with Gun Kata or Firefight martial arts.
Weapon Foci Bayonet is totally legit.
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As I recall, trolls don't have bone spurs, they have keratin nodules that, like rhino horn, may have the consistency and durability of bone. And a weapon focus, going by both theme and game play, may enhance the combat capacity of an Awakened individual who has bonded to it - it makes them a bit faster, a bit more accurate, twitch the weapon at just the right time to hit harder. (And if you don't think that last is true, you've never learned anything about weapons, or even chopping wood.) Or it may channel mana directly into the target; that's in theme and game play as well, so it's up to you. What it doesn't do is 'add an aura' that does damage - well, not unless you have an elemental effect, and that gets wiggy, but still.
Also going by game play, we know that a weapon focus has to a) remain in the wielder's possession in order to work, and b) must aggressively and directly contact the opponent in order to function as a weapon focus. No arrows, no bullets, no shuriken - or rather, anything that is enchanted loses its active weapon focus capabilities just as soon as it loses contact with the person who has bonded to it, and does nothing unless it comes into physical (not auric) contact with a target.
As for me, if I hadn't already put together the dai-sho for Hawatari, which included enchanting the tanto, I would so enchant the pistol ...
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if anyone has book/page reference I'd love to read it. I did contemplate a couple different build using using Spur Foci, back in 4th.
IIRC.
Spur Foci = Missions Season-1. - Mission 1.0 - One of the NPC Fixers.
Whip Foci = Missions Season-4 - Mission 4.2 "Extraction" - Lungs Assassin