Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => GM's Toolbox => Topic started by: Namikaze on <10-19-14/0029:44>
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I thought I had already posted this here, but it turns out I did not. Oops!
So one of my crew is a Technomancer, and we were both seriously bummed about the lack of advanced rules for Technomancers - we felt that Unwired really did a lot of flesh out their mysticism and create a lot of diversity within the Technomancer archetype. So I created a conversion document that converts Streams, Paragons, and Echoes from Unwired to 5th edition. Obviously this will be of little use once we actually have these rules in front of us, but hopefully they will help someone else out in the meantime.
Bear in mind that at my table, Technomancers start with the Skinlink echo for free. The rules for it are that the Skinlink works within the electromagnetic field of the character - which means that if something is on their back or in their pocket, they can access it. Sort of like the wireless datajacks that deckers get.
Without further ado, here is the link to the Technomancer conversion: Link (http://tinyurl.com/mjuatfd)
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I like a lot of it. Can I give feedback here?
I figure you probably made this before Street Grimoire? Regardless, in SG they made it so group initiation and initiation tasks only give -10% each. I'd assume then that TMs should be reduced to the same amount.
I like how you did Mesh Reality. It's how I was thinking it'd work best, I just wasn't sure if that'd be considered "too complicated". Though I think you should add about how interrupt actions work. Like if you take a Parry action, which initiative(s) it affects. I'd suggest both-- Just to stop players from uncaringly tanking their physical initiative after rolling it. Like a "Oh I rolled 18? Well my Matrix is only 26 and I plan on taking two matrix actions. Full Defense and Preemptive Dodge. There we go!"
Unless that's something you want to be possible.
Thank you for sharing!
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I welcome feedback! I did indeed write these rules before Street Grimoire, and as a result I didn't know anything about the potential changes. Now that I know, and that you've told me, I'll update the document to reflect this as a balancing effect. Also, I agree with your assessment on Mesh Reality - actions that affect Initiative in one "realm" should affect both the physical and Matrix realms.
After looking through Street Grimoire I decided that I really like the Ways. They give the mage more flavor than just being a "mage." Now a mage can reasonably and realistically label themselves as "geomancers" and "exorcists" and anything in between. I'd like to find a way to implement something similar for Technomancers, moving some of the Echoes and Advanced Echoes into various Ways. It will hopefully act as a gating agent for progression, to prevent people from being too cheesy with their build. Plus, it allows the inclusion of really powerful Advanced Echoes without worrying that everyone will take that new shiny thing, even if it's completely counter the character concept.
I was thinking that each Way could get an Advanced Echo and an Enhancement. The Enhancement is a new Matrix action that the Technomancer can perform, and the Advanced Echo is a powerful ability that can only be unlocked via Submersion. The question is how to differentiate the Ways from the Streams, and what the Enhancements would be. I'll think on it a bit, but I welcome input, suggestions, constructive criticism, and feedback. :)
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Ways are currently only adept things, the "geomancer" or "exorcist" is gained through Initiation by a mage. So, it could be an "Echo Stream" (substitute something that sounds better) that you can get into when you submerge.
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Yeah that's true - it wouldn't be a Way per se. I dunno what on earth I'd want to call it though. Maybe... Algorithms? Compilations? OOooh, or maybe Daemons? I like that one, personally.
I was just looking through this very comprehensive list of terms used in computing: http://pc.net/glossary/
I've done a lot of IT work in the past, but to be honest I can't think of these kinds of terms without a frame of reference. Finding this online glossary is helpful. It could be useful in coming up with some Enhancement names too.
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Well the groups in Street Grimoire are more akin to schools of magic. Different from spell categories because it's magic in general and not just sorcery.
"Algorithm" would be good for the Enhancements, if they're going to be new actions that TM can perform. For the schools... How about "domains"?
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I think "Algorithms" is a good one for Enhancements as well. "Pseudocode" might be interesting as well, if you want the whole thing with Resonance Actions and Resonance Sprites don't even look like viable code but still crazily work. I was thinking something like "Languages" or "Scripts" for the different types of Ways would be descriptive, but they sound too mundane and/or silly in my mind. "Domains", like firebug said, seem like a pretty good choice to me.
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Archetypes? Class? Not sure.
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I like domain as well! Let's roll with that for now.
The way to handle domains would be to throw in an Enhancement and an Advanced Echo for each domain. A domain should cover an aspect of technomancy/hacking. Let's say we need 5 domains, just to throw a nice number on it. I think the areas of hacking that the domains cover could be associated with a Matrix action, such as Brute Force, Hack on the Fly, Control Device, Crack File, Edit File? I'm worried that might make them too much like the Paragons though. So maybe it should be more broad, such as covering Hacking, Remote Operations, File Manipulation, Physical Interfaces (aka: Biowire and such), Noise Manipulation?
I like the idea of the second option, where domains don't cover Matrix actions per se, but rather a suite of things that technomancers should or could be good at.
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I kind of like something like this:
Hacking - Covers all sorts of ways of creating worms and backdoors into code to sneakily gain access
Cracking - Covers all sorts of ways to send brute force algorithms and break down firewalls to gain access noisily, but effectively
Subversion - Covers all sorts of ways to subvert communications and delicately manage signals; embodied by things like spoofing and tracking, possibly even Control Device
Jamming - Covers ways to noisily block communications and signals; embodied by jamming, noise manipulation, and erasing marks to name a few
Compiling/Registering/Software - Covers ways to more efficiently compile, register, bolster, strengthen, etc. Sprites
The names could be changed, but for 5 basic groups, that's what I would think of. Especially since Technomancers already have a favored action, some like to infiltrate, which would be covered by Hacking, some like to noisily break thing open, which would be covered by Cracking, etc. I especially like the idea of a domain that covers sprites, for those who like to rely on them and those who are creating a closer connection to the Resonance in that manner.
Edit: Another thing I thought of were something like Great Form Sprites; whether that would be available to all Technomancers or just those who follow the last domain I listed, I'm not sure. I think it would be interesting though.
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I like it - especially the Great Form Sprites. I'd make those available only to the compiling domain though.
So hacking would be subtle, cracking would be obvious. Otherwise, how would they be different from Brute Force and Hack on the Fly actions? Maybe instead of Cracking we have Remote Operations, aka drones? It could be more focused on the physical, or interacting with the physical via the Matrix.
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So are Domains like Adept Ways, where you can only follow 1, or like Magician Arts, where you can initiate into multiple ones?
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I like it - especially the Great Form Sprites. I'd make those available only to the compiling domain though.
So hacking would be subtle, cracking would be obvious. Otherwise, how would they be different from Brute Force and Hack on the Fly actions? Maybe instead of Cracking we have Remote Operations, aka drones? It could be more focused on the physical, or interacting with the physical via the Matrix.
I don't know, I just thought of them as like mindsets for Technomancers. A part of the resonance that meshes with their personality and enhances their abilities. I don't actually have that good of an explanation for it; I just thought about it and wrote something. It's definitely a first draft and needs to brainstorming to improve. My main reasoning for the categories are the specialties that a Technomancer could gravitate towards. Some like to be subtle, that one is obviously Hacking. Some like to be noisy and strip code and firewalls wherever they go - that would be Cracking. I then thought about how Electronic Warfare basically encompasses all of communications, but there are really 2 sides to it. There's the subtle side, like intercepting messages and spoofing commands; and then there's the obvious side, like jamming, other noise manipulation, and, in my mind, disruption of signals such as marks. So, I split that group into 2. Finally, I thought about Sprites and how you could maybe create a Compiler, the Matrix version of a Conjurer. Some people may not even do their own hacking, but instead create a veritable army of versatile sprites, so I included that as an option.
If anything, I would possibly combine Jamming and Subverting and put in Remote Operations. That would include stuff like drones, control device, and echoes like Biowire, Acceleration and Mesh Reality.
I would also just like to say, since I don't think I have, that I really like your houserules on Technomancers. I never played 4th, so all of this is still somewhat new to me, and it looks like it would make a Technomancer actually appealing to play.
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I would like to suggest the addition of a Reflex Recorder complex form. Subject to the Same limits as a Bioware Reflex recorder. The idea being a real world macro basically.
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So are Domains like Adept Ways, where you can only follow 1, or like Magician Arts, where you can initiate into multiple ones?
I was thinking of them as being like the Magician Arts, but brainstorming like crazy hasn't resulted in a plethora of options, so maybe they should be more like an Adept Way? Jury's still out on this one.
I don't know, I just thought of them as like mindsets for Technomancers.
No worries, amigo. I wasn't trying to criticize. :)
A part of the resonance that meshes with their personality and enhances their abilities. I don't actually have that good of an explanation for it; I just thought about it and wrote something. It's definitely a first draft and needs to brainstorming to improve. My main reasoning for the categories are the specialties that a Technomancer could gravitate towards. Some like to be subtle, that one is obviously Hacking. Some like to be noisy and strip code and firewalls wherever they go - that would be Cracking. I then thought about how Electronic Warfare basically encompasses all of communications, but there are really 2 sides to it. There's the subtle side, like intercepting messages and spoofing commands; and then there's the obvious side, like jamming, other noise manipulation, and, in my mind, disruption of signals such as marks. So, I split that group into 2. Finally, I thought about Sprites and how you could maybe create a Compiler, the Matrix version of a Conjurer. Some people may not even do their own hacking, but instead create a veritable army of versatile sprites, so I included that as an option.
We're definitely using the same rationale here, let's keep going. If we can get more than 5, I think we have a good shot at making this VERY viable.
If anything, I would possibly combine Jamming and Subverting and put in Remote Operations. That would include stuff like drones, control device, and echoes like Biowire, Acceleration and Mesh Reality.
That would be awesome actually - all of the communication between the Matrix and the physical world under the one umbrella. I definitely like this.
I would also just like to say, since I don't think I have, that I really like your houserules on Technomancers. I never played 4th, so all of this is still somewhat new to me, and it looks like it would make a Technomancer actually appealing to play.
Thanks! :)
I would like to suggest the addition of a Reflex Recorder complex form. Subject to the Same limits as a Bioware Reflex recorder. The idea being a real world macro basically.
That would be a really nifty enhancement for a technomancer that uses their powers in their meat bodies. Hmm, that makes me think of this as the domain list:
- Hacking - this would be the subtle cousin of Cracking, focusing on manipulation of data to allow spoofing, file edits, and such
- Cracking - this is the angry drunken uncle of Hacking, focusing on breaking through firewalls, obliterating IC, and causing havoc to systems
- Remote Operations - this domain focuses on the signals that travel between the physical world and the Matrix
- Body Mods - this domain uses the technology and evolution of technomancers to take them to the next level, giving technomancers almost Adept-like powers
- Sigint - this domain focuses on the acquisition and denial of intelligence and misinformation
- Compiling - this domain focuses on the Resonance, and the compiling and registering of Sprites
So each domain would have a new Matrix Action and/or Complex Form they could perform, along with an Echo and/or Advanced Echo (jury's still out on that too). For instance, the Sigint Technomancer would get a Matrix Action to manipulate the data feeds of opposing forces' smartguns, causing them to miss more often. They could also get a Complex Form to block or create noise in an area, like the Living ECM Echo. The Body Mod Technomancer might get Echoes and Complex Forms that can replicate certain pieces of cyberware, like the Acceleration and Biowire Echoes. Or even the ability to use a Complex Form to replicate a smartlink that is implanted, giving you the full bonus as if you had the implant. Of course, it has to be sustained, so that might not be balanced well. Remote Operations might get an Echo that allows them to use their Mental Attributes to create a Living RCC, but they can only use the Simrig or the Persona at a time.
I REALLY like the Compiler Technomancer - I feel that a Great Form Sprite would be a great boon to a Technomancer, as well as something akin to an Ally Spirit, maybe? The Body Mods Technomancer fits with the rumors in canon of technomancers that are exhibiting adept-like powers. Not sure on Sigint, Hacking, and Cracking yet - I feel like those need more thought to make them unique and interesting, without making them too powerful.
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The downside of using it like Adept Ways is that you'd heavily limit what they get. If you allow for them to get into multiple Technomancer Arts, they can learn the Enhancements of multiple types instead, allowing them to specialize or spread themselves wide. Remember how I said earlier that it'd make more sense if they can pay karma to learn a program with the right 'Metamagic'? That could be Enhancements I guess?_?
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The downside of using it like Adept Ways is that you'd heavily limit what they get. If you allow for them to get into multiple Technomancer Arts, they can learn the Enhancements of multiple types instead, allowing them to specialize or spread themselves wide.
Absolutely! My only concern is that making it like an Art with only a handful of options would effectively mean that eventually a technomancer will take them all anyway. I'd really like to get to at least 8 options. Ambitious, I think.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17200.0
Remember how I said earlier that it'd make more sense if they can pay karma to learn a program with the right 'Metamagic'? That could be Enhancements I guess?_?
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Yeah, that would be the right idea. I was thinking of the following for each Domain:
A new Complex Form (bought with Karma, like an Enhancement for mages)
A new Echo
A new Advanced Echo
But if we only had 5 or 6 Domains, I'd probably add a passive bonus to each Domain, and make them exclusive (like Adept Ways). I'd REALLY rather see them more akin to Arts though.
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I don't think the enhancement necessarily has to be a CF. Make some of them the passives. I'd also suggest that you make the Simrig one available to all regardless of Domain, but just require that they have one first.
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I would tend to agree that the specialized things don't necessarily need to be Complex Forms. I think we should try and brainstorm a few Complex Forms, just because I find the current list a little lacking, but maybe each domain could give some bonus when threading certain complex forms that are relevant to the domain's mindset? Like Cracking would get a bonus to Resonance Spike? I realize this is a little drab, so anything anyone has to spice it up would be good. I'll try to think of some new domain ideas, but I think we covered almost everything.
Well, actually, here's are some domain ideas that may or may not be good. I have no idea what to name them, but here are the descriptions.
Personality Mods - Face enhancing equivalent of a Mage build; uses Technology to alter their appearance and enhance/change their personality
Information Gatherer - Specializes in using both physical, and Matrix techniques to gather information into one spot; Edit File etc.
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That's fair - we shouldn't begin pigeon-holing right off the bat. :) You know, this is SO much easier when there is already material to draw from (Unwired) :P
8-bit, I like those domains. I'd want to tweak Information Gathering to cover Information Manipulation as well, especially if we're talking about having this Domain be exceptional at Edit File and similar actions. Actually, going through the list that's basically what Sigint is all about. So here's the current list as I see it (I still want more ideas, and I'll add to it as I come up with ideas!):
- Hacking - the cat burglar of the Matrix, sneaking in and out without anyone being the wiser
- Cracking - kicking down firewalls, blasting IC and spiders, and reminding the world that their information is far from safe
- Remote Operations - this domain focuses on the signals that travel between the physical world and the Matrix
- Sigint - this domain focuses on the acquisition and denial of intelligence and misinformation
- Compiling - this domain focuses on the Resonance, and the compiling and registering of Sprites
- Body Mods - this domain uses the technology and evolution of technomancers to give themselves abilities and powers never seen before
- Personality Mods - this domain uses the technology and evolution of technomancers to make themselves more likable, feared, and respected
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You may wanna have another look on “Guild” and “Blur”
“Guild” aka Technomancer Host
There aren’t any rules about Host actions, so there should be any problem with the creation of high rating Hosts. But is there any fading for creating a “Guild”? Where is the Host located*? Can another Technomancer/Sprite find and enter this Host? Can another Decker/AI/Agent find and enter this Host?
“Blur” aka Masking
First, I don’t like that fact that pretty much everything in SR5 is an Opposing Test. But they implemented Limits in SR5. With that, and without edge, it can become practical impossible to see through this ruse.
The rest, as far as I can gather, look solid.
*ressonance realm, space, neo-tokyo?
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Here's another domain idea to consider. It doesn't exactly have a lot of rules or actions currently available for it, but I thought it fit pretty well, especially if we made domains like Magician Arts.
Creation/Bolstering - Focuses on strengthening defenses, such as firewalls and encryptions, sprites and personas; also focuses on creating virtual data, such as spoofed lifestyles or forged IDs
I'm still not sure on that last part, since spoofing and forgery seem like they might be more of a Sigint domain type of thing. This is like the Technomancy version of the Shielding Art; I'm sure there are Technomancers out there who have a very defensive/protective mindset, and I think this would fit fairly well. I might be reaching though, so feel free to tell me if you don't like it.
Any ideas on what kinds of Complex Forms/New Matrix Actions you were thinking about? As long as you don't mind everyone giving feedback on first drafts that is. I may have gotten a little crazy with your Technomancer rules. I hope you don't mind.
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A thought, as to the naming of your "Arts"-like groups.
Since TMs became known to the world at-large what legitimate positions have they started to carve out for themselves, aside from those they work alongside their Decker counterparts? Those job titles might serve as good names for your groupings as well as serving as a guide for which CFs and Echoes to group together.
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Creation/Bolstering - Focuses on strengthening defenses, such as firewalls and encryptions, sprites and personas; also focuses on creating virtual data, such as spoofed lifestyles or forged IDs
Oh this I like - great idea! I hadn't considered the technomancer as a "buffer" role much, but this would make the archetype very intriguing, I think. 8-bit should be renamed to "Butter" cause he's on a roll! :P
Since TMs became known to the world at-large what legitimate positions have they started to carve out for themselves, aside from those they work alongside their Decker counterparts? Those job titles might serve as good names for your groupings as well as serving as a guide for which CFs and Echoes to group together.
I really like this idea too - that was sort of where I came from with Sigint, since that's the short-hand version of Signals Intelligence from the Army. I think this is a great idea though, and I bet we can find some good naming ideas.
“Guild” aka Technomancer Host
There aren’t any rules about Host actions, so there should be any problem with the creation of high rating Hosts. But is there any fading for creating a “Guild”? Where is the Host located*? Can another Technomancer/Sprite find and enter this Host? Can another Decker/AI/Agent find and enter this Host?
A host isn't located anywhere. Think of a guild as a magical society, it's a group of technomancers that come together and create a silently-running host on the public grid. That's all that is important to know. Anyone can find the host using the same rules for finding silently-running hosts that already exist. The fact that it's on the public grid actually helps protect them a bit, since attempts to find them will suffer a penalty. The host can be entered by anyone who dares try - but I would anticipate that a guild host is swarming with technomancers and/or sprites, so good luck surviving if you break in.
As far as fading goes, that can be added in - it's a long test though, and you pay karma afterward, so I'm not too worried about what the Fading value would be. Let's just go with the Threshold of the test, divided by the number of participants.
“Blur” aka Masking
First, I don’t like that fact that pretty much everything in SR5 is an Opposing Test.
Can't help you there.
But they implemented Limits in SR5. With that, and without edge, it can become practical impossible to see through this ruse.
First, I don't see how this is likely to be an issue. If a technomancer has a very high submersion grade, they should be harder to detect. And why is edge not a factor in this test?
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I also don't see how Blur is an issue. It's pretty much the same with Masking, if you have a high enough initiation/submersion grade, then you are likely to remain hidden. It's as simple as that.
As for the Bolstering Domain, I was thinking that, since we kind of want them to be like Magician's Arts where you can get into multiple, a Technomancer is not completely sidelined into just Bolstering. They can pick up a submersion or two into it to get some better defenses, or if they want to go really far into it, then they can become buffers, like you've said.
Here's a question for you Namikaze. What do you think about the Fading on the current Complex Forms? I know a lot of people, including myself, think they are pretty high; especially compared to the Drain values on spells. Just something to consider when you start making your own Complex Forms; whether you'll adjust them to their current drain, or adjust the current drain to them.
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Oh I'm not a fan of the current Fading. Given that there aren't many Complex Forms and a technomancer doesn't use them all that much, I can see why they're so high. But with these modified rules, and the potential addition of several Complex Forms, I think it would make sense to do one of two things. Either we retcon the Fading codes, or we add an option for a technomancer equivalent to reagents. Personally, I prefer the second option - I feel like Complex Forms are rare and powerful things, but they shouldn't be crippling to a technomancer.
Look at it like this: a decker can do all the same Matrix Actions that a technomancer can do. They can use agents, which are similar (and yet completely different from) sprites. The thing that technomancers really have that is unique is the ability to use Complex Forms. Therefore, it makes sense to make Complex Forms powerful tools that really make the technomancer unique. So I am supportive of making Complex Forms very powerful, and with a high cost. However, the current Fading codes are a bit extreme in some cases, making the Fading enough of a penalty that they become a deterrent to using Complex Forms. I'm hardly suggesting we make Complex Forms able to be used every turn without cost, which is where I think a technomancer "reagent" would come in handy. A technomancer could use the "reagents" to set the limit, allowing them to use their Complex Forms at a lower Level.
What I would probably do with the Complex Form creation is to go with the current system of Fading values, but I might throw in a little something to act as a "reagent." I'm going to have to tweak a lot of stuff to make it balanced, but that's where the community here can really help - once I've got something written down, let's test things, run simulations and algorithms, and then see if we can get this whole thing well balanced.
Oh, and I had a VERY rough idea for a Domain: Math and Probability. Using advanced Resonance Algorithms (a new term I just made up wholecloth that implies mysticism) the Technomancer can predict the outcomes of certain events that are already in motion. The power that I'm thinking of is also EXTREMELY similar to Info Sortilege, but focuses on predicting outcomes rather than directing or giving the character a trove of information.
Also: updated the Defragmentation echo to reflect the correct verbiage for how the Living Persona takes damage. Since there is no such thing as "Living Persona damage" I've changed the echo to remove Stun damage caused via the Matrix. It can't be used for healing Fading damage, or damage caused by something not of the Matrix though. So a Stunbolt can't be healed, but a Data Spike can.
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I think you're right. I like the idea of "reagents" for Technomancers. Maybe call it "source code" or "packets" (to completely mix and confuse modern terms for anyone who is technical)? Or even, "packets of source code" to follow "drams of reagents"? We could always go back to Bits and Bytes, but that would probably just confuse even non-technical people.
I like that idea for a Domain. Let me just see if we're on the same page here.
Would this apply only to the Matrix, or the the Physical World as well? Basically, by peeking into the Resonance, a Technomancer can follow impossible threads of thought in order to deduce how or what events may occur in the near future? Is it like Divination for mages? Instead of imprints of emotions and such on the astral plane, what about the imprint of motives and logic in the Matrix and the Resonance Realms? Or, is it just that by figuring out how to work more closely with the Resonance Realms, you can look through and exploit it's vast archives of data to make predictions? Sort of making the Resonance Realms a huge database (since no data is ever forgotten in the Resonance Realms), and your "Resonance Algorithms" into functions that sift through the data and make predictions?
I might be way off base there, but if we are thinking similarly, I like the idea.
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It would definitely be like Divination for mages - functionally very similar. You could use it for both physical events and Matrix events, sort of like how Divination isn't limited to just the astral. And your description of it is exactly what I was thinking. The technomancer uses their connection to the Deep Resonance to pull probabilities out of thin air, and the most likely probability of events is the one that the technomancer gets information about. And of course, it's got to be cryptic as hell.
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“Guild”
I was just wondering. You implied that it could be possible for outsiders to enter the Host. If it can be done, it would be nice to mention how.
“Blur”
Masking is Magic + iniate grade vs Assensing Test. Even silent running is an opposing test.
Blur has a soft limit; Karma.
Matrix Perception has a hard limit; Attributes/Device Rating.
It is easier to blur as to see through it. And is possible to reach a level of submersion were you cannot see through it at all.
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“Guild”
I was just wondering. You implied that it could be possible for outsiders to enter the Host. If it can be done, it would be nice to mention how.
By following the normal rules for hosts? Hacker does matrix perception test to find the host, but has to know something about it's existence first. Then hacker attempts to enter the host by Brute Force or Hack on the Fly methods. Then hacker uses the Enter Host matrix action.
It is easier to blur as to see through it. And is possible to reach a level of submersion were you cannot see through it at all.
Yes, but one could say the same for the Masking metamagic.
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Hm... Since it's unclear how a TM would get an electronical form of Reagents, how does a small algorithm you put together sound? Basically you'd use one of your skills (Threading?) to put together a Technomancer 'alchemical preparation' of sorts, so there's a shelf-life and a limit to how many you can have at a time, and can use those to suppress the Fading?
Note to self: Dig deeper into TMs.
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Perhaps for the "Source Code" it would be a test similar to gathering reagents?
I was thinking Compiling + Resonance [Mental/Social] (whichever is higher) for creating new "Source Code" out of the Resonance. Alternatively, if you Decompile a Sprite, it leaves behind traces of "Source Code" that can be harvested with no effort, other than decompiling the Sprite, of course. This could lead to some bad Resonance Reputation (for lack of a better term) if you continuously decompile Sprites just to get at their "Source Code".
I still haven't decided whether I like the term "Source Code" or "Packets" more for the Technomancer's reagents. Any thoughts?
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“Guild”
What about “Noise and Matrix use” (SR5 S.231)?
“Blur”
Yes, one could say the same for the Masking metamagic. But I don’t. It is harder in SR5 to mask as to see through it.
With SR4 Blur, the rules you are using, in SR5 you could be the best decker* in the world, better than Fast Jack ever was, have an 900k Deck, and still you cannot see through the blur of a technomancer with enough submersions. Hack, your character could have hundredfold the karma and ¥ of this technomancer and it wouldn’t matter.
“Regents”
How about time?
You invest X hour for additional preparations and reduce the fade by one.
*Or technomancer, they too have limits for matrix perception.
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“Guild”
What about “Noise and Matrix use” (SR5 S.231)?
Since a Host has no physical location, Noise isn't a factor. That's not written in the rules that way, but it is heavily implied by this sentence:
They have no physical location, being made up of the stuff of the Matrix itself.
I mean, the book literally has no better definition of what makes a host than that. Since Unwired isn't out yet, and I don't want to go through all the hand-wringing and arguing that would come with me proposing my own idea of what a host is composed of, let alone where it is housed... I went with the way the book defines a host. A Guild Host is simply a host on the Public Grid - that's it. Noise is irrelevant with regards to connecting to hosts, unless you're attempting to connect to a device on the host's WAN. The device has a physical location, so it is therefore associated with Noise. The host itself does not have a physical location though.
“Blur”
Yes, one could say the same for the Masking metamagic. But I don’t.
You're literally saying that what I'm saying makes sense, but you're choosing to ignore it. Drop the Blur topic if you're not willing to have a conversation about it.
“Regents”
How about time?
You invest X hour for additional preparations and reduce the fade by one.
I like the idea of calling them Packets, which separates them from the Source Code that a technomancer can create and acts as a material link to the character. So let's say you Thread some packets, and take some Fading as a result. Playing with numbers still, but what about a Complex Form to create Packets that looks like this:
Target: Self, Duration: P, FV: L - 1
The character rolls an extended Threading + Resonance (Level, 1 Combat Turn). When the test is complete, the character has some "Packets" which can be used by the character (and only the character) to manipulate their Complex Forms, allowing the character to expend a number of Packets to set the limit on a Complex Form test. The number of Packets spent in this way must be equal to the desired limit on the Complex Form test.
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The test should be Software + Resonance (Level, 1 Combat Turn) to match all the other Complex Forms. Also, how many Packets get created? The chosen Level?
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Yes you're right about the test. And I forgot to write the bit that I had in my head, oops. :P
You generate a number of Packets equal to the Level of the Complex Form. Here's a revised version:
THREAD PACKETS
Target: Self, Duration: P, FV: L - 1
The character rolls an extended Software + Resonance (Level, 1 Combat Turn). When the test is complete, the character has a number of "Packets" equal to the Level of the Complex Form. Packets may be used by the character (and only the character) to manipulate their Complex Forms, allowing the character to expend a number of Packets to set the limit on a Complex Form test. The number of Packets spent in this way must be equal to the desired limit on the Complex Form test.
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Do you plan to bring any more Echoes and/or Complex Forms from Unwired over? Just curiosity's sake, as I've been rereading the book and some of them seem quite interesting and useful to me.
Edit: Also, for Mesh Reality; do you use Hot Sim VR for your Matrix Initiative, or Cold Sim VR? Your example uses Cold Sim, and I can't seem to find any indication in Unwired that you would use Hot Sim, but I was just curious as to your reasoning.
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Do you plan to bring any more Echoes and/or Complex Forms from Unwired over? Just curiosity's sake, as I've been rereading the book and some of them seem quite interesting and useful to me.
When I initially built this document, I tried to consider the differences in the Matrix from 4th to 5th edition. Without knowing more about how the Matrix works now, I wasn't sure about how to convert some of the echoes over. The Complex Forms have changed so radically between editions, I simply didn't see a way to convert them at all.
Edit: Also, for Mesh Reality; do you use Hot Sim VR for your Matrix Initiative, or Cold Sim VR? Your example uses Cold Sim, and I can't seem to find any indication in Unwired that you would use Hot Sim, but I was just curious as to your reasoning.
You bring up a good question here. I was building Mesh Reality off the version from Unwired, and so it's possible there was some copy-pasta mistake there. Because of the changes to how Initiative is handled between editions, it probably should be running off your Hot Sim. Technomancers can't even use Cold Sim anyway, so that's just a mistake on my part. I'll get it updated. :)
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Do you plan to bring any more Echoes and/or Complex Forms from Unwired over? Just curiosity's sake, as I've been rereading the book and some of them seem quite interesting and useful to me.
When I initially built this document, I tried to consider the differences in the Matrix from 4th to 5th edition. Without knowing more about how the Matrix works now, I wasn't sure about how to convert some of the echoes over. The Complex Forms have changed so radically between editions, I simply didn't see a way to convert them at all.
I think the skinlink echoes is still the same but with the change of how complex forms work (they are all active tricks) I wonder how to convert the old unrated CF, like smartlink CF or simrig CF.
We can may be create an offshoot of CF that will inculde all the permanent/passive CF, the subroutine! (Or make them echoes but i don't really like this idea :( ) or did they fall under the Emulation echoes?
For the technomancer equivalent of way, why do you want them to give exclusive echoes rather than giving them a facility to learn them?
For the adept it is a PP cost reduction, for the technomancer it could be the ability to learn a list of 3 or 4 echoes by paying karma without the need to go through submersion. (Yes, i know GM can allow that as alternate rules)
For the packets, i don't think creating them from nowhere is a good idea, this will not rise interactions between technomancer like talismongling do for mage.
I think Packets should be found and extracted accross the Matrix, this way you can limit their availability and increase their value and usefulness (needed to create widget? increasing their duration? make them like technofoci?)
Is there any specific thread about technomancer special gear? Like fake datajack sticker, concealed datatachip (tongue piercing in my case), OS designed for tech with weird ergonomics applying malus to no-tech users? ^^
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I think the skinlink echoes is still the same but with the change of how complex forms work (they are all active tricks) I wonder how to convert the old unrated CF, like smartlink CF or simrig CF.
The skinlink is an echo that I give to every technomancer in my games. It's just a thing that is always there and available, allowing data transfers and shares without the need for the Matrix within the technomancer's electromagnetic field. As to converting the CFs from 4th edition, the problem you describe is exactly why I avoided them altogether. It might be possible to make a CF, enhancement, or echo that could emulate some or all of the 4th edition CFs, like the smartlink and/or simrig. I was planning on giving the simrig emulation to the Remote Operations Domain as an enhancement. The technomancer can only use their Living Simrig or their Living Persona at once though, they can't use both at the same time.
For the technomancer equivalent of way, why do you want them to give exclusive echoes rather than giving them a facility to learn them?
For the adept it is a PP cost reduction, for the technomancer it could be the ability to learn a list of 3 or 4 echoes by paying karma without the need to go through submersion. (Yes, i know GM can allow that as alternate rules)
Well the goal is not to emulate the adept Ways, but rather the Arts of mages. When a mage initiates, they can choose to initiate into an Art by taking a particular metamagic or ritual. Once they've done that, they can buy the remainder of the Art without having to initiate again. It's similar to the Ways of adepts, but the big difference is that an adept can only choose one Way, whereas a mage can take many different Arts. Now that we're looking at having something like 8 or 9 Domains, it makes a lot of sense to go in the direction of emulating the Arts rather than the Ways.
For the packets, i don't think creating them from nowhere is a good idea, this will not rise interactions between technomancer like talismongling do for mage.
I think Packets should be found and extracted accross the Matrix, this way you can limit their availability and increase their value and usefulness (needed to create widget? increasing their duration? make them like technofoci?)
This is an interesting idea as well, and I had considered something similar. The problem is that nothing on your persona sticks around after a reboot. Since a lot of technomancers reboot at night when asleep, the technomancer would have to spend part of each day scouring the Matrix for some packets. So while I like the idea of adding a sense of wandering the Matrix and getting into trouble to acquire packets, it doesn't make a lot of sense in the Matrix's current incarnation. There's a hint in Data Trails will have something called Deep Dives, which is a completely foreign concept to me - I have no idea what it's going to be or how it's going to be implemented. It is possible that Deep Dives will give personas a sense of permanence, but at that point I'm expecting to see advanced technomancer rules in that book that override everything I'm putting together now.
Is there any specific thread about technomancer special gear? Like fake datajack sticker, concealed datatachip (tongue piercing in my case), OS designed for tech with weird ergonomics applying malus to no-tech users? ^^
I've never seen a thread about this kind of thing. You should consider starting one though, it might be a lot of fun! :)
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I was actually thinking of only one Echo.
Advanced Overclocking - Seems pretty simple to add; just have it give +2d6 initiative dice while in VR, and allow it to break the normal rule of only 5 dice.
Also, yeah, I see the problem with converting the Complex Forms. They really would need a complete redesign.
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Okay, so after talking it over with my technomancer player I think we've settled on what to refer to the technomancer equivalent of reagents. They will be called tokens of Source. Calling the "reagent" by the name Source refers to the connection between the technomancer and the Resonance, and it has intentional wording relationships with the Source Code task for Submersion. We had toyed around with a bunch of different terms for the quantity, but in the end tokens just made more sense. Fun fact, some of the unique quantity measurements we found: Wheatons (a Wheaton is 500,000 followers on social media), a GLOC (pronounced Gee-Lock for giga-line of code or 1,000,000,000 lines of code), and Erlang (named for a unit of communication in telephones). We tried to say these things with straight faces, but none of them worked so we just stuck to tokens.
Also, according to this post (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=18689.0) by Miri, there's a great idea for some sort of advanced echo regarding programs. I'd like to use Miri's idea in these rules, but I don't know how to best implement the idea just yet. The actual discussion of Miri's house rule is being handled in Miri's thread. But I'll keep an eye on both areas to see if anything comes up that sounds good. Here's what I like as a proposal:
Domain: probably the Cracking domain, but maybe universal?
Advanced Echo: Emulation
Echo Requirement: Program
The technomancer gains further control over his ability to manipulate the flow of data. With this advanced echo, the technomancer can have multiple programs running at once, with no penalty for sustaining the programs. For each program to be run, the technomancer must pass a Software+Resonance test, with a threshold variable based on the type of program to be emulated. For Common programs, the threshold is 2. For Hacking programs, the threshold is 4. For each program to be emulated, the technomancer also must resist Fading equal to the threshold of the test.
A technomancer may have no more programs emulated at one time than they have Submersion Grades. Additionally, the emulation cannot replicate the effects of Pilot programs, Agents, or other semi-autonomous programs. Finally, all programs being emulated are shut down when the technomancer jacks out of the Matrix or reboots his Living Persona.