Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Sendaz on <10-26-14/0622:47>
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Seen this concept talked about but never statted up for a game.
Base idea is a bullet that has several short lengths (say 4-6 wires of 5-10 cm each) of monowire trailing behind the bullet perhaps with tiny ultradense weights as their ends to help stabilize them.
I imagine it loads as a sabot style round so the user can handle the bullet safely, then when exiting the barrel upon firing the casing falls away letting the monowire uncoil out behind to trail behind the bullet.
When the bullet enters the body of the target, the mono strands flail along the wound channel further causing some damage. This could cause some additional ongoing bleeding effect as the strands continue to cut as muscle/meat around them jostle the wire assuming the bullet has not gone on out the other side.
A person trying to remove the bullet to stop the ongoing damage thinking it is some kind of bleeder round and not aware that it has monowire might be in for a bit of shock when they lose a fingertip or the end of a forceps. Removal in any case will probably also cause damage unless they are very good, so it's one of those damned if you do/damned if you don't scenarios that are such a joy in hostile conditions.
Would it be better to have some form of hardened tip to let the round penetrates deeper while dragging the strands along or would letting it deform as normal and tumble through the body with the strands flailing along seem a better idea?
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It may have been talked about, but not by anyone who knew anything about projectiles. Those weighted strands of monowire would greatly increase drag and throw off the spin of the bullet, reducing range, accuracy, penetration, and damage. Unless you're talking about an arrow or rocket type projectile, in which case you won't get the 'fan of death' effect you're thinking of. Sorry to say, but it just isn't possible.
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Some taser darts have a wire trailing behind them; perhaps this would be a more appropriate approach?
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Sounds unworkably ridiculous to me, kinda like strapping a claymore to your rifle.
But that's just me.
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Some taser darts have a wire trailing behind them; perhaps this would be a more appropriate approach?
That is fiendish; a taser with a larger propellant and a spike instead of the barbs. Shoot it into someone, and every move would have the wire tear through them.
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Not to mention how incredibly difficult it would be to package the monowire into a bullet, and how it would increase drag etc. etc, but monowire would also slice through the bullet, and likely the gun as soon as inertia moved it forward. So, shaking the gun would probably move it enough to slice the bullet and then the gun (and possibly your hand) afterwards. Shooting it would probably destroy your gun, although I could see an argument made for the monowire to keep moving forward. Seems unlikely though.
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Monowire on its own has next to no mass, next to no friction on it's and no cutting power without tension.
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Not to mention how incredibly difficult it would be to package the monowire into a bullet, and how it would increase drag etc. etc, but monowire would also slice through the bullet, and likely the gun as soon as inertia moved it forward. So, shaking the gun would probably move it enough to slice the bullet and then the gun (and possibly your hand) afterwards. Shooting it would probably destroy your gun, although I could see an argument made for the monowire to keep moving forward. Seems unlikely though.
As we mentioned at the beginning, this would have to be a sabot style bullet so the coils of monowire would be in a sheath that it discards once out side the barrel so the gun is safe at least.
Monowire on its own has next to no mass, next to no friction on it's and no cutting power without tension.
Which is why you need the small weights at the end to help provide the minimum tension.
They are playing with something similar (http://www.mibullet.com/Vid_01.html) right now with regular wire here (http://www.mibullet.com/)
Rather than trailing behind as I thought it would, they are using the spin to fan out the three threads, creating effectively a wider hit zone.
This (http://www.mibullet.com/Vid_06.html) is a demonstration of the shell in action.
They do not state how much it cuts down on the range of the bullet so it may just be an idea for close quarters nor do they show how it fairs against a solid target, paper is nice but what sort of penetration does it really have?
Of course if you can get a monowire into this then it would have some better cutting action.
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I don't see the physics behind this idea working. I also don't understand the physics behind a gauss rifle, so there's that to consider too.
Supposing that the bullet had the wire packed into itself really tightly and was designed like a sabot round to disperse the contents of the shell (monowire) into the target, the ballistics would likely not change much. But once inside the target, the wire has to have some degree of tension to it (as JimmyCrisis noted) in order to slice anything. That's not to say that simply having the wire inside your body is somehow "good news" - you'll probably die from internal bleeding if nothing else, but the wire isn't going to necessarily do more damage to a target than the R.I.P. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c) bullet.
If you're looking for something that will break up on impact to disperse a load, I think the R.I.P. bullet is a great example of that concept in action. The drawback (in terms of lethal combat) is that the bullet fragments very easily when it contacts a hard surface. Ultimately, the monowire bullet is just a very expensive version of a frangible round.
EDIT: just saw the post you made, Sendaz. Having that visual certainly clears up my confusion. If you're talking about a bullet that fragments mid-flight and extends out to create a sheath of monowire... well that's just nasty. It definitely looks more effective with a shotgun, and it looks like it's a nasty piece of work at close range. Those targets look to be about 15 meters away, which is definitely normal for a gun fight that a shadowrunner would get into. I'd have no idea how to stat something like this up, but it would certainly change the weapon so that it uses substantially shorter ranges in exchange for a substantially greater chance to hit the target. It's hard to tell if the velocity of the bullet factors into the cutting power too much, but I'd say that a weapon with a higher base DV would get more damage out of it.
Here's just a thrown-together set of stats for it. DV -3, AP -3, Range: cannot exceed Short, +3 dice to hit.
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Not to mention how incredibly difficult it would be to package the monowire into a bullet, and how it would increase drag etc. etc, but monowire would also slice through the bullet, and likely the gun as soon as inertia moved it forward. So, shaking the gun would probably move it enough to slice the bullet and then the gun (and possibly your hand) afterwards. Shooting it would probably destroy your gun, although I could see an argument made for the monowire to keep moving forward. Seems unlikely though.
As we mentioned at the beginning, this would have to be a sabot style bullet so the coils of monowire would be in a sheath that it discards once out side the barrel so the gun is safe at least.
Monowire on its own has next to no mass, next to no friction on it's and no cutting power without tension.
Which is why you need the small weights at the end to help provide the minimum tension.
They are playing with something similar (http://www.mibullet.com/Vid_01.html) right now with regular wire here (http://www.mibullet.com/)
Rather than trailing behind as I thought it would, they are using the spin to fan out the three threads, creating effectively a wider hit zone.
This (http://www.mibullet.com/Vid_06.html) is a demonstration of the shell in action.
They do not state how much it cuts down on the range of the bullet so it may just be an idea for close quarters nor do they show how it fairs against a solid target, paper is nice but what sort of penetration does it really have?
Of course if you can get a monowire into this then it would have some better cutting action.
After watching this and reading the specs and functionality of it ... I think OP's idea could actually hold water. I'm inclined to think that it would function similar to Flechettes and have an AP bonus, but the damage bonus would be equivalent to Ex-Ex or more. If the round causes physical damage it could generate 1/2 its damage caused when its removed, which would also have a large difficulty. This would require trained professionals to do.
Question is ... do you think your games are not violent enough that you have to create a "Go to Hell" type bullet. (lol) Maybe there should be a certain type of stigma for using these kinds of rounds in-game?
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It would probably be far more workable to have two archers each fire an arrow simultaneously, with monowire inbetween them.
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Question is ... do you think your games are not violent enough that you have to create a "Go to Hell" type bullet. (lol)
Actually that is what the AM bullet is for. ;) This was just an idea I remembered coming across and never saw finished off in play.
Maybe there should be a certain type of stigma for using these kinds of rounds in-game?
Oh definately agree, using something like this would certainly draw a lot of unwanted heat. Kill on sight orders suck, especially if the bounty is big enough your own contacts consider turning you in for it.
But perhaps as a signature bullet for a NPC assassin with a sadistic streak...
It would probably be far more workable to have two archers each fire an arrow simultaneously, with monowire inbetween them.
Probably easier, but that still has it's own set of complications and they have to sort of set up the shot.
Not something they can do rapidly on the fly unless they stay close enough together to draw the wire linked arrows from the same quiver.
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Bola rounds, anyone? (http://www.firequest.com/G12-018.html)
-k
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Looking at the videos posted, it seems that these are all pretty short range shots. The demo with the pistol looked to be definitely inside 15m. The focus also appears to be less on increasing damage and more on making sure that you hit SOMETHING. At those ranges, especially with the shotgun, they already have something that fills that role: shot rounds. Flechette ammo or shotgun shells filled with shot are designed to spread out and make sure that you hit SOMETHING at least. Because of this, they tend to lose penetrating power. You'll notice that all those shots are done with paper targets, not with anything resembling a real target. It would be better to see a test using ballistics gel or even a pig carcass to determine the actual efficiency of the round. ANYTHING tears paper targets, afterall. There's a big difference between that, and getting through armor, or even a leather jacket.
With monowire, I'd say something like: -3 DV, -1 AP, +2 dice to hit, can only be used in Heavy Pistols and Shotguns. Heavy Pistols use Light Pistol ranges, Shotguns use Flechette ranges. Additional -2 penalty for ranges longer than short. (I.E., -3 for Medium, -5 for Long, -8 for extreme).