Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: PiXeL01 on <11-17-14/0447:39>
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so far I believe that the only carbine that exists is the HK Cm30 but as far as side and concealability it is the same size as an SMG or a bullpup?
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It use the medium size weapon skill (aka Automatics skill).
As for concealability table I would probably put most carbines at +4.
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I always thought, game mechanic wise, a Carbine was simply the SMG version of an Assault Riffle.
In my own games, I sometimes have situations, where Long Arms and Assault Riffles are simply not as effective, such as narrow tunnels, and receive a -2 to-4 penalty. I also rule that such weapons cannot attack an adjacent square, no one within 5', you simply cannot bring the weapon to bear. This makes sense to me, though my experience is limited to TV and movies, where I see many infiltration squads using SMGs and Carbines instead of the more powerful Assault riffles, when entering close areas.
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The main reason for using sub-machine guns as compared to carbines/assault rifles is generally the ammunition; pistol rounds are less likely to over-penetrate, they're usually cheaper, they're cross-compatible with sidearms, less recoil, etc. You use one when armor penetration isn't your top concern, generally, and when fire-rate, magazine capacity and stability are your concerns as compared to a pistol. I'd leave a carbine at the bullpup assault rifle concealability, or perhaps at +2 for a bullpup carbine itself; at that rate, however, I'd say such a gun uses SMG ranges, not assault rifle, as +2 concealability cuts down on barrel length and rifling, which'll definitely affect accuracy). It'd still be a great weapon for CQC, but you're screwed in a long-range engagement if you can't close the distance somehow.
As far as penalties go (specifically Bear's), I'd definitely not apply them to automatics in close-quarters. It makes sense for certain longarms, primarily the bolt-action sniper and sporting rifles (not so much the designated marksman rifles like the SVD or EBR), but an assault rifle is generally designed with close-quarters combat at least somewhat in mind nowadays. I've done some training in regards to engaging at that distance, and a rifle will do just fine; even if they got so close that I couldn't present my rifle fully, it'll at least be pointing at their stomach, and I know that'll put someone on their ass, even if they have body-armor. If anything, I'd just rule no called shots at melee range, which already has penalties on shooting while in a melee (-3, if I remember correctly).
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To me, the difference between an assault rifle and a carbine (from a game rules perspective) is not large enough to warrant any adjustments anywhere.
Battle rifle. Assault rifle. Carbine rifle.... all the same shit when it comes to range, concealment, and other game mechanics.
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Hm, so you'd rule a Battle Rifle uses Sport Rifle Concealment rather than Sniper Rifle Concealment? Because the Battle Rifle is a Sniper Rifle in core, though core doesn't get into Sport Rifles.
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Well the HKXM30 is actually both a bullpup and a carbine is you look at p. 37 in RG do I guess you could go all the way back to SMG (+2) since it practically doesn't have a barrel. But maybe for balancing stay at +4
Thanks for everyone's comments though. I wanted to get s feel about what others thought about it.
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Does it use the Assault Rifle Skill / Ranges or the SMG Skill / Ranges ?
Either its an AR or its a SMG, now as an AR if its Bullpup then drop it down to +4 sure.
But AFAIK there is nothing in the rules to say a carbine is any different than a regular AR by size, range, skill, etc etc.
BTW, Ultimax Rain Forest Carbine from Gun Heaven 3 would be another Carbine.
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It's a modular rifle that can be made into a carbine. Its rule states it uses assault rifle DV but SMG range when built as as such.
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It's a modular rifle that can be made into a carbine. Its rule states it uses assault rifle DV but SMG range when built as as such.
DV can vary from weapon to weapon, but SMG range is SMG range.
So in that case, I'd say drop the concealment modifier down to +2 then.