Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Jack_Spade on <11-21-14/0548:57>
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By RAW the gasmask is a pretty useless item. It may make you immune to inhalation vector toxins, but there is only one (nausea gas) that relies exclusively on inhalation. In every other situation (safe for wearing a chemical sealed full body armor) you are better served with a lvl 6 respirator that provides you with 6 dice for your resistance test.
In effect that makes an outright immunity worse than a resistance bonus.
How do you handle that? Ignore that the Gasmask exists? Give 6 resistance bonus dice like a maxed respirator? Require chemical protection armor mod together with gasmask/respirator and only count the lowest bonus?
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How can Immunity be worse than +6 resistance dice?
If Neurostun comes into contact with your skin, it is applied as contact vector, so the respirator won't help.
In fact, because of so many toxins having multiple ways to affect you, the respirator seems more useless, because the gasmask can supply you with air.
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It boils down to "how do dual-vector contact+inhalation toxins work". A matter of debate without official clarification. Do you grab the best, the worst, do you average? It rather depends on the GM. I'd go with best or average myself. (Average of immunity and dice translating to a Power reduction.)
Mind you, under the worst scenario the respirator is ALSO useless, since you lack any resistance versus the contact part.
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This has not much to do with the rules, but a respirator is still possible to wear in a city environment (a lot of people do because of the air polution). If you walk in downtown Seattle with a gasmask, people (and especially KE) will be asking more questions than you can/want to answer.
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This has not much to do with the rules, but a respirator is still possible to wear in a city environment (a lot of people do because of the air polution). If you walk in downtown Seattle with a gasmask, people (and especially KE) will be asking more questions than you can/want to answer.
Really? They are both completely legal and easy to pick up at your local Stuffer Shack or what have you. It's not a bad idea to wear a Gas Mask through some of the more polluted areas in town.
Granted, I will give you the Downtown Seattle part, that will most certainly draw attention. So will a respirator IMO. A Gas Mask more so.
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Always worth covering your bases with some chem protection on your armour. Gives resistance to contact vector that way too
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I think Aaron said in the FAQ thread a while ago that if something provides a bonus against or immunity against one vector, it provides it to the whole thing. His word is not god, but a lot of what he's said had become errata.
From what I've heard of stuff like tear gas, this makes sense. You can't just hold your breath against tear gas, but a gas mask prevents it from coming into contact with any mucus membranes in addition to preventing you from breathing it, so it doesn't effect you. Is that right?
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I think Aaron said in the FAQ thread a while ago that if something provides a bonus against or immunity against one vector, it provides it to the whole thing. His word is not god, but a lot of what he's said had become errata.
From what I've heard of stuff like tear gas, this makes sense. You can't just hold your breath against tear gas, but a gas mask prevents it from coming into contact with any mucus membranes in addition to preventing you from breathing it, so it doesn't effect you. Is that right?
I don't know if they still do it but anyone who went through Army basic at through the 80's can tell you exactly what it is like (at least for CS gas.) For me the effect on skin was minimal, the effect on eyes was about the same as getting some smoke from the BBQ in the face but the affect on the lungs was pretty extreme. For me it was sucking in a lungful of water. In reality the effect on a given person can vary considerably from person to person.
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I don't know if they still do it but anyone who went through Army basic at through the 80's can tell you exactly what it is like (at least for CS gas.) For me the effect on skin was minimal, the effect on eyes was about the same as getting some smoke from the BBQ in the face but the affect on the lungs was pretty extreme. For me it was sucking in a lungful of water. In reality the effect on a given person can vary considerably from person to person.
They were still doing it in the late 90s. I'm pretty sure they're still doing it now. My experience was similar. The skin contact wasn't really much more than an annoying tingle, although I would bet it might get worse over time. For me, the eyes was a pretty searing pain. Like you, the inhalation took the cake. I saw a few people vomit and a lot of people had, uh, CONSIDERABLE mucus generation once they cleared the chamber.
One of the games I play in developed a house rule that splits the DV and Effects among the vectors if there are multiple. For instance, if someone gets hit with CS gas, then they are taking 4DV & Nausea from Inhalation + 4DV & Disorientation from the Contact. If you're wearing a gas mask, you don't have to worry about the former, just resist the latter. Otherwise, you roll against each with the appropriate protection. It does make toxins somewhat less of a threat, but usually only if you're well prepared or have high BOD + WIL attributes.
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I think Aaron said in the FAQ thread a while ago that if something provides a bonus against or immunity against one vector, it provides it to the whole thing. His word is not god, but a lot of what he's said had become errata.
Actually I think he said it's up to the GM.
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I had a similar experience to those already mentioned.
It also might be a factor that SR 4 & 5 Gas Masks are "Air Replacement devices" while modern day Gas Masks are Filter type devices more akin to SR's Respirator in function.
Gas Mask: This air-supplied respirator completely covers the user’s face and provides immunity to inhalation-vector toxins (Toxins, p. 254). It comes with a 1-hour clean air supply, and can be attached to larger air tanks. It cannot be combined with a regular respirator.
Gas mask: This air-supplied re-breather completely covers your face and gives you immunity to inhalation-vector toxin attacks (Toxins, Drugs, and BTLs, p. 408). It comes with a one-hour clean-air supply (replacements cost 40 nuyen) and can be attached to larger air tanks. It cannot be combined with a regular respirator.
Wireless: The gas mask analyzes and gives you information about the surrounding air that you’re not breathing.
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SR5 Gas Mask are more like 2014 full masks used for diving....
(http://mcdn.scuba.com/images/masks/Ocean-Reef-Neptune-Space-Predator-Full-Face-Mask-with-2nd-Stage-Regulator.jpg)
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/cache-pics-orig/30/10837_image_bf84e9c058dc88fe3b9c095d78680972.jpeg)
(http://www.airlinebyjsink.com/userfiles/mantisblack.gif)
(http://casanovasadventures.com/catalog/dive/4068.6.jpg)
(http://mcdn.scuba.com/images/masks/Ocean-Reef-Neptune-Space-Full-Face-Mask-with-Hookah-2nd-Stage.jpg)
(http://hs-design.com/hsDNA/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/next-gen-repiratory-protection-system-686x1024.png)
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This is how I picture a SR5 Respirator
(https://dtsft.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/bane.jpg)
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Neither is exactly subtle, but they are both common and accepted in a society that is overrun with polluted cities ...
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I always encourage my players to get gas masks and micro-tranceivers in their ballistic masks. Anything beyond that is entirely up to them, but those two things are crucial on almost every run.
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Complelty silly but I spent allot of time going through Gas chambers, I started volunteering when I was in Korea and learned to piggy back off different units schedule chamber time. It bugged me that the gas had such a strong effect on me so I would spend as much time in the chamber unmasked as possible....then it became a drill of how effective I could move in the small space while under the effect.....to be completely honest the stuff effected me just the same as on the first day, no matter the exposure. But I got efficient under the exposure and could last upwards of multiple min within the chamber while still being able to field strip and M-16/SAW.......always wished I could have fired live rounds at targets while under the effect :(.....actually came to enjoy going to the chamber...In about 6 years I entered upwards of a hundred times, while most of my peers and soldiers would enter just once or twice a year.
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:o
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actually came to enjoy going to the chamber...In about 6 years I entered upwards of a hundred times, while most of my peers and soldiers would enter just once or twice a year.
100 exposures over 6 years ( 2160 days) so needing a CS gas 'hit' every 21.6 days.
Congratulations, you are somewhere between Mild and Moderate Addiction: Tear Gas :P
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Moderate with the occasional withdrawal effects.
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Can anyone find a web-link for a picture of the Felini Med Breather from SR2's Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life, pictured on the 3rd full-color page between pg 32 & 33?
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Can anyone find a web-link for a picture of the Felini Med Breather from SR2's Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life, pictured on the 3rd full-color page between pg 32 & 33?
(http://i.imgur.com/YXPZkyL.png)
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Yup, that's it, the Original RAW Respirator.
Some yuppie hoods could even go this route during Flu Seasons.
(http://www.yourprops.com/movieprops/original/498bf5ebb85f3/Ultraviolet-JP-girl-costume-2.jpg)
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The Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life p. 74 Fellini-Med Breather
This new particulate matter filter cleans the air you breathe using electronic precipiation, and the new-for-'52 Fillini-Med products. The new model has a lower profile, and its more flexible material softly cups the mouth. A gentle clip of patented SoftTouch(tm) holds the nose closed. Completely self-contained, the Fillini-Med Breather dispenses with intrusive, gugly battery packs. A single 4mm Geltech(tm) energy cell powers the Breather for up to 60 days of continuous use.
The Fellini-Med Breather clips neatly onto the lapels of today's high-collar jackets, and comes in a wide range of designer colors and textures.
(Fellini-Med Breathers start at just 350¥, including one Geltech energy cell and two replacement filters. Additional filters cost 45¥ each.)
>>>>> [Beware. These breathers filter out particles like smog, but they do squat about gases like carbon monoxide or Neuro-stun VIII.] <<<<<
---Nova (16:11:49/2-23-53)
>>>>> [I got a chummer with the disturbing habit of coughing his fragging guts out when he breathes cordite smoke. Usually at the worst possible times, like in the middle of a firefight. We set him up with a Fellini-Med Breather, and it shut him right up.] <<<<<
---Zonk (06:14:31/3-6-53)
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The gas mask is always useful. I remember being in a situation were our team had to recover a black box from a downed drone in an dump that housed ghouls. The stench of rotten flesh in the air was so bad that if you didn't have a gas mask, you were taking penalties or making composure tests. Our Troll Adept Tank who thought he was cool ended up being useless in combat because he was too busy vomiting all over the place.
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While this does make sense that contact/inhalation vector toxins do affect both skin and lungs simultaneously, I would houserule that if you ran into a dual vector gas, a gas mask wouldn't provide immunity but halve the power.
It's not completely negating the effect because there's still contact, but it's reducing it as you're not breathing it.
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I ditched the hassle of dual vectors, and simply use them as a guide to which delivery systems can be used with what.
Gas grenade? Inhalation vector. Capsule rounds / Super Squirt? Contact vector. Injection darts? Injection vector.
(plus some edge cases like a sealed room with a gas grenade, or a clip of broken darts)
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My personal take on dual-vectors is that you have to have protection from both agents, otherwise you get hit with the whole she-bang. This is mostly due to my CBRN experience, where I know a couple drops of a nerve agent on your hand can kill you in minutes, much less breathing it in. That said, I think the vectors are a little messed up. CS on your body ain't going to do jack nor shite if you've ever had chicken pox. Breathing it in or getting it in your eyes is another matter (also a good way to clear out your sinuses when you're sick).
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My personal take on it is that there's two sorts of 'contact' vector - there's direct contact (i.e. the couple drops of nerve agent on your hand) and indirect contact (such as an aersolized something-or-other - gas grenade, where it's essentially microdrops, and thus microamounts). Any sort of agent that's designed for standard two-drops-on-his-forehead-and-dead-in-the-morning direct contact will, when aersolized, make you pretty sick - after you spend five or ten minutes in it, and the amounts, microscopic in comparison to the 'standard' amount, finally build up to a dosage level that matters. If it's DESIGNED to be aersolized skin-contact nasty, then you're screwed, and breathing it in is going to screw you over harder and faster.
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I don't know if they still do it but anyone who went through Army basic at through the 80's can tell you exactly what it is like (at least for CS gas.) For me the effect on skin was minimal, the effect on eyes was about the same as getting some smoke from the BBQ in the face but the affect on the lungs was pretty extreme. For me it was sucking in a lungful of water. In reality the effect on a given person can vary considerably from person to person.
They were still doing it in the late 90s. I'm pretty sure they're still doing it now. My experience was similar. The skin contact wasn't really much more than an annoying tingle, although I would bet it might get worse over time. For me, the eyes was a pretty searing pain. Like you, the inhalation took the cake. I saw a few people vomit and a lot of people had, uh, CONSIDERABLE mucus generation once they cleared the chamber.
I deployed in 2008, and I went through the gas chamber as prep for that. They made us stand there in our gas masks for a while to make sure we had a good seal, then they made us take off the masks to get a hit of the gas. I don't really recall having any problems with just contact vector, except you don't want to rub your eyes until you've washed up. Even standing there without a mask wasn't too bad until I actually took a breath of it.