Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: farfromnice on <12-09-14/1506:43>
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normally, as a GM, I think that I am good a defending myself from Matrix and Mundane attack
but a sector where I'm unimaginative is astral and magic security. I'm tired to put only astral wall, astral vine and spirits to protect my research facility and other things
does people have good ideas or maybe there GM put some pretty thing in front of them ?
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Hell Hounds are dual-natured and can be trained to have higher skills than the book lists, Barghasts make for nasty guard critters with their paralyzing howl and ability to Fear, there can be glowmoss that lights up when something astral comes nearby and triggers an alarm, and you could simply make the place a nasty experiment where the basement has a rather horrendous background count in it.
Critter Powers are especially dangerous because they cannot be counterspelled, which makes them rather nasty for mages.
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If you really want to protect something from astral stuff, put it underground. You can't go underground astrally, except through air holes (like elevator shafts). Those you protect by high grade wards, spirits on guard and some sort of glowmoss alarm thing.
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Both of these are great suggestions, and if you put hell hounds or other dual-natured critters above ground, but the facility underground, you'll give the mage in your group a hell of a challenge. The new Aetherology book gives a LOT of good ideas for really advanced evil stuff that you can put in your game too. Some of these things aren't really forces you can fight against, either - like a mana ebb. Might be an interesting game for the group to try to re-aspect some territory as well. Magical content is great for games when you want to reward your players with more karma than normal, but less nuyen than normal (so-called "Robin Hood" games).
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For high-value targets (like something a shadowrunner team would hit), remember the target has home field advantage. We tend to forget ritual magic because it's not as useful for shadowrunners, but if you have the home ground (and corporate funding for reagents) some rituals can be really cool. Watchers (yes, they're spirits, but they don't take as many resources to create as regular spirits do to bind), all the fun kinds of Wards, Kything (forces astral forms to manifest--this is a nice surprise for the mage who thinks he can solve all his problems by projecting). It looks like Kything requires an initiate, though (it's under the Sensing school, p. 155, Street Grimoire), as do some of the wards, and Kything doesn't last too long.
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I had one of my players , in SR4, who stak a camouflage armor, an insibility spell and the spirit power concealment
It make a lot of malus to see that bastard :P
any thoughts on that ?
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Astral Perception would have zero penalties against them, so all they'd have is their normal Sneaking. There's also tripwires, pressure plates and such. Also airlock doors. If a door opens but nobody is visible, you'd close and gas them.
Besides, cameras roll 9 dice versus Invisibility, and if the corridor is straight without the ability to hide there would be no possibility of rolling Stealth versus the camera. Which means that if it pierces the Invisibility it will spot him in such a location. In other locations, such as an office, he'd still get to roll a sneaking test which means the armor and Concealment actually help.
A camera has ~1/7 odds versus 5 hits and ~1/24 odds versus 6 hits, so given a number of cameras inside a facility there's a decent shot one will spot him if they designed the place smart enough. Also, audible Perception would simply be penalized by the Concealment so I hope he's good in sneaking.
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But just because the camera might spot you, there's still hope that nobody's realizing it at that moment. Coffee breaks, interesting news on the trid or a sports game as well as having too many cameras to watch at the same time can all pose enough distraction.
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That's assuming there isn't an Agent watching over the systems and identifying trespassers. That way you'll have to combine the sneaking with a hacker that makes the system believe the sneaker is legit.
I need to point something out though: OP asked for ways to deal with a player like that. I offered methods. So while yes, each method has obvious downsides, that's not really what matters here, there's no need to go 'add complication X to give the player a break' when the entire idea is to actually give the player a hard time for once.
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You can have a spirit that can conceal you on the astral as well. At least in 4th you have. The armour mod won't help you, but having the spirit conceal you also on the astral can help some.
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5th Edition Concealment is a Physical power, which means it won't work on the Astral. The spells Manascape and/or Invisibiliy are both Mana spells however, and could conceivably work.
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The 'dual-natured can conceal themselves+others from astral detection' clause was not copied to SR5. Invisibility works against Physical detection so wouldn't work against astral detection since your aura is still visible on the astral.
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normally it was an advanced invisibility spell, the description said something like : bend light, not an illusion
it means laser and cameras will not see the player. Microwave or sonar sensor and other nasty thing like that will but come the Spirit concealing them. As I understand them spirit are concealing from being seen and being heard, the moment it call a spirit with 7 of force I said to my self : Ha ! crap
most guard don't have enough perception to see through a concealment of 7
pressure plate and old fashion trip wire can solve the problem "is there someone in my facility ?" but don't solve the problem " how I'm suppose to shoot at it"
the Airlock door is a good one though
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it means laser and cameras will not see the player.
The cameras would still get to resist with Object Resistance 9. If they succeed they pierce the Invisibility because it fails to fool them.
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the last time they do something like that I drop Awaken Vine from the roof in all the corridor of the facility. Each time something with an awaken aura pass threw the vine they died so the security was able to "see" where they were/go
after that I bomb them with smoke grenade with glow moss particles, it was not the best solution but it was enough to make them improvised. So they blow a wall and jump at which point the security had enough evidence of dangers to call Knight Errant for support
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@Micheal Chandra : could show me where are the rules for object resistance, the Index in the core SR5 only show the Object Resistance Table
Thanks by the way to remember me some rules I forgot :P
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The different spell-types all state when Object Resistance applies. Active Detection Spells are opposed by Object Resistance for mundane objects, Physical Illusions face OR versus non-living devices, Physical Manipulation is usually defended against by OR as well. Sensors are 9, drones are 15 though I would use Drone OR only against Detection and Manipulation, not against Illusions since those are only detectable by the sensors.
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Remember not to overdo it with your anti-mage security: on a CMP I participated in recently, I tripped a facility's Glomoss security layer with a long-range Clairvoyance spell (fortunately my spirit was done using it to scout and I had erased my signature by the time security arrived), so I used a long-range detection spell (at low enough Force that it left no traces) to trigger the Glomoss on random intervals. By the time we actually broke into the place, the response team had been downgraded 1 or 2 Professional Rating levels, the place was scheduled for maintenance the next day, and a dozen pedestrians had been arrested for littering and jaywalking by annoyed cops.
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Ho ! I see it now ! Thank you
Does the spirit power Concealment affect the object resistance test ?
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It does not. Only an actual Perception test is penalized. In other words:
1: The Invisibility faces Object Resistance or normal resistance test of any perceiver.
1a: If not pierced, only audio perception is possible.
1b: If pierced, normal perception is possible.
2: If a Perception test is possible and the circumstances do not allow for a stealth check against that kind of Perception test (such as a visual perception test in an empty corridor), the target is automatically perceived.
3: If a Perception test is possible and a stealth check is possible, an opposed test takes place.
4: Concealment works against the perceiver in this opposed test.
4a: For visual tests camouflage may apply.
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Mou HAHAHAHA *evil GM laugh*
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Keep in mind that while there are tons of cool and creative security measures available in the Sixth World, budgets are still things so no single building is going to be able to afford them all. Maybe a secure site has one or two curveballs to throw at the players, but most of it will still come down to how smart and well lead/trained the sec guards are.
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yes, this is normally my first priority when designing security measures
but, even, for low key buildings some "interesting" security should be other thing than a ward and a watcher
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You can also reduce the dice pools of people sneaking by quite mundane means to increase the chance to spot them.
For instance, you could force them to walk down a narrow corridor with a freshly cleaned and polished linoleum or waxed surface. Every step has the potential to make a small squeaky sound (we all know that sound by experience).
I once had a paranoid Yakuza boss build a security room to detect intruders where the ground was covered with thousands of tiny pebbles. Cameras were looking at the pepples with pattern recognition software running - sounding a silent alert if the stone pattern changed.
Smart runners found a way across the room without moving any pebbles of course, which lead to security measure two: if the door at the end was ever opened without any pattern change in the stones detected, the alarm would be sounded aswell.
It was a nice challenge for the team. It was unexpected and both, magician and hacker had to work together to overcome it. Was a fun evening.
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I usually approach security measures as a mechanism geared toward getting the team to work together as opposed to a means to hamper a single operator.
From this perspective, McGuffin's Yakuza Boss I judge as good roleplaying making situation.
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Lucifer Lamp (AR p.66) and FAB I-III (AR p.65, SM p.126)
FAB III is mean little FAB mutant that chomps magic. And Lucifer light is dual, allowing astral objects and beings to throw shadows.
edit:
sorry bad habit, i edit it
and yes Hans is right, S. means Seite - german word for page
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Sternenwind, what are those books and page references you've listed? S.66?
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Namikaze
Based on the Sternenwind username, my guess is S. means Seite, which is German for page.
Arsenal, pages 65 and 66. Street Magic p126.
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Ahhhh, that makes a LOT more sense then. Thank you! :)
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Do not forget that Astral Space is another geographical plane. There are things and people there, roaming and rushing around, that have nothing to do with the runners or whatever they are running. When a magician projects astrally, there are other people and spirits around, and they don't have to be aggressive or predatory. Such as:
- A magician from another runner team, just scouting out the same facility for a run next week
- Same as above, but at an astrally protected facility. This magician is lost, keeps slamming into glow moss/ivy, is about to hit the deadly hour and is willing to ask for help getting out.
- Just as the party's magician is about to cross the property line unto Corp territory, up janders and old buddy flashing through the astral. This old buddy now wants to stop and gab and catch up.
- A watcher spirit, just hanging around. " HI! How are you? My master calls me Jobi. What's your name? Want to play?" and so on, and so on.
- A dragon, also projecting. It should fly by, super fast, and scare them a little.
Really want to freak your players out? Next time they project, have a big, fat, Force 12+ free spirit waiting there. Just watching them. A roiling mass of air, with firey red eyes. Those eyes are BURNING into the mages. The spirit doesn't talk, it doesn't respond in any way, it just follows your mages. STARING at them. With those BURNING RED EYES. Doesn't matter where they go; into the Corp facility/back home/ to another plane, the spirit is following them. STARING AT them...
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Another version of Mr Black's staring spirit: have two low force watchers there, and every two minutes another one shows up, and all they do is stare at the character. Makes players paranoid in short order.
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"Tutor" from Threats is a very interesting entity too. "It"'s very helpful until you are on the brink of death ...