Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: gradivus on <01-17-15/1954:29>
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Improved Physical Attribute... is it like Attribute Boost, 4 separate powers, one for each physical attribute or is it just one power and every level you can make a different choice?
MASTER OF TAIJIQUAN
While people around the world practice taijiquan—a.k.a.
t’ai chi—for its defense-training and health benefits, an
adept mastering taijiquan flows like a river in combat,
especially with multiple melee combatants. He uses
the various attackers’ strengths to maneuver their
strikes against each other. When the adept successfully
blocks a melee attack from one attacker with Counterstrike,
he may choose instead to redirect that attack
against a second attacker. The second attacker would
have to defend against the first attack with the number
of hits equal to the adept’s Counterstrike test. The base
Damage Value is equal to the melee attack from the
first attacker. This mastery of kinetic energy only works
in combat against multiple melee opponents. You can’t
make an attacker hit himself, though you can taunt him
with the promise to do so. Prerequisite: Counterstrike
ENHANCEMENTS METAMAGICS
Barrage Domain of the Warrior
Master of Taijiquan
>> STREET GRIMOIRE <<
<< SECRETS OF THE INITIATES 159
Jay Dee
When does the attack occur? As soon as you block or on your next initiative pass?
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I'd always thought it was 4 different powers.
But I see now that reading it, you could get a different reading & just have it be a single power that you choose what it affects like the Improved Potential.
Under that reading you could have up to 16 levels of Improved Attribute, 4 for each.
The other limit but you'd be capped by the Level/Magic issue.
Other than that limit I really don't see what it would matter in game play. It would work the same mechanically pretty much.
Now here is a question.
Do boosts stack with permanent attribute increases since they are not permanent?
Is it simply whichever is greater is what applies?
Or, would they add together since they don't operate on the same level, one is just dice pool after all.
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Improved Physical Attribute increases a single physical Attribute by 1.
You may increase any physical Attribute of your choice, up to 4 times each, and have to pay the PP cost for every single increase.
You can, f.Ex., pick 2x Improved Reaction.
Please don't post yellow texts.
The Attack occurs in the initiative pass of the enemy who you just blocked, aka. right away.
Imagine it as you deflecting the blow or artfully stepping out of the way so he hits his mate.
Edit: Yup. Name doesn't make a difference.
Boosts should stack, but your augmented maximum might get in the way.
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Sorry about the yellow text, I thought I picked the burnt orange
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IT BURNS! :P
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Improved [Physical Attribute] is effectively four seperate powers, yes - Improved Strength, Improved Body, yadda yadda.
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Sorry about the yellow text, I thought I picked the burnt orange
You could , like....
EDIT Your Post
HougH!
Medicineman
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Now here is a question.
Do boosts stack with permanent attribute increases since they are not permanent?
Is it simply whichever is greater is what applies?
Or, would they add together since they don't operate on the same level, one is just dice pool after all.
They stack up to your augmented maximum, IPA just does more than helping your dicepools.
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They stack up to your augmented maximum, IPA just does more than helping your dicepools.
So if you have Improved Agility 1 & Agility Boost 1 (Magic-6) & toss your 7 boost dice for 2 hits, you would have 3 extra dice total ?
Interesting. Is that your interpretation or has it been asked/answered before?
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They stack up to your augmented maximum, IPA just does more than helping your dicepools.
So if you have Improved Agility 1 & Agility Boost 1 (Magic-6) & toss your 7 boost dice for 2 hits, you would have 3 extra dice total ?
Interesting. Is that your interpretation or has it been asked/answered before?
Why wouldn't it do that. Neither power says they don't stack with other sources. They are pretty explicit about limitations of that nature. Both powers state you can go up to your augmented max.
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They stack up to your augmented maximum, IPA just does more than helping your dicepools.
So if you have Improved Agility 1 & Agility Boost 1 (Magic-6) & toss your 7 boost dice for 2 hits, you would have 3 extra dice total ?
Interesting. Is that your interpretation or has it been asked/answered before?
It's been asked and answered before. That's the fairly common interpretation.
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Not that Improved Attribute is a great pick.
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It has it's advantages.
If an Adept uses abilities that use his max magic, every little bit helps, so augmentations aren't always the best option. That aside, improving Body isn't actually easy without magic.
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Not that Improved Attribute is a great pick.
It's a very good pick once you get your attributes maxed or start raking in extra power-points with Initiation. Of course, it's only good for adepts who are focusing on the more physical things.
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Not that Improved Attribute is a great pick.
It's a very good pick once you get your attributes maxed or start raking in extra power-points with Initiation. Of course, it's only good for adepts who are focusing on the more physical things.
Compared to Attribute Boost, not really. Attribute Boost [Agility] 4 is the same price as Improved Agility 1. Magic 6 + Agility Boost 4 is a 10-dice pool to raise Agility 1-for-1 per hit and it's likely you'll get more than 1 hit on that pool, which would make it pretty hard to do worse with it than the flat +1. Hell, take boost 2 for 8 dice at half the PP price of the flat +1 and you'll still be likely to get at least 2 hits.
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Not that Improved Attribute is a great pick.
It's a very good pick once you get your attributes maxed or start raking in extra power-points with Initiation. Of course, it's only good for adepts who are focusing on the more physical things.
Compared to Attribute Boost, not really. Attribute Boost [Agility] 4 is the same price as Improved Agility 1. Magic 6 + Agility Boost 4 is a 10-dice pool to raise Agility 1-for-1 per hit and it's likely you'll get more than 1 hit on that pool, which would make it pretty hard to do worse with it than the flat +1. Hell, take boost 2 for 8 dice at half the PP price of the flat +1 and you'll still be likely to get at least 2 hits.
And then there's Strength and Body. Attribute Boost doesn't apply to melee weapon damage or a few other things, and having a higher Body is just nice (extra soak, toxin/drug resistance, more physical health boxes, better endurance, etc.). Sure, Agility and Reaction don't get as much of a benefit from Improved Attribute, but it's not to say Improved Attribute isn't a very useful power. It's sort of nice to not have to activate your boost, which a flat Improvement helps. Also, technically Attribute Boost doesn't make your character faster, as the adept power applies to rolls, not flat stats like your Agility for movement rates.
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Compared to Attribute Boost, not really. Attribute Boost [Agility] 4 is the same price as Improved Agility 1. Magic 6 + Agility Boost 4 is a 10-dice pool to raise Agility 1-for-1 per hit and it's likely you'll get more than 1 hit on that pool, which would make it pretty hard to do worse with it than the flat +1. Hell, take boost 2 for 8 dice at half the PP price of the flat +1 and you'll still be likely to get at least 2 hits.
And then there is the Way of the Athlete, which makes Improved Physical Attribute (Agility) cost only 0.5PP, causing no drain, always active and increasing your movement rate as well as helping with things like jumping distances, some reloading mechanisms.
Not everyone plays a gunbunny that can attack with simple actions.
Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction) could be the 4th point you want for your augmented maximum, when you're already at IR3. They are really nice for rounding a build out.
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Not everyone plays a gunbunny that can attack with simple actions.
With Iajutsu a Melee Attack becomes a simple Action and for an Adept with Quickdraw even a free Action ;)
Get rid of the Idea that a melee attack is always a complex Action (most often yes, but not always)
with a very fast Dance
Medicineman
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Not everyone plays a gunbunny that can attack with simple actions.
With Iajutsu a Melee Attack becomes a simple Action and for an Adept with Quickdraw even a free Action ;)
Get rid of the Idea that a melee attack is always a complex Action (most often yes, but not always)
with a very fast Dance
Medicineman
Mentioning Iaijutsu is of no use, since it is another simple action to be used. So you can't combine Attribute Boost, Iaijutsu and a Melee Attack in the same Action Phase.
Additionally I doubt the combination of Rapid Draw and Iaijutsu is even possible, since both modify the Quick Draw Simple Action independently of each other. And since you already used one method to draw the weapon, you can't use the other to draw it (at least if it's the same) again.
PS:
Additionally I find it quite astonishing that Rapid Draw would allow you to attack as a Free Action. Maybe they forgot that they changed Quick Draw to include an attack during the edition change?
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I don't think so, Lucean. You still only get one attack per IP.
If you're looking for a faster Iaijutsu or Rapid Draw with the possibility of no lost actions, try Run & Gun's Gear Access armour mod.
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@ Lucean
I didn't write anything about multiple Attacks
ONLY that with Ijajutsu a Melee Attack turns into a simple Action and with Quickdraw into a free Action
Get rid of the Idea that a melee attack is always a complex Action (most often yes, but not always)
;)
so a swordstrike with Ijajutsu and Quickdraw is a free action. the char now has two simple Actions or a complex Action, but he can't attack anymore, because you're allowed to attack only once per Iniphase !
thats RAW
with a RAW Dance
Medicineman
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@ Lucean
I didn't write anything about multiple Attacks
ONLY that with Ijajutsu a Melee Attack turns into a simple Action and with Quickdraw into a free Action
Get rid of the Idea that a melee attack is always a complex Action (most often yes, but not always)
;)
so a swordstrike with Ijajutsu and Quickdraw is a free action. the char now has two simple Actions or a complex Action, but he can't attack anymore, because you're allowed to attack only once per Iniphase !
thats RAW
with a RAW Dance
Medicineman
yup that way you can boost and aim!
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so a swordstrike with Ijajutsu and Quickdraw is a free action. the char now has two simple Actions or a complex Action, but he can't attack anymore, because you're allowed to attack only once per Iniphase !
thats RAW
Additionally I doubt the combination of Rapid Draw and Iaijutsu is even possible, since both modify the Quick Draw Simple Action independently of each other.
I disagree.
They don't mention stacking, why do you assume they do? And it's an assumption here on your part, so claiming that it's RAW is maybe a bit much.
It would certainly qualify for "Rule of Cool", but I wouldn't use this interpretation in my game.
@Imveros:
Sadly, Take Aim doesn't work for melee:
"A character may take aim with a ready firearm, bow, or throwing weapon as a Simple Action."
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Medicineman
I don't think the adept power Rapid Draw and Iaijutsu interact that way.
The Iaijutsu technique is an action in and of itself that allows the martial arts practitioner to use the Quick Draw Simple Action for any weapon. The Rapid Draw adept power allows a user to employ the Quick Draw action with a reduced threshold and as a Free Action.
The reason I'm opposed to the two interacting is two-fold.
1. The Run & Gun section on Martial Arts clearly indicate that magic and martial arts do not mix well.
2. Rapid Draw directly affects the quick draw action, while Iaijutsu is a separate action for all intents and purposes
That being said, even if you were to allow an Adept martial artist to use both, the effects would be limited to the Adept drawing his sword as a free action and attacking with a simple action. This doesn't severely unbalance anything in my opinion, as the ability to use a an additional Simple Action does nothing to the limit of one attack per action phase, and is of somewhat marginal use as I see it.
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... magic and martial arts not mixing well is one of my main beefs with Run & Gun. An adept with martial arts should kick serious ass. He should go up a wall like a scalded monkey with a tiger after it, fall from a great height and make a perfect three-point landing with no damage, and all the other things that someone with skill should get when it's backed up by Power. I understand why it was done, but IMO it was a bad idea, because if paying twice to get one really good trick isn't sufficient to deter someone, then you should allow someone who's paid twice to have a really good trick.
I dunno. IMO (and game), despite the R&G rulings, I say they stack. But hey, that's my gaming.