Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Ishmell on <02-03-15/0235:51>
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How obvious is a weapon mount on say a Suzuki mirage? Could it be concealed? Like a pop out system?
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By default, all weapon mounts are constantly visible. Expect to see pop-up turrets and the like once we get a rigger book.
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By default, all weapon mounts are constantly visible. Expect to see pop-up turrets and the like once we get a rigger book.
any Idea /Hint /Hunch when it'll appear ?
with a Dance of anticipation
Medicineman
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All we know is Data Trails is next... after that I don't think much is known for Crunch books.
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I recall Michael Chandra making a claim that they were all concealed, but I don't remember his reasoning. Maybe because they're a fixed position with only a little swivel and remote-fire only? I can only wish, because otherwise it's... Sigh, a bit part of being a rigger in combat is having shit with guns on it, but you can't do that if they're all painfully obvious.
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By default, all weapon mounts are constantly visible. Expect to see pop-up turrets and the like once we get a rigger book.
any Idea /Hint /Hunch when it'll appear ?
with a Dance of anticipation
Medicineman
You do not ask when the Rigger Book comes, for it is has been foretold to be a herald of the coming of the Next Edition. :P
I suppose drones should have internal capacity listed for those that can support pop up turrets vs those that just mount on the outside only
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I've been kind to my rigger and made it a remote pop-up turret on his van.
But it depends vehicle and number at my table simply because there is no information about it at the moment.
Some will see this as way too kind and easily exploitable but no one has tried yet so no need for hardness.
(Makes me miss my very first sourcebook; the very first "Rigger Black Book")
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My opinion as a GM only; I'd work with my players on this. If someone wants a hidden weapon mount on his Roadmaster, null sheen. On a Suzuki Mirage, it becomes more about what type of weapon; anything up to SMG, sure, why not. Larger than an SMG and you're looking at a weapon that would take up a lot of space in a small bike. While a Harley-Davidson Scorpion CAN take a heavy weapon mount (or two standard weapon mounts) I find it hard to believe that you could successfully conceal a machine gun (or two assault rifles) within the body of such a bike, so to my mind those would be external weapon mounts.
Most drones would require external mounts as I see it; the ubiquitous Roto-Drone (now made redundant by the F-B Bumblebee) seems like it would be a hard sell for internal weapon mounts.
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I think if mounts were concealable it would be mentioned in the description of the mount. I think it will be an option in the forthcoming rigger book as mentioned in legend. However, in the meantime I think a GM should come up with a house rule to allow it since it is such a important feature for riggers.
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I'd do something like this:
#Internal Weapon Mounts Body/4.5 rnd down (Heavy still counts as two weapon mounts).Weapons on internal mounts receive the benefit of concealability. A perception (4) test is needed to notice the external door, but does not give a clue as to what's hidden underneath.
So a Bulldog with 16 Body has a minigun in an internal mount, it's used up 9 of it's 16Body and so can either have one other internal weapon mount, two external weapon mounts or one external heavy mount.
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Most bikes can't handle something concealed, i.e. pop-up; there's not a lot of concealment on them, most of a bike's technical stuff is visible. Anything larger (or blockier), not a problem.
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As long as you use restricted firearms and have a license, and are willing to rotate licenses after a run. You should be fine.
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Most bikes can't handle something concealed, i.e. pop-up; there's not a lot of concealment on them, most of a bike's technical stuff is visible. Anything larger (or blockier), not a problem.
Barrel in the headlight!
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Barrel in the headlight is an interesting idea.
However, the description of a weapon mount in SR5 main book is a turreted system.
What your describing is a fixed mount.
We'll just have to wait and see what SR5s version of fixed mounts, pop-up copulas and what not cost and how much space they take up.
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In my little world they all count as the same, you just get to choose when you install it (fixed, turret etc.) until futher notice. Of course once the rigger book comes out that will change.
Also whether or not a mount on a bike is hidden depends on the weapon mounted. Up to and including SMGs it hidden, after that no way.
Pricing is of course unfair.
Yesterday I thought about adapting the SR1/2 system again (CF) because it is the easiest to work with. Still contemplating though.
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'Barrel in the headlight' is fine - but where's the rest of the weapon? As I said, there are very few bikes that don't have the vast majority of their inner workings exposed.
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Eh, who needs a gas tank? :o
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Gas tank = Flamethrower fuel. Dual purpose. :D
And yes, I know the two are different combustibles. Pedants...
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Eh, who needs a gas tank? :o
heh, back when we played CarWars, we used to rip out the regular fuel tank and fitted it with a 1 gallon jug with a fuel line to it which opened up weight/space for other things like additional ammo and armor because you only needed enough fuel to get around for the one race, which was usually just a couple of laps.
Gas tank = Flamethrower fuel. Dual purpose. :D
And yes, I know the two are different combustibles. Pedants...
Actually you could make a homemade version using gasoline, just won't be as good as using a proper mix that sticks and burns.
Hmm... spirits/elementals can take the form of their element. there are spirits of toxic materials so the element need not be entirely natural.
Wonder what the spell formula for summoning a Napalm or Firewater Elemental would look like. ;)
Sure a regular fire ele is nice, but for those times when you want something special.....
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You could charge them for the mounts in the 4E Arsenal. The concealability rules aren't really that different.
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As long as you use restricted firearms and have a license, and are willing to rotate licenses after a run. You should be fine.
Unfortunately, Weapon Mounts are Forbidden, even if there's a taser on it.
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As long as you use restricted firearms and have a license, and are willing to rotate licenses after a run. You should be fine.
Unfortunately, Weapon Mounts are Forbidden, even if there's a taser on it.
Touche. Forgot about that. That doesn't make sense...
Riggers can't exist then. I don't like that... I don't like that at all...
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Riggers can't exist then. I don't like that... I don't like that at all...
Riggers can exist just fine. The statement you make is... overly broad. Let's look at the two primary methods of rigger interaction with Shadowrun: vehicles and drones. Vehicles can have weapon mounts installed, but doing so means making a civilian vehicle into a combat vehicle. You can't drive a vehicle like that down the streets of Downtown Seattle without attracting undue attention and warranting some sort of response from authorities. On the flip side, in places where there is no authority (Redmond, Puyallup, stretches of highway), there is no reason to think Forbidden means a damn thing. In fact, you might be prey without some sort of armed vehicle.
Drones on the other hand are unique in that they have an Availability rating that reflects the drone, even with the weapon mounts. For instance a Steel Lynx comes with a heavy weapon mount by default, but is only Restricted. So for those situations in which you are talking about a drone the legality of a weapon turret is factored into the drone's Availability already. Plus, there are plenty of tasks a drone can do without needing any weapon mounts. Drones can perform surveillance, do heavy labor jobs, and even perform medical diagnostics and treatment. All of which allow a rigger to 'exist' just fine.
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Riggers can't exist then. I don't like that... I don't like that at all...
Riggers can exist just fine. The statement you make is... overly broad. Let's look at the two primary methods of rigger interaction with Shadowrun: vehicles and drones. Vehicles can have weapon mounts installed, but doing so means making a civilian vehicle into a combat vehicle. You can't drive a vehicle like that down the streets of Downtown Seattle without attracting undue attention and warranting some sort of response from authorities. On the flip side, in places where there is no authority (Redmond, Puyallup, stretches of highway), there is no reason to think Forbidden means a damn thing. In fact, you might be prey without some sort of armed vehicle.
Drones on the other hand are unique in that they have an Availability rating that reflects the drone, even with the weapon mounts. For instance a Steel Lynx comes with a heavy weapon mount by default, but is only Restricted. So for those situations in which you are talking about a drone the legality of a weapon turret is factored into the drone's Availability already. Plus, there are plenty of tasks a drone can do without needing any weapon mounts. Drones can perform surveillance, do heavy labor jobs, and even perform medical diagnostics and treatment. All of which allow a rigger to 'exist' just fine.
Absolutely agreed. To my mind this is similar to how a silencer weapon modification is Forbidden, but the Remington Suppressor is only Restricted despite having a factory installed silencer.
Riggers need a lot of love from a GM to function effectively, in my opinion, but there's no doubt in my mind that they can exist just fine.
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It sounds like the "forbidden nature of weapon mounts needs to be thought about a bit more.
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I think it would make sense that corporations would drive around with vehicles with weapon mounts to protect VIPs, hazardous materials, or other things of importance that need transportation. They must be able to have a way to drive around within city limits with exposed turrets.
At least with Concealed Turrets it makes sense that they should be forbidden, because they're harder to detect and are an unknown quantity.
But if you're transmitting and leaving a data trail of your license etc. It makes sense to me to make it a restricted item needing a license to own legally. Especially if people would be constantly afraid of go gangs. So they would mount their cars with an AK or Ares Alpha; even if there is no real chance they'd ever be a target of a go gang while they live in Bellevue. But they'd still be paranoid enough to buy one, for the one in a million chance that it happens.
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I think it would make sense that corporations would drive around with vehicles with weapon mounts to protect VIPs, hazardous materials, or other things of importance that need transportation. They must be able to have a way to drive around within city limits with exposed turrets.
In Lagos? Sure. In Seattle? No go.
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Again, like so much of ShadowRun, it depends on what kind of game and where the run is located. Lagos, parts of Chicago, Redmond, any boarder crossing, Z-zones, etc thing get hairy and corp with roll with the big guns, both on vehicles and drones. In a fanciest parts of Seattle, Denver, or Tokyo not going to happen. It will be armored limos, concealed holdouts, mini and micro spy drones, and tasers. Always plan for the right run.