Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Tarislar on <03-05-15/1855:00>
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I went looking for a similar thread but didn't find it, so, like the title says, what is your "Must Have" gear to live in 2070.
For example, I skipped SR4 so something like AR Gloves was completely missed by me in initial purchases, but my GM pointed out that you really need them to do anything with AR (Like flip the page of a virtual menu/list etc etc)
So what are the things that you see as being MUST HAVEs on a purchase list, I don't mean "A weapon" I mean all the other stuff in the gear section.
The overlooked things that you might not think to purchase.
Everyone knows to get Guns, Armor, Credsticks, & Lifestyle, I hope we all know about those, but what about the less common stuff.
Some examples I've come up with.
1. Image Link+AR Gloves, or, Trodes, or, Data Jack.
2. Trauma Patch + Med Kit (3 or 6)
3. Basic clothing *5-10+, &, a bag/backpack/satchel
4. Survival Knife (Its a knife that can be a flashlight or phone, how is this not cool?)
5. Commlink, obviously, &, either Real SIN or Fake SIN or plenty of cash. (Sim Module, Subvocal Mic, &/or Microtransceiver all useful add-ons)
6. Vehicle of some type. (Wageslaves can take the bus, Shadowrunners will likely have issues w/o private transportation)
7. Security Tags, Data Chips, & Plastic Restraints (Ok, not really MUST haves, but, at $5 per 10-pack, they are pretty useful to have.)
8. Tag Eraser, Bug Scanner, White Noise Generator, & Mini-Welder. (Someone in the group really should have these if not everyone)
Anyway that is my basic list of stuff that most everyone should have.
What is on your list of Must Haves for either everyone or every group? (Again, not talking Guns & Armor here but the "other" stuff)
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LIFESTYLE!!! <- Can't stress this enough!
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LIFESTYLE!!! <- Can't stress this enough!
LOL, that one kind of went under Guns & Armor for me, as in really obvious, but good suggestion since some try to get away w/ Streets/Squatter just to save cash.
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A fake SIN or five. I usually get a Rating 4, and at least 2 rating 2s. I might throw in a Rating 1 just in case.
Also, a storage container for stashing stolen loot, preferably with a faraday cage inside of it. Not for resale, but for bartering.
If you get a vehicle, a smuggling compartment so you have somewhere to hide all your illegal drek. :)
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Also, a storage container for stashing stolen loot, preferably with a faraday cage inside of it. Not for resale, but for bartering.
If you get a vehicle, a smuggling compartment so you have somewhere to hide all your illegal drek. :)
I already listed SIN, but, where do you get those 2?
Not in CRB so wondering where they are mentioned with prices?
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can forget your rating 6 respirator, useful as both disguise as well as air cleaning
disposable comlinks, never leave home without a few meta links
lowlight,thermo flash lights, you can see hopefully they cant!
a variety of cred sticks for all situations
Some builds can also benefit greatly from auto injectors with various meds/drugs in them
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can forget your rating 6 respirator, useful as both disguise as well as air cleaning
lowlight,thermo flash lights, you can see hopefully they cant!
Flashlight, doh, How did I miss that.
Some of that stuff I already had listed or isn't "Must Have" to survive.
But the above 2 are the kind of stuff I was looking for.
Thanks
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I'll post again later when I have access to My stuff but I'd recommend a survival kit and credstick at least in addition to your list. Also I think an implanted Comlink/cyberdeck works for dni.
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Trodes so you don't need to pull out your Commlink nor waves your hands in public.
Acid resistant raincoat.
A second lifestyle to lay low (squatter for this is fine, think coffin hotel)
A ration bar in case you can't make it home that night.
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I'll post again later when I have access to My stuff but I'd recommend a survival kit and credstick at least in addition to your list.
Credstick is an obvious one that everyone should know, but Survival Kit, that is a nice addition to the "overlooked" kind of stuff I'm wanting to hear about.
Thanks.
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I like it (knife, lighter, matches, compass, lightweight thermal blanket, several days ration bars, water purification unit and an undefined more). Very handy for a bugout bag wherever your hiding out.
Ok back from work and looking at my characters a few things I don't think have been said yet but I think would be overlooked yet . . .
Electronic Paper
5 yen and it has so many uses such as pasting it on a bunch of walls (predefined drop points you travel) as graffiti with the particular image informing party members you think you're being followed and not to contact you. I know it may not seem must have (I'm filtering this stuff based on that hence no things like holoprojector) but for 5 yen having a piece of hardcopy you can erase and reuse has huge amounts of versatility.
Telescoping mirror
35 yen and a non hackable/blockable way of looking around a corner.
Ultra Glide Industrial Lubricant
35 yen a can and you can not only coat potential breach points as it suggests but if your a little faster spray it on the ground and watch the pursuer slide. May be possible to combine with an atomizer to cover a 1 meter area with 1 complex action.
Various weather clothing
I know you mentioned clothing but I just wanted to point out having clothing suited to your particular environment (hot, cold, rainy) rather than just generic clothing is important.
Magnesium Torch
5 yen and oh so nice a counter to someone with a thermal flashlight.
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Glue sprayer & glue solvent, alternatively, a few rolls of CleenTac.
Stim patch or two, highest rating you can get your hands on.
Grenade loaded with KE IV.
A canister of barrier foam (from WAR!, NOT the same thing as freeze foam).
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Narcojet in some form or another. This has saved more runs then I can think of.
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Respirator R6. 300NY well spent.
Clothing/armour with non-conduct + chem protect. helps against tasers, tear gas and acid rain!
survival kit with extra rations for laying low if the job goes south
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My runner like to carry at least one dose of Láes with them. The memory loss is very useful for those situations when they don't want the target to remember what happened to it or don't want to kill someone and still want him to forget everything about them.
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Duct tape, zip ties, lighter, plastic bag and a mix of several multi- and pockettools. And get those Snake Mesh Socks!! ;D
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considering the size of snakes you could encounter I would say stockings are the better choice, but don't get seen.
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Thanks for the good ideas.
I'll be purchasing some of this stuff before my next mission for sure.
Question.
Aside from a Burner-Commlink, is there a reason to have 2 "good" commlinks?
I know they can have multiple SIN's on them & you can pick which one to display but is there a reason to have 2?
I'm thinking its a good idea in case 1 is confiscated.
So if you have a Fairlight-7 & a Hermes-5, which one would you use for your Fake SIN v/s which one for your Real SIN & Legal info?
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Your comlink can be ID'd and tracked personally I'd try and keep my real SIN, details, expenses all on the real one completely seperate from running. That way if something does go wrong they don't have the details for the comlink stating your Maggie Simpson of 742 evergreen terrace. Personally I'd keep the higher security one from the running as that's more likely to be targeted for hacking and have more important details you want to keep hidden.
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Running one hidden, the other one out in the open? Depending on your needs, this is not a bad idea.
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Okay, so looking like this is a solid set up.
Fairlight-7 = Fake SIN-5, open
Ikon-5 = Real SIN, hidden
Metalink-1 = Burner
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It depends on where you're headed, but the prepaid commlinks from Run Faster are a cheaper burner option.
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I took a glance through Run Faster, but was unable to come up with a satisfactory answer. Did the cheap (20Y) and good (100Y) prepaid commlinks have device ratings associated with them, or are they so throw-away that it's not worth mentioning?
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Its not stated there but what I think is that the 100 yen one is the meta link comlink also 100 yen and as proposed to me (and I like) the 20 yen one is also the metalink but you have to pay a 20 yen subscription each month. That is you buy it for 20 yen and after one month it stops working until you pay for another month at 20 yen or you can get the 100 yen version that's unlocked and works indefinately. The higher level comlinks don't come in a month paid subscription variants just fully unlocked.
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I treat them as Rating 0 commlinks. They can't broadcast SINs (which will be an issue in many neighborhoods) and they have neither a Firewall nor a Data Processing rating for the purposes of setting Limits, so you can't perform Matrix test with one--making a simple commcall isn't a Matrix test, but that's about all they do. I describe them as the equivalent of having a flip phone today; you can make and receive calls just like the other guy's phone, but his phone has a hundred extra options on top of that.
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Thanks for the replies, folks, that sounds like a fair way to treat them. Time to stock up on disposable 'links for a new campaign.
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A couple of metalinks/super cheap burner comms (from Run Faster), micro transceiver, survival bag/bug-out, survival knife, respirator (R6), gas mask (either in ballistics mask or helmet) with extra tank, trauma patches, med kit (higher rating the better), flashlight (all three), trodes or datajack (for DNI), extra cred sticks, back up weapons, extra clothes, and finally back up armor.
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A vehicle. Seriously - everyone should have their own reliable transport. Even if that's just a damn Dodge Papoose (or whatever the low-rent moped is called now), or perhaps a pair of bitchin' skates and a magnipoon (along with the relevant mad skills). Too many times I've seen the mage or the sammie come to the table for their first or second game sans transport.
Not that there's anything wrong with riding the bus; I once executed a first-meet hiring on a Seattle Metroplex bus, complete with harassing gangers - who, notably, got set up to take the fall in case things went south. Now, the character's regular transport, a Gaz-Willys Mastadon (a knockoff of the Ford-Canada Bison, aka the reliable heavy truck/SUV) was also set up as a drone, and instructed to follow the bus's route at roughly a block spacing - either for a post-meet pickup, or just in case things went south. The same character also once carried out a set of hirings on the train 'The City of New Orleans' during its southbound route from Chicago ... rather fun, all told. :)
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I'd love to come in an Ares Roadmaster sadly I can't afford that moped with my 6k starting money, at least not while affording everything else I want/need.
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A vehicle is a really want to have but as long as someone in the party has enough transport to handle the group it isn't a big deal. If your character concept ends up with resources E then buying a transport just isn't realistic.
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Still, it's always nice to have a GMC Bulldog on standby. Just in case.
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Resources E... Just when I needed another excuse to not go 5E.
Entertainment Systems Monocycle, one of my fav starter transports.
Here`s something I didnt see, or maybe glossed over, Nanofixx. For when you dont have time to go to the tailor or explain where the bullet holes/singed fabric came from.
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There is always the bicycles or skateboards out of Run Faster. Still not a car, but more stylish than that damn moped (Dodge Scoot is current version).
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In 4th I had a anti-tech Druid that used Levitate to get around but 4th edition levitate let you move what you are levitating at force x net hits meters per turn so you could move at a fairly good clip if you get enough hits. 8)
Unfortunately you move a lot slower in 5th edition.
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Make a custom version that uses the old movement rate at the cost of higher drain.
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Or use the old version of the spell, drain`s a real killer. The heat from being a flying a sorcerer in downtown anywhere alone is a pretty decent deterent to not rely on the ability.
Why not just pull a yu-yu hakisho and boost your cycling ability to let you go 60 on a bike... Up hill.
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A vehicle. Seriously - everyone should have their own reliable transport. Even if that's just a damn Dodge Papoose (or whatever the low-rent moped is called now), or perhaps a pair of bitchin' skates and a magnipoon (along with the relevant mad skills). Too many times I've seen the mage or the sammie come to the table for their first or second game sans transport.
^^ Agreed.
My current character has the Scoot, which is bad but an MA at Resources-E just isn't going to be able to afford much. I relied on real SIN for a while.
Our current group has 2 Scorpions, a Scoot, & a Scorpion/Growler IIRC so whenever someone has joined later the one thing I say is "Buy a bigger vehicle, so we can all ride together". So far all 3 Riggers have all been 1 shot guests, but the Mage that joined has a truck/Gopher so we can squeeze in a couple if needed..
A vehicle is a really want to have but as long as someone in the party has enough transport to handle the group it isn't a big deal. If your character concept ends up with resources E then buying a transport just isn't realistic.
Growler or Scoot are workable, provided you have Karma for Cash built in & don't mind going SIN-3.
Wageslaves can ride the bus, they are on a schedule. Hard on a runner to pull that off.
Interestingly, I think your Levitate idea would work in 5E when combined with Air Spirit w/ Movement ability.
By my rough math a Force-7 Spell & Force-6 Spirit would having you flying along at 30MPH. Not bad really.
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Characters fresh out of chargen aren't finished products. They should be functional characters, but that doesn't mean they're going to have every "must have" item on their shopping lists. If you go with Resources E, you're broke and in desperate need of some wheels (just like being 16 again). You get some odd jobs and save up for a car (again, just like being 16 again). It's important to have some sense as to how your character will progress once play starts and picking up those last few essentials can certainly be part of that.
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I'm sorry, but characters 'fresh out of chargen' are SUPPOSED to be essentially finished products. They are functional characters, and are meant to be ready to rock and roll with whatever they've got, where-ever they're hired to do it. Do they have everything on their shopping lists? No. Do they have the basics covered? Well, they'd better - the basics being 'transport, attack, defense, evasion, communication'. If you go with Resources E, yes, you're broke - but that does not mean you should fail at one of these things. You can get transportation, whether that's a crap vehicle or a pair of roller skates or (honestly) a monthly bus pass, though I sure don't recommend the latter for a shadowrunner. You can get 'crap everything' for 6,000 - a crappy gun, a used armored jacket, a shitty motorcycle, a prepaid commlink, and a level 1 Fake SIN. The last one is going to cost them the most.
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You can get 'crap everything' for 6,000 - a crappy gun, a used armored jacket, a shitty motorcycle, a prepaid commlink, and a level 1 Fake SIN. The last one is going to cost them the most.
Least expensive firearm: Streetline Special, 120¥
Least expensive ammo: Regular rounds, 2¥ per round
Least expensive armor: Armored Clothing, 450¥
Least expensive commlink: Meta Link, 100¥ (arguably, the burner link described in Run Faster is only 20¥ but we've no rules on how that actually works)
Least expensive vehicle: Dodge Scoot, 3000¥
Least expensive SIN: Rating 1, 2500¥
Least expensive lifestyle: Street, 0¥
Total cash needed: 6170¥ (6090¥ if using the burner link, and plus however many rounds you buy for your gun).
I don't know about y'all, but if I'm homeless I would seriously consider selling my moped if it meant a roof over my head and the occasional shower. I would put a low lifestyle (2000¥) FAR above transportation; we have actual, honest to god costs for public transportation. Is it an ideal situation for a runner? No. Is it better to have a semblance of cleanliness when you're looking for jobs instead of a scooter? In my opinion, yes.
TL;DR
Transportation is in my opinion a nice to have. The bus will do just fine until you can either a) arrange for team transportation, or b) buy your own wheels.
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Or you go used, but yes, that's what you're looking at.
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If I remember right the bicycle is ¥100 for the cheep one or around ¥20 for the skateboard. Again, not as good as actual vehicle but might look better than public transportation.
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Not sure about the worst of everything, this was my starting list.
Squatter Lifestyle $500
Ingram Smartgun w/ $800
Laser Sight $125
Spare Clip $5
Ammo-APDS *10 (10/10) $120
Ammo-Gel *10 (10/10) $25
Clothing x5 (4+Bag) $100
Armor Jacket $1,000
Meta Link + $100
Microtransceiver $100
Standard Cred Stick $5
Reagents *6 (6/6) $120
Messerschmidt-Kawasaki Chi $3,000
Biggest issue I had is no Fake SIN but I had the SINner Quality as a UCAS born citizen.
Is it a great list? No, but it got me through my first run.
Of course most archtypes should be able to turn some Karma for Cash & not have to start out at the bare bottom $6,000.
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Sorry, but IMO a fake SIN is much more important than a vehicle even (or especially) if you have the SINner quality.
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Can't say I disagree with you.
But given a Fake SIN-1 will get blown the first time you use it for anything more than bubblegum, I figured Transport is more useful in the short term & then picked up a much better Fake after a couple runs.
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Rating 1 will get you on public transport. No SIN and driving with get you in trouble fast. Better to buy a good SIN first save for the dirt bike (second cheepest ride, hell of a lot more useful than the moped) after a run or two.
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Rating 1 will get you on public transport. No SIN and driving with get you in trouble fast. Better to buy a good SIN first save for the dirt bike (second cheepest ride, hell of a lot more useful than the moped) after a run or two.
As I mentioned, I had a SIN, a real one. So driving wasn't an issue.
As for the Growler, stat wise, it barely qualifies as better than the Scoot on the streets. Moderately better off road of course.
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Every single cop in the city can tell who you are. How is that NOT an issue for a shadowrunner?
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It ain't illegal unless you get caught.
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A driving around with a legal SIN up for anything remotely related to the Run is suicide. While stat wise it may only be slightly better it doesn't have the connotation of "I am easy hit and I'm on this bad hoopty Scoot, YEAH!" Besides, dirtbikes can easily go places most other motorize vehicles can not. Side alleyways would be closer to off road than not. Don't think of dirtbikes of what they can do on actual roads as to how well they handle off of actual roads; again side alleys, tunnels, smuggler routs, etc. Otherwise save the 3k for either a back up SIN (which you will need), better/more gear, or to be saved for an actual vehicle with cargo space.
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Just because you possess a legal SIN doesn't mean you're automatically transmitting it all the time. Not having a Fake SIN means that when the secboys are doing a scan (most often in a restricted area) and they get a mis-match because you aren't broadcasting, yeah, they're going to jab you to broadcast or be gone. But c'mon - shadowrunners in the middle of an intrusion won't (okay, shouldn't) be broadcasting any SIN anyhow.
The problems with a legal SIN come with trackability. "Hm. You right next door to where the gun was bought at about the same time; you got a beer near where the gun was fired, killing the victim. That seems suspicious to me." The shadowrunner isn't going to keep his fake SIN broadcasting while on a run; he might not have it broadcasting during a meet. The smart one will have it broadcasting 'next door', or 'down the street' - 'getting a beer' at a local pub, for example. However, a Fake SIN means you can dump the thing, while a real SIN has data that's going to keep following you around.
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That's why you only broadcast the real sin when not on Run related business, let them track you. Ok sally sward wasn't in this part of town or even close to it however Charlie McGee was near the fire.
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Every single cop in the city can tell who you are. How is that NOT an issue for a shadowrunner?
1. Why are you transmitting ANY SIN at all when the police are after you?
2. Your not supposed to get caught.
3. If you do get caught your Fake SIN isn't likely to hold up when they start giving it more than a passing glance.
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A driving around with a legal SIN up for anything remotely related to the Run is suicide.
Did I say I was driving around displaying my legal SIN while outrunning a police car?
The Scooter gets you to meets. It gets you around town doing what you do the other 5 days a week when you are not "On a Run".
Heck, it can even get you to someplace close to a target & then walk in from there, `a la "Night on the Town" story.
Otherwise save the 3k for either a back up SIN (which you will need), better/more gear, or to be saved for an actual vehicle with cargo space.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of not having transportation & a SIN-1 wasn't going to get me anything on our first run.
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The problems with a legal SIN come with trackability. "Hm. You right next door to where the gun was bought at about the same time; you got a beer near where the gun was fired, killing the victim. That seems suspicious to me." The shadowrunner isn't going to keep his fake SIN broadcasting while on a run; he might not have it broadcasting during a meet. The smart one will have it broadcasting 'next door', or 'down the street' - 'getting a beer' at a local pub, for example. However, a Fake SIN means you can dump the thing, while a real SIN has data that's going to keep following you around.
Agreed. Which is why a Fake SIN-5 was my first big purchase.
Playing it safe w/ Law Enforcement for a couple runs. (Annoying)
Riding all over town "B**** seating it" on the back of a Harley, hugging a Troll, because you have no ride (HUMILIATING)
And that is why I choose to go w/o a Fake SIN.
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The Scooter gets you to meets. It gets you around town doing what you do the other 5 days a week when you are not "On a Run".
Heck, it can even get you to someplace close to a target & then walk in from there, `a la "Night on the Town" story.
In fairness, public transportation accomplishes the exact same thing, for 50 nuyen a month if you've got less than a low lifestyle, or for no extra charge if you've got a low lifestyle or higher. And If you're in a rush, there's always cabs, car services, and air taxies for emergencies.
And that's why I'd choose a fake SIN, even a rating 1 one, over a moped.
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The only problem with public transit is.... "the getaway"
I have yet to see a player try a "Hold on Mr. Lone Star, my bus will be here in 2 minutes. Then we can have a slow, high speed chase'"
:P (but it might be worth it...)
But then again, if you're stirring the pot, you probably should have a better exit plan then "the bus stop on Maple Ave and 3rd Street"
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Y'know, Run Faster has a section dedicated to just exactly this question.
Just sayin'. :D
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The only problem with public transit is.... "the getaway"
I have yet to see a player try a "Hold on Mr. Lone Star, my bus will be here in 2 minutes. Then we can have a slow, high speed chase'"
:P (but it might be worth it...)
But then again, if you're stirring the pot, you probably should have a better exit plan then "the bus stop on Maple Ave and 3rd Street"
If your exit strategy is " my moped parked two blocks away", I'd say you're just as screwed. One of the jobs on a team is quite literally "getaway driver". If no one on the team has a vehicle that can fit the team, maybe it's time to hire a rigger...
My point being, whether you use a moped or public transportation to get to the meeting is a characters choice. I don't personally think it's fair to say that every character needs a mode of transportation and then immediately disregard public transit when even the rulebooms mention that it a an option.
Given the choice between trying to run from the cops on a moped or the bus, I'd choose the bus. A decent con skill and even a low level fake SIN could be enough to get you to the bus, at which point you're just one of the masses.
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As mentioned Buses & Subways have issues with "scheduling" so there isn't always going to be one just waiting for you.
Good luck getting to a meet across town when your fixer only gives you an hour notice. Or moving any sort of "gear" around with you on the bus.
Not to mention the check in stations, security/police patrols, or crowds of people your trying to "blend" into that wonder why you are in Black/Camo fatigues are are trying really hard to hide your SMG & the Decker's Cyberdeck under your trenchcoat.
Not that the Scoot lets you hall around an Assault Cannon either, but at if I do have to have an oddly shaped bag over an M23 they don't get long to see it as I fly by compared to having someone across from you for a 30 minute drive.
As for the Dodge Scoot, we are hardly talking about a 1982 Moped here. I see "Scooters" these days on the freeway most mornings that are flying down it at 55-75 MPH.
The Dodge Scoot has the same speed as the Growler, Jackrabbit, Americar, Bulldog, & Roadmaster.
Is it going to fly down the freeway at 100+? No, but that is just asking for attention anyway.
I don't think every team HAS to have a Rigger. Though they are useful for sure.
As I've stated before. I think everyone has to have some form of vehicle. Even if it is the Scoot. And at least 1 team member needs a "Rigger-ish" type vehicle. Something to move as a group once you've met up. Doesn't matter who, though clearly the tech intensive classes can fit one in easier.
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A driving around with a legal SIN up for anything remotely related to the Run is suicide.
Did I say I was driving around displaying my legal SIN while outrunning a police car?
The Scooter gets you to meets. It gets you around town doing what you do the other 5 days a week when you are not "On a Run".
Heck, it can even get you to someplace close to a target & then walk in from there, `a la "Night on the Town" story.
Otherwise save the 3k for either a back up SIN (which you will need), better/more gear, or to be saved for an actual vehicle with cargo space.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of not having transportation & a SIN-1 wasn't going to get me anything on our first run.
I thought that driving around without broadcasting SIN (and, presumably, driving license) gets you pulled over. How do you stay incognito until it's time to take off the balaclava and reveal that pink mohawk?
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I thought that driving around without broadcasting SIN (and, presumably, driving license) gets you pulled over. How do you stay incognito until it's time to take off the balaclava and reveal that pink mohawk?
Depends on where your driving, not all neighborhoods require you to broadcast your SIN, the higher the class of neighborhood, the more likely this is the case. So if your Johnson is meeting you in a low class dive bar and is sending you into the Barrens for a job, you're probably good. But if he's meeting you at a high class restaurant and asking you to go to a triple A neighborhood... I wish you luck, without broadcasting a SIN, you may not even get to the meet without drawing the kind of attention that the Johnson doesn't want; the neighborhood part however...
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Ok, I will specify - how do you stay incognito in area with security similiar to a modern day city? Half-wild areas don't count.
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Ok, I will specify - how do you stay incognito in area with security similiar to a modern day city? Half-wild areas don't count.
Wow, that is a loaded question...
I'm sure that no matter how many ideas I come up with (Which in all honesty is not many), others will come up with more.
Personally I find that the best way to stay incognito, is to dress for the location and broadcast a fake SIN (If such is required). If you look like you belong then people ignore you more readily, if you broadcast your SIN (Where required) then a roving drone probably won't even look at you twice. Depending on what you're doing, incognito doesn't necessarily mean you want to leave no digital trace, sometimes that's what will get you caught.
Having several fake SIN's is beneficial too, just so you can have one or two without firearms licenses that might draw unwanted attention. It's also useful to have multiple SIN's so you can change them up as you travel, makes it a bear to track you digitally.
Improved invisibility spell if available combined with a good awareness of your environment can get you pretty far as well, just need to be sure to not wonder into an area with non-sight based sensors that might detect you anyways.
Drive a car with extraterritoriality rights, the cops typically don't want the backlash associated with stopping such a car without cause.
Efficient use of crowds, if in a densely packed crowd, sure the drone will know there are 20 people but only 19 SIN's, but it may not be able to tell who isn't broadcasting quickly enough. Get through the area before the cops gets boots on the ground to sort out the discrepancy and you're probably good.
Hopefully this gives you some good ideas to run with, I'm sure there will be more ideas to follow, just not from me as I really should be studying for a final right now.
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how do you stay incognito in area with security similiar to a modern day city?
Can you be a bit more specific?
I'll try to provide my thoughts on when what I did is or is not a problem as I saw it.
Times when you actually HAVE/NEED to be broadcasting a SIN, any SIN.
1. Driving in a Major Metro Area.
2. Foot Traffic that goes through some kind of checkpoint/station. (Bus Station, Police Checkpoint, Major Corp Building).
3. When asked to by someone of authority.
Outside of those situations your not displaying your SIN, just like I'm not flashing my Drivers License or Social Security Card everywhere I go like a name tag on my shirt.
Sure you'll need it for actual purchases or logging onto the Matrix but not walking down central avenue or at every doorway to every building.
(I'm not a fan of the idea that you need one for Potato Chips either, but w/e, that's how its written)
So when are those possibly a problem for Runners?
1. Well, obviously, the Get Away in down town Seattle is going to be an issue. Even recon around a high profile target might be tricky.
Neither of which is something that I would be doing much of. The group as a whole did have one get away but we were on foot for the first part of it & went through some big buildings coming out on the other side of them & then having Invis & Concealment cover to limit our exposure till we got to our bikes.
2. Infiltrating a large public event where your doing to do something illegal could be a problem. You can blend in public but if it requires being "legal" on the way in & then blowing that cover then clearly a Fake SIN would be needed for that situation. But its not the norm for most runs.
The only time I came close to this type of scenario was in Rally Cry where I walked right through a police blockade with my real SIN displayed. But I wasn't lugging a Rifle with me or in combat armor. When the Riot broke out, I invised & disappeared in the crowd of thousands.
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Outside of those situations your not displaying your SIN, just like I'm not flashing my Drivers License or Social Security Card everywhere I go like a name tag on my shirt.
Sure you'll need it for actual purchases or logging onto the Matrix but not walking down central avenue or at every doorway to every building.
(I'm not a fan of the idea that you need one for Potato Chips either, but w/e, that's how its written)
That might be your opinion, but that is not at all how the core book describes the pure invasive nature of Big Brother in the Shadowrun setting.
Modern society in 2075 produces a staggering amount of information every second of every day: where you are, what you buy, and what you do. With the system producing all of these pieces of information, there needs to be an easy way to store, track, and correlate it. All of that information needs to be associated with a person somehow. That’s where the SIN comes in. A SIN is issued to a person a birth, and stays with them (baring exceptional circumstances) for the rest of their life. A SIN identifies a person in the global information system and is attached to every piece of information associated with them in the Matrix. No aspect of modern or legal life can function without a SIN. Those who don’t have one can’t get a job, can’t buy food, can’t even walk down the street. To the system, these people don’t exist.
The question isn't so much "when do I need to broadcast a SIN" as it is "what is my GMs perception of the setting". Some might say that only in an A-rated neighborhood is broadcasting a SIN necessary, while others might require broadcasting a SIN near constantly or risk getting picked up by random patrols.
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Best way to think of it in my opinion is a world that's involved to have a much lower level concern about having one ubiquitous identifying ID. For example the local shopping mall has dozens of security cameras scattered about monitoring the area, the nearby video store has CCTV monitoring, the train station has security cameras, most stores have security cameras. In the shadowrun world those surveillance devices are also going to be checking your Sin. So you walk down the main street the camera on a nearby store is going to see you, check you for a Sin and then do one of two things.
1) Look up that SIN and send a little blast of targeted advertising "Mr McCormick last year you took a holiday to the Teial ski resort we are currently offering a special deal. . .. "
2) If it sees no SIN store your image and details as well as keep monitoring you while your closely because you have no SIN and thus are scum and potentially could be planning to graffiti the store.
Sure there are going to be areas with no or few cameras low rating zones, abandoned areas that have fallen into disrepair but any built up area is going to be scanning and checking sins 24/7 anywhere today you'd see a security camera it's checking for your details. As for potato chips the reason for that is credsticks while common aren't the preferred method of commerce in most areas. Think cash vs credit card. I can walk into a travel agents and slap down an envelope containing 10k to pay for a holiday because it costs less without various charges or i can walk in and swipe my credit card. The credit card is the Sin method of payment and just like today even snack vending machines are getting credit card slots so you can pay with them so too would you have the option to pay with a sin.
It's not so much required but it is the standard method to pay for most people.
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Outside of those situations your not displaying your SIN, just like I'm not flashing my Drivers License or Social Security Card everywhere I go like a name tag on my shirt.
Sure you'll need it for actual purchases or logging onto the Matrix but not walking down central avenue or at every doorway to every building.
(I'm not a fan of the idea that you need one for Potato Chips either, but w/e, that's how its written)
That might be your opinion, but that is not at all how the core book describes the pure invasive nature of Big Brother in the Shadowrun setting.
Modern society in 2075 produces a staggering amount of information every second of every day: where you are, what you buy, and what you do. With the system producing all of these pieces of information, there needs to be an easy way to store, track, and correlate it. All of that information needs to be associated with a person somehow. That’s where the SIN comes in. A SIN is issued to a person a birth, and stays with them (baring exceptional circumstances) for the rest of their life. A SIN identifies a person in the global information system and is attached to every piece of information associated with them in the Matrix. No aspect of modern or legal life can function without a SIN. Those who don’t have one can’t get a job, can’t buy food, can’t even walk down the street. To the system, these people don’t exist.
The question isn't so much "when do I need to broadcast a SIN" as it is "what is my GMs perception of the setting". Some might say that only in an A-rated neighborhood is broadcasting a SIN necessary, while others might require broadcasting a SIN near constantly or risk getting picked up by random patrols.
What he said.
As for a situation? While on the job in, say, Tacoma, Murphy's law kicks in, you need to bail. Cops give chase, but you manage to get away. Then they check the camera footage from the location of the botched run, they see how you arrive, do whatever and run like hell. Now, during the getaway, with authorities in hot pursuit, there's obviously no need to broadcast your SIN. But what about arrival? Driving without SIN in such area is like screaming "HEY, LOOK AT ME!" to the authorities, something that you really can't afford to do, at least at this stage. But the only SIN you have is your real one. You broadcast it, cameras will pick it up. Cue KE kicking down your door.
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I would typically say you'd get arrested in a neighborhood rated A or higher, get hassled in a B, get stopped in a C if you're looking suspicious, and have an eye kept on you in a D. Anything lower ... they don't care, I tend to feel. But that's just me.
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Ala Rambo. Ex war vet, decorated hero, hassled by the police and run out of their town for being a drifter while trying to do a favour for a dead friend.
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Best way to think of it in my opinion is a world that's involved to have a much lower level concern about having one ubiquitous identifying ID. For example the local shopping mall has dozens of security cameras scattered about monitoring the area, the nearby video store has CCTV monitoring, the train station has security cameras, most stores have security cameras. In the shadowrun world those surveillance devices are also going to be checking your Sin. So you walk down the main street the camera on a nearby store is going to see you, check you for a Sin and then do one of two things.
1) Look up that SIN and send a little blast of targeted advertising "Mr McCormick last year you took a holiday to the Teial ski resort we are currently offering a special deal. . .. "
2) If it sees no SIN store your image and details as well as keep monitoring you while your closely because you have no SIN and thus are scum and potentially could be planning to graffiti the store.
Sure there are going to be areas with no or few cameras low rating zones, abandoned areas that have fallen into disrepair but any built up area is going to be scanning and checking sins 24/7 anywhere today you'd see a security camera it's checking for your details. As for potato chips the reason for that is credsticks while common aren't the preferred method of commerce in most areas. Think cash vs credit card. I can walk into a travel agents and slap down an envelope containing 10k to pay for a holiday because it costs less without various charges or i can walk in and swipe my credit card. The credit card is the Sin method of payment and just like today even snack vending machines are getting credit card slots so you can pay with them so too would you have the option to pay with a sin.
It's not so much required but it is the standard method to pay for most people.
There is just a couple problems I see with this.
1. Last I checked SIN readers are a type of sensor & are NOT loaded into every CCTV camera known to man.
2. If every CCTV camera had the ability to run a SIN check on you then you would literally NEVER get away. And yet... they do.
3. Having enough people to monitor every person that walks down the street would require a MASSIVE sized police force. I live in a city of millions with a ratio of over 500 people to every police officer. How much larger a police force do you think is required to be able to actively monitor Citizen Joe every minute of his day to be able to track him down at a moments notice. At what point does the economy collapse from maintaining the kind of force needed to actively devote that many people.
4. I'm not really up on all the Decking stuff, but, what happens if a person leaves home w/o their commlink? Does that mean they are harassed all day by this massive police force just getting to & from work? When they shut off their phone to go into a movie theater & their PAN goes down are they suddenly stopped when they walk out of the theater?
5. There is even a published SR adventure called Rally Cry that I played in last year. One of the key things I remember about it is that KE when deployed to cover a pair of public rallies that could turn into a riot was broadcasting to all citizens to please actively display their SIN & any gun license. This would seem to imply that they are NOT actively broadcasting that message every other time & that deploying to cover a big public rally was an exception to the rule.
6. I'm not convinced that not walking around w/o a PAN turned on & broadcasting a SIN means you can't go 100 ft w/o being stopped by the police.
PS. There is still Cash in 2070, its just less common. I'd say Certified Credsticks are more like a Pre-Paid Visa Gift Card actually.
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I would typically say you'd get arrested in a neighborhood rated A or higher, get hassled in a B, get stopped in a C if you're looking suspicious, and have an eye kept on you in a D. Anything lower ... they don't care, I tend to feel. But that's just me.
Arrested? For not displaying a SIN? I have to disagree.
Questioned maybe. And in a B or Lower area I don't think you'd even get questioned.
Where does it say its a crime not to actively broadcast one? Have one to do a lot of stuff, sure, but I'm not seeing anything where the police stand around all day questioning every person that doesn't have a PAN/Persona/Icon displayed.
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I would typically say you'd get arrested in a neighborhood rated A or higher, get hassled in a B, get stopped in a C if you're looking suspicious, and have an eye kept on you in a D. Anything lower ... they don't care, I tend to feel. But that's just me.
Arrested? For not displaying a SIN? I have to disagree.
Questioned maybe. And in a B or Lower area I don't think you'd even get questioned.
Unless you're "walking while tusked" in a Lone Star contract zone, where higher ratings are not your friend. Admittedly, that's a separate offense, and there are "wrong neighborhoods" for any/every metatype.
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I would typically say you'd get arrested in a neighborhood rated A or higher, get hassled in a B, get stopped in a C if you're looking suspicious, and have an eye kept on you in a D. Anything lower ... they don't care, I tend to feel. But that's just me.
Arrested? For not displaying a SIN? I have to disagree.
Questioned maybe. And in a B or Lower area I don't think you'd even get questioned.
Where does it say its a crime not to actively broadcast one? Have one to do a lot of stuff, sure, but I'm not seeing anything where the police stand around all day questioning every person that doesn't have a PAN/Persona/Icon displayed.
Disagree all you want, but since 'not broadcasting a SIN' can lead to you getting shot - according to fluff, though I'll confess I don't remember which one it was right off the top of my head - I think 'getting arrested' would definitely be a lesser danger for most people. And in answer to your B, leaving without your commlink would be like leaving without your car-keys - and for a SINner, in most cases it's literally equivalent, because your car's recognition systems won't allow it to go anywhere without your commlink. Hell, your household system might remind you when you go into the foyer to head out that you don't have your commlink on you.
Also, understand that while the cop:potential perp (i.e. citizen) ratio likely remains the same in the Sixth World, automation is a lot heavier. Right now, they're looking at having cop cars' forward camera systems and the computers inside automatically scan ALL license plates and uploading that information to a national tracking database, so that they can sooner pinpoint stolen vehicles, Amber Alerts, and other similar things. Take that, and simply switch 'license plate' for 'SIN', and expand it from 'cop car' to 'traffic system'. Sure, you can get lost in a crowd, but if a camera is seeing 'moving body' but not seeing 'broadcast SIN', it sends an alert. Whether that alert gets acted upon is up to the GM out of game, and in-game it depends on the enforcement rating (AAA-Z), whether the cops are busy somewhere else, if the recognition program has picked up profiles of known weapons, etc. etc. In 'Rally Cry', KE specifically stated that for legal reasons, and so that their smartlinks could help them key in on who to shoot - not that you should take them saying so that the default is that people don't / shouldn't be broadcasting their SINs.
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Disagree all you want, but since 'not broadcasting a SIN' can lead to you getting shot
Whoa, that's kind of extreme. Are you sure that "not broadcasting SIN" was the poor slot's only offense? He wasn't waving a gun, tresspassing on corp property or anything like that?
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@Tarislar
I'm trying to avoid "arguing" as its been pointed out I have a habit to do that on the forums and I honestly don't know where the limits lie on that. However in this case I will address why I disagree with your points and you can respond or not to that.
1. Last I checked SIN readers are a type of sensor & are NOT loaded into every CCTV camera known to man.
I view this as a seperate thing. That is there are SIN readers and SIN scanners. A sin reader to me is something that reads your SIN and checks against a database for information on you while a SIN scanner actively looks for discrepancies. To illustrate the point Toy's R US has a SIN reader and Joe Jumbo Tusk (7 foot, troll, tattoos, cyberware etc etc the crowd parts around him) walks past and it reads his SIN (Tina Simulation 7 year old, human, female etc etc). It then does what its programmed too and sends a message from the corporation "Miss Simulation we have a new Lisa Lionheart dolly in tell your parents you want blah blah blah and here new blah blah blah". It couldn't care less about the discrepancies and unless there's a police alert out wont draw anyones attention to it. Its just there to read for SINS, check them against its databases (SIN details vs store products) and generate a bit of spam to attract a customer. A SIN scanner on the other hand is as you said not loaded into every CCTV because its actively checking a SIN for problems. This is when the table on 324 comes in and does various levels of checks on the SIN depending on its rating, the security of the zone and so on.
2. If every CCTV camera had the ability to run a SIN check on you then you would literally NEVER get away. And yet... they do.
As indicated in point 1 my understanding is that the ability to run a SIN check on you is something that requires specific programming but to read a SIN is ubiquioutous and everywhere. Every store is always looking out for potential customers its not looking out for potential fake SINS.
3. Having enough people to monitor every person that walks down the street would require a MASSIVE sized police force. I live in a city of millions with a ratio of over 500 people to every police officer. How much larger a police force do you think is required to be able to actively monitor Citizen Joe every minute of his day to be able to track him down at a moments notice. At what point does the economy collapse from maintaining the kind of force needed to actively devote that many people.
Never said they can track him down at a moments notice but the SIN is your ID, credit card, car keys etc etc. Remember in this world the SINLESS are barely a step above criminal in most peoples minds so a store security system would be monitoring all the people moving in and out today. In the sixth world the only difference is in C+ areas its also looking for SINS. As long as it finds them the checking is unlikely to go any deeper unless someone has a reason to do so. However we're not talking about determining your SIN is fake, we're determining your not broadcasting one. Think assasins creed and his eagle vision all those crowds just blend into one seemeless mass of white until you see the red enemy. Thats how I picture it all the crowds moving along the streets broadcasting SINS and no one's likely to notice your says your a 7 year old human girl when your really a 7 foot tall troll what they will notice is if your the only individual not broadcasting one at all and then they start looking into you.
4. I'm not really up on all the Decking stuff, but, what happens if a person leaves home w/o their commlink? Does that mean they are harassed all day by this massive police force just getting to & from work? When they shut off their phone to go into a movie theater & their PAN goes down are they suddenly stopped when they walk out of the theater?
Depending on the area yes. From page 363 "Those who don’t have one can’t get a job, can’t buy food, can’t even walk down the street. To the system, these people don’t exist.". You walk out the door without broadcasting a SIN and its unlikely police will promptly jump on you but your not going to be able to catch the train, ride a cab, buy lunch, enter any secure area (train stations, office buildings etc), stores will politely ask you to leave since you can't buy their products anyway from the SINNER negative quality on page 84 "A legal SIN is required for all legal
purchases". In other words every store has a way to read your SIN even if they can't check it for errors. If your in a AA or AAA area you could well be arrested since you can't prove who you are or that you have any right to be there. If you just forgot to turn it back on after being in a hospital/cinema or other location where you can't have it running you could apologize and do so but there'd be a decent chance in my opinion that then the police would scan it for discrepancies.
5. There is even a published SR adventure called Rally Cry that I played in last year. One of the key things I remember about it is that KE when deployed to cover a pair of public rallies that could turn into a riot was broadcasting to all citizens to please actively display their SIN & any gun license. This would seem to imply that they are NOT actively broadcasting that message every other time & that deploying to cover a big public rally was an exception to the rule.
Haven't played that so I can't really comment although I'd imagine that's just a precaution to ensure someone who had turned theirs off to watch a movie switch's it back on but like I said not played it.
6. I'm not convinced that not walking around w/o a PAN turned on & broadcasting a SIN means you can't go 100 ft w/o being stopped by the police.
Not saying you can't go anywhere without being immediately stopped (although again in a AAA area where security response occurs in minutes that could be the case) but you do need it to function in most civilized/built up areas. As quoted above a SIN is required for all legal purchases meals, bus fare, a new phone, grid subscription, video rental, clothing and all the other parts of day to day life. My average work day is get up, catch train to work, work, catch train home, eat dinner, bed (long travel times. In that day I'd need my SIN for the train trip back and forth as well as swiping into the offices. Walking around the city I pass numerous security cameras of various sorts all of which would probably note and flag a SINless person. Now the reaction to that would vary. Near where I live probably no response no crime, not worth bothering them. Near where I work (major city area) police would probably check it out if they were there but not bother travelling if they weren't on the other hand a SINLESS actually at where I work would bring the police down on them (governement office currently on high alert due to the threat of terrorism we've even gone from leaving the main doors unlocked during business hours to requiring you swipe in each time). Again it depends on the place as much as anything else but you are going to be checked on a pretty regular basis as per the books.
PS. There is still Cash in 2070, its just less common. I'd say Certified Credsticks are more like a Pre-Paid Visa Gift Card actually.
Maybe I only operate on credit cards or cash nothing in between but that's a person/place issue.
@psycho835
I recall what The Wyrm Orouboros is referring to as well its a mention of police shooting SINless if it'd be easier for them, I don't think they were shot for being SINless so much as shot because being SINless no one would care and it makes the officers job easier. Admitedly the difference it largely acccademic to the person shot but its the difference between being killed because your SINless and being killed because the officer doesn't want to deal with you.
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Look at it from the corporation/security service's position. If you're a good citizen, why shouldn't you be broadcasting your SIN? If you aren't broadcasting a SIN, you must be trying to hide something - or else you must not have one at all. Not broadcasting a SIN is, therefore, by its very nature a suspicious activity. "Show me your SIN, or receive hot lead" becomes a viable security statement.
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Every store would likely have a SIN reader up at the Register, where you have to pay for goods.
And what happens when its a 12 yo kid that doesn't own a Commlink yet & tries to buy a candy bar at Circle-K w/ Cash or CertCredstick
We are not talking about "Good Corp-SIN Drone" living at an Archology and never seeing the streets.
I'm talking about driving down a middle/low class suburban/urban street in the good ole USofA & walking into generic store.
I'm just not seeing how not actively having you Commlink or not broadcasting on the wireless that your there is a crime worthy of getting shot.
Not everyone is an office drone at Corp HQ.
People are still cashiers at Sears, McDonalds, Circle-K etc etc.
I've never heard of a SIN scanner v/s reader. There is nothing to support that in the rules that I've seen. There are levels of scanners that are easier to beat but even a Fake SIN-6 is going to fail to L1 scanners if its read every 100 feet all day long. And fail fast actually.
Having a SIN & not displaying it 24/7 is not the same thing as NOT having a SIN.
Otherwise there would never be the line in example in several SR books about a cop saying "What is your SIN citizen?" when they are questioning you.
But honestly this has gotten completely off topic and is going in circles. So I think this thread is done.