Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Neal Allen on <05-14-15/1857:40>
-
I've never understood why so many things were wireless. Like, it makes sense that in the average world one would interact with quite a few things via matrix, but there are very few things Shadowrunners would gain benefits from, from being wireless.
Armour? Off
Weapons? Off (smartlink on, obviously)
Vision and Audio Enhancements? On (not missing out on too much if off)
Vehicle? Off (unless running via ausoft)
Basically all cyberware? Off
Like, would spellcasters or adepts have a single wireless device (other then the commlink)?
-
I'm guessing you're talking about 5th ed specifically? If not, my mistake.
But basically it was their way of throwing hackers a bone. It doesn't make sense, and in 4th the only things that needed to be wireless to work were obvious things like Tactical Networks. Even then you could use alternate methods than wifi to broadcast this sensitive information. There doesn't appear to be any other reason than to make people more vulnerable to hackers, but since there are very few hackers in 5th ed it's kinda schizophrenic.
Back in 4th you could sorta kinda make yourself hacker proof in a myriad of ways, like having your encryption set to a long interval with an agent refreshing it at the end of the interval, or making sure all of your devices were touchlink enabled. On paper it looks pretty nasty, but in practice it ends up taking up allot of resources to manage that. Since everything you have is slaved to your PAN, and you can't communicate wirelessly with your link in autistic mode everything is still sorta vulnerable through your link anyway.
But yeah, just my two bits on the issue, it was just a huge gimp to everyone disguised as a bone for hackers.
-
Why not, wireless?
I vaguely mentioned chip tracking back during the food lesson. One thing: Almost all clothing is wire[less]. If you’re a cop, and you see a guy wearing exclusively untagged clothing, you know he’s up to no good. at’s like wearing a sign that says, “Please, officer, don’t follow me.” Yes, cops are lazy. But also, they have to occasionally arrest someone.
You don’t want to involuntarily promote the quality of any underwear or any other products you might own. RFIDs give your location away, they give data about your purchases away, and they give away data about the state of objects you own. Kill every RFID chip you can find. Buy yourself an eraser and wipe the little buggers off all your gear.
They're both right, and they're both wrong. Up to you to know when which is which.
-
Here' a fun trick - remove the tags from all your items, label them (so you know which is which) and carry them in a plastic bag in your pocket. Don't know if your GM will allow it, but you can give it a shot.
As for the security - THIS is why I think that Manhunter is better than Predator.
*WARNING!!! ANGRY RANT INCOMING!*
Well, that and the fact that if you attach a suppressor (ok, silencer) you couldn't realistically conceal Predator without anything less than a coat, whereas Manhunter's shorter barrel makes it feasible. Yeah, I know that game mechanics don't care about that but this is important, damnit!
-
Like, would spellcasters or adepts have a single wireless device (other then the commlink)?
Throwing Knives and Shuriken (especially for a Missile Master Adept ) ;)
with a Wireless Dance
Medicineman
-
There are a few different ways of approaching this. From a fluffy, macro view, the societal expectation is that you and your stuff is wirelessly enabled. This makes any number of things easier, or at least easier to commodify. Turning your wireless off as a general practice is weird in the same way that people who live off the grid today are considered weird.
Obviously, when you're in the middle of a run, operational security probably takes precedent. On the micro, crunchier side of things, you have to make some choices. Do you want those 3 extra dice to Perception Tests or 2 extra dice to Pistols? How exactly are you going to share your video feed to a teammate's datajack DNI? The developers wanted the Matrix in 5e to allow for better integration of deckers and chose the carrot as opposed to the stick as a means of doing it.
-
I ask myself "what idiot decided to make this wireless" all the time, right now in 2015. I can only expect it will get worse in the future. Cars, pacemakers, and an increasing number of home appliances are all vulnerable to hacking, not to mention a surprising amount of infrastructure. Maybe in 2075, it has something to do with DRM. You have to leave your underwear online so they know you aren't running non-proprietary software on it.
-
I really dislike the DRM theory. It leads to people thinking they should (or complaining they can't) just jailbreak all their stuff, or oddball theorising along the lines of "You have to leave your underwear online so they know you aren't running non-proprietary software on it."
http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.php?comic=111510
MGS this isn't.
-
About a decade ago I had a conversation with a Comp Sci Professor about this, but in the other direction.
There is basicly nothing you can come up with that can't be improved by slapping a computer and wireless capablity on. From chopstics to mega stadiums, putting a computer on something can ether improve it's function, or give perpheral advantage. That advantage maybe as simple as not letting it get lost, or just adding a "cool" appearence, but it is in engeneering terms a measurable, traceable advantage. With our ability to print transistors only a couple molicules wide what can't we add a computer too?
Armor? Biomonitor built into using a distributed micro sensor net; a great idea. Built in drug dispencer, big improvement. Don't forget a panic switch to doc wagon. Helmets? so much stuff you can do there, communications, sensors suits, entertainment, direction finding, not even starting on skill decks or anything along those lines.
Weapons! Of course your gonna have them active, why? For the wireless bonus of course. Symbolizing the millions of things you can do to improve accuracy with better tech. Smartlink- a range finder, combined with a gun cam, a HUD, and some decent software to put it all together. Puts a target radical where ever your pointing your weapon, and tells you how to adjust for bullet drop, drift and silmiar issues. You know the pentagon has smartbullets already? Bullets that literally change diretion to hit their target, just imagen how much that tech has improved by 2070. Even melee weapons be improved, Mono-whips? Auto-retract on a miss instead of taking of a limb? Amazing! They never found a good wireless bonus to put on a sword, but there are other games that have done so. Core Command which is a great scifi game, had a sword that rebuilt it's blade every time you swung, adding properties to the weapon each time you hit the opponent. Admittedly that tech is to far out there for SR. But having your sword make lightsaber noises and glow could be a "Cool" feature many folks would eat up. Or competition fencing using sensors to determin who actually hit first, or golf clubs that tell you what was wrong with your stroke etc, etc.
Vehicals- You know cars really drive themselves at this point in SR? Not having your car connect to the grid is in many cities can be cause to get you pulled over. Sure this dosen't hold true in the really, really bad parts of town, but never fear the cities grid will advice you strongly not to go there.
Cyberware- Over the last decade we have made huge leaps forward in prosthetics tech, but we are just beginning to reach the cave painting stage compared to SR cyberlimb capablity, not only does SR cyberware restore full capacity, it improves it. That is to say the new limb offers better dexterity, greater strength, greater endurance (Including super human levels of all three of these), but it also includes a high level virtual feedback, without that sensory feedback it couldn't do what is dicussed. Adding many other capabilities to cyberware simply means even greater improved capacity, Guns, Blades, Commlinks, smuggling compartments, all things it's easy to understand adding to such tech marvels.
Finally mages and adepts are still people, meaning that they would enjoy using all the modern convences of the time. Being a mage or an adept doesn't mean your anymore likely to declare yourself a hermit and try and live alone in the hills. Modern tech is wirelessly connective for all the reasons discussed above, and it works better for it. Sure there's the SR equivalent of Jack Reacher out there somewhere, but he is the exception that proves the rule.
-
You have to leave your underwear online so they know you aren't running non-proprietary software on it.
No, your underwear is online so that everyone in your MyBook group gets an update on its status when the toxic earth spirit materializes and you crap your drawers...
-
And as for chopsticks/forks/knives/spoons? Who wouldn't want to know the quality of their soy? Whether or not the real shrimp they're eating is on the fringe for mercury, and/or uploading the trace bad stuff information to your household computer / smartphone, which you have keeping track of such things??
-
And don't forget that wifi is used for power transmission as well. While devices will still carry batteries in 2075 they will be usually charged wireless. So switching your wifi off will consume the battery and offer less features, making a throw-back device a really useless item pretty fast, since large batteries might not be in use for most micro-sized devices like comlinks, drones, RFIDs or weapon-addons.
-
Funny, the always worked a significant period of time previously, so much so as to be 'don't worry about it'.
-
What, your extendable batons and undermount bipods DON'T deploy faster when connected to the internet?
;D
-k
-
That reminds me. I'm not expecting it, (just like I'm not expecting Noise to be differentiated between Static & Spam) but having PAN bonuses and actual wireless bonuses would be noice.
-
Yeah, forgot to mention. I play 5e so often I tend to forget about the other editions.
All of what everyone's saying makes sense and I agree with it.
But the situation I'm proposing is not that of one walking down the street.
I'm talking about runners.
Like, professional runners.
Not those bumbling "Teammates? What are those? I'm gonna shot everyone I see with my big gun."
I'm talking everyone putting on their armoured business suits to go talk to the Johnson. Messaging the face with disagreements instead of interruption your fixer. Actual planning.
These are the kinda guys that couldn't give a frag less if their underwear produced tweets.
Their lives are on the line from the second they enter the shadows. Of course one of the first things on their minds is gonna be the wireless everything that projects their location to anybody and their grandma.
@Marcus:
Yes, I understand there's a great many fluff and stat advantages and benefits to shoving a minicomputer into your sword, but very few are actually listed in the game and if I wanted (as a gm) a google benefits, I'd write a book. But for now, I'm going off what's written in the core rulebook. Somewhat because it's enough to have the benefits of calculating wind, rain, fog, earth rotation, current magazine capacity, heat buildup, guncam, silencer, trigger memory, and general gun strength. And somewhat because I'm probably slightly less than the average GM and I'm struggling to keep up with my players. To them it feels like the world is vast and complex while to me it all looks like old west building facades.
-
And as the GM, that's how it's supposed to be - you, scrambling to keep up with the world and present to your players a reasonable facsimile of a vast and complex world, them seeing that vast and complex world and being willing to accept that though they may be Wild West facades, you're trying, so they're going to accept them at face value.
In regards to your (apparent) uncertainties, here's the thing - a 'professional', by which I'm assuming we mean a reasonably black-trenchcoat kind of guy, is going to do his best to appear as normal as metahumanly possible right up until the moment where he pulls the rug out from under you - and maybe not even then, if he can get away with stealing the rug without you realizing it. If everyone's underwear is tweeting about how happy their testicles are, then the pro's underwear is going to be in underwear chat rooms, talking with other pairs of men's underwear about his gonads. If everyone's shoes are saying 'Look at me, I'm a pair of Ked's SmashBros Superplex Court Dominators', the pro's shoes are going to be coughing and saying in a high-class British accent, "You do not deserve to look at me, for I am a pair of London Fog Executive Boardroom Elites." The pro is going to do his level best to make his gear mirror what everyone else's stuff is doing. He may fake certain things - burn out that ArmorTux tag and replace it with FashionElite's Snobbish Vest (which is unarmored) - but he's still going to make it appear that he's just an ordinary joe, even if he's an executive.
When he has to 'vanish', then he's got a couple of choices. He can click 'off' on all his tags simultaneously, or he can flip them to another setting (and thus do the electronic version of a quick-change). Either way, depending on how closely the observers are paying attention, he has a good chance of getting away with it ... or a good chance of getting zeroed in on. Either way, though, a pro is not going to walk around with the electronic version of 'nothing on', because nothing draws attention faster than a (figuratively) naked person.
-
I agree with the Wyrm, when in Rome, do as the Romans do has worked for millennia.
-
@op
Why turn smartlink wireless on if you are not connecting it to a wireless enabled smartgun...?
Either you connect them wireless (both wireless on) while working in concert with DNI (and get all bonuses listed at various places around the book) or you connect them with a wire (both wireless off, this only enable you to some bonuses).
Why not have your vehicle wireless on? Without it you can't instruct it's on board pilot program to pick you up or to provide suppressive fire. You can't even unlock the car remotely as you approach it and have to physically interact with its lock mechanism. You have to drive stick and can't drive it with AR (with all the benefits that comes with that).
As long as you spend one complex action each combat turn remote controlling the vehicle (which you should do anyway unless you let the vehicles pilot program and gridsoft drive for you) you are effectively blocking any hacking attempts at remote controlling your vehicle (unless maybe if you installed a rigger interface and the hacker also have a control rig augmentation or is using a living persona with a mind over machine echo).
-
Why turn smartlink wireless on if you are not connecting it to a wireless enabled smartgun...?
Why use a smartlink & Gun at all ?
it has become so crappy in 5th ed.
If you haven't cybereyes it gives just one single additional Dice (just like a Laserpointer ) is much more expensive than a Laserpointer and raises a Limit by two instead of one from a Laserpointer
otoh if you keep your Smartgun WiFi open its bound to be Bricked by a Decker sooner or later
If a Decker bricks the Laserpointer you can still use your Gun without it
With a WiFi closed Dance
Medicineman
-
Why turn smartlink wireless on if you are not connecting it to a wireless enabled smartgun...?
Why use a smartlink & Gun at all ?
it has become so crappy in 5th ed.
If you haven't cybereyes it gives just one single additional Dice (just like a Laserpointer ) is much more expensive than a Laserpointer and raises a Limit by two instead of one from a Laserpointer
otoh if you keep your Smartgun WiFi open its bound to be Bricked by a Decker sooner or later
If a Decker bricks the Laserpointer you can still use your Gun without it
With a WiFi closed Dance
Medicineman
If bricking a smartgun makes you unable to shoot, so should bricking a laserpointered smartgun. They're both weapon accesories, the same rules should apply. (Of course, hacking a smartgun does have other options, like ejecting clips).
Also, laserpointers are visible. Not very visible, perhaps, and maybe not even visible to regular sight, but visible nonetheless. Not important in a straight up firefight perhaps, but when stealthing or sniping it is.
-
If bricking a smartgun makes you unable to shoot, so should bricking a laserpointered smartgun
Not if the Laserpointer is just an Add-on
A bricked Smartgun is rendered useles. a bricked Laserpointer is just that, but that doesn't matter to the Gun itself !
(Should I add (as a snarky remark) smarted throwing Knifes.... ? Naaaah, not this time, maybe next time ;) )
Also, laserpointers are visible.
Which is a tool for Intimidation ( See Expendables # 1 ;) )
And you should be able to change the frequency of the Laserpointer to the lower Infrared spektrum so it can be seen only by Infrared 'ware or metas
Yes, this is not (yet) touched by RAW, but it is something that should be possible ( There was Cyberware like an Eye light emitter in SR4A which used the same )
with an expendable Dance
Medicineman
-
If I was a decker and I hacked their smartgun first thing Id do is eject clip
-
See ;D
...oO( I wonder if I should tape the Clips of my Smartgun to the Grip....?)
with a taped Dance
Medicineman
-
Accessories share a Matrix icon with the device (this will be made clear shortly), so a decker can't selectively target one and not the other. Although I'm not really sure why, given the ability to do so, the decker would go for the laser sight and not the gun itself in the first place.
-
wait a Second !! ( :) )
I have a mechanical Revolver (Ruger Super Warhawk f.E.) and a WiFi open Laserpointer on top
A Spoilsportdecker can Hack/brick ONLY the Laserpointer. so my char simply switches him Off (or just the WiFi connection) and the gun still works (and I still wonder why a Laserpointer thats connected to the Matrix works better than one without, but thats a different discussion which has been chewed oh so often ;) )
But If my Char uses an Ares Predator V he can can render the whole Gun useless
That's all Im saying/writing
HokaHey
Medicineman
-
Well
Also, laserpointers are visible.
Which is a tool for Intimidation ( See Expendables # 1 ;) )
And you should be able to change the frequency of the Laserpointer to the lower Infrared spektrum so it can be seen only by Infrared 'ware or metas
I agree it should be possible, but everyone and their mom has thermographic vision these days, so that won't help as much as you think (okay, it'll still help).
And yeah, like Kincaid said. Laserpointer and Smartgun are the same in that regard.
Laserpointers are better when wireless because then it can compensate for wind drift and such, making you more likely to hit. Doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
-
Laserpointers are better when wireless because then it can compensate for wind drift and such, making you more likely to hit. Doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
a Laser.... ?
Windthrift ...?
at 5 meters ...?
in a Building....?
No,No,No, I am not going to start such a discussion again even if
. Doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
is a blatant challenge to (my) Common sense :)
with a friendly Dance
Medicineman
-
Laserpointers are better when wireless because then it can compensate for wind drift and such, making you more likely to hit. Doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
a Laser.... ?
Wind [d]rift ...?
at 5 meters ...?
in a Building....?
Accounting for wind drift has a particular penalty reduction with smartgun systems. I think people forget that.
What they both do is improve your aim before you start Taking Aim.
-
Don't look at me, i own 2 laser sights. One internal and one projected....
I have no idea how wireless on/off would make any difference for 95% of the time that you would use a laser sight.
-
Wait, don't all smartguns have a smartlink? Why on earth would a gun with laser sight even HAVE wireless capability? Unless of course you slapped laser sight on a smartgun, for some unfathomable reason...
Also, smartguns are, what? Small computer with wireless capability, that downloads data on weather, recognizes ammo types and crunches the numbers for you, numbers given to it by camera, laser rangefinder, possibly an altimeter. And some wireless controls, but that's beside the point. See, the way I see it, that rangefinder is critical for the targeting aid to work, and while it may be out of the visible spectrum, these days everyone and their mother has the capabilities to see it. So a sneak attack in a well-lit area, when targets have no reason to suspect anything would give you the upper hand, that advantage goes out the window as soon as they switch to infrared (whether thermo or low-light). And now that my rant is over, could anyone with actual technological know-how tell me whether or not I'm wrong?
-
Both?
Depends on the sensor and how and what it is measuring and how.
Most tech sensors nowadays are solid state devices hooked up to generic PLCs. As a result, they are fairly small, yet still sizeable, given their generic adaptability, hookups, and powering.
however, specialized self contained sensors for use in extreme environments, are actually very, very small (8 to 12 inches total length) and extremely accurate. (I've seen sensors that can detect micro particles, or the change of a billionth of an atmosphere.)
How they do this is dependant on the sensor and just what it is sensing. The 3 most common for range are:
Sonic
Light
triangulation (a combination sensor)
Sonic sensors work by bouncing a sound wave off objects and waiting for the bounce back. Not very good in open spaces, but works well inside. No, you can't hear it. No, a dog can't either. The frequency used is either well bellow or above heard frequencies for all animals.
Light sensors come in 2 types, wide and narrow. And then in both an active and a passive.
Wide or narrow is the angle of recieption of light, and active or passive describes its light generation.
The more narrow the reception, the more accurate the sensor.
Active light means it emits a light source, be it in candle power (like an LED) or in rads (as in infra red radiation)
Passive sensors either use amibiant, availabile light, or thermal radiation detection.
-
Reason to connect your smartlink and smartgun wireless while working in concert with your DNI is because now the system get to actively help you aim. It is no longer Jay passively giving you extra information. It is actually ordering your brain to move your arm to compensate for wind shifts. You get both accuracy limit increase as well as a dice pool increase at the same time when you use take aim (normally you only get one benefit). You get a dice pool modifier to all your attacks with the weapon (the system now actively help you to aim). You can now mentally eject the clip or change fire mode as a free action rather than using a manual simple action (this one is actually a wireless bonus that all firearms have, not just smartguns). The on board camera let you fire around corners without exposing yourself and without having to take a -6 environmental modifier (you get this bonus if you connect the system with a wire as well) and it will display an assortment of passive information that might help an expert shooter to land extremely accurate shots; this include information about material stress, ammo type and count, exact range to the target etc -which game mechanicwise increase the accuracy of your firearm (you also get fed this passive information and you also get this particular bonus even if you connect the system with a wire).
-
If bricking a smartgun makes you unable to shoot, so should bricking a laserpointered smartgun.
[/quote]
Well, not necessarily. The laser sight could be completely separate of a gun as all it does is project a dot. This bonus is equal to +1 accuracy and +1 DP (if wireless).
None of that requires connection to the gun.
But a Smartgun System allows you to
1. switch gun modes mentally
2. eject a clip
3. fire the gun without pulling the trigger
4. calculate trajectories and high precision over any distance
And many other things that actually require it to go wireless with the gun itself.
Laser sight *just* projects a dot.
-
Why are people's Smartgun getting Bricked??? Even before Data Trails that is fairly easy to protect against... now??? You gotta be kidding me... for less than 10k you can have a DR 7 DP 3 FW 11 Commlink!!! So 17 dice throwing against the hackers Sleaze/Attack with a constant Diagnostic Program running. Your Primary weapon should have a Weapon Commlink slaved to your PAN... so not only do they have to roll against your primary Commlink but they should have to get through a ridiculously high Firewalled one in your gun as well!!! If the enemy decker can waste time on doing that, your decker is either busy doing important things and not being bothered while he does them or he just sucks. Hopefully it's the former & yelling at the player to do his job should take care of the later.
-
Sorry how are you getting 11 firewall?
-
Yes, wondering that as well...
You can only switch a point around once. Or, you know, just build in the Firewall +1 program and get 8 Firewall that way - but that also takes up your one modification slot. 8 Firewall still gives you a decent defend pool though, but it's not unassailable. Diagnostics is neat, but (without any decent description of what it actually does) I doubt it actually warns you of an attack in progress until there's actual damage done - at which point it's likely too late. (Or a Sleaze roll is failed, or attack roll is made, but then you'd know anyway).
By the way, now that I'm looking at it...
The game says that Matrix Defense uses the owner's mental stat (Int or Wil, depending on the action), unless it's unattended, in which case you use Device Rating (of the device in question, so 3 for most, up to 7 for a commlink). That would mean that, if my Commlink is attacked, it'd never use the Device Rating (my commlink doesn't count as unattended per the description - even if you're not actively using it, it still depends on how you used it earlier, so uses your own stats). But slaved devices explicitly mention under PAN that you use the highest of your mental stat and the Device Rating. That wouldn't apply to commlinks, though, since they're (usually) not slaved - they're the masters. Am I missing a separate rule somewhere that states you can substitute your Device Rating, even for non-slaved devices?
Anyway, regardless of the above, your Smartgun's defense pool will be around 11-13 (with Firewall 8 on your commlink), since Intuition and Willpower rarely go over 5, and the device rating of the smartgun is 3.
-
Not to mention that deckers don't need to hack multiple firewalls to brick a slaved device, Zhoul, unless you're talking about SR4.
-
Sorry how are you getting 11 firewall?
The best way to get Broken things..... by selective reading of the rules. I mean who really needs to read the last sentence of a paragraph anyways... never any pertinent information there!!!! :o
-
Sorry how are you getting 11 firewall?
The best way to get Broken things..... by selective reading of the rules. I mean who really needs to read the last sentence of a paragraph anyways... never any pertinent information there!!!! :o
you mean increase matrix attribute x 4-5? should I guess you could take a transys up the fire wall five time and have one box of matrix condition
-
Sorry how are you getting 11 firewall?
The best way to get Broken things..... by selective reading of the rules. I mean who really needs to read the last sentence of a paragraph anyways... never any pertinent information there!!!! :o
you mean increase matrix attribute x 4-5? should I guess you could take a transys up the fire wall five time and have one box of matrix condition
Only 1 Mod per device... that's why I said it was from not reading the rules. It's the last sentence of the paragraph & who ever needs to read that????
-
If I was a decker and I hacked their smartgun first thing Id do is eject clip
Yet another reason I swear by external smartgun systems. If it gets bricked, you ignore the chunk of dead weight hanging off of your weapon and keep firing. It's not in the internals of the weapon, so it shouldn't have any bearing on firing the weapon.
-
DWC
Wow. If anyone tried that kind of logic at my table, I'd be forced to reach for the rulebook... That's beyond powergamey, in my opinion.
Just because the modification is external to the weapon does not mean the system is not inherently linked to the weapon in any way, shape, or form differently from an internal system.
If you have any sort of reason to believe there is a difference in how an external system varies from an internal system that is actually based on actual game mechanics besides cost and availability, I'd love to hear them. If that's your opinion you are more than welcome to it, but I for one couldn't disagree more with you on this.
-
Well, if he uses the smartgun system like that, you simply disallow a whole bunch of stuff that you'd normally get - like ejecting the clip via smartlink with a free action as compared to a simple action, checking how much ammo is in them, etc. Smartguns are useful for more than just targeting; they always have been.
-
Wireless: The weapon displays an ARO that tells you ammo levels and ammo type loaded. If you have a DNI, you get two additional benefits. First, ejecting a clip (for weapons that have them) is a Free Action rather than a Simple Action. Second, changing fire modes (on models that have more than one) is a Free Action rather than a Simple Action.
It's not that hard to do those things without a smartlink & smartgun system. You just need DNI.
-
Here is my take on the issue. Wireless is great and has many benefits. However, the only people who benefit from being primary wireless are deckers, riggers and anyone running reaction enhancers with Wired Reflexes. If you are running a Smartgun and implanted smartlink and your dice pool is less than 8 dice, you pretty much need that bonus to defend yourself.
Primary shooters like Street Sams and Gunslingers with minimum dice pools of 14 without wireless smartlink can afford to turn off wireless once in a while and go wired. You don't need wireless to get the +2 accuracy, only the +2 DP.
It's all a matter of character design and just options for people to work with. For example, I have a character who has wireless reaction enhancers and wired reflexes, but doesn't use any other wireless in the rest of his gear. Neither his weapons or his vehicles. Everything (except comms and cyber) are all wired or throwback. Its a character choice based on ____ reason and not really something that is a staple of the 6th world. It's not really metagaming, either, because that is his entire design and character flaw. Sure, he is missing out on something, but that is what makes him unique among modern runners.
So, running wired or wireless is a choice. If you want to break it down to game mechanics, running wired only will only hinder you if your relevant skills are not up to par - but you would be immune to all but direct attacks on your commlink, unless you turn it off. Running wireless is greatly beneficial and will enhance already great skills and give bonuses that would cover weaker skill focuses (like perception related and social tests). However, running wireless opens you up to the matrix and the possibility of being hacked and traced.
-
Which is why my characters wear jammers drek you hackers and riggers cant brick or run a drone with anything if you dont have a signal to it can you? all for the low low price of 1200 NY
-
Wireless: The weapon displays an ARO that tells you ammo levels and ammo type loaded. If you have a DNI, you get two additional benefits. First, ejecting a clip (for weapons that have them) is a Free Action rather than a Simple Action. Second, changing fire modes (on models that have more than one) is a Free Action rather than a Simple Action.
It's not that hard to do those things without a smartlink & smartgun system. You just need DNI.
And a wireless firearm ;)
When you turn your gun wireless on you turn all the gun wireless on. Does not matter if the smartgun is external or not. Or if you have a laser sight or not. Or a range finder. Or an air busy link. You don't "just" turn on wireless on your laser sight or "just" your external smartgun. You turn on wireless on your "firearm" and with it "all" the accessories attached to it.
It all end up in the same firearm icon. And if the icon is bricked then you cannot fire your firearm. If a hacker get marks on it then he can eject your clip or snoop the on board camera.
...hackers and riggers cant brick or run a drone with anything if you dont have a signal to it can you?
A hacker would get a negative dice pool modifier of 6 dice (minus noise compensation such as signal scrub and wireless data jack) when trying to hack devices within 5 meters of your rating 6 jammer.
-
or within 20 meters of you -1 effectiveness of a noise jammer each 20 meters but icons are visable within 100 meters unless they running silent and if you dont have a sleaze attribute it seems only a matter of time but I was reading page 178 of BBB/core and bit about smartgun while wireless
When aiming (using the Take Aim
action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses
with each action of aiming.
so +1 for take aim and +2 smart gun for each turn you aim
edit: nevermind
The maximum bonus a character may gain from sequential
Take Aim actions, either to her limit or her dice pool, is
equal to one-half the character’s Willpower, rounded up
so many rules
-
And a wireless firearm ;)
Yes, the full details being covered in the text I quoted. ;)
Unless you would also like an exhaustive list that starts here (http://healthfavo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/hand-anatomy-on-healthfavo.jpg) and continues in equal amounts of detail ...
In any case, while I like the ruling you would put forward and use it, I don't agree that the core rules support it.
-
When asked about wireless, Aaron once stated that anything that modifies another item becomes part of it for the purposes of things like slaving. So, if you've slaved your weapon to your commlink, you don't also need to slave your airburst link, bipod, imaging scope, and smartgun system (regardless of slot it takes up); instead, as Xenon suggests, your firearm would be one icon and every piece of tech on it would be slaved as well.
In other words, Aaron thinks the core rules support modifications effectively becoming part of the host device for the purposes of wireless access.
-
When asked about wireless, Aaron once stated that anything that modifies another item becomes part of it for the purposes of things like slaving. So, if you've slaved your weapon to your commlink, you don't also need to slave your airburst link, bipod, imaging scope, and smartgun system (regardless of slot it takes up); instead, as Xenon suggests, your firearm would be one icon and every piece of tech on it would be slaved as well.
In other words, Aaron thinks the core rules support modifications effectively becoming part of the host device for the purposes of wireless access.
Correct---accessories, be they internal, integral, side mounted, or whatever other somewhat-confusing slot it's occupying, merge their Matrix icon with that of the main device. Spatial relationships that exist in the meat world do not always have exact corollaries in the Matrix.
-
And there you have it folks. Thanks Kincaid.
-
As for a bricked smartgun being useless.. that just removes the ability to fire by mental command, pulling the trigger still works fine (unless you've been hit by GI/GO.
By the way, what is the recovery from GI/GO, from its wording it seems like an on-going effect until it's fixed, but no data on how to fix it.
-
My guess; reboot would resolve Garbage In/Garbage Out.
And I think you missed the point Kincaid just confirmed; a hacker wouldn't attack your smartgun system, because it has become part of your gun icon. The opponent would instead go after your gun if you decided to leave your its wireless capability enabled.
-
Last sentence of GI/GO, "Rebooting the device restores the code to its proper state."
-
As for a bricked smartgun being useless.. that just removes the ability to fire by mental command, pulling the trigger still works fine...
If a hacker fully brick your firearm icon (which include -but is not limited to- your external smartgun, periscope, your air burst link etc) then you can no longer fire it. You can use it as an improvised weapon (pistol whip or rifle butt) and you can still use a bayonet attached to your firearm if you have one.
SR5 p. 238 Bricking
The firing pin on an assault rifle might not work, but its bayonet works just fine for stabbing smug hackers
-
ScytheKnight, understand that in order to execute such firing mechanisms, a smartlink needs to have a method in place to move the object - pull the trigger, eject the clip, whatever. (Electric firing is a completely[] different thing, and AFAIK doesn't exist as an actual option in SR4 or SR5, though it might have in SR3.) Bricking the smartlink seizes those methods-of-manipulation up, and until they're unseized (i.e. the smartlink is rebooted) they prevent the ordinary working of the weapon. So you can't just pull the trigger on the gun, because the mechanical parts of the screwed-up smartlink are physically preventing that from happening.
-
(Electric firing is a completely[] different thing, and AFAIK doesn't exist as an actual option in SR4 or SR5, though it might have in SR3.)
Thats not quite right :)
Electronical Firing does exist in SR4A (even as a mod) it also exists in SR5 but the Crunch is lacking (meaning some Guns have Electronical Firing, but there is no way to modify a Gun for that)
with an electrical Dance
Medicineman
-
Wyrm's right - slapping an external smartlink on a gun that wasn't "smart" in the first won't agically give the gun the hardware it would need to be hacking-vulnerable.
-
... slapping, no. But adding an external smartlink usually involves a bit more than sticking it on top and away you go. It takes a bit of time to hook up connectors, put in place the fibroids to be able to automatically ratchet the slide, etc. Because even if it's external, you still can do all that sort of thing (drop the clip, put the safety on/off, chamber/eject a round, etc.), which means all those parts have to be in place. Don't take my description to be license for you to say 'oh, I have an external smartlink, mine can't be bricked' without your external smartlink basically becoming nothing more than a high-tech laser sight.
-
Why are we still arguing this.
A firearm that is wireless enabled can be bricked.
You cannot fire a firearm that is bricked.
(...but you can still use it to pistol whip or rifle butt)
SR5 p. 228 Bricking
If a device is bricked, it stops working: batteries are drained, mechanical parts are fused or gummed up with melted internals, and so on. That said, not all devices are completely useless when bricked. A vibrosword is still sharp, a roto-drone glides to the ground on auto-gyro, a lock stays locked. The firing pin on an assault rifle might not work, but its bayonet works just fine for stabbing smug hackers. And you can’t exactly brick a katana, ne? And don’t panic when your trickedout combat bike gets bricked; it will ride again … if you know a competent technician.
You guys that still argue that you can fire a firearm after it have been bricked; Please provide a page reference that say so.
Thank you.
-
Why are we still arguing this.
A firearm that is wireless enabled can be bricked.
You cannot fire a firearm that is bricked.
(...but you can still use it to pistol whip or rifle butt)
SR5 p. 228 Bricking
If a device is bricked, it stops working: batteries are drained, mechanical parts are fused or gummed up with melted internals, and so on. That said, not all devices are completely useless when bricked. A vibrosword is still sharp, a roto-drone glides to the ground on auto-gyro, a lock stays locked. The firing pin on an assault rifle might not work, but its bayonet works just fine for stabbing smug hackers. And you can’t exactly brick a katana, ne? And don’t panic when your trickedout combat bike gets bricked; it will ride again … if you know a competent technician.
You guys that still argue that you can fire a firearm after it have been bricked; Please provide a page reference that say so.
Thank you.
For me, once again a case of me thinking I'd read something when that wasn't quite the case. For people on their high-horses getting angry about people making mistakes, please remember not everyone's been playing since 1st Ed, and in fact 5th Ed may be their first... with all the referencing to prior editions the rules can be confusing as hell.
-
Why are we still arguing this.
A firearm that is wireless enabled can be bricked.
You cannot fire a firearm that is bricked.
(...but you can still use it to pistol whip or rifle butt)
SR5 p. 228 Bricking
If a device is bricked, it stops working: batteries are drained, mechanical parts are fused or gummed up with melted internals, and so on. That said, not all devices are completely useless when bricked. A vibrosword is still sharp, a roto-drone glides to the ground on auto-gyro, a lock stays locked. The firing pin on an assault rifle might not work, but its bayonet works just fine for stabbing smug hackers. And you can’t exactly brick a katana, ne? And don’t panic when your trickedout combat bike gets bricked; it will ride again … if you know a competent technician.
You guys that still argue that you can fire a firearm after it have been bricked; Please provide a page reference that say so.
Thank you.
Now, does that mean a hacker doesn't, say, just hack a weapon mount, but the whole drone/vehicle? And thus brick both at the same time?
-
The weapon mount isn't separate from the vehicle icon; shut down the vehicle, shut down the mount. That being said, there's no reason to keep a mount wirelessly enabled, as it gains no bonuses from doing so.
-
... slapping, no. But adding an external smartlink usually involves a bit more than sticking it on top and away you go. It takes a bit of time to hook up connectors, put in place the fibroids to be able to automatically ratchet the slide, etc. Because even if it's external, you still can do all that sort of thing (drop the clip, put the safety on/off, chamber/eject a round, etc.), which means all those parts have to be in place. Don't take my description to be license for you to say 'oh, I have an external smartlink, mine can't be bricked' without your external smartlink basically becoming nothing more than a high-tech laser sight.
Hmm... I admit I didn't think about other parts. Still, do you really need all of the components? Sacrifacing faster magazine ejection and switching firing mode in exchange for immunity to bricking looks like a good trade.
-
... slapping, no. But adding an external smartlink usually involves a bit more than sticking it on top and away you go. It takes a bit of time to hook up connectors, put in place the fibroids to be able to automatically ratchet the slide, etc. Because even if it's external, you still can do all that sort of thing (drop the clip, put the safety on/off, chamber/eject a round, etc.), which means all those parts have to be in place. Don't take my description to be license for you to say 'oh, I have an external smartlink, mine can't be bricked' without your external smartlink basically becoming nothing more than a high-tech laser sight.
Hmm... I admit I didn't think about other parts. Still, do you really need all of the components? Sacrifacing faster magazine ejection and switching firing mode in exchange for immunity to bricking looks like a good trade.
Theoretically? Perhaps not. But from a game mechanics point of view, your gun is already wireless so it makes no difference one way or another. It's an all or nothing deal unless you house rule it.
-
Sacrifacing faster magazine ejection and switching firing mode in exchange for immunity to bricking looks like a good trade.
You also sacrifice one category of wind compensation, both bonuses from take aim actions and a positive dice pool modifier of 1 or 2 dice (depending on if your smartlink is internal or not)
If you go wireless OFF and connect your firearm with a wire to your goggles (or your datajack if you have smartlink in your eyes) then you still get +2 accuracy, shooting around corners for -3 dice instead of -6 and you gain immunity to hacking. That's it.