Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Rooks on <06-03-15/0131:32>
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Trying to figure out the usefulness of this but I can recall in SR4 you can just run something on your comlink and it would translate it for you, hell theres an app irl that will translate written word into your prefered language and most smart phones you can just type what you want to say and it will translate it in whatever language you want
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Mmm-hmmm. Absolutely correct. And you can google how to do anything, and any information you want to know is on the web somewhere, so why have skillsofts either?
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Mmm-hmmm. Absolutely correct. And you can google how to do anything, and any information you want to know is on the web somewhere, so why have skillsofts either?
Time? it takes time to learn a skill even knowsofts it takes time to search a book on electronics even then you dont know the procedures you just know the stuff about it or the what not the how
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Oh! So there would be a reason to have a knowledge/skill chip handy!! Good to know.
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Simple translations would (usually) work fine. We often use that in games, too.
However, remember that, when using social skills, you're limited to the language skill in question - that would be 0, here. That makes sense - when translating via commlink, with all the pauses, incorrect phrasings, etc inherent in computer translations, you won't be able to properly express yourself (remember, even with 21st century computers, perfect translations can't exist because different languages use fundamentally different concepts).
Not to mention that using a commlink to translate might come over badly to a lot of people, giving further penalties. And it's slower, much slower to communicate that way.
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Course you can just speak the language not understand what the person is telling you
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Course you can just speak the language not understand what the person is telling you
... What?
Linguasofts also allow you to know what people are telling you, if that's what you're saying.
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I see it as. . .
Know language X
"So sir he backed into your parked car?"
"Yes the car backed into me"
Linguasoft
"Ccxxxxxc"
"so he keyholed your ruderbager eh"
"What?"
"xjfxhxjjxjdj"
"xhxjzhddfkz"
"He backed unto your car?"
"yes"
Either way you can talk but you can't be charming and diplomatic because your waiting for translations which may or may not be misinterpreted by the machine (depending on the softs rating" and even thr best ones will miss certain key concepts underlying the language.
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Especially true for Tone languages (like many Asian languages)
Spent 20 minutes trying to pronounce my Hotel's name to a taxi driver (that actually spoke broken english fairly well)
I would pronouce it and he would go:
Huh? The no hotel called Sidewalk!
[Me]
Huh? The no hotel called market.
[Me]
Huh? Oh you want meat market! Me take you to whore house.
[Me]
Huh? No hotel called slap face in Vietnam!
[Me]
Oh! Park side hotel! Ok i take you!
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Just cause Google shows you the word, doesn't mean you can actually say it correctly 😲
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Especially true for Tone languages (like many Asian languages)
Spent 20 minutes trying to pronounce my Hotel's name to a taxi driver (that actually spoke broken english fairly well)
I would pronouce it and he would go:
Huh? The no hotel called Sidewalk!
[Me]
Huh? The no hotel called market.
[Me]
Huh? Oh you want meat market! Me take you to whore house.
[Me]
Huh? No hotel called slap face in Vietnam!
[Me]
Oh! Park side hotel! Ok i take you!
●●●●
Just cause Google shows you the word, doesn't mean you can actually say it correctly 😲
course you could just show them the word or use a text to speech device
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Not for tone languages.
As is common in many asain languages, they have a single character that represents multiple things. Its very hard to explain....
For example: "$" to us it means money, or dollars.
In a sex services posting, each "$" means 100 bucks...
For them, the same symbol could mean:
House,
Boat,
Sunset,
Flower,
Smelly.
So "showing" a character means nothing to them without a context for it. And that boils down to the tone of each sylible of the word. Emphsize the sylibles differently, different word.
Mehow. (The character for hello)
ME-HoW: fuck off
MeH-oW: wonderful sunset
me-How: I am happy
Meow: I want cat for dinner.
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Reaver, they may seem the same to us, and they may be written the same in Roman script, but you can just show the text in the actual language. When written down, those words are very much different.
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... and 'written down' is kind of exactly the opposite of what we're talking about, here - nor is there always a difference in the tonal character. To boot, it requires an understanding of the tone of what you just heard, or a linguasoft-level infochip to provide that tonal 'ear' to it. You can, of course, speak/type in 'please direct me to the Hotel Mari' and (hopefully) your commlink translator program will work properly, but you still have a step or two distance between your lips and their ear. You have to hope that the translation program has an accurate 'ear' as well ...
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Reaver, they may seem the same to us, and they may be written the same in Roman script, but you can just show the text in the actual language. When written down, those words are very much different.
Then by all means, goto Vietnam and wave your Iphone with a single character at them. Won't help.
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Exactly! just like you need an active soft for navigation and tracking ??? cause ya a mapsoft cant just do that, oh wait in 4e it could
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IRL, my Spanish is a 1-2. I always describe it as 'enough Spanish to get myself into trouble but not enough to get myself out of it.' I use Google Translate every day on correspondence between me and my Spanish-speaking colleagues. You can use it to learn some new vocabulary, and you can use it to reply to email and texts that you get. But to reply to someone using the language? Even if you know the language some? It works for text conversations, but not verbal ones.
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Knowsoft and Linguasoft vs instant translate.
Note that a Datasoft is essentially a digital book, or, well, more of a digital library. The knowledge is there for you to hunt around in, read when bored, or look things up, without a true understanding of things. If you had an Encyclopedia set, and I asked you about Edison, you could flip through the book and find out details, but it'd take a minute and might not have info I'm looking for. With a Knowsoft, that knowledge is as on-hand as any other memory, allowing you to immediately start spouting off details without having to search and, furthermore, you can extrapolate that data as you could other knowledges, thus allowing you to, say, not only answer a question but to extrapolate from there to other questions.
Linguasofts are able to both translate what you read/hear and allow you to speak/write the language. This includes tonality (And English is a tonal language as well, by the by, due to inflection, it's just not as pronounced as in some other languages.) and can handle some degree of idiom (if a decently-advanced program) and slang, where a simple translation program might not. So, where a freebie might tell you that someone has "trash in storage", the Linguasoft would leave no doubt that she had junk in dat trunk.
Note that Linguasofts, or at least the cheaper ones, have a somewhat stilted delivery as the knowledge has to zot your neurons to get the right sounds out, giving "chipped" speakers a distinctive sound where it isn't quite flowing like an actual speaker is.
(( As for tonality, the sentence "I never said she stole my money" has seven different meanings, dependning on which word you stress. Go ahead and try it at home! ))
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So, where a freebie might tell you that someone has "trash in storage", the Linguasoft would leave no doubt that she had junk in dat trunk.
Aaaaahahahahahaha. I'm totally stealing that one for future reference...
(( As for tonality, the sentence "I never said she stole my money" has seven different meanings, dependning on which word you stress. Go ahead and try it at home! ))
Good one; never quite thought about it like that.
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You can translate anything by typing it in, yes, but...
Try and have a real life, face-to-face conversation with someone who is speaking a language you don't understand and try typing everything they say into a phone/laptop after they say it. Then try translating back what you want to say and pronouncing it in a way they understand. I really doubt most people could do this. Heck, go actually try it with an untranslated YouTube video of someone speaking a foreign language you don't know. See if you can even record what they're saying.
Even if it worked, which it wouldn't, it is still very slow and very awkward. Now, this is assuming they are using basic terms (no slang or idioms) and speaking clearly and slowly.
Now let's add modifiers to how difficult it'd be. Here's some examples:
They're young and talking in a lot of slang you don't understand.
They're a non-native speaker and have an accent from another language.
They are frustrated and rushed.
They are scared and shakey.
They are excited and speaking quickly.
They are in danger and are shouting angrily.
They are threatening you and not willing to be patient.
They are sad and mumbling.
And so on. Language is difficult, there's a reason why interpreters are a thing. And consequently, so you don't have to bring along an interpreter, Shadowrun has Linguasofts.
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Exactly! just like you need an active soft for navigation and tracking ??? cause ya a mapsoft cant just do that, oh wait in 4e it could
Wait, what's this about mapsofts not being navigator's?
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What would Google Translate, and it's more advanced cousin, Skype Translator, count as? Because the latter will actually perform real-time translation (though only for a select few languages so far).
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They're not. They're a map. You plug the mapsoft into your car, and your car uses the map information to plot a course - just like it always has. (Don't know about 4e, but I'd presume they didn't give you THAT much.)
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Exactly! just like you need an active soft for navigation and tracking ??? cause ya a mapsoft cant just do that, oh wait in 4e it could
Wait, what's this about mapsofts not being navigator's?
Mapsoft: Mapsoft programs feature detailed information
about a particular area, from streets to business/
residential listings to topographical, census, GPS and
environmental data. An interactive interface allows you
to quickly determine the best routes and directions, locate
the nearest spot of your choice, or create your own
customized maps. If a wireless link is maintained, the
map automatically self-updates with the latest data from
GridGuide. Of course, this feature also means that the
mapsoft can be used to track your location. At the gamemaster’s
discretion, mapsofts provide a +1 limit bonus
to Navigation Tests made to navigate the area they cover.
4th Edition
Using Navigation
Navigation is handled as a Success Test, with the threshold based
on how confusing the terrain is. Apply modifiers for poor conditions
(visibility, weather), helpful landmarks, or directions from locals.
Mapsofts add their ratings in dice to the test.
Starting to like 4th Edition Matrix so much more
Oh oh wait theres more! 3rd edition!
Autonav Map Chips: Detailed maps available for all urban
areas, these allow vehicles with Rating 2 autonav and higher to
follow any mapped route as long as it does not cover terrain
classified as rough.
gotta love these Matrix Crashes
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What would Google Translate, and it's more advanced cousin, Skype Translator, count as? Because the latter will actually perform real-time translation (though only for a select few languages so far).
hey folks lets play 4th edition vs 5th edition
4th Edition Linguasoft's
Linguasofts replicate language skills, allowing the
user to speak a foreign language as fluently as her native language.
Linguasofts may also be used as real-time translation programs.
Linguasofts must be accessed with a direct neural link (either a sim
module or datajack). No need for a skilljack here folks!
5th Edtion
Linguasofts must be accessed with a skilljack, which limits how many skillsofts you can use at a time
Because when you live in a world where theres such a thing as something that records thoughts and FEELINGs on something as small as a usb flash drive, course now Im curious how two people talking through DNI works, if thats some form of techno telepathy
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hate 5e because they got back to their roots. Get past it, or stick with 4e.
Mapsofts adding their ratings (which meant you had to pay more per rating point, you know?) didn't mean they were navigators; it just meant that they were better maps.
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You can translate anything by typing it in, yes, but...
Try and have a real life, face-to-face conversation with someone who is speaking a language you don't understand and try typing everything they say into a phone/laptop after they say it. Then try translating back what you want to say and pronouncing it in a way they understand. I really doubt most people could do this. Heck, go actually try it with an untranslated YouTube video of someone speaking a foreign language you don't know. See if you can even record what they're saying.
Even if it worked, which it wouldn't, it is still very slow and very awkward. Now, this is assuming they are using basic terms (no slang or idioms) and speaking clearly and slowly.
Now let's add modifiers to how difficult it'd be. Here's some examples:
They're young and talking in a lot of slang you don't understand.
They're a non-native speaker and have an accent from another language.
They are frustrated and rushed.
They are scared and shakey.
They are excited and speaking quickly.
They are in danger and are shouting angrily.
They are threatening you and not willing to be patient.
They are sad and mumbling.
And so on. Language is difficult, there's a reason why interpreters are a thing. And consequently, so you don't have to bring along an interpreter, Shadowrun has Linguasofts.
I did using my smartphone speech to text function and Word Lense augmented reality app from the google play store and this is 2015 so I think they would have that on lock down 60 years from now
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Just throwing this one in for consideration, what about using a tutorsoft for quick and dirty translation?
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You can translate anything by typing it in, yes, but...
Try and have a real life, face-to-face conversation with someone who is speaking a language you don't understand and try typing everything they say into a phone/laptop after they say it. Then try translating back what you want to say and pronouncing it in a way they understand. I really doubt most people could do this. Heck, go actually try it with an untranslated YouTube video of someone speaking a foreign language you don't know. See if you can even record what they're saying.
Even if it worked, which it wouldn't, it is still very slow and very awkward. Now, this is assuming they are using basic terms (no slang or idioms) and speaking clearly and slowly.
Now let's add modifiers to how difficult it'd be. Here's some examples:
They're young and talking in a lot of slang you don't understand.
They're a non-native speaker and have an accent from another language.
They are frustrated and rushed.
They are scared and shakey.
They are excited and speaking quickly.
They are in danger and are shouting angrily.
They are threatening you and not willing to be patient.
They are sad and mumbling.
And so on. Language is difficult, there's a reason why interpreters are a thing. And consequently, so you don't have to bring along an interpreter, Shadowrun has Linguasofts.
I did using my smartphone speech to text function and Word Lense augmented reality app from the google play store and this is 2015 so I think they would have that on lock down 60 years from now
That's my thought.
Yes, Firebug, language is difficult. And translation apps, even in 2075, are going to be slow and cumbersome to communicate with. And they will probably have problems with nuances - that's why you can't use your social skills effectively when using them. But you can use them for basic communication, and with some care and patience from both time you'd be able to get some useful dialog going.
Now, if you want to calm someone down by waving your commlink at them and have it translate your speech, that's probably not going to work. And making someone talk by making a robotic voice synthesize badly-translated threats probably isn't going to get you anything either. It's limited. But that doesn't mean it can't be effective when you need it.
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Just a thought...
What would happen if you linked the datajacks of two individuals who speak different languages. Would they be able to communicate as it's thought to thought, or would it still be unintelligible?
I can't actually decide one way or the other.
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I'd say unintelligeable as we tend to think in a language e.g. if I think the lolly packet is green thats an english term.
There is a bit about navigation with mapsoft just no rules.
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Yeah, I don't think you could communicate just because you had a mind link. As a multi-lingual person, I know that it took a few months at least before I started thinking in English.
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I'm inclined to agree with "no" on the DNI comm question. I often notice myself thinking in one language or another, and (though I'm far from an expert) I believe it's well established that language is an essential part of though. As in, people of different languages often think differently as well, as concepts are expressed differently in different languages, even internally.
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Yeah, I find myself agreeing with you all.
Oh, I wish Skilljacks didn't cost so much!
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Yeah, I find myself agreeing with you all.
Oh, I wish Skilljacks didn't cost so much!
German book says its costs 2k per level but then in the lock down book based on the costs of the cybersuites its back up to 20k per level SR 4th edition it was 2k per level too as a basis point
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Hrm.
Cheaper ways to access non-gamebreaking technology like language translation programs?
Hmmm...
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I thought it was 1k per rating in the German book for the Skilljack. I'll have to check when I get home.
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I'd love to see the German version of teh cyber at some time. I'm *very* curious how they handled pricing on certain things.
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Hrm.
Cheaper ways to access non-gamebreaking technology like language translation programs?
Hmmm...
4th edition had Carnivore Gold, which was a translation program for languages, slang, argots, etc - at the price and availability of a common use program.
You won't be holding a verbal conversation with it, but if the words do not need to come directly out of your mouth, then there should be an app for it post-2075.
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I forget where but Im pretty sure the ASIST helps mute people speak as well since you could send text messages or have a test to speech device kinda like Stephen Hawking has, but I guess people still "think" in languages they are grown up around too, still if I can text it to a translator and then translate it to a language then have the text to speech program say it outloud for me.
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The translate spell has a number of restrictions, but does come in handy if you need to negotiate with - for example - storm dolphins.
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There's probably more active translation programs out there, but none for free. They'd be pretty expensive (for a normal person, anyways) too I'm sure.
I didn't mean to imply they can't be used at all, more that linguasofts are in no way useless as there's numerous situations where basic translation simply isn't enough.
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Course now theres Translat-Ear but that only translates for you not for them
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Course now theres Translat-Ear but that only translates for you not for them
I hope that that thing'll get some use. I have no idea how common language issues are in games other than my own.
Of course, the new Wireless Network options allow for some insane polyglot options. Expensive, but if the team pitches in for one person...
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My current plan for my SRM character/polyglot-in-training: Learning Stimulus nanites + Linguist PQ + Mnemonic Enhancers + Jack of All Trades PQ.
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My current plan for my SRM character/polyglot-in-training: Learning Stimulus nanites + Linguist PQ + Mnemonic Enhancers + Jack of All Trades PQ.
What about adding in the adept power that lets you learn languages for free?
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My current plan for my SRM character/polyglot-in-training: Learning Stimulus nanites + Linguist PQ + Mnemonic Enhancers + Jack of All Trades PQ.
What about adding in the adept power that lets you learn languages for free?
Linguistics gets you going for free. Add on the Linguist PQ and the only rank you're paying full price for is 2.