Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Rooks on <06-09-15/0252:33>
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as title 16 armor?
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Crunch-wise yes, as they are both Vashon Island brands. Fluff-wise it would be an... interesting fashion choice, since the Synergist longcoat is daytime business wear and the Sleeping Tiger is an evening fashion line.
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Does the +3 mean you need a str of at least 2 or do custom fit negate that?
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Yes, it stacks. Armor-wise anyway - I'm not the person to ask when it comes to style.
Rooks, the +3 counts as far as encumbrance is concerned (at least, last I read - there was some debate on this when it came out). You don't need STR3 to wear it though - it just triggers the armor encumbrance rules.
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the Sleeping Tiger is an evening fashion line
That's a remarkably polite euphemism for such a crass twist on alternative fashion scenes, orxploitation and corporate wear.
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Sleeping Tiger has Ruthenium Polymers. It can look like whatever you want, even and especially like the wall behind you.
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You can colour it to whatever you want it to look like. It's still going to be definably Sleeping Tiger as long as you can be seen wearing it.
There's an important difference when the style, cut, materials, weave, etc -everything but the colour- are the relevant sticking point over whether or not a non-goblinoid wearing ST in the Ork Underground is likely to get beaten up. ;)
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over whether or not a non-goblinoid wearing ST in the Ork Underground is likely to get beaten up. ;)
Wait, this is a thing?
... Remind me not to buy ST.
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(http://s17.postimg.org/h48f8ien3/Sleeping_Tiger.jpg)
Seeing as TPTB decided to not include anything in R&G on what it looks like, this is the most recent description we have. Some orks and trolls like it, but you're more likely to meet them inside a corporate enclave, arcology, or gated neighbourhood.
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the Sleeping Tiger is an evening fashion line
That's a remarkably polite euphemism for such a crass twist on alternative fashion scenes, orxploitation and corporate wear.
I'm British. I'm a remarkably polite person. ;)
Also, the description back in Cannon Companion was so difficult to take in I couldn't come up with a more descriptive term short of doing as you did and cut/pasting the original text. It's no wonder that Sleeping Tiger has such a high armour value, just wearing it in public would be an invitation to get beaten up in the 2070s (and not just by Orks and Trolls).
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Sleeping Tiger has Ruthenium Polymers. It can look like whatever you want, even and especially like the wall behind you.
how is that different from Electrochromic clothing?
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Sleeping Tiger has Ruthenium Polymers. It can look like whatever you want, even and especially like the wall behind you.
how is that different from Electrochromic clothing?
Ruthenium Polymers is an active chameleon effect (Predator) where it gives a -Rating (+0 Full, +1 Almost Full, +2 Half) to opponents Perception check. So the Rating 3 in a Sleeping Tiger suit gives a -2 to Opposed Perception Tests vs your Sneaking Tests. Electrochemical clothing makes your shirt Red or Blue. Not nearly the same thing... hence why one is readily available and dirt cheap while the other is 16F and super expensive!!!!
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Yes, they can stack. You have to deal with Armor Encumbrance if you lack sufficient strength for the +3 armor. You can also stack the Synergist Long Coat with the Steampunk armor as well, if you were to go that route.
What kills me, though, is how Sleeping Tiger suddenly has Ruthenium Polymers. Up until Run & Gun it was always just elctrochromic modification (simple color change, not active camouflage). I don't know that it will ever be errata'd, but I house rule it more in line with the earlier edition descriptions, and, as such, drop the cost by ¥9,000 to compensate for the difference.
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well to be fair
electrochromic modification
Electrochromic threads
can change color with voltage, letting you alter the color
of your clothing or display text, images, or patterns. This
is good for fashion, but great for vanishing into a crowd
if you need a quick costume change.
Ruthenium Polymers
The ruthenium polymers are
controlled by a sensor suite incorporated into the armor or clothing that
scans the surroundings and replicates images of the area at the proper
perspectives, helping the wearer blend in. The effectiveness is based
on the Rating of the sensor suite and the extent of the suit’s coverage
One just changes color the other scans surroundings
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That's the point. Sleeping Tiger - a (legal!) suit known for being able to change colors, costing less then Ruthenium PC R3, has the (forbidden!) camouflaging Ruthenium PC at R3 builtin. It makes no sense.
Even without RPC it's one of the best armors you can buy - more armor than an armor jacket while appearing like an ordinary suit? Yes please! With the legal RPC on top, it's overpowered to the point where I don't get it because I feel it's too cheesy.
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It's forbidden, unless in clothing meant for the corporate elite produced by a megacorporation. Seems like it could use a higher availability though. I also can't help but thinking, wonderful armor but if it gets hacked you could literally find it painting a target on you. Still, yeah that seems like it's some of the best armor in the game.
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That's the point. Sleeping Tiger - a (legal!) suit known for being able to change colors, costing less then Ruthenium PC R3, has the (forbidden!) camouflaging Ruthenium PC at R3 builtin. It makes no sense.
Even without RPC it's one of the best armors you can buy - more armor than an armor jacket while appearing like an ordinary suit? Yes please! With the legal RPC on top, it's overpowered to the point where I don't get it because I feel it's too cheesy.
not to mention you can wear a coat over top of it and wear a helmet and arm guards and ballistic mask provided you have enough strength
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That's the point. Sleeping Tiger - a (legal!) suit known for being able to change colors, costing less then Ruthenium PC R3, has the (forbidden!) camouflaging Ruthenium PC at R3 builtin. It makes no sense.
Even without RPC it's one of the best armors you can buy - more armor than an armor jacket while appearing like an ordinary suit? Yes please! With the legal RPC on top, it's overpowered to the point where I don't get it because I feel it's too cheesy.
not to mention you can wear a coat over top of it and wear a helmet and arm guards and ballistic mask provided you have enough strength
At which point you never need to fire another shot as your opponents die laughing every time you appear.
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Works for me.
I don't care how silly I look once I'm in a combat situation. I care that the armor keeps me alive.
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Thats why you carry the armor bag
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If we're going to be discussing individual armors, I'l like to point out the potential benefits of an armored cloak that could be quickly removed by a runner and placed around an extraction target.
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If we're going to be discussing individual armors, I'l like to point out the potential benefits of an armored cloak that could be quickly removed by a runner and placed around an extraction target.
We use the Body Armor Bag for those sorts of things.
Something else that I noticed, though, with other armors. The Mortimer of London Great Coat (Chemical Protection 2 and Insulation 2) and Ulysses Coats (Chemical Protection 4) lost these built in protections. It seems there are a lot of changes being made for no apparent reasons.
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Something else that I noticed, though, with other armors. The Mortimer of London Great Coat (Chemical Protection 2 and Insulation 2) and Ulysses Coats (Chemical Protection 4) lost these built in protections. It seems there are a lot of changes being made for no apparent reasons.
What, since SR4? It's a new edition, a lot of much bigger changes happened. It's kind of the point of a new edition.
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Yes, it stacks. Armor-wise anyway - I'm not the person to ask when it comes to style.
Rooks, the +3 counts as far as encumbrance is concerned (at least, last I read - there was some debate on this when it came out). You don't need STR3 to wear it though - it just triggers the armor encumbrance rules.
Sleeping Tiger has Custom Fit and Synergist Business lined coat has custom fit (stack) so it shouldn't trigger the Armor encumbrance rules. Otherwise what is the point of the Custom Fit and Custom Fit (stack) rules if +X Custom Fit (stack) does exactly the same thing as any +X armor gear?
As a GM I'd rule wearing the lined coat over the Sleeping Tiger would eliminate the benefits of the Ruthenium fibers though since the SB lined coat covers them. It's not real helpful being the invisible man if you're wearing a coat that covers you from Neck to Knee. Sure your shins are sneaky, but as it turns out, that isn't real useful most of the time.
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A good Con roll, and some good rping, I could see the invisible under the coat thing being SCARY as hell...
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Yes, it stacks. Armor-wise anyway - I'm not the person to ask when it comes to style.
Rooks, the +3 counts as far as encumbrance is concerned (at least, last I read - there was some debate on this when it came out). You don't need STR3 to wear it though - it just triggers the armor encumbrance rules.
Sleeping Tiger has Custom Fit and Synergist Business lined coat has custom fit (stack) so it shouldn't trigger the Armor encumbrance rules. Otherwise what is the point of the Custom Fit and Custom Fit (stack) rules if +X Custom Fit (stack) does exactly the same thing as any +X armor gear?
I don't know, and I think it's a stupid way to implement it. But that's how Missions, at least, ruled it (I'm not entirely sure if there was a definitive answer from the devs on this, though).
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Personally as GM I'll be ruling it that you cannot stack these. I'd be ok with stacking the coat with the other suits, but that can only get you to 12 armour (13 with Berwick Suit and Argentum Coat), but adding +3 to Sleeping Tiger would take it above SWAT armor, which is getting crazy.
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Ah, hadn't realized there was a semi-formal ruling. Is that for all custom fit (stack) or just this particular combo?
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All of them.
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All of them.
Why would that be a stupid way of doing it? You have to have Str 1 to trigger armor encumbrance with a +3... stacking Synergist with Sleeping Tiger is RAW (A lot to do with how poorly Run & Gun as a book itself is) but man that's a hideous combo. Orkxplotation & middle management style would be a huge Faux Pas in every Social setting there is. Talk about looking foolish for 1 measly Armor point over a Armor Jacket & some PPP/Ballistic Mask/Helmet.
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Because it makes Stacking Fit kind of silly and useless. Why get both if you can just use the coat and helm/arm protectors/socks to get a much higher bonus?
I mean, getting both theoretically has a higher bonus, but only once you get superhuman strengths so that you can stack all the armor bonuses. And I guess it helps if you don't want to wear a helmet.
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Well its like the 2nd skin line customer fit (stack) stuff stacks with other custom fit stuff from the same company right? so 2nd skin has custom fit (stack) so what does it stack with anything it was tailored to? is it an ares victory line?
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Second Skin stacks with the Zoe line of clothing.
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Because it makes Stacking Fit kind of silly and useless. Why get both if you can just use the coat and helm/arm protectors/socks to get a much higher bonus?
I mean, getting both theoretically has a higher bonus, but only once you get superhuman strengths so that you can stack all the armor bonuses. And I guess it helps if you don't want to wear a helmet.
No it makes it Armor appropriate for the Environment you are in... not to enable armor stacking cheese. The game has numbers it likes to hang around... getting a full +7 is for a Str 3 character while everyone is dressed atrociously isn't the goal. Anyone who Stacks Sleeping Tiger & Synergist Line Coat should get Distinctive Style when they do it & a point of Notoriety the second time they wear the combo for their fashion sense offending everyone who looks at them.
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Yeah, sure.
Thank god we are not in a cyberpunk setting.
Making some gear good and available at character generation is an indicator for me that the designers want you to use it... 8)
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If the wanted you to use it reduce the availability or increase the character generation availability
(http://s4.postimg.org/z90olema5/Sleeping_Tiger.jpg)
Ya so if your an ork or troll sure fine, anyone else not so much or they could have wrote which of the high style armors is appropriate for what type of setting or is it all? or wearing one thing is a dead give away you are a runner cause its the only thing available Mortimer of London vs the Heritage line
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@Rook
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
Also I don't see why you are bringing up the old write up. R&G clearly states that it's a new edition.
To be precise:
"[...] With the Shiawase connection, they have brought back the Sleeping Tiger with a vengeance. Each line has its own set of highlights that can draw a different audience."[...]
"> Shiawase brought back the Sleeping Tiger line, but word on the street is they put a hell of a lot more nuyen into R&D than they will ever earn back from the armor. The new incarnation builds from the foundation created by the old with an upgraded color-change system and even an adaptive camouflage feature for the right price. I can guarantee that they’re exploring other uses for this technology.
> Ma’fan"
That doesn't sound like a fashion fauxpas to me. The thing is completely customizable in regard to color and even - with the right settings - appearance. It can display any texture you want and even make the high collars invisible if you want to.
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I don't have any personal quarrel with anyone handwaving ST into a level of blandness where the statline and legal RPC become the main identifying attributes. It just sounds boring.
Also I don't see why you are bringing up the old write up
That would likely be because there is no other description of what Sleeping Tiger looks like.
That doesn't sound like a fashion fauxpas to me. The thing is completely customizable in regard to color and even - with the right settings - appearance.
You can change the colour and any surface images, or make an almost perfect replica of whatever the suit's RPC sensors are picking up nearby. You can even buy multiple different unspecified lines that all fit under the same general description of 'Sleeping Tiger' - same as you could with any clothing line.
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Its like chameolon coating, just cause it has the same color as a doc wagon ambulance, doesnt make a ford americar an ambulance
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Because it makes Stacking Fit kind of silly and useless. Why get both if you can just use the coat and helm/arm protectors/socks to get a much higher bonus?
I mean, getting both theoretically has a higher bonus, but only once you get superhuman strengths so that you can stack all the armor bonuses. And I guess it helps if you don't want to wear a helmet.
No it makes it Armor appropriate for the Environment you are in... not to enable armor stacking cheese. The game has numbers it likes to hang around... getting a full +7 is for a Str 3 character while everyone is dressed atrociously isn't the goal. Anyone who Stacks Sleeping Tiger & Synergist Line Coat should get Distinctive Style when they do it & a point of Notoriety the second time they wear the combo for their fashion sense offending everyone who looks at them.
No the ruling makes the qualities Custom Fit and Custom Fit (stacked) mechanically nothing at all. Literally no different than any other armor, except for characters with greater than what ....10? Strength? I can't imagine the intent was to buff Troll soak totals, and only troll soak totals.
Anyway, simplifies my armor choices if ever I manage to show up for a Missions run at a Con I guess.
Shields are ?7? Helmet of 2, Forearm guards, Secure tech.... total of 12 if memory serves? So, need 11 STR to need Custom Fit (stack) to actually matter. Or like a 18ish Agility I guess.
Yeah, silly ruling. *shrug*
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shields are 6 helmets are 2 forearm guards are 1 against melee only securetech ppp arms and legs are +1 each for non full body armor only vitals are only for armored clothing only, so you can if you want put the legs and arms on the jacket then the vital kit on the clothing underneath
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I can't imagine the intent was to buff Troll soak totals, and only troll soak totals.
Yeah, silly ruling. *shrug*
I do get the sense trolls need something, though.