Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: UnLimiTeD on <06-25-15/0827:22>

Title: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-25-15/0827:22>
So, simple question here:
Is there a limit to how much ware of a single type, be it bioware or cyberware, you can actually install in a single person?
And do they stack?
I remember there's certainly a discussion about datajacks, or was, at least.
The questions thrown around were if
A) the noise reduction stacks,
B) what it actually applies to and
C) how does it benefit Technomancers.

So, given that the apparent consensus is that datajacks do indeed stack, what else does?
And isn't that horrible broken?
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Xenon on <06-25-15/0841:22>
Datajack "...gives you Rating 1 noise reduction. "

At our table two or more datajacks still "gives you Rating 1 noise reduction". This might or might not be a house rule.

(... yes, I would consider it horrible broken if you can get more noise reduction by stacking datajacks - noise would become a no issue for both deckers and riggers).
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Jack_Spade on <06-25-15/0844:05>
Ignore the datajack: Just get a coat with Fresnel Fabric and enjoy the sweet sweet 7 points of noise reduction - no lost essence and no hassle about the rules.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: NoxMortem on <06-25-15/0850:41>
Multiple DataJacks stack (see FAQ Thread, search for answers by the freelaner Aaron) - you won't get a more official answer than that.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-25-15/1554:59>
Well, I'm not talking about Datajacks. I've accepted that nonsense by now.
So, given that the apparent consensus is that datajacks do indeed stack, what else does?
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: adzling on <06-25-15/1627:55>
If you read the descriptions much ware wil not stack with other kinds.
And no you can't install plastic bone lacing twice, har.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-25-15/1835:11>
Well, you can install multiple data jacks, so what about data locks, or platelet factories?
I mean, I'm not even sure you can install two datajacks, but if that's assumed to be true, I can't find anything generally disallowing it for other augmentations.
I hope that something exists, but ....  you know, better ask.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: adzling on <06-25-15/2225:34>
well i think this falls squarely into the territory of "they can't write every single possible permutation or thought exercise into the rules"

imho it's a very similar, if not identical question, to another post on these forums asking if you can shoot an HMGs one-handed.

"it doesn't say you can't..."

har
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: PiXeL01 on <06-25-15/2233:07>
I'm reaching the point about ware where I think along the lines of "if it doesn't say so then no" and that includes Datajacks at my table
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Reaver on <06-26-15/0002:08>
There is a reason I GM with a 2x4.....
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <06-26-15/0032:19>
You can install two datalocks just fine, giving you two separate storage devices with (potentially) different ratings. Platelet factories; sure, why not. The reduction only applies to Pysical damage anyway, so you could still be knocked out unless you also had a pain editor.

In general, I'm open to bending rules if there's a good story reason for it and it doesn't obviously break the game.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Critias on <06-26-15/0343:26>
It's important to note that, even if you choose to interpret the Noise reduction thing as not stacking, there are benefits to multiple datajacks (or datalocks, or whatever).  The primary job is to be a plug, after all, and there are times you'll want to have more stuff plugged in.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Top Dog on <06-26-15/0443:18>
Things that modify the same (anatomical) thing can't be stacked - you can't stack Bone Lacing for example, because you can only lace your bones once; if you could put more aluminium in there, people would do that by default.

Otherwise, I'd say anything that doesn't say it doesn't stack, stacks. You're still paying full price for it, after all.

Platelet factories; sure, why not. The reduction only applies to Pysical damage anyway, so you could still be knocked out unless you also had a pain editor.
Platelet factories do introduce an interesting problem - if you take 2 damage, would it reduce it by 1 twice? (It shouldn't).
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Novocrane on <06-26-15/0616:39>
Platelet factories do introduce an interesting problem - if you take 2 damage, would it reduce it by 1 twice? (It shouldn't).
I do believe a similar situation was handled in 4e by not applying both platelet factories simultaneously. PF1 activates; -1 damage. PF2 activates; not enough damage to take effect.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-26-15/0622:08>
I would indeed apply them both simultaneously, but each needs it's own two damage.
So if you take 3, no luck.
To get a 50% reduction, you'd need to take exactly 2x PF damage.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Whiskeyjack on <06-26-15/1802:28>
I'd say you can only modify your collective bone marrow and spleen once to produce more platelets, frankly.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Overbyte on <06-26-15/1821:31>
If you could do that it would have ratings.
Its really common sense IMO.

My next char will have two cyberskulls.  ;D
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-26-15/1823:17>
Well, honestly, upgrading your bone marrow (half of it is inert, you could replace that) sure gives more room for options than a Brain, that you shouldn't be able to install a ridiculous amount of datajacks in.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: adzling on <06-26-15/2015:47>
this

If you could do that it would have ratings.
Its really common sense IMO.

My next char will have two cyberskulls.  ;D
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-26-15/2018:15>
My group has decided that if multiple datajacks are go, everything else that doesn't treat a specific singular organ is also fair game.
Which is ironic since datajacks treat a singular organ.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Herr Brackhaus on <06-26-15/2040:35>
The brain is the most complex organ in the body, so that one doesn't seem too hard to explain to my mind.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: happybjorn on <06-26-15/2047:32>
There is a distinction to be made between things that reduce penalties (like Noise and Recoil) and things that provide bonuses, penalties and other effects.  Penalty reduction doesn't seem to be handled consistently (compare Recoil and calculating Environmental Modifier).  But this can depend on how your table treats situational modifiers (or how they should be in general).

Not everything is enumerable (or maybe countable would make more sense).  Are we to pretend the a character who has all of their condition monitor boxes filled and is under the effects of some form of sleep geas as being unconscious three times?

Platelet Factories are already plural.  Pretending you can make them more plural seems absurd (while the rating suggestion makes sense). 
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Novocrane on <06-26-15/2107:58>
Pretending you can make them more plural seems absurd (while the rating suggestion makes sense).
I don't disagree that it shouldn't work, but I also don't see a problem with taking two Factories in non-Missions games - until we have Chrome Flesh and something like the Trauma Damper that does stack. (or we find there's nothing to stack with)
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: ScytheKnight on <06-26-15/2112:57>
Umm... doesn't this kinda thing fall under Wheaton's Law?

Just seems like munchkinism getting out of hand to me.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: Novocrane on <06-26-15/2336:03>
Shouldn't there be a corollary to that somewhere, related to assuming dickery?

There's no doubt it could be abused, but I refuse to believe there are no groups capable of reaching an understanding over what is reasonable fair play in the players' and GM's eyes.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: ScytheKnight on <06-27-15/0124:26>
Just... seems really powergamy and munchkiny to me, both as a player and a GM.
Title: Re: Ware stacking
Post by: UnLimiTeD on <06-27-15/0708:15>
Oh, I absolutely agree, but I already do that on Datajacks.
I think it's absolutely silly to potentially get an uplink to the moon for a few essence.