Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Rooks on <07-01-15/1504:33>
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Cyber Singularity Seeker 9 +2 Willpower
Redliner 10 +2 Str +2 Agi
Restricted Gear 10
BTH: Better Than Human 4.5 16R 275,000¥ (kinda of a waste on restricted gear this could have totally been reaction enhancers 2 and been within availablity 12)
+2 Str +2 Agi +3 Reaction +2 Willpower +2 soak +1d6 init dice -1 condition box and cyberlimbs to load up
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Neat, but the boosts to Str and Agi won't do you much if you've got 4 cyberlimbs, you'd end up using the limb ratings for pretty much everything.
(Unless they meant for the boost from redline added to the base stats of the limb? That'd be weird though.)
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Redliner would be boosting the limb stats or it would make no sense since the requirements are said limbs
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Redliner would be boosting the limb stats or it would make no sense since the requirements are said limbs
No it's boosting Your Attributes, this is to help the sinkhole that Cyberlimb characters get stuck in. That's Movement & Physical Limit... either those are dump stats which makes Cyberlimbs be a worthwhile option but then get tripped up by those 2 things or your Attributes are high enough that going Cyberlimbs is stupid since it's cheaper (nuyen & essence) to just raise your Attributes themselves with 'ware.
Redliner penalizes your Physical Damage Track by -2 instead of a +4 bonus which makes this a not awesome trade off. Makes what would be a Tank pretty squishy against another Hard Target. Now I don't think that the BTH is is the best Cybersuite from Lockdown, the best is Super Athlete but BTH is the 3rd best one and its barely usable which is still better than the rest cause they are Not Good! The Cybersuite concept provided in Lockdown works great for a Video Game mechanic but in the RPG I feel it falls apart by depriving any Customization or Options. The Super Athlete is just so POWERFUL it overcomes it's limitations & Front Line Mind is right there behind it. Better than Human works decently by providing a lot of choices in cyberlimb gizmos, the issue is if you have to use the Stock Limbs provided in the Suite or can you substitute Custom Cyberlimbs in and pay more? If your GM says the second option than its usable but if it's the first option than it becomes as much trash as the rest of the Cybersuites.
All in all I fell like Redliner was as much of a let down as most of the rest was. If it only canceled the bonus to the PD Track then it wouldn't be that bad & might make fully cybered characters viable. Instead it took away one of their Strengths & turned it into a Weakness, doubtful enough to compensate for their inherent handicap they already had in comparison to other Street Sam builds.
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Yet if you read it, all it is talking about is Cyberlimbs. Your Cyberlimbs are jacked to the max that is why they get it. You lose boxes because not only are you stressing the hardware you are stressing your body too. It is away for people to throw karma at getting that last augmented point that they normally could not get. Whether the meat side of things also it is up in the air. As written I would say yes ...
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PiXeL01, now that I look at it I think your interpretation makes sense. Otherwise it'd be a fairly pointless quality. I can't think of any tests that wouldn't use the arms and legs, so your natural attributes would pretty much never come into play. Especially if you rule that agility upgrades on legs increase your movement rate (seems they should, otherwise agility upgrades on legs are pointless).
Also, from a fluff standpoint, it seems weird that redlining your metal arms and legs would make your meat torso stronger.
If all it does is increase some stats for the purpose of movement rate and physical limit, there are much better and cheaper ways to do that.
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Yet if you read it, all it is talking about is Cyberlimbs. Your Cyberlimbs are jacked to the max that is why they get it. You lose boxes because not only are you stressing the hardware you are stressing your body too. It is away for people to throw karma at getting that last augmented point that they normally could not get. Whether the meat side of things also it is up in the air. As written I would say yes ...
You could be right... there are so many holes in this book I now now the Pain that Street Grimore caused (though Ways were cool & they addressed the problem of Upgrading Foci which this book still failed at.) But that would make this Quality Complete Trash!!!! It still doesn't address the Movement or Physical Limit Sinkholes that fully Cybered characters fall into. That last +1 is meaningless when you are using Str & Agi as semi dump stats. If you raise them high enough to have a decent Movement & Physical Limit, then getting Cyberlimbs is dumb. Just raise the Attributes themselves with Ware. It's already ¥72k per limb to get Str 6/Agi 9, Armor 3... ×4 = ¥288k & 4 points of Essence. That's before investing in Reaction & Initiative.... which a Street Sam needs badly. The Essence cost is restricting you to Synaptic Booster which is about 100k a Rating.
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Then again you are getting 2 str 2 agi and 2 wp all of which can now be placed into body to recoup your condition boxes and increase soak
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Yet if you read it, all it is talking about is Cyberlimbs. Your Cyberlimbs are jacked to the max that is why they get it. You lose boxes because not only are you stressing the hardware you are stressing your body too. It is away for people to throw karma at getting that last augmented point that they normally could not get. Whether the meat side of things also it is up in the air. As written I would say yes ...
You could be right... there are so many holes in this book I now now the Pain that Street Grimore caused (though Ways were cool & they addressed the problem of Upgrading Foci which this book still failed at.) But that would make this Quality Complete Trash!!!! It still doesn't address the Movement or Physical Limit Sinkholes that fully Cybered characters fall into. That last +1 is meaningless when you are using Str & Agi as semi dump stats. If you raise them high enough to have a decent Movement & Physical Limit, then getting Cyberlimbs is dumb. Just raise the Attributes themselves with Ware. It's already ¥72k per limb to get Str 6/Agi 9, Armor 3... ×4 = ¥288k & 4 points of Essence. That's before investing in Reaction & Initiative.... which a Street Sam needs badly. The Essence cost is restricting you to Synaptic Booster which is about 100k a Rating.
Actually i feel that with Chrome Flesh, cyberlimb is very comparable to straight up augmentation, and maybe even stronger for a Street Sam. The reasons are:-
(1) Cheapish essences and nuyen initiave combo that allows your Sam to get decent initiative score without investing too much,
(2) Internal router allows you to use all the wireless goodies without fear of bricking (cyberlimbs have quite a number of them)
(3) Skimmers double your movement rate
(4) Cyberlimb optimization for that 2 extra dice pool + 4 increase physical limit for a particular skill.
(5) Biocompatibility Quality is just icing that allows you to cramp more into Sam (this quality affects cyberlimb Sam more than normal Sam, who usually will go more for bioware)
(6) Fundamentally, cyberlimb is not really much more expensive essence and nuyen wise vs going ware. It is just that most people did not price in the armor benefit vs bone lacing and orthoskin. i.e. 4 full obvious limb [2 armor, 6 str, 6 agi, Optimisation] is 4 essence and 212k nuyen vs used R3 Toner & Augmentation, Aluminium lacing and R3 Orthoskin of 3.25 and 177.75k nuyen. R3 Agi or Str enhancement cost 19.5k for each limb.
Both the qualities cyber singularity seeker (CSS) and redliner are a steal is terms of karma effectiveness.
(1) CSS is effectively equivalent to 45 karma if your starting will power is 3 and 65 karma if your starting willpower is 5.
(2) For redliner, whichever way you read it, it is very strong.
(a) if it adds 4 stats to your meat body, that is equivalent to a priority upgrade for stats (from priority C to B or from B to A), or in terms of augmentation, a rating 2 muscle augmentation (50k nuyen and 2 essence) or a R2 muscle toner and augmentation (126k and 0.8 essence).
(b) If it adds to the cyberlimbs itself, then the cyberlimb can augmented up to at 11 agi and str for a human. A very significant improvement in combat capability. It will also allow you to start with a 8 Agi and Str just via cyberlimb customisation.
(c) The loss of 2 physical condition box is not very meaningful because going cyberlimb allows you to easily stack armor high into the low or mid 20s. Most attacks against you should be doing stun rather than physical damage.
I have created a cyberlimb Sam as an example to illustrate its viability. This is assuming worst case that redliner adds 4 to meat stats. If redliner adds to cyberlimb, you can always go elf, or a sum-to-10 human to rearrange the priority. You should get back a very similar stat arrangement (but with less karma), and a significant increase in combat efficiency of an additional 2 agi and str. it will also allow you to delay some of the cyberlimb upgrades, that you effectively use the nuyen to get better iniative augmentation
Key strengths:-
(1) 19 DP for assault rifle (9 cyberlimb + 8 skills & spec + 2 smartlink). Recoil compensation 9 (2 Ares Alpha + 3 Str + 3 Gas vent + 1 shock pad)
(2) 19 DP unarmed (9 cyberlimb + 8 skills & spec + 2 cyberlimb optimisation). Spurs DV 12, AP -2, Accuracy 10 (6 physical limit, 4 cyberlimb optimisation) [Accuracy 8 if you are using skimmers]
(3) 26 armor (10 cyberlimb + 13 sleeping tiger + 3 line coat) [another 2 more can be added to your cyberlimbs post creation, with nuyen and availability]
(4) High Willpower of 5
(5) Relatively high movement speed 16/32 with skimmers (equivalent to 8 agi)
(6) Decent physical limit of 6
(7) Except Logic at 2, all other stats are 3 or above. No true dump stat that will make GM mad at you
(8 ) Decent initiative score 14 + 2D6.
(9) Except for the +2DP from smartgun link, all wireless capable augmentation can be used without fear of bricking due to internal router
(10) Cyberlimb is cool!
==Notes==
10 Karma to increase logic from 1 to 2
10 Karma to increase Nuyen by 20k
2 Kama to increase palming skill to 1
2 Karma to increase pilot ground craft to 1
11 Karma left to spend on qualities and skills
6.7k Nuyen left for ammo and misc equipment
== Info ==
Movement: 8/16 (16/32 with skimmers)
Human
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 8 (45 kg/30 kg)
Memory: 7
Nuyen: 6700
== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: B - 20 Attributes
Special: E - Mundane
Skills: C - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: A - 450,000¥
== Attributes ==
BOD: 5
AGI: 2 (4) (2 from redliner)
REA: 5 (7)
STR: 1 (3) (2 from redliner)
CHA: 3
INT: 6
LOG: 2
WIL: 5
EDG: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 0.34
Initiative: 14 + 2d6
Physical Damage Track: 9
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 6
Mental: 5
Social: 4
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger [+1] (Must be visible)
Vashon Island: Synergist Business Line Longcoat [+1] (Must be visible)
== Active Skills ==
Automatics : 6 [Assault Rifles]
Con : 1 [Fast Talk]
Etiquette : 1
Gymnastics : 1
Leadership : 1
Negotiation : 1
Palming : 1
Perception : 4 [Visual]
Pilot Ground Craft : 1
Running : 1
Sneaking : 6 [Urban]
Swimming : 1
Unarmed Combat : 6 [Cyber Implants: Spurs]
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Qualities ==
Redliner
Biocompatability (Cyberware)
SINner (Corporate)
== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Synaptic Acceleration (Standard)
Cybereyes Basic System Rating 3 (Alpha)
+Image Link
+Flare Compensation
+Low-Light Vision
+Smartlink
+Thermographic Vision
+Vision Magnification
Datajack (Alpha)
Internal Router (Alpha)
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 9, STR 9) (Left) (Used)
+Armor Rating 3
+Customized Agility Rating 6
+Customized Strength Rating 6
+Cyberlimb Optimization (The Greatest)
+Enhanced Agility Rating 3
+Enhanced Strength Rating 3
+Spurs
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 9, STR 9) (Right) (Used)
+Armor Rating 3
+Customized Agility Rating 6
+Customized Strength Rating 6
+Cyberlimb Optimization (The Greatest)
+Enhanced Agility Rating 3
+Enhanced Strength Rating 3
+Spurs
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 6, STR 6) (Right) (Standard)
+Armor Rating 2
+Customized Agility Rating 6
+Customized Strength Rating 6
+Cyberlimb Optimization (The Greatest)
+Skimmers
+Cyber Holster
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 6, STR 6) (Left) (Standard)
+Armor Rating 2
+Customized Agility Rating 6
+Customized Strength Rating 6
+Cyberlimb Optimization (The Greatest)
+Skimmers
Reaction Enhancers Rating 2 (Alpha)
== Armor ==
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger 13
+Custom Fit
+Newest Model
+Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3
Vashon Island: Synergist Business Line Longcoat3
+Custom Fit (Stack)
+Holster
== Weapons ==
Ares Alpha
+Gas-Vent 3 System
+Shock Pad
+Personalized Grip
+Smartgun System, Internal
Pool: 10 (12) Accuracy: 8 DV: 11P AP: -2 RC: 8
Remington Suppressor
+Gas-Vent 3 System
+Personalized Grip
+Smartgun System, External
+Sound Suppressor
Pool: 10 Accuracy: 9 DV: 7P AP: -1 RC: 5
Spurs
Pool: 10 (12) Accuracy: 6 DV: 12P AP: -2 RC: 2
Spurs
Pool: 10 (12) Accuracy: 6 DV: 12P AP: -2 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 10 Accuracy: 6 DV: 3S AP: - RC: 2
== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6)
== Gear ==
Fake SIN Rating 4
+Fake License (Driver's License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Firearms License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Restricted Cyberware License) Rating 1
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Sensor Array Rating 2
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Your Legs at Availability 14 are Illegal without 2 Restricted Gear Quality which in itself is illegal. I'm working on a Prime Runner Sum to Ten build right now, mainly to avoid the Availability issue that makes yours invalid. Though I'm going the other way with them to shove go much stuff in them it's falling out, you'd be surprised at how fast 86 Capacity fills up. I'll post it once it's finished, I finally got the 'ware figured out or at least figured out that cramming more in is no longer feasible cause those limbs get super expensive super fast.
Steamers full of NeuroStun & an Internal Air Tank might be my favorite part of it I came up with.
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Your Legs at Availability 14 are Illegal without 2 Restricted Gear Quality which in itself is illegal. I'm working on a Prime Runner Sum to Ten build right now, mainly to avoid the Availability issue that makes yours invalid. Though I'm going the other way with them to shove go much stuff in them it's falling out, you'd be surprised at how fast 86 Capacity fills up. I'll post it once it's finished, I finally got the 'ware figured out or at least figured out that cramming more in is no longer feasible cause those limbs get super expensive super fast.
You are right, it is illegal! Did not realise the optimization added +2 availability, and my chummer didnt track the availability properly. Anyway I edited the build above. I added the quality biocompatibility and reduce the grades for both legs to standard from alpha to make it legal again. Also drop the grades for the cyberarms to used from standard. Using the freed up cash to get synaptic acceleration instead of boosted reflex and 2 additional armor for the cyberarms. Dropping them to used grade allow me to pick up the 3rd armor rating. Net change is -5 karma, but gain 1 initiative and 1 defense pool, +2 armor and increase my remaining essence to 0.34 from 0.16. Come to think of it. This is in fact more efficient than the first build. hahahah
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Your Legs at Availability 14 are Illegal without 2 Restricted Gear Quality which in itself is illegal. I'm working on a Prime Runner Sum to Ten build right now, mainly to avoid the Availability issue that makes yours invalid. Though I'm going the other way with them to shove go much stuff in them it's falling out, you'd be surprised at how fast 86 Capacity fills up. I'll post it once it's finished, I finally got the 'ware figured out or at least figured out that cramming more in is no longer feasible cause those limbs get super expensive super fast.
You are right, it is illegal! Did not realise the optimization added +2 availability, and my chummer didnt track the availability properly. Anyway I edited the build above. I added the quality biocompatibility and reduce the grades for both legs to standard from alpha to make it legal again. Also drop the grades for the cyberarms to used from standard. Using the freed up cash to get synaptic acceleration instead of boosted reflex and 2 additional armor for the cyberarms. Dropping them to used grade allow me to pick up the 3rd armor rating. Net change is -5 karma, but gain 1 initiative and 1 defense pool, +2 armor and increase my remaining essence to 0.34 from 0.16. Come to think of it. This is in fact more efficient than the first build. hahahah
Getting closer to my build now... Drop the Legs to used to get Didigrade and you're set. Prime Runner let's you add Bulk Modification for even more gooey goodness. I think the Steamers full of NeuroStun & an Internal Air Tank will be the funniest thing in a while. But Redliner is still trash... imagine Narco & Pharmaceutical Grade Kamikaze! Way better than Redliner... + 6 Boxs for Physical (need some where to offload that Stun Damage), +2 Body, +1 Strength, +2 Willpower, +2d6 Initiative, +2 Physical Limit, & High Pain Tolerance 3. All for the low low cost of an Addiction Threshold 2 or 1 roll every other week against 10 dice if not Addicted or 14 if Addicted (no real reason not to start at Mild for the Karma.) Cyber Singularity is worth it in my opinion & greatly shores up traditionally the Street Sams most well known weakness. Willpower 5(7) or (9) on Kamikaze. Shake off Stunbolts like rain once the Mages counterspelling dice get added on. Still trying to make that Pain Editor fit though (it's a pain that I haven't been able to overcome that last hurdle stopping it from perfection.) I might have to bite the bullet and drop my Rating 4 Hydraulic Jacks, I just really wanna be able to jump off 4 story roofs for fun.
Critiques on what you have so far. Datajack=Waste... get a commlink, you'll get DNI & not waste Essence for it. Internal Router=Waste... you don't have much that gives Wireless bonuses & what you do have you already have a Neural Connection to so activating it is a free action. (A) Reaction Enhancers 2=Waste... (U) Reaction Enhancers 3 is better in every way & about the same cost. Cybereyes=Giant Waste! Get a SmartLink in your eyes... you A. Waste Essence & Nuyen B. Leave your eyes open to bricking to blind you (kinda makes the Internal Router a complete and total Waste) C. Vision Enhancement 3 in Contacts (they have to be Wireless anyways) the rest goes into Glasses for everyday wear & a Ballistic Mask for Runs.
Oh... because it's such a heinous assault upon everyone who has the misfortune that happens to see you, Never Stack Sleeping Tiger with a Synergist Line Coat!!!!! Wearing a Sleeping Tiger is bad enough in Public especially since you aren't an Ork or Troll, but committing a fashion faux paus of that caliber should generate a crowd of villagers with pitchforks & torches to chase you out of town like Frankenstein Monster!!!!! Also... Ballistic Masks are cooler, conceal your identity, & don't ruin the -2 Penalty to Perception Checks from Ruthenium Coating.
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could also take the Adapsin gene therapy for 16 avail 30k for an additional 10% reduction to essence costs (its like having that o body type from 4th edition augmentation) (actually no that gives you delta grade essence cost from standard grade augmentations + biocompatability thats like gamma level grade)
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Sadly you'd need to take at creation or it doesn't.
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could also take the Adapsin gene therapy for 16 avail 30k for an additional 10% reduction to essence costs (its like having that o body type from 4th edition augmentation) (actually no that gives you delta grade essence cost from standard grade augmentations + biocompatability thats like gamma level grade)
It's not even close to Type O System, that's another 10 Karma Quality & ¥30k for a .3ish amount of Essence. Type O System would get you full points of Essence Reduction & coupled with the way Essence holes worked you could easily get 10 points of 'ware into a character out of Chargen. (I once got over 11 points in a Thought Exercise Character but it wasn't as good as my 10 essence build.)
I've tried everything to shoehorn more into this cyberlimb character but Adapsin didn't really cut it & I really want a Pain Editor to fit. Can't do both. It has it's place but I'm having a hard time justifying it even in a +6 essence in cyber alone character.
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Your Legs at Availability 14 are Illegal without 2 Restricted Gear Quality which in itself is illegal. I'm working on a Prime Runner Sum to Ten build right now, mainly to avoid the Availability issue that makes yours invalid. Though I'm going the other way with them to shove go much stuff in them it's falling out, you'd be surprised at how fast 86 Capacity fills up. I'll post it once it's finished, I finally got the 'ware figured out or at least figured out that cramming more in is no longer feasible cause those limbs get super expensive super fast.
You are right, it is illegal! Did not realise the optimization added +2 availability, and my chummer didnt track the availability properly. Anyway I edited the build above. I added the quality biocompatibility and reduce the grades for both legs to standard from alpha to make it legal again. Also drop the grades for the cyberarms to used from standard. Using the freed up cash to get synaptic acceleration instead of boosted reflex and 2 additional armor for the cyberarms. Dropping them to used grade allow me to pick up the 3rd armor rating. Net change is -5 karma, but gain 1 initiative and 1 defense pool, +2 armor and increase my remaining essence to 0.34 from 0.16. Come to think of it. This is in fact more efficient than the first build. hahahah
Getting closer to my build now... Drop the Legs to used to get Didigrade and you're set. Prime Runner let's you add Bulk Modification for even more gooey goodness. I think the Steamers full of NeuroStun & an Internal Air Tank will be the funniest thing in a while. But Redliner is still trash... imagine Narco & Pharmaceutical Grade Kamikaze! Way better than Redliner... + 6 Boxs for Physical (need some where to offload that Stun Damage), +2 Body, +1 Strength, +2 Willpower, +2d6 Initiative, +2 Physical Limit, & High Pain Tolerance 3. All for the low low cost of an Addiction Threshold 2 or 1 roll every other week against 10 dice if not Addicted or 14 if Addicted (no real reason not to start at Mild for the Karma.) Cyber Singularity is worth it in my opinion & greatly shores up traditionally the Street Sams most well known weakness. Willpower 5(7) or (9) on Kamikaze. Shake off Stunbolts like rain once the Mages counterspelling dice get added on. Still trying to make that Pain Editor fit though (it's a pain that I haven't been able to overcome that last hurdle stopping it from perfection.) I might have to bite the bullet and drop my Rating 4 Hydraulic Jacks, I just really wanna be able to jump off 4 story roofs for fun.
Critiques on what you have so far. Datajack=Waste... get a commlink, you'll get DNI & not waste Essence for it. Internal Router=Waste... you don't have much that gives Wireless bonuses & what you do have you already have a Neural Connection to so activating it is a free action. (A) Reaction Enhancers 2=Waste... (U) Reaction Enhancers 3 is better in every way & about the same cost. Cybereyes=Giant Waste! Get a SmartLink in your eyes... you A. Waste Essence & Nuyen B. Leave your eyes open to bricking to blind you (kinda makes the Internal Router a complete and total Waste) C. Vision Enhancement 3 in Contacts (they have to be Wireless anyways) the rest goes into Glasses for everyday wear & a Ballistic Mask for Runs.
Oh... because it's such a heinous assault upon everyone who has the misfortune that happens to see you, Never Stack Sleeping Tiger with a Synergist Line Coat!!!!! Wearing a Sleeping Tiger is bad enough in Public especially since you aren't an Ork or Troll, but committing a fashion faux paus of that caliber should generate a crowd of villagers with pitchforks & torches to chase you out of town like Frankenstein Monster!!!!! Also... Ballistic Masks are cooler, conceal your identity, & don't ruin the -2 Penalty to Perception Checks from Ruthenium Coating.
i dont mean to play the char. its just a showcase that cyberlimbs and redliner is no longer as weak as quite a few people see them. As for my augmentation choices:-
1) i think redliner is a steal. but its just my opinion and because i prefer certainty in my char. If you prefer drugs as long term measure, you can surely definitely go that way.
2) datajack is just cool and gives you DNI for a cheap cost. Plus you get a free noise reduction. Throw in a cyberear with 3 antennaes with the S-n-M combo with a Evo Himitsu and you can get 15 DP to avoid matrix perception. A commlink doesnt give DNI. You'll need a trode for that DNI (in a fight, someone can pull your trodes off, or at least at my table you can)
3) Internal router is perhaps the most important thing for me as a Sam. It gives you access to wireless bonus for your cyber holster and skimmers, and most of the smartlink function (except the +2DP), without actually ever needing to turn on wireless. Save you lots of grief from bricking. When you add in a vision enhancement for your cybereyes, the internal router will help you get the +2DP for your perception test.. Realistically speaking, you can slave your devices to your decker. But if the decker is actually using a deck, it will at most be device rating 3 and will only able to take 9 devices as slaves. I dont think he/she will appreciate you asking him/her to protect 5 or 6 of your devices. For me shadowrun may be about teamwork, but it is also trying to be as self sufficient as possible.
4) Reaction enhancer 3. If you have the essence, why not. Just that when i was playing around with the build, it takes too much essence because you have to buy used grade for a R3. With biocompatibility, a R2 alpha is 0.42 essence. R3 used is 0.99 essence. A difference of 0.57 essence.
5) You can go visual equipment route. Personally i prefer cybereyes so that you dont have to wear contacts (wireless must always be on), glasses (can fall off), googles (conspicuous). With internal router, all wireless bonus is accessible except the +2DP from smartlink.
6) For the sleeping tiger and synergist line coat combo, other than being really munchkin, i dont see why its a fashion faux pax? Given that both are custom fit equipment (which by definition is a perfect fit which doesnt even allow for minute changes), it should fit your char perfectly without looking out of place. That said, i really have no idea what a sleeping tiger should look like given the lack of description. I havent seen any description that only orks and trolls wears it.
in any case, the build is just an example. It is by no means optimized. Please feel free to use or change whatever you like. I am sure you can make a more optimized char than the example above
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1. If you think spending Karma for a bonus is better than taking Drug & .2 essence for 16k that does a whole lot more. Ok.... confusing since it's as inferior as a Model T to a Ferrari.
2. Implanted Commlinks gives DNI & come with a free Sim Module.
3. How you are getting your gun out of a Cyber holster in your leg while wearing pants is beyond me. But even beyond that your gun needs to be talking to your eyes... so your Internal Router is meaningless for the +2 DP. Your Cybereyes are brickable any time you use your smartgun... if you strung your cable from your Datajack directly to your gun you'd still get some bonuses... like ejecting a clip as a free action. You can get a + 3 to Visual Perception with contacts for cheaper... again highly inferior option. You also have a Neural Interface with all your Cyberlimbs so you can turn on & off wireless with a free action. I'm throwing 16 Dice for Defense (25 for full matrix defense) so I care absolutely zero about a Deckers inferior dice pool protection. I'll be on the Public Grid & the Decker will be Running Silent, so that's a -4 die pool for him. I actually want him to attack me at that point. Smash him for bothering me... I just realized how truly punishing I could be to a Decker in writing this. To the point I could see not even hiding just to hammer him by Defending. The Tanking ability across Physical & Matrix is bar none... even the Astral isn't easy.
4. It's definitely worth it for the Initiative & even more important Defense Die
5. Glasses/Ballistic Mask is way better in that it's cheaper & who cares if ¥1200 contacts get bricked really... and again I'm throwing 16 or 25 dice since I avoided the trash quality Redliner.
6. It's Orkxplotation with pvc & chain mesh meant for Orks & Trolls... even the other Orks & Trolls look down on the ones who wear it. It's very tacky & gaudy outfit coupled with middle manager overcoat. It's a complete eyesore & even worse when coupled together. You also don't get the true benefits of the Ruthenium Coating hiding it under another coat.
I was already doing so... I was simply pointing out areas that you were wasting Chargen on. The Datajack noise reduction is ok but not really game changing... I'm working with hundreds of percent trying to make everything fit, so it's not usable to me. I mean you can have a Universal Port on your arm to plug a Universal Cable into your Commlink if it's that important. Your point was that Redliner was a good quality... I was outlining how worthless it is and how it's gimping your character from taking something good like Cyber Singularity Seeker. And also critiquing some other build choices that aren't really doing anything for you.
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1. If you think spending Karma for a bonus is better than taking Drug & .2 essence for 16k that does a whole lot more. Ok.... confusing since it's as inferior as a Model T to a Ferrari.
2. Implanted Commlinks gives DNI & come with a free Sim Module.
3. How you are getting your gun out of a Cyber holster in your leg while wearing pants is beyond me. But even beyond that your gun needs to be talking to your eyes... so your Internal Router is meaningless for the +2 DP. Your Cybereyes are brickable any time you use your smartgun... if you strung your cable from your Datajack directly to your gun you'd still get some bonuses... like ejecting a clip as a free action. You can get a + 3 to Visual Perception with contacts for cheaper... again highly inferior option. You also have a Neural Interface with all your Cyberlimbs so you can turn on & off wireless with a free action. I'm throwing 16 Dice for Defense (25 for full matrix defense) so I care absolutely zero about a Deckers inferior dice pool protection. I'll be on the Public Grid & the Decker will be Running Silent, so that's a -4 die pool for him. I actually want him to attack me at that point. Smash him for bothering me... I just realized how truly punishing I could be to a Decker in writing this. To the point I could see not even hiding just to hammer him by Defending. The Tanking ability across Physical & Matrix is bar none... even the Astral isn't easy.
4. It's definitely worth it for the Initiative & even more important Defense Die
5. Glasses/Ballistic Mask is way better in that it's cheaper & who cares if ¥1200 contacts get bricked really... and again I'm throwing 16 or 25 dice since I avoided the trash quality Redliner.
6. It's Orkxplotation with pvc & chain mesh meant for Orks & Trolls... even the other Orks & Trolls look down on the ones who wear it. It's very tacky & gaudy outfit coupled with middle manager overcoat. It's a complete eyesore & even worse when coupled together. You also don't get the true benefits of the Ruthenium Coating hiding it under another coat.
I was already doing so... I was simply pointing out areas that you were wasting Chargen on. The Datajack noise reduction is ok but not really game changing... I'm working with hundreds of percent trying to make everything fit, so it's not usable to me. I mean you can have a Universal Port on your arm to plug a Universal Cable into your Commlink if it's that important. Your point was that Redliner was a good quality... I was outlining how worthless it is and how it's gimping your character from taking something good like Cyber Singularity Seeker. And also critiquing some other build choices that aren't really doing anything for you.
1. Well i just personally prefer certainty vs trusting to pass an addiction roll week after week even if the odds are with me. In game time for runs at my table can last for a few hours, so i rather my char not pop a kamikaze then crash out 20 min later. But of course this is due to my table experience, so i am bias.
3. I am thinking a slit on the side of the pants. holster can slide in and out via that slit. i am going the universal cable to the gun route to get the smartlink effect, not via wireless. I guess if your matrix defense is that high, i can understand why internal router is trash for you. My GM will never allow S-n-M program, so my decker will definitely have a better defense pool than me. Thats why internal router is very important for me.
4. Sure. my build just didnt have the essence for it is all.
5. In any case, redliner may or may not be adding +4 to your meat body, it may actually be adding to your cyberlimb. so may have to wait for the errata.
6. Is that how it looks? where did you find that description? Can you point me to it? If thats how it looks i certainly will be switching the outfit for the actual char i am playing.
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Sleeping Tiger hasn't been described this time around, but this may help:
(http://s17.postimg.org/h48f8ien3/Sleeping_Tiger.jpg)
Seeing as TPTB decided to not include anything in R&G on what it looks like, this is the most recent description we have. Some orks and trolls like it, but you're more likely to meet them inside a corporate enclave, arcology, or gated neighbourhood.
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Sleeping Tiger hasn't been described this time around, but this may help:
(http://s17.postimg.org/h48f8ien3/Sleeping_Tiger.jpg)
Seeing as TPTB decided to not include anything in R&G on what it looks like, this is the most recent description we have. Some orks and trolls like it, but you're more likely to meet them inside a corporate enclave, arcology, or gated neighbourhood.
Hahaha, looks like my elf girl char will be wearing a zoe executive from now on. hahahah
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1. Rolling 14 dice against at most a (2)... hovering around 2% to fail that before spending an Edge to reroll, a (1) is even less. I guess I'm just a gambling man with those odds. Course I have a 1% of only getting 2 passes in a Combat Turn & 24% to get 4 passes per Combat Turn on Initiative.
3. Nothing to do with Smoke & Mirrors... that's a 9 Willpower & 7 Firewall. Full Matrix Defense adds Willpower again for a total of 25 dice, being on the public grid cause a -2 dice Penalty & if he's running silent he'll take another -2 Penalty as well, for a -4 before Noise Penalties against my 16 or 25 DP. Smoke & Mirrors only helps Sleaze which is what you would be using to Hide from a Decker. I'm not Hiding (no Sleaze Attribute) just being a mental giant.
***cutting holes in your pants, even less stylish and who wants to do this if they can't look cool while they do it? Take the Spur out of your left arm and put the Cyber holster there. Then you can draw it with your right hand and have your spur there for melee. (I'm going monowhip in a Fingertip Compartment cause I love MonoWhips.... probably something to do with seeing Johnny Mnemonic 2 months before I ever played my first shadowrun game, and then there one was!)***
4. Hence why I was pointing out all the wasted essence.
5. Could be... makes a Quality I see as a good concept but failed execution into just a flat out failure. I hope that isn't the case.
6. Sterling got this one before I could quote 4th edition. Yeah Run & Gun was definitely not amazing and that is part of it. Cause everyone gets it because no one knows what it looks like. It's the equivalent of going to a black tie affair in FUBU with your pants sagging down to your knees. Nobody is going to say anything to your face about but everyone will be judging you and you sure won't be blending into High Society that considering the price tag you'd believe you would be.
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can you get BTH: Better Than Human 4.5 16R 275,000 used?
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can you get BTH: Better Than Human 4.5 16R 275,000 used?
No. There are no grades... it's a one slot package. I was hoping that theywould rework the Cybersuites for Chromed Flesh. They are fine as a Video Game mod... but for the RPG they are just not enough. BTH if you can Customize the Limbs could be work it. Though check the Character Creation forum later... I'll post my build that blows BTH out the water if you are looking to play a character like that.
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1. Rolling 14 dice against at most a (2)... hovering around 2% to fail that before spending an Edge to reroll, a (1) is even less. I guess I'm just a gambling man with those odds. Course I have a 1% of only getting 2 passes in a Combat Turn & 24% to get 4 passes per Combat Turn on Initiative.
3. Nothing to do with Smoke & Mirrors... that's a 9 Willpower & 7 Firewall. Full Matrix Defense adds Willpower again for a total of 25 dice, being on the public grid cause a -2 dice Penalty & if he's running silent he'll take another -2 Penalty as well, for a -4 before Noise Penalties against my 16 or 25 DP. Smoke & Mirrors only helps Sleaze which is what you would be using to Hide from a Decker. I'm not Hiding (no Sleaze Attribute) just being a mental giant.
***cutting holes in your pants, even less stylish and who wants to do this if they can't look cool while they do it? Take the Spur out of your left arm and put the Cyber holster there. Then you can draw it with your right hand and have your spur there for melee. (I'm going monowhip in a Fingertip Compartment cause I love MonoWhips.... probably something to do with seeing Johnny Mnemonic 2 months before I ever played my first shadowrun game, and then there one was!)***
4. Hence why I was pointing out all the wasted essence.
5. Could be... makes a Quality I see as a good concept but failed execution into just a flat out failure. I hope that isn't the case.
6. Sterling got this one before I could quote 4th edition. Yeah Run & Gun was definitely not amazing and that is part of it. Cause everyone gets it because no one knows what it looks like. It's the equivalent of going to a black tie affair in FUBU with your pants sagging down to your knees. Nobody is going to say anything to your face about but everyone will be judging you and you sure won't be blending into High Society that considering the price tag you'd believe you would be.
Interesting. I can see why now u advocate css vs redliner. Your build synergise so well via an extremely high willpower. Never even struck me that brute power matrix defense is enough to protect my gear. Guess this is really one option i have never explored.
3. A hole, yes. But not cut a hole on the side of the pants where people can see your legs. Thats too uncool. Imagine your working pants inner pocket sleave has a big hole in it. The kind that whatever you put inside the pocket will fall to ground. Imagine now the inner pocket sleave and pocket slit are elastic and stretchable. When the holster open ala robocop style. It push out perpendicular to ur leg. The normal pants becomes stretched tout like when u stuff alot of stuff in your working pants in real life. Due to the stretch, the elastic slit will also be stretch open and creates a larger pocket hole. The gun then pops out diagonally backwards out of the slit into the open. When the holster is not open. The pants will look exactly normal with a pocket slit. At least this is how i imagine it works
On the subject of imaginary items. Your question about how the sam is directly connect to the smartgun without going wireless has got me thinking. You are right. It wouldnt make much sense that i have to pull the gun out of the holster then plug a wire in. In game, it should take an extra action so its not desirable.
Hence I am now thinking of creating a peusdo diy skinlink so that i dont have to plug a cable to the gun just to access most of the smartlink function.
Step 1. Install the induction receiver module (datatrail pg 65) into your cyberarm. You are now considered directly connected to a device by touching the datacable connected to it.
Step 2. Plug a datacable into the universal port of the smartlink gun. Run and tape the cable to where your palm will hold the gun handle. Or the front of the trigger will also work (though this means you will need to place your fingers on the trigger all the time to become directly connected.
Step 3. (Optional). Cut data cable to desired length. Strip the rubber insulator off the wire. Reinstall the wires into the rubber grip of your gun so that it is insulated. It should be in the same area as where your palm touches the grip. For in games rules. This is probably just a maybe more expensive personalised grip.
Viola! Everytime you grip the gun. You are considered directly connected. Say goodbye to ugly wires and up your coolness by a factor of 10.
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With regards to Redliner it sounds like the intended reading is to affect both cyberlimbs and your regular stats. I just asked for clarification if that was meant, but with the initial reply in the Errata Thread it sounds like it's supposed to be both.
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With regards to Redliner it sounds like the intended reading is to affect both cyberlimbs and your regular stats. I just asked for clarification if that was meant, but with the initial reply in the Errata Thread it sounds like it's supposed to be both.
Lolx. Thats op. So much improvement for just 10 karma.
Makes my example go 21dp range and melee with a 14dv spurs.
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With regards to Redliner it sounds like the intended reading is to affect both cyberlimbs and your regular stats. I just asked for clarification if that was meant, but with the initial reply in the Errata Thread it sounds like it's supposed to be both.
Lolx. Thats op. So much improvement for just 10 karma.
Makes my example go 21dp range and melee with a 14dv spurs.
Ummmm.... Monofilament Whip is still beating you against any kind of real opposition. The AP value is so much better that it cancels out the Soak Test & it has Reach 2 so it's cancelling 2 more Defense Dice as well. So your hyper specialized built for that one purpose character is doing about the same as a weapon that has existed in the game for decades. My playing Shadowrun the very first time about 2 months after watching Johnny Mnemonic back in 95 is one of the reasons I immediately fell in love with the game. Been using Monofilament Whips since 2nd, had them as Weapon Foci for Adepts as well as any high agility street sam, or for a 1 Cyberarm Decker. Just about every role there is to play I've used a Monofilament Whip for their Melee Weapon. The clarification that Redliner affecting both Natural & Cyberlimb Attributes has swung me from thinking Redliner was total trash to it being a decent quality (still love Cyber Singularity Seeker though.) It still is far from game breaking since the +4 Augmented Bonus Maximum is still in effect.
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Big drawback of monowhip is that it is Forbidden...
...you know....much like specialized sniper rifles, non-commercial explosives, hand grenades, grenade launchers and missile launchers....(!)
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... and cyber spurs ;D
At least a monowhip can be concealed easily.
@Bulshock
How exactly should two cyberarms with deactivated security protocols give more strength to your legs so you can run faster?
I think it's pretty obvious that only the cyberlimbs benefit from increased strength.
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... and cyber spurs ;D
At least a monowhip can be concealed easily.
@Bulshock
How exactly should two cyberarms with deactivated security protocols give more strength to your legs so you can run faster?
I think it's pretty obvious that only the cyberlimbs benefit from increased strength.
Stole my response to Xenon... :P
In the Errata thread the designer said it was supposed to affect both. Makes it a decent quality for 4 limb/Liminal Body users... otherwise it's just trash.
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I would second the request on a clarification of Redliner affecting the character's stats, or the character's cyberlimbs. As it reads now, it seems like an expensive chunk of karma for a fairly minimal gain.
Oh dear. Didn't see that. The intent is It should affect your overall attributes (or natural attribute, if you want to call it that), NOT only the limb attributes.
Quoted the spot here. If you want to read the original it's on pg. 7 of the Errata Thread.
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Yeah... it affecting Natural Attributes to shore up Movement & Physical Limit was a trash quality. It only effecting cyberlimbs not only manages to be worse but easily one of the worst qualities in the game. Affecting both makes it a decent quality for a niche character.
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Yeah... it affecting Natural Attributes to shore up Movement & Physical Limit was a trash quality. It only effecting cyberlimbs not only manages to be worse but easily one of the worst qualities in the game. Affecting both makes it a decent quality for a niche character.
Does the max aug of +4 applies to cyberlimbs? i thought it only applies to ware augmentation to your natural stats.
Assume drugs are not available in your game due to gm disapproval. Would redliner be better in your opinion? If not, can you perhaps build us a sam with 20dp range and melee and 11DV punch (assume no forbidden item), high soak dice in the 20+ and no other stats lower than 2.
To be honest, In terms of soaking damage, monowhip 12dv -8AP should cause the same damage as 14dv -2AP. The 2dp from reach is really mitigated by the fact that exotic weapon skills does not have specialization, which you can get from the unarmed skill. Unless your game is full of rating 5 and 6 elite forces, its pretty much the same.
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Not sure. I could see it bypassing that as cyberlimbs already use their own rules. But at the same time I could also see it not bypassing it for balance purposes.
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Does the max aug of +4 applies to cyberlimbs?
No, [at least in in core] it is rules legal to have a natural agility of 1 and a cybernetic right arm with agility 3, customized by 3 to your metatype maximum of 6 and from there enhanced another 3 points for a total of 9 (which is +8 over your natural attribute rating in this example).
This is part why cyberlimbs in SR5 actually benefit deckers more than they benefit street samurai (which might be the original iconic archetype for cyberlimbs).
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Actually... depending on how your group rules things for full body replacement, they can be quite good for a street sammy. However you'd be looking being a fully body replacement. And if your group doesn't do some house rules on it you'll be slow moving and low phys limit. Because right now by RAW Cyberlegs don't change your base movement speed at all without something installed in them (Liminal Body, Digitigrade, Skates, Skimmers). I've seen suggestions that if you have a Torso replacement with full arms and legs, that you should be able to use your average body strength (Arms, Legs, Head, Torso) to calculate Phys Limit. And almost everyone I've talked to has said that ruling that Cyberlegs agility is used for moving with them.
As for the max aug of +4... I think they were asking about +4 to the limb (i.e. Enhancement 3 plus Redliner +2 for four limbs would be 5 and if that would be legal or if it would max at +4).
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And if your group doesn't do some house rules on it you'll be slow moving and low phys limit.
You need house rules for that to specifically be the case, too. "When a particular limb is used for a test" doesn't cover non-test uses of attributes, but "in any other case" should.
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The problem comes with the Test wording. It's quite possible, probable even, it's supposed to be intended that legs do work for base movement speed, but as it's written it doesn't. Technically by the wording you wouldn't use the Strength in your cyberlimbs for Recoil, and the only reason you would use it for Damage is that it's part of a test (limb was used for the test so you use it's attributes sort of thing). Feels very much like it wasn't intended to be that way, at least to me.
Actually, I just re-read the section on cyberlimbs. The copy I have doesn't seem to say that they can't count for Phys Limit, only that you use the Attributes of the Limb for tests with that Limb or the average for tests that use more then one. And the section on Enhancements to them specifically uses two +3 Strength Enhancements as something you can't do, not because it would be more then +4, but because it's two Enhancement upgrades to the same stat. I am now more confused then I was before, because by this reading of it, using the Cyberlimb Attributes for Phys Limit with tests that use that limb seems to be RAW. Or I'm really out of it.
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Totally agreed. I always feel the cyberlimbs ruling were a tad bit too ambiguous and often require houseruling to make senses.
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Does the max aug of +4 applies to cyberlimbs?
No, [at least in in core] it is rules legal to have a natural agility of 1 and a cybernetic right arm with agility 3, customized by 3 to your metatype maximum of 6 and from there enhanced another 3 points for a total of 9 (which is +8 over your natural attribute rating in this example).
This is part why cyberlimbs in SR5 actually benefit deckers more than they benefit street samurai (which might be the original iconic archetype for cyberlimbs).
Yes Cyberlimbs are different from Natural Attributes so you can have Cyberlimbs more than 4 points higher than Natural Attributes. The +4 maximum should be applied to the Cyberlimbs Maximum Attribute Enhancement as well. I'll go point that out in the Errata thread where we are clarifying what the Quality means since it wasn't explicitly explained the first time.
Edit: found it...post from the freelancer.
Also: Is the bonus from Redliner an Augmentation Bonus, or just an "Enhancement"?
I don't want to open by books, so are you asking if it counts towards/can be limited by the Augmented Maximum Attributes? If so, yes, it can cap. You cannot go over the Augmented Maximums.
Totally agreed. I always feel the cyberlimbs ruling were a tad bit too ambiguous and often require houseruling to make senses.
2 Legs could qualify for counting for Movement & a Torso/4 Limbs could be reasonably use Physical Limit as Houserules. But considering what Redliner is intended to do means that it is clear that Movement & Physical Limit isn't supposed to be affected by Cyberlimbs. Giving the bonus to Str/Agi for 4 full limbs really only helps Movement & Physical Limit.
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Giving the bonus to Str/Agi for 4 full limbs really only helps Movement & Physical Limit.
And averaging, when using 4 limbs + natural torso.
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Giving the bonus to Str/Agi for 4 full limbs really only helps Movement & Physical Limit.
And averaging, when using 4 limbs + natural torso.
For what... Lifting?
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problem is cyberlimbs averaging has never been addressed even in past editions
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problem is cyberlimbs averaging has never been addressed even in past editions
Cause you rarely average... you generally use the lowest stat involved.
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no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc
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problem is cyberlimbs averaging has never been addressed even in past editions
thats not True
Averaging has been in SR4a at least.
Cause you rarely average... you generally use the lowest stat involved.
only If You play Lasertag-Chess (Big Bang Theory) or soemthing similar difficult. For standard Action (like Unarmed Combat) you average between all Involved Limbs (I include the Torso too ;) )
with an average Dance
Medicineman
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Giving the bonus to Str/Agi for 4 full limbs really only helps Movement & Physical Limit.
And averaging, when using 4 limbs + natural torso.
For what... Lifting?
I'm sure you can come up with more full body physical activities than that.
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Technically, if you want to be realistic, unless your physical activity is specifically isolating a muscle group, you will always include your core (torso) in what you do.
Since it is not spelled out otherwise, I would use the average of arm/arm/leg/leg/torso for Physical Limit. It makes no sense to me that someone with 4 cyberlimbs but a meat body wouldn't get some benefit from said limbs (yet still be hindered by his 'meat' torso).
As I think about it, I think the wording is ambiguous on purpose. It allows enough room for individual interpretation of rules while still providing enough of a baseline to go by.
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...Cyberlegs don't change your base movement speed at all
It feel strange that your base movement is not calculated from the average agility of all limbs involved. Have this been clarified...?
It is clear that when you use a particular limb for a test you use the rating of that limb, but in all other cases (when you for example is not taking a test) you use the average value of all limbs involved in the task (they don't use the key word test here which might or might not be intended).
If all other cases include movement or not depend on if movement can be considered a task or not.
Sprinting is a skill test so at least this qualify as a task no matter how you read it.
- When you take a sprint test you use the average strength value of all limbs involved in the task.
As for the max aug of +4... I think they were asking about +4 to the limb (i.e. Enhancement 3 plus Redliner +2 for four limbs would be 5 and if that would be legal or if it would max at +4).
Cyberlimbs are intended to have attribute values of their own, independent from your natural rating. Without house rules in place you can customize cyberlimbs up all the way up to your metatype maximum value no matter what your current natural rating is. If your natural rating is low then your cyberlimbs can be customized to break the aug +4 limit even before you add enhancements.
Since it is not spelled out otherwise, I would use the average of arm/arm/leg/leg/torso for Physical Limit.
It have been clarified that cyberlimbs does not alter your Physical Limit (in any direction).
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no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc
What Tests are confusing you about which Limb Stats to use..?
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no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc
What Tests are confusing you about which Limb Stats to use..?
Running shooting a gun lifting jumping throwing a punch (only thing for sure seems to be lockpicking) theres never been an official ruling on what you average do you just use the limbs stats or average or the lowest etc
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no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc
What Tests are confusing you about which Limb Stats to use..?
Running shooting a gun lifting jumping throwing a punch (only thing for sure seems to be lockpicking) theres never been an official ruling on what you average do you just use the limbs stats or average or the lowest etc
You use arms for shooting, legs for jumping, arm for punching... Lifting seems to be the only thing that you'd probably need to average for since no matter how strong the Limbs are the sack in the middle is the weak point. Add in a cybertorso and you would go back to using Cyberlimb stats. Hence my confusion on what was confusing you. I've been pretty harsh about the severe lack of Crunch that's being overwhelmed by Fluff in this edition (and I fucking HATE CFD!!!! Which doesn't make it better) but even I wouldn't be calling for fully articulated tables for what effects what. I don't mind making some common sense calls on how the Rules are applied, I just want the Rules to be concise & non-contradictory.
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ya but if Im just using a machine pistol and I have maxed out cyber arm do I just use that one? what if it was an SMG?
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Xenon, what I meant was +5 to the Cyberlimb. It's never stated if the Cyberlimb has it's own Augmented Maximum, which is where I was talking about. Where has it been clarified that they don't affect Physical Limit? Is it in an Errata document? I know I have heard this before, and could of sworn I had seen it, but I can't seem to find it either in my updated PDF of the Core book or in the Errata PDF I have for it.
Rooks, if you are using it one handed, with how the rules are written, I would say yes. However I do know that I would use average Strength for the Recoil comp for the test as that can easily go through much more of your body, plus legs for stabilization.
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ya but if Im just using a machine pistol and I have maxed out cyber arm do I just use that one? what if it was an SMG?
1 handed weapons use 1 cyberarm... Machine Pistols or Ingram Smartgun. 2 handed weapons use 2 cyberarms (or weakest limb)... submachine guns like Ares Sigma-3 & Assault Rifles.
Xenon, what I meant was +5 to the Cyberlimb. It's never stated if the Cyberlimb has it's own Augmented Maximum, which is where I was talking about. Where has it been clarified that they don't affect Physical Limit? Is it in an Errata document? I know I have heard this before, and could of sworn I had seen it, but I can't seem to find it either in my updated PDF of the Core book or in the Errata PDF I have for it.
I posted the quote from the designer on the previous page. You can check the Chromed Flesh Errata thread to verify it yourself.
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That still doesn't state if Cyberlimbs have their own augmented maximum. That quote seems to imply that the person responding to you was trying to say a Cyberlimb shouldn't be able to go above your natural attribute +4 (i.e. no strength 2 person with a limb with strength 9). It's worded very ambiguously. If it's just talking about Redliner being an Augmentation bonus that's fine, but no where does that quote state anything about Cyberlimbs having an Augmented Maximum, or if the Enhancement bonuses to Strength and Agility fall under that.
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That still doesn't state if Cyberlimbs have their own augmented maximum. That quote seems to imply that the person responding to you was trying to say a Cyberlimb shouldn't be able to go above your natural attribute +4 (i.e. no strength 2 person with a limb with strength 9). It's worded very ambiguously. If it's just talking about Redliner being an Augmentation bonus that's fine, but no where does that quote state anything about Cyberlimbs having an Augmented Maximum, or if the Enhancement bonuses to Strength and Agility fall under that.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS!!!!! Since Redliner is the only possible way to get a +5 Enhancement on Cyberlimbs (only way to even get a +4 Bonus as well) & the designer explicitly stated that they must still abide by the +4 Augmented Maximum Limit... what other way can you read it? Augmented Maximum works differently in SR5 than SR4... Cyberlimbs are not beholden to you natural stats regardless, only Racial Maximums. So a Human using Redliner could get their Cyberlimbs Agility/Strength up to a Maximum of 10... 6 +4. At zero point zero times with what the designer said could you ever get to 11. A Gnome or Elf could get to Agility 11 but that's because their Racial Maximum is 7... 7+4=11.
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i guess maybe redliner is meant more to help with synthetic cyberlimb, which runs more into capacity problem frequently. Still, Agi 10 is nothing to sneeze at.
Does the +4 applies to the racial maximum? or what the cyberlimb is customised with? i.e. if your cyberlimb is customised with 6 agi, it can go up to 10. but if your cyberlimb is customised with agi 5, can it still go to 10 using redliners & enhancement +5?
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i guess maybe redliner is meant more to help with synthetic cyberlimb, which runs more into capacity problem frequently. Still, Agi 10 is nothing to sneeze at.
Does the +4 applies to the racial maximum? or what the cyberlimb is customised with? i.e. if your cyberlimb is customised with 6 agi, it can go up to 10. but if your cyberlimb is customised with agi 5, can it still go to 10 using redliners & enhancement +5?
It abides by the +4 Augmented Maximum Limit! That means you can never have an Enhancement Bonus greater than +4... if your Cyberlimb is only Customized to Agility 5, than you can only get to Agility 9. A Cyberlimb is limited to the same Racial Maximum as the person who has the Cyberlimb. If you choose not to customize up to that limit than you are still restricted to +4 by Augmented Maximum Limit. It takes Redliner to even get a +4, since +3 is the highest Enhancement Bonus available for Cyberlimbs from Augmentation.