Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Lighthouse on <07-15-15/2303:05>
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Can you mindprobe someone who's unconscious and will they remember it when they wake up? What if you Laes them?
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Laes/Lael is going to prevent remembering it regardless of consciousness. If they're unconscious that's a tough call. I'd be inclined to let them but the memory is much more abstract and dreamlike than normal since they're not conscious. Your brain is still turned on when you're unconscious after all.
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Using Mindprobe on someone concious, and then using that drug would give you the results I believe you are looking for. You could always render them unconscious before administering the drug, preventing them from rememberin the spell, you, or you knocking them out.
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I'd argue you can't mindprobe an unconscious person (I don't have the rules text in front of me) the same way you can't probe a computer without turning it on.
But Laes will definitively help you to conceal the probe.
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[...] the same way you can't probe a computer without turning it on.
Your brain is off while sleeping? Interesting idea ;D
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what if you are jacked into the matrix jumped into a drone or astral projecting?
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Sleeping =/= Unconscious
(Ok, that's not entirely true, because sleeping has different phases and... ah, forget it, yes your brain is not working as it is when you are awake.)
When you are astraly projecting you can indeed not be targeted by a mindprobe unless they catch up with your astral body.
VR would work, but your target would likewise be aware that it is being probed.
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If you get enough hits on a mindprobe you can get into someone's unconcsious though.
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Subconscious not unconscious ;D
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There is actually debate about whether that is an appropriate naming in some circles today, as it would imply it's worth less or something.
Yes, that sort of means there's equality lobbyists for brain functions. :P
So he's not necessarily wrong in what he meant.
As for the topic at hand, I think a mindprobe against a dreaming person would be ... different. I'm not sure how.
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As for the topic at hand, I think a mindprobe against a dreaming person would be ... different. I'm not sure how.
I agree, otherwise SOP for any mind mage would be knock out the guy first then probe them.
Which almost never seems to happen, so there may well be a reasoning behind it, like dream state is too jumbled or erratic to sift through.
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I would say you wake up.
Mind probe makes you aware of it.
If you can't wake up because you are unconscious, your brain is also not functional enough to be probed.
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I would say you wake up.
Mind probe makes you aware of it.
If you can't wake up because you are unconscious, your brain is also not functional enough to be probed.
There has to be a way how to probe victim in a coma ;)
So I would say: You can do it, but the subject will remember you doing it as if it were awake.
Why: Because magic.
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I would say you wake up.
Mind probe makes you aware of it.
If you can't wake up because you are unconscious, your brain is also not functional enough to be probed.
There has to be a way how to probe victim in a coma ;)
So I would say: You can do it, but the subject will remember you doing it as if it were awake.
Why: Because magic.
And yet there is not one piece of fluff I am aware of that says they can.
And there were a LOT of people in comas back in 2064...
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Completely GM call. There is nothing to indicate that you can't.
If you decide that you can, then:
Net Hits 1-2 -> You get a glimpse at what they are dreaming about. Perhaps you can have guided somebody through 'hypnosis-type measures to be dreaming about what you want them to be dreaming about. Maybe it's random. Up to the GM.
Net Hits 3-4 -> Works as normal.
Net Hits 5+ -> works as normal.
There is nothing anyone here can say with any level of definite clarity that it would work one way or another, either through fluff, RAW, or their understanding of how brain's work and what happens when we sleep.
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What is the benefit of doing it while they sleep? That they don't know they were probed? Whether you can or can't the subject will know that they have been probed, though they may not know the source, this is black and white in RAW. The feeling of magical brain invasion is real. But RAW already allows that they may not know the source, so it doesn't add any real benefit. You can as easily Mindprobe them from invisibility or any number of things.
Does it wake them up? Maybe, maybe not: GM call. Waking up from sleep or being knocked out with a definite feeling you've been mentally assaulted can make for as fine a story as any other.
What is unbalanced by allowing this? You have the subject. You can wait till they wake up and then Mind Probe them from invisibility. The end result is the same. They know they've been probed, they don't know the source.
I guess mostly it comes down to how do you feel about it for your story purposes and if the tables were turned and in other circumstances (so you can make a consistent ruling).