Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: FrowningMirror on <07-16-15/0108:03>
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I have a hypothetical question about the biocompatibility quality :
In game terms, the Essence
cost of implants of the particular chosen type are re-
duced by ten percent, rounded down to the tenth. This
rebate is cumulative with the reduction offered by the
chosen ’ware’s grade, if any (e.g., the reduction for al-
phaware of 0.8 is reduced by ten percent, or 0.08, to
become 0.72, and is rounded down to 0.7).
If, for example, I take 3 points of used toner which is normally 0.75 essence, and then pick up biocompatibility which would put me at 0.69 essence before rounding, how would I round down afterward? Would you guys rule 0.6 or 0.7 or 0.69 in this instance?
I guess what I'm saying, is do you guys use the common rounding or does rounding down mean rounding to the floor. The example chosen wasn't the best.
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Personally, I'd round it to the nearest hundredth.
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Instead of altering the ware cost, you alter the ware cost multiplayer. So with biocompatibility the costs read.
Used: 1.15
Normal: 0.9
Alpha: 0.7
Beta: 0.6
Delta: 0.4
if you have Adapsin gene treatment as well, then you remove an additional 0.1 from the multiplier, thus turning it into:
Used. 1.05
Normal: 0.8
Alpha: 0.6
Beta: 0.5
Delta: 0.3
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From Adapsin + Biocompatibilty you could also say that the reduction is 20 percent and you round after that instead of 10%, round, 10%, round. This would only make a difference for the delta ware multiplier, which would stay at 0.4 instead of 0.3: 0.5 * 0.8 = 0.4 and for used ware, which would land at a multiplier of 1.
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Personally, I subscribe to the latter; not that it makes a difference with all that delta around. Roundings should always come in after all the factors have been considered.
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The quality says exactly what it does. You reduce the essence cost multiplicatively (as the example shows; the 10% is applied after the alphaware reduction). Rounding down to the tenth is also pretty clear (it says rounding down - that means you floor it). It clearly says tenth as well, so no hundreds at all.
So:
Used: 1.125
Normal: 0.9
Alpha: 0.72
Beta: 0.63
Delta: 0.45
And then you round down to the tenth. In your example, the used toner is 0.675 (not 0.69), then rounded down to 0.6.
"Common rounding" rarely applies in Shadowrun anyway. Things are either not rounded (like essence, by default), rounded to whatever it specifies (like here, rounding down), or rounded up (the default for most things that have to be rounded that don't specify).
(I don't get why they round down to the tenth, by the way - seems silly to me, especially if you already have things rounded to hundreds in the base. But it specifies tenth explicitly, so you use tenths).
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The example shows that you round down the multiplier to the tenth, not the final essence cost.
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The example shows that you round down the multiplier to the tenth, not the final essence cost.
And the text says you round down the cost of the item. Text trumps example; the only piece of info from the example that you need (because it's not in the rules text) is that the rebate is multiplicative.
(If you do follow your interpretation, Used would become 1.1, by the way - not 1.125 or 1.15)
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And the text says you round down the cost of the item
This rebate is cumulative with the reduction offered by the chosen ’ware’s grade
That (in conjunction with the example) is clear enough to me that it's applied to grade, rather than each individual item of 'ware that qualifies.
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If you get a normal, no special grade item, the cost is reduced by 90% and then rounded. That's precisely what the text says.
Are you saying that, when you get an alphaware item, then suddenly that rounding stage happens somewhere in the meantime, and the final result is not rounded? That makes no sense.
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No.
What I'm pointing out, under the only interpretation I consider to fit the full written quality of Biocompatibility in 5e, is;
The percentage reduction applies to the grade.
The rounding applies to the grade.
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Isn't biocompatibility extremely powerful when you finding things that are 9 in the hundredth value? Worth way more than 5 karma imo.
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If you're not using a particular grade, the last sentence is irrelevant (there is no grade reduction to be cumulative with) and so does the example. The text then becomes:
In game terms, the Essence cost of implants of the particular chosen type are re-duced by ten percent, rounded down to the tenth.
That is how the quality works for non-graded implants.
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No.
What I'm pointing out, under the only interpretation I consider to fit the full written quality of Biocompatibility in 5e, is;
The percentage reduction applies to the grade.
The rounding applies to the grade.
I don't see how rounding applies to the grade, but why not just give us the values then?
Used: 1.1
Normal: 0.9
Alpha: 0.7
Beta: 0.6
Delta: 0.4
And be done with it in that case?
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No.
What I'm pointing out, under the only interpretation I consider to fit the full written quality of Biocompatibility in 5e, is;
The percentage reduction applies to the grade.
The rounding applies to the grade.
I don't see how rounding applies to the grade, but why not just give us the values then?
Used: 1.1
Normal: 0.9
Alpha: 0.7
Beta: 0.6
Delta: 0.4
And be done with it in that case?
They may when they address this in the errata. And they have stated that this quality WILL be addressed in the errata.
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I don't see how rounding applies to the grade, but why not just give us the values then?
I'm still asking the same question, myself.
If you're not using a particular grade
You are never not using a grade of bioware or cyberware. Standard is a grade.
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Maybe it was wordcount or time or space contraints.
After all, they'd need to have a combined table to show how it, f.Ex. stacks with Adapsin.
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Wak has said that using hundreths is the intention for ware essence cost I believe.
Or at least he said it was assumed that was how players would do it.
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No.
What I'm pointing out, under the only interpretation I consider to fit the full written quality of Biocompatibility in 5e, is;
The percentage reduction applies to the grade.
The rounding applies to the grade.
I don't see how rounding applies to the grade, but why not just give us the values then?
Used: 1.1
Normal: 0.9
Alpha: 0.7
Beta: 0.6
Delta: 0.4
And be done with it in that case?
Welcome to Shadowrun... where the Rules are needlessly Vague & Confusing. I expect that they think we have Common Sense.... we don't! We need these things stated very simply so we can't try to manipulate it.
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Common Sense costs karma, not everyone had leftovers at creation. ;D
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I saw a player once who claimed an Allergy to Common Sense for his character.. ;)
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Eh, common sense is overrated.
Anyway, I concede the point that they may have ment it in the way people discuss here, even though I think they worded it incorrectly. But since it's apparently getting errata'd anyway, might as well wait for that for the definitive answer.
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Do you really consider waiting for errata a sensible approach when the CRB-document hasn't been touched for like a year?
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Do you really consider waiting for errata a sensible approach when the CRB-document hasn't been touched for like a year?
*Achoo*
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It's supposed to be in the pipeline. And obviously, in the mean time it's something players have to discuss amongst their groups, and pick which interpretation they think is most correct.