Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Digital_Viking on <01-05-11/1214:02>
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So the GM has given us 500 points to build (Yes, I know we are screwed *grin*) and I thought I'd make a gunslinger adept - well first it was a general Gun Fu adept but I decided specializing might be better. Then after reading about some characters on Dumpshock I saw a gunslinger/face so I thought I'd give it a go. This is what I came up with, please let me know what you think.
Name: Remy
Handle: Cleric
Race(30 points): Elf
Attributes (230 points)
Body: 4
Agility: 6
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 4
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 5
Logic: 3
Willpower: 4
Special Attributes (50 points)
Edge: 2
Magic: 5 (4)
Positive Qualities (30 points)
Adept (5 points)
Ambidextrous (5 points)
Martial Arts (15 points)
Restricted Gear (Muscle Toner 4) (5 points)
Negative Qualities (35 points)
Big Regret (5 points)
Lost Loved One (5 points)
Wanted (10 points)
Vendetta (5 points)
Enemy (10 points)
Active Skills (154 points)
Athletics Skill Group 3
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 4(+2)
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) 6(+2)
Automatics (Assault Rifles) 4(+2)
Dodge (Ranged Combat) 4(+2)
Infiltration 4
Perception (Visual) 4(+2)
Pilot Groundcraft (Bike) 1(+2)
First Aid 3
Etiquette (Street) 2(+2)
Knowledge Skills
English N
French 3
Italian 3
Criminal(Mafia) 3
Local Area Knowledge (New Orleans) 2
Firearms Design 4
Hangouts(Shadowrunners) 3
Chess 4
Wines 2
Martial Arts - Firefight: +2 Shoot In Melee, KravMaga: Take Aim Becomes Free Action
Adept Abilities
Combat Sense 2
Improved Combat Ability (Pistols) 1
Improved Reflexes 2
Cyberware:
Cybereyes Rtg. 4 (Alpha)
Image Link
Flare Comp
Low-Light Vision
Thermographic Vision
Smartlink
Vision Magnification
Vision Enhancement 2
Cyberears Rtg. 2 (Alpha)
Audio Enhancer 2
Balance Augmentor
Soundlink/Recorder
Spatial Recognizer
Muscle Toner Rtg. 4
Gear:
2x Colt Manhunters (Smartlinked,Melee Hardened)
2x Morrisey Elan (Smartlinked)
Ares Alpha w/ Sling and Electronic Firing
Form Fitting Body Armor Level 3
Armor Vest
Suzuki Mirage
Comlink: Transys Avalon w/Iris Orb OS
(There's other gear, but I figured those above were what might need input)
Ok folks - thoughts,opinions,flames? ;)
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Forgot to add Contacts:
Fixer (Loyalty 1 Connection 4)
Gunsmith (Loyalty 2 Connection 3)
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Why don't you just buy vision enhancements on a pair of goggles or something instead of using your magic to buy it? Heck, it's cheaper too.
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Why don't you just buy vision enhancements on a pair of goggles or something instead of using your magic to buy it? Heck, it's cheaper too.
You are right - I could use that to buy +1 to a social sklill, not sure why I did it..maybe paranoid about being stripped of gear ;)
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Then take a hit to essence and buy some implants if you're paranoid. I've never made a straight adept before, I always find I get more bang for my buck with a bit of cyber ware. In one point of essence I could fit muscle toner 2 alpha, attention co processor 3 used alpha, synthacardium 3, and a reflex recorder with a bit of room to spare.
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Then take a hit to essence and buy some implants if you're paranoid. I've never made a straight adept before, I always find I get more bang for my buck with a bit of cyber ware. In one point of essence I could fit muscle toner 2 alpha, attention co processor 3 used alpha, synthacardium 3, and a reflex recorder with a bit of room to spare.
Or take the restricted gear quality and go straight for Muscle toner 4, thats pretty good bang for the buck for a gunslinger and you can even fit cyber eyes in to that one point of essence.
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But is that extra 1 die worth giving up dice for dodge and perception plus another 5 bp for the restricted gear?
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Something to think about is where you plan the character to go as far as developing. The specializations are nice in that they give you 2 dice each for only a couple build points, but they are only 2 karma each if bought after an adventure or two on the other hand to raise a skill from 2 to 3 is 6 points. I see the majority of your skills are maxed by one 6 and rest 4 rule. Since you get more BP to start is the GM relaxing this rule at all? If so spending the points there could be really helpful.
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He's not really a gunslinger/face. He won't embarrass himself in social situations, but a dice pool of 7 is not enough to do the things expected of a face. Still, I would compress your language skills, into fewer with higher ratings, because your rating in a language skill acts as a cap for your social skills.
I would consider replacing your two adept vision mods with Commanding Voice and Attribute Boost (Agility): 1 (it will give you a bonus to Agility with a Drain that you can reliably soak).
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Thanks for the input folks!
Made some changes based on suggestions - and I'm trying to keep him pure adept, I know it's not the best value pointswise necessarily but it 'feels' right to me (if that makes sense).
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As for the cyberware proposition, he took Sensitive System. :)
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As for the cyberware proposition, he took Sensitive System. :)
That would have obliviously been swapped for somethink else if he would have went the optimal route of 1 or essence worth of ware ;)
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It depends. That negative quality only affects cyberware, not bioware, so a lot of adepts could take that quality (along with some muscle toner) and not be too badly affected. I wouldn't want that quality for a gunslinger, though, because I would want some cybereyes with the works, and possibly an ultrasound or radar sensor, in addition to that muscle toner.
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So I did a version with cyberware (Muscle Toner 4 and Cybereyes/Ears is nasty!). Originally I bought Magic up to 6 (5 after essence loss) but I thought Reaction and Willpower could be higher (4 and 3 respectively) so I did a version with Magic 5(4) - question is, what do you think I should drop? I had Commanding Voice and Att Boost (Agi), dropped those (Agi is 10/10 with toner) and then dropped 1 level of Improved Skill w/Pistols. But I thought maybe since Dodge is 4 I could get away with Combat Sense at 1 instead, thoughts?
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10 Agility + 6 skill + 2 specialization + 2 smartlink + 1 improved ability is 21 dice, which is a decent starting dice pool. I think your first instinct was correct - keep the combat sense at 2, so you will be able to dodge return fire better.
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Adept Powers for Gunslinger:
1. The all mighty Power: Heightened Concentration (see DG, p. 18 ) (cost: 1)
2. Quick Draw, if he uses other weapons instead Pistols. (see SM, p. 179) (cost: 0.5)
3. Nimble Fingers (see discription SM, p. 179) (cost: 0.25)
4. Improved Sense (Vision Magnification) (see SR4A, p. 196, p. 333 and p. 150) (cost: 0.25)
Qualities:
Martial Arts (Krav Maga > Take Aim becomes a Free Action!) [perfect for Power #4] (see AR, p. 157) (cost: 5 BP) btw: It is possible to get more then one Martial Arts Quality.
Adrenaline Surge (mostly because: who shoots first wins!) (see RC, p. 96) (cost: 15 BP)
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Thinking of going back to Firearms (Group) at 4 instead of Pistols at 6 (And making some other changes to make the points work) - this guy will be the ranged guy for the team (Other sam is CQB). Not sure how just pistols would work for that.
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Keep in mind that the change would lower your dice pool by 4. You could survive with a dice pool of 16, and skill groups are cost-effective in the long run. But you need to ask yourself if you would actually need/use all four skills, or whether the pistols skill and a secondary, longer-ranged firearms skill would be all you need.
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Updated with changes to skills/cyber - will give your suggestions some thought UV, thanks again everyone!
(Also working on a Mino Street Sam who's range support and meatshield - will post the WIP later!)
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Just going back over this character (Still trying to decide between him and the Ork/Mino cyber for our teams fire support) - how important do you all feel having Ambidextrous is for a gunslinger? I like the idea of firing 2 pistols or SMGs but splitting dice pools seems like a good way to miss a lot.
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I think that two fisted shooting is going to be great if you wnat to engage multiple multiple targets (of course for even lower dice pools). One handed pistols with a sexy dice pool allows you to ramp up the damage fairly easily (or at least ensure hitting). Stylize with called shots (for damage, or to avoid armor) and I think you are in business.
as to the question of how much range? I will agree with Glyph. keep pistols as the primary, and stack another skill for big range (Rifle is respectable, could even turn the character into an homage to classic pre-sixth world westerns).
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Sooo...still looking at this idea (Actually not sure between Elf and Ork for the gunslinger) Weaponwise would you all go for a normal pistol (I'm think Colt Manhunters) or a burst capable heavy pistol(Like a Savalette) ?
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At that point, it's more about your character's style, I think. ;)
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Ork version of the gunslinger idea - Elf Gunslinger adepts seem to be fairly common around the net so I thought I might try something else
Name: Remy
Handle: Cleric
Race(20 points): Ork
Attributes (220 points)
Body: 5
Agility: 5 (9)
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 5
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 5
Logic: 4
Willpower: 4
Special Attributes (50 points)
Edge: 1
Magic: 6 (5)
Positive Qualities (35 points)
Adept (5 points)
Ambidextrous (5 points)
Martial Arts (20 points)
Restricted Gear (Muscle Toner 4) (5 points)
Negative Qualities (35 points)
Big Regret (5 points)
Lost Loved One (5 points)
Wanted (10 points)
Vendetta (5 points)
Enemy (10 points)
Active Skills (150 points)
Athletics Skill Group 1
Stealth Skill Group 1
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 4(+2)
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) 6(+2)
Automatics (Assault Rifles) 4(+2)
Dodge 4
Armorer (Firearms) 2(+2)
Perception 4
Pilot Groundcraft (Bike) 1(+2)
Etiquette (Street) 2(+2)
Knowledge Skills I have more points to spend)
English N
French 3
Italian 3
Criminal(Mafia) 3
Local Area Knowledge (New Orleans) 2
Firearms Design 4
Hangouts(Shadowrunners) 3
Chess 4
Wines 2
Martial Arts - Firefight: +2 Shoot In Melee, Krav Maga: Take Aim Becomes Free Action, Sangre Y Acero +1 Shoot In Melee
Adept Abilities
Combat Sense 2
Improved Combat Ability (Pistols) 2
Improved Reflexes 2
Nimble Fingers
Ultrasound OR Radar
Cyberware:
Cybereyes Rtg. 4 (Alpha)
Image Link
Flare Comp
Low-Light Vision
Thermographic Vision
Smartlink
Vision Magnification
Vision Enhancement 2
Cyberears Rtg. 2 (Alpha)
Audio Enhancer 2
Balance Augmentor
Soundlink/Recorder
Spatial Recognizer
Muscle Toner Rtg. 4
Interested in feedback on this - I know folks aren't necessarily keen on having Magic at 6, but I thought it might be balanced by adding another die to Pistols, Nimble Fingers and Ultrasound or Radar.
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Final question guys (I swear)
5 magic vs. 6 magic - is the +1 DP to pistols, Nimble fingers and .25 of something worth what else I could do with the 25 points? Just trying to get a feel for folks opinions on maxxing out that stat initially and how important something like nimble fingers is from jump.
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Nimble Fingers allows you to reload as a free action
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I'm no friends of Hardmaxing.
I would spent the 25 Points on other Attributes or Skills and get the 6th MAG with Karma
Hokahey
Medicineman
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Normally, I am not a big fan of hard maxing, either. But, this is a 500 build point campaign, and you seem to have most of what you want for this guy, so it might be worth it. It all comes down to opportunity costs - what else that 25 BP could buy. If you have the other stuff you need covered, then 25 BP is worth it, in that you are improving in your area of primary focus. My advice would be different if you were trying to do more thing with this guy, or if it was a 400 BP campaign.
By the way - check with your GM about the ultrasound/radar thing, to be sure he will allow it. I am a fairly lenient GM, and I wouldn't allow that.
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Normally, I am not a big fan of hard maxing, either. But, this is a 500 build point campaign, and you seem to have most of what you want for this guy, so it might be worth it. It all comes down to opportunity costs - what else that 25 BP could buy. If you have the other stuff you need covered, then 25 BP is worth it, in that you are improving in your area of primary focus. My advice would be different if you were trying to do more thing with this guy, or if it was a 400 BP campaign.
By the way - check with your GM about the ultrasound/radar thing, to be sure he will allow it. I am a fairly lenient GM, and I wouldn't allow that.
Well if I go Magic 5 - I'll pick up Celerity/Nasty Vibe(Metavariant),another MA ability and bump Intimidation up. Combat Sense and Improved Ability will be at 1 each so I can have Nimble Fingers and either Sonar or another .25 ability (Maybe Commanding Voice or Linguistics)
With Magic 6 - He stays where he is now, except Combat Sense and Improved Ability stay at 1 so I can pick up Heightened Concentration
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A min/max way:
Name: Remy
Handle: Cleric
Race(30 points): Elf
Attributes (230 points)
Body: 5(6)
Agility: 8(13)
Reaction: 5 (9)
Strength: 2(3)
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 5
Logic: 2(3)
Willpower: 5
Special Attributes (50 points)
Edge: 1
Magic: 6 (4)
Positive Qualities (35 points)
Adept (5 points)
Restricted Gear (Muscle Toner 4) (5 points)
Restricted Gear (supratyroidgland) (5 points)
Surge 3:
-metagenetic improvement (agility)
-Biocompatibility (bioware)
Negative Qualities (35 points)
Big Regret (5 points)
Lost Loved One (5 points)
Wanted (10 points)
Vendetta (5 points)
Enemy (10 points)
Surge: Albinism (10 points)
Surge: thirds eyes (5 points)
Active Skills (116 points)
Automatics :6(+2)
Athletics (Group): 1
Influence (Group): 1
Stealth (Group): 1
Blades : 4(+2)
Unarmed Combat : 1
Perception : 4 (+2)
Etiquette: 2
Dodge: 2
Armorer: 1
Knowledge Skills
Spertiel N
English 6
French 3
Italian 3
Criminal(Mafia) 3
Local Area Knowledge (New Orleans) 2
Firearms Design 4
Hangouts(Shadowrunners) 3
Adept Abilities (4)
-Improved Combat Ability (automatic) 4 (6+1from refelex recorder /2 = 3,5 rounded up=4 max)
Geas: condition: always’s used a special silencer or weapon…
-Improved Reflexes 2
X ware: 1,986 lost of essence
Cyberware (0,48/2: 0,24):
-Cybereyes Rtg. 2 (Alpha) (0,24)
Flare Comp
Low-Light Vision
Smartlink
Vision Enhancement 3
-Reaction ehancer (R1) (alpha) (0,24)
Bioware: (1,94 >> bio compa:1,746)
-Genetic Optimization (Agility) (0,18)
-Reflex Recorder- Skill (automatic) (Alpha) (0,072)
-Suprathyroid Gland (0,63)
-Muscle Toner (R4) (0,72)
-Cerebral Booster (R1) (Alpha) (0,144)
Contact:
One 4/4
One 3/3
Gear: remains 52k of 250k…
AG 13 + Skills (6+1rr+4adp+spé2) + Smartlink: 28 (your team must buy a netach ;) )
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The skill is calculated incorrectly. The base skill is what is purchased at character creation. Some abilities and implants can increase this, creating a modified skill rating which cannot exceed the base skill rating x 1.5. So 9 is the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the aptitude quality (the latter example demonstrates that you round down). So the base skill is 6. The reflex recorder doesn't increase the base skill, but gives a modified skill rating of 7. You can get two points of improved ability to get that to a modified skill rating of 9 - not four.
This is from the section talking about skills - I could see making that mistake if you were just looking at the improved ability power. On the other hand, you can either spend that power point on something like two points of combat sense, or take a base Magic of 5 instead of 6, freeing up 25 build points.
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Oupss ! A missremember of "reflex recorder" txt, i was sure it pump skill and no "give bonus" :'(
However, it remains 26 to fire, (but with a 500BP built table, it's certainly an obligation...)
Glyph: Like you said with 25 free point theyr's a lot things to do !
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If you want to save Essence, you can lose the Cyberears, down the 'Eyes to R3 and pop in two Ocular Drones aka iBall's and go to town. Default Modification limit of 4, plus another 4 because of Limited Maneuverability means you have some space for work. The important part is the Sensors, and there's that Improved Sensor Package or something Mod if you want to browse the books and try and fit in UWB Radar or something.
Mini-drone Capacity is 3, Imp-Sense takes that to 5. Buy a Camera. That's 1 Capacity. Trid Camera at R6 costs you 600 yen, and can be modified with up to Capacity 6 Vision/Hearing enhancement Mods. I think Ultrasound/Motion Sensor thing is a Hearing Mod. See where I'm going with this? Buy the Offensive iBall for +5oo yen each, and the come with a built-in Flashpack and Smoke Grenade. Whatever direction you look: enemies suffer negative modifiers. You run into a building, gas-mask on, knockout gas streaming from your eyes.
Hell, your eyes are Robots. See if you can get them to run some non-essential software like Facial/Tread/Gun/etc Recognition, or try and turn them into CommLinks.
Also, not everything has to be built-in. Carry a hand-held Sensor package for Radar if it won't fit in the drones, don't waste your Power Points. And if you're making a two-fister who can continue to do so in melee, you need to buy the Two-Weapon Style Martial-Arts Manuever. Either try to let Hardlines Gloves + Forearms Guards let you do it with Unarmed, or take Clubs instead and use one pistol while you drill the guy with the other. If you want to two-fist at range, the Hawkeye Quality and/or Improved Range Finder gun Mod will help you do long(er) ranges without switching dice pools.