Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Zodd on <09-13-15/1744:14>
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Heya all ya all chummers,
Got a real quick question for you - where is the love for melee weapons ?
And i do not mean in builds, or choice of weaponry, but add-ons to the same - like Dikote or Unfolding or Firebrand or such stuff, is there really 0 enhancements for them or am i just blind as a four eye bat ?
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Personalized Grip ;D
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Bah, you have a means of attack that never runs out of ammo like Ranged, doesn't have Drain like magic and can not be negated by an opponent going wireless off like decking and you still want more? :P
But yeah I do miss the Dikote because we liked the shiny.
Shouldn't be too difficult to rewrite them for 5th though.
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Weapon personality?
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Weapon personality?
Oh great idea. Sure I don't get enough lip from my team but now I have to worry about my weapons getting uppity? Gee thanks! :D
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Heya all ya all chummers,
Got a real quick question for you - where is the love for melee weapons ?
And i do not mean in builds, or choice of weaponry, but add-ons to the same - like Dikote or Unfolding or Firebrand or such stuff, is there really 0 enhancements for them or am i just blind as a four eye bat ?
but there IS big love for Melee by penalizing Firearms ( Only One Attack per IP) and with the raise of Meleedamage ( Base STR + X instead of STR/2 + x (in 4a Ed) they improved Melee incredibly.
Nothing is more Awesome than the Troll Melee Adept with a Dmage Potencial of an Assault Cannon ;)
( or maybe ....there is less Hate for the Melee char than for the Weapons specialist ? I don't know, but the ones that like to modify and Pimp their gun got the much,much shorter End of the Stick !!)
And Modifiers for Weapons, Yeahhh, CGL cut that down explicitely and spred some Mods across their PDFs ( like personalized Grip) but this is more Painful for the Weaponsmith than for the Melee Char (faaaaaar more painfull !!)
with an aching Dance
Medicineman
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Martial arts mate. Get Reading!
There is the personalised grip at 100ny for +1 accuracy and you can take sheaths for quickdrawing (one of the jackets in run and gun comes with one as standard built in for a sword)
I guess you could gecko grip it too so you can't be disarmed easily. Other than that, weapon foci!!
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Adept (and Magicians, maybe?) using Imbue Item and Attune Item are great for melee weapons as well. Very worth looking into.
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Plus if you are adding Adept to the equation, there are several different version of Elemental Weapon adept power (each are bought separately) if you want a flaming weapon or one with crackling electricity running along it.
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What about elemental aura spell? Or is that not present in 5E?
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Elemental Aura for Adepts is the Elemental Body Adept Power, pg 170 in SG.
However weapons held by the Adept do not benefit from the elemental effect, the aura offensive component only aids unarmed strikes.
You need Elemental Weapon if you want your sword/axe/banjo(what? I saw a Redneck Mysad take out a whole bar with one once)/etc.. to deliver an elemental effect.
And yes, there are toxic versions of this, so if your opponent's weapon has a sickly green glow about it, remember lead lined undies are not just a fashion statement in some parts. ;)
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After running a game at Dragon*Con... Weapon Foci in astral space are OMGWTFBBQ deadly.
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After running a game at Dragon*Con... Weapon Foci in astral space are OMGWTFBBQ deadly.
I'm saving for a Bullwhip Weaponfocus (Char has CHA 9 ;) )
with a OMGWTFBBQ Dance
Medicineman
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Nah, Adept is taken in my game, i decided to run a tanky street sam, got an Ork, pushed damage soak as far as it will go and hoping for the best at the moment :) so all of those elemental thingies are out for me - all tho personalized grip sounds nice, raising accuracy of Katana to 8.
Also, completely irrelevant to current topic, but i was searching for lots and lots of stuff and it seems that general consensus is that cyberlimbs are a pitfall ? Anyone care to explain why ? Next to the rules that can be interpreted in two different ways and Chrome Flesh doing nothing to support either claim.
Cause while expensive, it does allow for some frisky frisky numbers on both dice pool and damage. Running enhanced arms for Agi 9 (6 max, +3 enhanced) and Str 10 (Max 8 on an Ork, +2 enhanced) brings in a lot of pain - like 9 agi + 6 blades + 2 spec +1 from reflex recorder pushes blades DP to 18 (no small number) and damage to 13P -3AP being on par with an auto cannon
Not trying to turn this into a flame war, but my rational that seems to stick with my GM is the following:
Page 94.
Keep in mind there are three restrictions when it
comes to purchasing gear. First, when purchasing augmentations
such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute
rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an
augmentation bonus of up to +4. If the attribute being
raised has not reached its natural maximum limit, the
attribute can be raised naturally with Karma; but at no
point can augmentations exceed the +4 bonus cap.
This tells us that no Augmentation can bring an attribute 4 higher then it's natural maximum limit
So that brings in the question - what is the natural maximum limit ?
In character creation, page 66 it states the following:
This table shows the starting
attribute ratings for each metatype (the number before
the slash) as well as the maximum for each.
And on the same page another paragraph states the following:
A player needs to be careful in building their character,
as many of the attributes have a natural limit below
the default level of 6 to reflect a metatype’s inherent disadvantage
in that particular attribute.
We should all be on the same page as to what natural limit (or Natural Maximum Limit) is now.
That brings us to customized cyberlimbs on page:
Customization: You can have your cyberlimb tailored
and customized to your frame and musculature. Customization
lets you add to your limb’s base Strength and/or
Agility ratings. Each increase of either attribute increases
the limb’s Availability and cost. If either of your limb’s attributes
are increased beyond your natural maximum for
that attribute, you can’t use the cyberlimb (so don’t overdo
it), but you can still add cyberlimb enhancements. You
customize your cyberlimb when you buy it; you can’t customize
it after purchase, but you can add enhancements.
Cyberlimbs may be either obvious or synthetic.
"If either of your limb’s attributes are increased beyond your natural maximum for that attribute, you can’t use the cyberlimb" - so for a human maximum would be 6 Str and 6 Agi correct ?
Also note that enhanced Strength/Agility that can be bought with cyberlimbs is maxed out on +3, so it is not in direct conflict with what's said on page 94 that natural maximum can't be augmented beyond +4.
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Limbs can take customization up to normal max, but then have to take the enhancements, possibly still owing to the +4 maximum.
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Actually, I get the point of the thread now Zodd. I tried to build a customized weapon for a street sam last night who is not magical. So - Katana with a personalized grip and Geko Grip.
That is it.
Wow, you are so right. No special materials (like a silver alloy) , no Dikote, no sharpening.
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Dikote is easy to load in - it adds the same sort of 'Armor Piercing' quality (Weapon - 4 AP) as APDS, and costs ¥1000 per 100 square cm (approximately 800 square cm for a katana, so total cost of 9000¥). If/when anti-vehicular rounds ever hit the game, you might apply those mods instead of APDS: Dikote traditionally enabled an edged weapon to be used in a quasi-anti-vehicular manner.
And if your GM is really on the ball, he'll allow you to start developing contacts to find the guy who can make a functionally-dikoted blade that doesn't actually use dikote, i.e. the best swordsmith in the world ... ;)
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costs ¥1000 per 100 square cm
There's a set of calculations that needs to die in a fire. Make it expensive. Base it on the DV bonus, even. Don't ask for the surface area of an imaginary item.
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A katana or a combat Blade or an Arrowhead is (for Me) not so much of an imaginary Item (if need be I can google these Items ;) )
the DV or AP are more of ...Imaginary figures than said Square cm of a Katana or Arrow Head
We included Dikote in my own SR2055 Game
it adds to us +1DV and on edged /piercing Waepons it also gives AP -1
HougH!
Medicineman
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Just been asked by a cub how much surface area is there on his monowhip if he wanted to dikote it.
>_<
*borrows Reaver's 2x4 for a few minutes*
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A katana or a combat Blade or an Arrowhead is (for Me) not so much of an imaginary Item
If you can't physically hold it, I hesitate to consider that specific instance a 'real' item. ;)
I was actually thinking of the katana when I wrote that. They vary in size somewhat without being small enough to consider a wakizashi or large enough for a no-dachi. I'd be slightly annoyed if I had done any research on swords and chosen a specific type or make of katana - and then found out I was being penalised for surface area compared to something else with exactly the same stats.
Probably not going to happen when working per 100cm squared on a katana, but the issue of fiddliness translates to other items.
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Same issue when calling all katanas two handed only weapons. There were styles and types that could be easily used in one hand, but were still called a katana. Depends on the time period and prominent style you refer too. My gm allowed me to use a katana with a wakazashi for the two weapon style martial arts trick via one trick pony.
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Oh, god, not this. Look, while all your arguments are correct, for SR they're not functional - or did y'all think that they'd ALL cost 1000¥? A thousand for the weapon, and if you think a x9 mark-up (hey, go for x10 - a clean ¥10,000) for -4 AV isn't enough, you need to rethink how much you're paying for APDS.
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After running a game at Dragon*Con... Weapon Foci in astral space are OMGWTFBBQ deadly.
Chances are 99% I played at your table then. I was J-Dawg.
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*glum* Wish I could've gone. Still wish I could get into a decent SR game here in the NE of ATL.
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It was a blast. That 6-06 mission though...no spoilers, but ouch.
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It was a blast. That 6-06 mission though...no spoilers, but ouch.
my solution was simple but pricy... i walked away with no dice rolled and no bullets fired. but there was a massive explosion and a building collapsing. Oh ya, i was down one Bulldog Step Van and about 20k in explosives after the process but it was worth it.... (GM gave me a free beat up van that i was able to "hijack" a few blocks away" so that offset a small amount of $$)
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I used to play an unarmed adept in SR 4. They totally nerfed critical strike. I feel your pain, OP.
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It was a blast. That 6-06 mission though...no spoilers, but ouch.
my solution was simple but pricy... i walked away with no dice rolled and no bullets fired. but there was a massive explosion and a building collapsing. Oh ya, i was down one Bulldog Step Van and about 20k in explosives after the process but it was worth it.... (GM gave me a free beat up van that i was able to "hijack" a few blocks away" so that offset a small amount of $$)
Two spent drums of explosive ammo for my enfield as 7, and four edge points later, I walked away intact.
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I clearly need to look over this mission ...
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I clearly need to look over this mission ...
Worth it. My best advice is to make sure you're smart. Or have a lot of explosive/APDS ammo. Or a real nice GM.
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The 2050 book includes values for Dikote as well as form fitting armor in the style of SR4th Arsenal which should be compatible with any armor. So high STR-characters have some more options.
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Honestly, dikote should NOT be compatable with any standard armor. Military, maybe. But it should add a point at most.
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Honestly, dikote should NOT be compatable with any standard armor. Military, maybe.
Why not?
Even the inbook example is talking about a Coat and a Jacket. as possible targets for the coating.
In regards to stats:
The German 2050 Sourcebook is written for SR5, in it Dikote gives +1 Armor on clothing and +1 Damage on melee Weapons plus an additonal +1 AP on Blades.
I don't know if this is similiar to the 4e Rulebooks.
Seems okay in regard to balance.
Coating Armor is extremly expensive but the GM might have to take a look at players using stuff like Diko-Coated Balistic Masks and Forearm-Guards to circumvent this.
Coating Weapons with it is a bit better, but i'm not entireley convinced that spending 6000 aditional bucks on a Katana (albeit for a real good bonus) is something that many Runners will do (baring dedicated Melee-Fighters, but a boost for these is okay).
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Is it an additional 6k per weapon/armor? Cant read German, but might be good info to give my DM. Also, how does it effect availability?
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>> Is it an additional 6k per weapon/armor?
No its the (Usual) 1000 ¥ per 100 cm°2 so its 6000 ¥ for a long Katana
Which is ImO ridiculous because you only need to coat the Edge maybe 1/2 a Centimeter on each side so a 75 CM long katana needs only 75 Centimeter of surface to be coated
not 75 centimeter x 5 centimeter (right side) + 75 CM x 5 CM (left side)
but that is another topic (Economy )
Coating an Arrowhead or Combat knife is more economic
my Gnomish Throwing Adept uses Dikote coated 7 Inch Nails (you need only 1 cm°2 per Nail for the Tip only
which is MOST economic ;) )
with an economic Dance
Medicineman
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Ok, cool. Again, how is availability adjusted? Or is it a flat availability rating?
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the Stuff itself has an Availiability of 4 (no R ,no F, nothing ,just 4 )
thats all.
"Dikote
with this chemical process a layer of diamond is applied to a hard surface......"
with a very easy to obtained Dance
Medicineman
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What?? Wow, that is super easy, almost into the no roll needed zone.
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Yes, its really easy to obtain.
Considering the pricetag for putting this stuff on bigger weapons or even Armor, thats hardly an issue though.
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This is one of those points where if you don't know the background, you can't effectively talk about what it is you're talking about. Your arguments sound good, I agree, and would be wizzer, except for the fact that y'all haven't a clue how it works.
Dikote, as a process, spreads a layer of crystalline carbon - diamond - across the surface of an object. That's not part of the surface, that's the entire surface. Why? And why doesn't the Wyrm think it appropriate to apply to armor? Well, let me quote directly from Shadowtech, the 2e sourcebook in which it's introduced:
DikoteTM
DikoteTM is a process that deposits a thin diamond film on any solid surface. Small volumes of methane gas are mixed with large volumes of hydrogen gas, then subjected to powerful beams of microwave energy. This creates a plasma, a super-hot gas in which all atoms are ionized. the plasma is then passed over the cooler solid target, forming a diamond film as the gases condense on the surface.
The diamond film imparts much more structural strength and resilience to conventional materials ... <game information clipped>.
Treated products also find use in the construction of high-speed bearings. Bearings treated with DikoteTM last in high-temperature environments where conventional lubricants break down, permitting the development fo faster, more efficient, more powerful engines and turbines...
>>>>>[ Not everything can be glazed with Dikote. The item treated must be able to withstand the heat generated by the plasma. This obviously eliminates cloth and plastic, which, unfortunately, comprise the bulk of casual armor these days. If you've got some of the heavier stuff or ceramic armor, getting it glazed is a great idea, if you have the money. ]<<<<<
-- The Smiling Bandit <Strikes again!/Ha-Ha-Ha>
Understand that your softer metallic materials, including bullets, aren't gonna survive this process; they're going to soften, distort, even melt under the heat of the plasma bath, and metagamewise, 'dikoting' your APDS rounds was effectively double-dipping. As well, it was generally accepted that the glazing process takes place in a closed container, not with something that's functionally a hand-held 'dikoting torch'; this means that your object has to be able to fit within the container, thus limiting the size of the object you can dikote. This means that no matter what you want to put the coating on, you have to coat the entire surface area of it - and thus pay for the entire surface area, inside and out.
Back when you didn't have a single rating for armor, you could distinguish what was able to be dikoted, armor-wise - anything that used ceramic plates for projectile (or impact) resistance. You'd dikote the plate, then put it into the armor, thus upgrading your armor by one. Nowadays it's a bit less specific, and while it's something to be left up to the GM, a good general rule would be 'hard armors only' - and in keeping with the 'this is gonna cost you an arm and a leg', dikoting a ceramic back-and-breast clamshell is going to cost you a whole boatload of cash, because you have to dikote the whole thing. SR2 estimated a standard human-sized jacket at 1.5m2, a full suit 2.5m2, and a long coat 2.75m2. At 1000¥ per 0.1m2, you're looking at 15,000¥, 25,000¥ for a full suit, and 27,500¥ for a long coat. Not sure I agree with their estimates, but they're also talking about just the ceramics ...
Anyhow. Easy to get. Wildly expensive for what it does, for anything except very small objects, but even then there's a minimum 1000¥ charge ... unless you're doing multiple objects and adding it together.
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This is one of those points where if you don't know the background, you can't effectively talk about what it is you're talking about. Your arguments sound good, I agree, and would be wizzer, except for the fact that y'all haven't a clue how it works.
Dikote, as a process, spreads a layer of crystalline carbon - diamond - across the surface of an object. That's not part of the surface, that's the entire surface. Why? And why doesn't the Wyrm think it appropriate to apply to armor? Well, let me quote directly from Shadowtech, the 2e sourcebook in which it's introduced:
DikoteTM
DikoteTM is a process that deposits a thin diamond film on any solid surface. Small volumes of methane gas are mixed with large volumes of hydrogen gas, then subjected to powerful beams of microwave energy. This creates a plasma, a super-hot gas in which all atoms are ionized. the plasma is then passed over the cooler solid target, forming a diamond film as the gases condense on the surface.
The diamond film imparts much more structural strength and resilience to conventional materials ... <game information clipped>.
Treated products also find use in the construction of high-speed bearings. Bearings treated with DikoteTM last in high-temperature environments where conventional lubricants break down, permitting the development fo faster, more efficient, more powerful engines and turbines...
>>>>>[ Not everything can be glazed with Dikote. The item treated must be able to withstand the heat generated by the plasma. This obviously eliminates cloth and plastic, which, unfortunately, comprise the bulk of casual armor these days. If you've got some of the heavier stuff or ceramic armor, getting it glazed is a great idea, if you have the money. ]<<<<<
-- The Smiling Bandit <Strikes again!/Ha-Ha-Ha>
Understand that your softer metallic materials, including bullets, aren't gonna survive this process; they're going to soften, distort, even melt under the heat of the plasma bath, and metagamewise, 'dikoting' your APDS rounds was effectively double-dipping. As well, it was generally accepted that the glazing process takes place in a closed container, not with something that's functionally a hand-held 'dikoting torch'; this means that your object has to be able to fit within the container, thus limiting the size of the object you can dikote. This means that no matter what you want to put the coating on, you have to coat the entire surface area of it - and thus pay for the entire surface area, inside and out.
Back when you didn't have a single rating for armor, you could distinguish what was able to be dikoted, armor-wise - anything that used ceramic plates for projectile (or impact) resistance. You'd dikote the plate, then put it into the armor, thus upgrading your armor by one. Nowadays it's a bit less specific, and while it's something to be left up to the GM, a good general rule would be 'hard armors only' - and in keeping with the 'this is gonna cost you an arm and a leg', dikoting a ceramic back-and-breast clamshell is going to cost you a whole boatload of cash, because you have to dikote the whole thing. SR2 estimated a standard human-sized jacket at 1.5m2, a full suit 2.5m2, and a long coat 2.75m2. At 1000¥ per 0.1m2, you're looking at 15,000¥, 25,000¥ for a full suit, and 27,500¥ for a long coat. Not sure I agree with their estimates, but they're also talking about just the ceramics ...
Anyhow. Easy to get. Wildly expensive for what it does, for anything except very small objects, but even then there's a minimum 1000¥ charge ... unless you're doing multiple objects and adding it together.
As a preface: Please do us a favor and stop being so smug about knowing and not-knowing.
Most of what you told us in your post, barring the part about the plasma-process (which is only techno-bable anyways), can be found in the rules section in the 2050s Book down to the examples you used for armor, with the exact same types of armors and sizes used (with the difference there beingt that the sizes are written in cm², not m²).
So, yes, as a matter of fact, we (those with acces to the book) know what we are talking about, having the rules pretty much written in front of us.
Sure, its not stated explicitely that you need to coat the entire item, but when the rules give you several examples of cm² and the cost per 100 cm², the INTENT is pretty clear (at least to me).
I see where you are coming from, but i don't recognize this as a problem, except if you are bend on making it one.
For starters, First and 2nd Edition was quite a few years ago, ingame speaking.
Having a noticeable higher resistance to heat for common materials isn't really a far stretch, especially since you can now (2075) imbue even casual dresses with fire resistant coating.
"Plastic" also covers a pretty wide margin of possible materials and considering that you can nowadays (2015) print shooting-safe barrels and chambers for guns with dirt cheap consumer-grade Printers, i doubt that technological advancement (even speaking strictly INGAME from the times of 2nd to 5th) would make this a real problem.
Your "hard armor only" houserule is a ruling that has no base, even with the stuff you posted.
There is nothing indicating in the text that it could only be applied to hard materials and seeing as both the rules text in Shadowtech and SR 2050 mention Dikote-Treated Jackets, Suits and long coats (not "Traumaplates put into your fancy clothing"), your Houserule objectively goes against RAW.
Same goes with your comment about bullets.
Why do you even mention it, when neither the Shadowtech, nor the 2050s rulebook give this as an option to begin with?
Coating Projectile weapons on the other hand, is explicitely mentioned as being possible, in the Shadowtech book, though that option is missing in the 2050 Book, same with the parrying bonus.
So:
Tl;DR:
You can coat whatever you like in Dikote, but it has to be the full object, not only parts of it (at least thats implied by both the actual rules text and the more extensive old one).
Besides that though, there are no RAW restrictions on what materials this coating can be applied on. Restricting it to "military armor" is an arbitrary Houserule.
IF you want to use the Shadowtalk as an additional source, keep in mind that its the subjective notion of a few runners on the techlevel 25 years in the ingame past.
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On a side note, while a handheld dikoting torch may be out, this does give me an idea for a mad scientist type bad guy using what amounts to a Dikoting flamethrower (limited range as the gases condense quickly along with hefty power cables running back to his van so limited mobility while on foot.) where he is exacting revenge for (fill in the blank) reasons, horribly burning his victims and encasing the twisted charred remains in the synthetic diamond coating to immortalize his works. (SR's twisted version of Captain Cold? :P)
It's not a practical or easily portable weapon as it needs a bit of gear and tech, so even if the runners get it at the end it's of limited usefulness plus the shoddy shielding on it isn't the best to keep the microwave energy from bleeding a bit, but could make for a fun one off weapon of extreme mayhem while the runners have to track down and put a stop to this madman.
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Tl;DR:
Okay.
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Yip Yip Yip
Uh...no. Making armor, such as casual dresses, fire resistant and making them plasma resistant are two different animals entirely. If you wanna show off how smart you are, at least do a minimal amount of research. Plasma is hotter than fire by literal orders of magnitude. Wyrm is right, those aren't arbitrary house rules he was suggesting. They're common sense.
<old> Now get off my lawn. </old>
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Uh...no. Making armor, such as casual dresses, fire resistant and making them plasma resistant are two different animals entirely. If you wanna show off how smart you are, at least do a minimal amount of research. Plasma is hotter than fire by literal orders of magnitude. Wyrm is right, those aren't arbitrary house rules he was suggesting. They're common sense.
You also forgot the 1-3e descriptions of the various types of armor - ballistic being primarily types of ballistic cloth, like Kevlar, while impact being mainly the plastic/metal plates and such. While each assisted the other, pure 'plated' items (such as forearm guards or the hard hat) added only to your impact rating, while most 'pure cloth' items (shirts and the 'Venetian' and 'Ancien' evening gown lines) possessed only ballistic ratings. But of course, that's pure nonsense, you could dikote an evening gown or a shirt, despite The Smiling Bandit's statements.
I mean, it isn't like The Smiling Bandit is one of the most scientifically-knowledgeable of all of the Shadowland / JackPoint posters, is he.
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Arrowheads,Shuriken, Combatknifes or the Tip of Nails thats what I /my Chars dikote.
Everything else is too expensive ,/not effective enough !
with an economical Dance
Medicneman
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with an economical Cheap Dance
Medicneman
Fixed that for you. ;)
Just teasing ;D
But yeah, it makes good sense to dikote the weapon heads/smaller weapons like that for the added punch.
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Still a minimum 1000¥ per batch. :P
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Still a minimum 1000¥ per batch. :P
but You can coat 100 Nailtips (each with 1 CM°2 )
HeyaHeyaHeyJaJa
Medicineman
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See above re: coating the whole thing. I'd guess 25-50, but hey ...
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Uh...no. Making armor, such as casual dresses, fire resistant and making them plasma resistant are two different animals entirely. If you wanna show off how smart you are, at least do a minimal amount of research. Plasma is hotter than fire by literal orders of magnitude. Wyrm is right, those aren't arbitrary house rules he was suggesting. They're common sense.
You also forgot the 1-3e descriptions of the various types of armor - ballistic being primarily types of ballistic cloth, like Kevlar, while impact being mainly the plastic/metal plates and such. While each assisted the other, pure 'plated' items (such as forearm guards or the hard hat) added only to your impact rating, while most 'pure cloth' items (shirts and the 'Venetian' and 'Ancien' evening gown lines) possessed only ballistic ratings. But of course, that's pure nonsense, you could dikote an evening gown or a shirt, despite The Smiling Bandit's statements.
I mean, it isn't like The Smiling Bandit is one of the most scientifically-knowledgeable of all of the Shadowland / JackPoint posters, is he.
Sure thing mate, and yet the rules section in 1E Rulebook for Dikote EXPLICETELY talks about Dikote-treated Jackets, Suits and Long coats and Dikote giving both Ballistic and impact armor boni, making your claims invalid
Quoting a ficitional person as a source for scientific facts is a joke in itself, but not one i'll plan on partaking in.
Plasma is hotter than fire by literal orders of magnitude.
"Plasma" is a state of matter you well educated guy.
This word holds as much information about specific temperatures as "liquid" or "solid", though thats not the relevant part.
Joke is on (both of) you.
Something similiar to the idea behind the Dikoting process exists in RL, its called low pressure plasma treatment.
The relevant point of this technology is that the temperature of gas that interacts with the material itself can be kept near room temperature, so you can even treat stuff that is quite sensitive to heat.
Here, have one of (many many) informational pages on that matter:
http://www.mddionline.com/article/surface-modification-using-low-pressure-plasma-technology
One such process is low-pressure plasma technology—an environmentally friendly and cost-efficient way to modify material surfaces on a microscopic level without manual operations or the use of chemical products. With this technique, it is possible in a well-controlled and reproducible way to clean, activate, etch, or otherwise modify the surface of plastic, metal, or ceramic materials to improve their bonding capabilities or achieve totally new surface properties
A high-frequency generator— (...) or microwave range—is then used to ionize the gas into a plasma,
The formed reactive particles react in a direct way with the surface without damaging the bulk properties of the treated part.
Something sounding similiar here?
And in regard to plasma-treated clothing:
http://www.ep.liu.se/wcc/002/065/wcc12002065.pdf
But yeah, treating non-ceramics or non-hard materials with plasma-based works is totally not possible and literally contradicts common sense ::)
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Those are some interesting links, thanks for that.
Now I am thinking of just two words.
Dik(ote) Tape :P
Yes we know it would most likely break, but the concept is still funny.
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Yadda yadda yadda
... again, 'okay'. My question for you is whether or not you're deliberately trying to goad someone into a confrontation.
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Uh...no. Making armor, such as casual dresses, fire resistant and making them plasma resistant are two different animals entirely. If you wanna show off how smart you are, at least do a minimal amount of research. Plasma is hotter than fire by literal orders of magnitude. Wyrm is right, those aren't arbitrary house rules he was suggesting. They're common sense.
You also forgot the 1-3e descriptions of the various types of armor - ballistic being primarily types of ballistic cloth, like Kevlar, while impact being mainly the plastic/metal plates and such. While each assisted the other, pure 'plated' items (such as forearm guards or the hard hat) added only to your impact rating, while most 'pure cloth' items (shirts and the 'Venetian' and 'Ancien' evening gown lines) possessed only ballistic ratings. But of course, that's pure nonsense, you could dikote an evening gown or a shirt, despite The Smiling Bandit's statements.
I mean, it isn't like The Smiling Bandit is one of the most scientifically-knowledgeable of all of the Shadowland / JackPoint posters, is he.
Sure thing mate, and yet the rules section in 1E Rulebook for Dikote EXPLICETELY talks about Dikote-treated Jackets, Suits and Long coats and Dikote giving both Ballistic and impact armor boni, making your claims invalid
Quoting a ficitional person as a source for scientific facts is a joke in itself, but not one i'll plan on partaking in.
Plasma is hotter than fire by literal orders of magnitude.
"Plasma" is a state of matter you well educated guy.
This word holds as much information about specific temperatures as "liquid" or "solid", though thats not the relevant part.
Joke is on (both of) you.
Something similiar to the idea behind the Dikoting process exists in RL, its called low pressure plasma treatment.
The relevant point of this technology is that the temperature of gas that interacts with the material itself can be kept near room temperature, so you can even treat stuff that is quite sensitive to heat.
Here, have one of (many many) informational pages on that matter:
http://www.mddionline.com/article/surface-modification-using-low-pressure-plasma-technology
One such process is low-pressure plasma technology—an environmentally friendly and cost-efficient way to modify material surfaces on a microscopic level without manual operations or the use of chemical products. With this technique, it is possible in a well-controlled and reproducible way to clean, activate, etch, or otherwise modify the surface of plastic, metal, or ceramic materials to improve their bonding capabilities or achieve totally new surface properties
A high-frequency generator— (...) or microwave range—is then used to ionize the gas into a plasma,
The formed reactive particles react in a direct way with the surface without damaging the bulk properties of the treated part.
Something sounding similiar here?
And in regard to plasma-treated clothing:
http://www.ep.liu.se/wcc/002/065/wcc12002065.pdf
But yeah, treating non-ceramics or non-hard materials with plasma-based works is totally not possible and literally contradicts common sense ::)
Well, no, again. It's not a state of matter. It has been called a phase of matter, distinct from solid, liquid, or gas states. In this specific treatment, it's described as an ionized super heated gas, used to basically liquify diamond and spread it as a film over materials that are sturdy enough to resist the heat. It's specifically spelled out as such, and yet you're linking us to pages that talk about using a similar (but not identical) process to decrease permeability to alcohol/vapors and medically sterilize surfaces without using chemicals. Bravo for using Google this time, but it's still not really relevant to the subject at hand. So, yes, when the fictional character who is established in the setting as being extremely knowledgeable in things such as science and technology says something, then you can take it to the bank.
So the facts are there, plain as day. I'm also not really sure what you're trying to achieve here, other than provoking an argument.
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Cleaning and sterlizing are not the same as increasing the material strength of an object by a factor, which is what Dikote does.