Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Garrzira on <09-27-15/1654:55>
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I will be GMing a shadowrun campaign soon, a rather sporadic one as i have kids and other games going on. The reason I will be GM is twofold
First: I am the most veteran GM/DM in our group
Second: I am the most experienced shadowrun player, i have exactly one game under my belt... over skype
And there is my problem, one any way, so i need some advice on a few things
First: Helping people make characters, so far 2 of 4 players are created, one is a troll mage (wut?) and the other is a troll street samurai, but he wants to be mainly the get away driver, is this even very viable ?
Second: aside from about 15 cheat sheets to help me smooth over gameplay, what can i do to ensure the game is fun ? More than anything i am nervous because i love this game and system and i want the them to love it as well, any help is appreciated, and im sorry if this is in the wrong spot.
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Nothing wrong with a Troll Mage, OK sure Drain is a little harder to mange, but "Geek the Mage!" becomes less viable against an armored troll. As for a wheelman, high reaction and initiative (something Street Sams often have) with driving and navigation skills... that's all you really need. Sure a dedicate rigger is 'better', but that's more about pushing things towards the extreme end of stunts.
As for making the game fun, discus with your players what they expect out of the game. Do they want to play Pink Mohawk or Mirrored Shades? Are they looking at an action or story focused game? Powerful runners or low lifes making ends meet? If you can sync up what you're doing, to what they players are wanting and expecting that will always help make things fun. Even if the response is "Anything, I just want to play." then make sure you still lay out the kind of game you're going to run so they know what to expect..
As for rulings, don't let them get in the way too much... sure take a quick look to make sure you're getting it right, but if it's going to take you 15 minutes to sort out the rules, then just wing it with what feels right to you at the time. Later on you can go back at your leisure and look over things, if you got it wrong then you can tell everyone how it should have gone down (WITHOUT retconning the result) before the next session. Just try to keep the game flowing.
Also I have a large group so mileage may vary, but I've found that when you're in combat taking a short break between combat rounds can really help against mental fatigue.
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While there isn't anything intrinsically wrong with a Troll Magician, playing a character that goes so far against type is not really for someone with very little or no experience with the game. It takes a LOT of system mastery to pull that off and still be effective.
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Thanks for the responses, like i said im not new to gming but man shadowrun is a complicated beast, now im assuming shadowrun is much more forgiving of splitting the party, far as i could tell when i played anyway. i remember
decker in VR attacking the system or something, Mage astraly fighting spirits, two samurais fighting off security a rigger piloting the helicopter for extraction, and me (face) doing my best with my little hold out... any tips on making scene change a little smoother ?
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If anything requires leaving the body, try to get that sorted before there's boots on the ground. Try to set things out so that once everyone is there the hacker can handle what needs doing in AR, the mage can handle thing via Astral Perception things like that. Once you start splitting up the game into people acting on 2 or even 3 realities at once, it can both fragment and bog down the game, ESPECIALLY if combat breaks out like that.
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So if i understand you, let the hacker do his VR stuff first, then Mage in the astral plane, before the "main" group goes in ?
or more so, let the Decker and Mage get set up, and flash to them when they need to do something ?
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So if i understand you, let the hacker do his VR stuff first, then Mage in the astral plane, before the "main" group goes in ?
or more so, let the Decker and Mage get set up, and flash to them when they need to do something ?
Either system can work.
This is of course discounting the "Get the hacker to the terminal and protect them while they dive into the host/database." scenario.
Just try to keep in mind that although the Matrix and Astral are 'separate' worlds, you don't need to leave your body to work in them most of the time.
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Yeah i've been building a decker so i understand th AR VR and hot sim thing, is there an while still being in equivalent for astral ? so a mage could offer that support "meatspace"
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Mages can use Astral Perception to view the astral while still being int he physical world... it does have drawbacks of making you Dual Natured and thus vulnerable to Astral attacks, as well as imposing a penalty to meatspace actions. But from there mages can do anything short of going to another metaplane that they could Astrally Projecting.
If a Decker is in VR there's limits to how they can help out physically, Technomancers can do a little more with some of their Sprites. Mages are extremely limited as Mana spells cast from the Astral can only effect Astral or Dual Natured entities... and I don't know the the Manifestation spell allows use of physical spells in meatspace.
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Ok cool, i think i have it, thanks for all the help, I will probably be frequenting these forums, like i said though this campaign will be sporadic... once a month at best once every three months at worst, probably all day sessions though.
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While there isn't anything intrinsically wrong with a Troll Magician, playing a character that goes so far against type is not really for someone with very little or no experience with the game. It takes a LOT of system mastery to pull that off and still be effective.
Actually Troll Mage is far easier than a troll decker or rigger. Magic A Meta B Attributes C Skills D Resources E. Pick an Intuition tradition. Put 10 starting karma into resources, buy up edge to 2 or 3. You will probably be slightly behind a standard mage in drain pool, but you will be tougher, both in high body and a high str to allow for extra armor pieces. You won't be good at much other than magic you have enough extra skill points from Magic A to have spell casting, counter spelling, and summoning at 6 as well as runner basics. With a mentor spirit and a specialization or two you will have perfectly acceptable dice pools for your areas of focus.
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Intuitio NB tradition ? I only found logo and charisma... Where can I go to find this ?
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Intuitio NB tradition ? I only found logo and charisma... Where can I go to find this ?
At your local FLGS (Fine Little Gaming Store) ! Go there and buy the Streetgrimoire
HokaHey
Medicineman
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My flgs doesn't carry any shadowrun stuff. But I will have him order ot for me. Thanks for the help.
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For the summary version, if you look on the main forums, the sticky thread of assembled SR lists, you will find one of magical traditions. It includes drain stats, as well as what spirits each tradition can summon (and how they associate those to the different categories of magic). Looking at it, you’ll find spirit types you are not familiar with from the core rules; you’ll also find those in Street Grimoire. You absolutely don’t need it to play with a mage, but it does offer a lot more – more traditions, more spells, more initiation info and meta-magic options, more magical nastiness of various sorts for you to torture your players with, etc.
Regarding getting SG, it is also available as a pdf for about half the price of the dead trees version. I’m using the pdf; it is a book where I think I’d prefer the physical version, but I’ve managed to wrestle out the information I need from the pdf.
As to your question about dealing with decking/astral stuff separate from other activities, well, maybe. They made a real effort in fifth edition to make deckers and technomancers come with the group, and to give them things to do in combat (reading through gear descriptions you’ll have noticed how many things have wireless bonuses? If you have your wireless on (to get those bonuses) there is the potential for a hacker of some description to breach your personal network and do things to your gun, your communications, your cyber eyes … Reviews of how useful that is seem to be mixed, but in general hackers won’t be sitting back in the apartment, doing their own thing, while the rest of the team is on a run because of the noise penalty for being far from your target (or so I’m told – no PC hacker in my game).
Now, if they are doing a bunch of virtual legwork ahead of time, of course that needs to get run separately, ditto for mages doing astral exploration. But for that matter: ditto for the face schmoozing a bunch of people without the distraction of bunch of twitchy and violent people tagging along. People may split up during legwork, but they should be back together for the main run, generally.
I wouldn’t worry too much about party composition or efficiency, so long as one PC won’t be eclipsing all of the others. SR tends to be so evocative that most people seem to have little trouble getting into the game and having fun for the sheer joy of being a troll levitating through the air while shooting lightning bolts, being the manic dwarf with all the big guns, etc. The challenge is in making events unfold in such a way that they can deal with the challenges with the abilities that they have (or can easily hire – NPC hackers show up with many groups, so that the GM can kind of hand-wave away much of the security issues. If someone wants to play a hacker of some sort then great, but it doesn’t always happen).
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A player just asked me a question and i wanna know if i'm correct
She asked if the armor rating is the rating that has a 6 max at character creation. I told her yes.
but that means only armored clothing is available at start
is this correct or did i flub the ruling ?
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Armor isn't covered under that one. Things like rating of a medkit or comm unit, yes (things where the rating runs 1, 2, 3, ..., 6, 7 +)
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A player just asked me a question and i wanna know if i'm correct
She asked if the armor rating is the rating that has a 6 max at character creation. I told her yes.
but that means only armored clothing is available at start
is this correct or did i flub the ruling ?
You Flubbed ! :)
The Armor Rating is not the rating thats capped at 6.(my Tip is to call it Armor Value to to avoid confusion )
You need to look at the Availiability Though.
A Comlinks Device Rating (or a Maglock opener , or a Sequencer) that is the Rating thats capped at 6
with an uncapped Dance
Medicineman
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Awesome ! i will call and let her know
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The other one to watch out for is bows, although they go up to 10, a 6 is the highest you can get a chargen. It's an edge case I know, but something that could trip up an orc or troll archer.
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So for our first session(remember once a month or less) I was thinking about having them actually start right before a job... Like all the legwork was done by the npc's that hired them(Decker and face) I figured its a good way for them all to meet and avoid splitting the party for some legwork stuff(mage astrally scouting) and the benefit of jumping right into the cool stuff maybe let them choose one of a few options the face lays out... Is this a good idea or stupid ?
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If most of them are new to the game, then doing a run or two sans legwork can be helpful to prevent overload.
The Beginners Box Alphaware Pack has a book called Plots and Paydata that has some really great beginners runs with minimal legwork that expose the players to a variety of run styles. Even though I'm in a large group I've been running my players through this as almost all of us are new to Shadowrun... it is designed for a set of pregen characters so any well made group will probably smash through them fairly easily, but they do a great job of familiarizing the players and GM with the rules and types of runs they can get into.
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could you please provide a link to what you mean by beginner box?
I thought the beginner box for SR5 had only the abreviated rules and an adventure food fight ,
as well as was out of print like the core rulebook was.
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could you please provide a link to what you mean by beginner box?
I thought the beginner box for SR5 had only the abreviated rules and an adventure food fight ,
as well as was out of print like the core rulebook was.
Yeah the Beginner's Box doesn't have much, it's more the Runner's Toolkit Alphaware that has Plots and Paydata.
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/125721/Shadowrun-Digital-Tools-Box?src=hottest_filtered&filters=0_0_1700_0_0&manufacturers_id=2216
If you're at all familiar with Shadowrun I wouldn't bother... but it is a nice set of runs for people completely new to the game.
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I am going to get a few pdfs tonight. I was thinking alphaware, run faster and maybe data trails...or do you think street grimoire is better ? Or maybe just a totally different list haha
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It's really going to depend on group composition.
Gun H(e)avan 3 is a good one for random guns, many of the are crap yes, great weapons for tossing over to gangers and such.
Run & Gun is a solid all round option. Weapons, armor and martial arts are useful to all archetypes.
Run Faster... it has a lot of cool stuff, but it also pushes the boundaries and complexity. So it may not be a great option if there's a lot of new players.
Street Grimoire is a good option if you've got Awakaned characters. Vastly expands on Traditions as well as adding in a ton of new sells and adept powers, as well as a few new spirit types.
Shadow Spells once again expands options for traditions, spells and adept powers.
Lockdown is a bit of an odd one, it has some new stuff like Cyberware Suits, but it's a bit of an edge case.
Data Trails is good if you've got a hacker int he team, especially a decker. If not, well there is some new electronics and software but most of it is focused around new things deckers and technomancers can do.
Chrome Flesh is pretty much a must have if you've got heavily augmented characters, not only does it contain a pile of new cyberware and bioware, it also adds genetech and nanoware. On top of all that there's new qualities that are great for augmentation focused characters as well as a greatly expanded drugs selection.
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awesome thanks, now, i am from DnD are splat books as bad with power creep in shadowrun ?
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awesome thanks, now, i am from DnD are splat books as bad with power creep in shadowrun ?
They're not too bad. It's mostly about adding new options, cost, availability and essence do a good job of reigning in top of the line gear.
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Ok, I'm looking through the jobs rewards stuff in the core book, and i have a question
So it all makes sense for modifiers and all... but how do you work iit into the story, i mean if the team is meeting Mr.Johnson does he tell them what the job pays ? if so what if they dont face off against that highest dice pool ? or does he say here is what the job pays and handling it in a professional manner will give you a bonus ?
I ask because i know my players well, and they wont take a job with money promised without a specific number.
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Basically you use the job rewards section to work out how much the job pays, you just don't tell the players what the calculations are that make up that amount.
If there's only a chance of them coming across something that would bring the rewards up a bracket, well that's why people carry cretsticks. So that the GM can up the reward for the increased potential challenge, without giving it away with the job payment.
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That makes perfect sense... I totally forgot about cred sticks. Now all I gotta do is finish a couple npc runners then design the actual mission
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A couple more thoughts around payment:
- not every job has to have exactly the 'correct' payment in terms of nuyen. You can balance things over missions a bit. Perhaps a fairly easy job guarding a simsense production for a few days pays really well, helping to balance out the modest pay of the previous run where there was an unexpected thing that bled hydraulic fluid more than blood.
- some runs may have a variable payment option. Always hard to assess from the Johnson's side and runners may not trust on a fair rate, but if it is not the first time the Johnson has hired the runners you could end up with "Based on the data available, this should be fairly straightforward, and the pay is 10k each. If security is significantly tougher than projected I'll cover another 2.5k in extra danger pay."
- some runs may offer some not purely monetary rewards that happen to scale with risk sometimes -- like medical costs, or use of a spiffy new prototype weapon or armour.
- note that an odd effect of both the nuyen and karma charts is that a group that manages to come up with an incredibly clever plan to bypass most of the opposition should, in theory, get less karma and nuyen. I always figure that if they come up with something that clever, it shouldn't lower their reward. Likewise if they make it extra hard due to not thinking, I don't up the reward.
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- note that an odd effect of both the nuyen and karma charts is that a group that manages to come up with an incredibly clever plan to bypass most of the opposition should, in theory, get less karma and nuyen. I always figure that if they come up with something that clever, it shouldn't lower their reward. Likewise if they make it extra hard due to not thinking, I don't up the reward.
My approach (for the one run I've GMd so far) is to work out what I expect them to meet and have to deal with, and base the payment on that. If I up the challenge later I can give bonuses, but if they screw up and face more they don't get them, and if they do well and avoid trouble they won't get less.
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So i just found that the player going to play the samurai/get away driver has elected to go with no cyberware, and from my understanding cyberware is kind of a feature of the samurai, is this viable ? Or should I convince him to get some ?
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So i just found that the player going to play the samurai/get away driver has elected to go with no cyberware, and from my understanding cyberware is kind of a feature of the samurai, is this viable ? Or should I convince him to get some ?
Well, he wouldn’t be a samurai as most people understand it. One of the defining features of the samurai is their high initiative – they move before most other people get a chance to do anything, and hopefully pack more actions in to a given period of time. This is a real part of what makes them so deadly. Run Faster did add a quality (for 20 karma) that gives +1+1d6 to initiative, which could help a little bit, but still falls short of what a more hard-core samurai may be running.
A samurai will also typically have extra soak dice, extra strength and agility, a smark-link to their guns for more attack dice, various sense upgrades, etc.
Now, if what he wants to play is a tough guy doing his best to keep up without cyberware, that is cool – so long as he understands that he is giving himself a real disadvantage in the process. (edit to add: of course, by not spending all those resources on cyberware, he can prioritize other things, which has its own advantages -- I was just talking about advantage in actual combat)
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Although there's nothing wrong with no cyberware, it's going to put them at a disadvantage. Some cyberware, like wired reflexes, etc. are going to give the advantage to the chromed up guys.
If he's wanting 'no cyberware' then maybe he'd prefer an adept? Their powers can easily be the equivalent of cyberware.
At the end of the day, it's up to the player.
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Currently playing one right now with no implants, and he's actually doing very well.
[spoiler=No Implant 'Street Sam']
Snake
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 5, A 6, R 5, S 3, W 3, L 4, I 5, C 3, ESS 6, EDG 5
Condition Monitor (P/S): 11 / 10
Armor: 11
Limits: Physical 6, Mental 6, Social 5
Physical Initiative: 10/11+2D6
Active Skills: Armorer 4, Athletics Group 5, Blades 4, Etiquette 1, First Aid 2, Longarms (Sniper Rifles +2) 6, Perception 4, Pilot Ground Craft (Wheeled +2) 1, Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 6, Sneaking 5
Knowledge Skills: Club Music 2, Firearm Design 3, History 1, Military 4, Police Procedures 3
Languages: English N, Japanese 3, Spanish 3
Qualities: Lightning Reflexes, Phobia, Uncommon (Mild): Insects, Prejudiced, Specific (Biased): Spell Casters, Sensitive System, SINner (National SIN): CAS
Vehicles:
Harley-Davidson Scorpion [Handling 4/3, Speed 4, Accel 2, Body 8, Armor 9, Pilot 1, Sensor 2, Seats 1]
Gear:
Actioneer Business Clothes
Allen Drake w/ Fake License: Colt Govt and Ammunition (4), Fake License: Defiance T-250 and Ammunition (4), Fake License: Remington 950 and Ammunition (4), Fake SIN (4), (6 months) Middle Lifestyle
AR Gloves
Autopicker (6)
Climbing Gear
Contacts (3) w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Smartlink
Flashlight
Lined Coat w/ Chemical Protection (4), Gel Packs, Nonconductivity (5)
Medkit (6)
Rapelling Gloves
Renraku Sensei
Respirator (6)
Shop, Armorer
Subvocal Microphone
Survival Kit
Weapons:
Colt Government 2066 [Heavy Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP -1, SA, 14 (c)] w/ (70x) APDS, Laser Sight, (70x) Regular Ammo, Silencer/Suppressor, (15x) Spare Clips, (70x) Stick-n-Shock
Defiance T-250 [Shotgun, Acc 4, DV 10P, AP -1, SS/SA, 5 (m)] w/ (40x) Regular Ammo, (40x) Stick-n-Shock
Remington 950 [Sniper Rifle, Acc 9, DV 12P, AP -8, SS, 5 (m)] w/ (30x) APDS, Imaging Scope, (30x) Regular Ammo, Smartgun System, External
Survival Knife [Blade, Acc 5, DV 5P, AP -1]
Contacts:
Fixer (Connection 5, Loyalty 1)
Zack Barna (Connection 3, Loyalty 4)
[/spoiler]
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I have another question. I'm reading through combat and recoil. Is the damage from a firearm per bullet ? Do I need to roll for each bullet, or lets say I fire fully automatic using 10 bullets...is it one roll and add damage ten times ? Or is it roll 10 times ? Or am I totally missing the point here ?
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I have another question. I'm reading through combat and recoil. Is the damage from a firearm per bullet ? Do I need to roll for each bullet, or lets say I fire fully automatic using 10 bullets...is it one roll and add damage ten times ? Or is it roll 10 times ? Or am I totally missing the point here ?
This is a case where you just need to read the rules. Burst Fire and Full Auto are just penalties to their defense (the penalty is listed in the appropriate section of the combat chapter for Short Burst, Long Burst and Full Burst).
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Yeah that tipped me up for a while. Basically each bullet after the first lowers the defense roll of the target.
And before you ask about the bullets from two (or more) guns... look up the rules section, it's been discussed, quite thoroughly, already and never really been sorted out 100%.